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Running in the new year with the Dingos: January 2014

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#1 ·
It's the New Year! Time for making goals and looking ahead to healthy living in 2014!

New visitors to the Dingo Thread may ask, "but, what is a Dingo?"

Dingoes are mamas (defined loosely, when needed) who run, walk, cycle, tri, and participate in whatever sport they need to sustain their awesome mama selves in lives that are definitely dynamic. Sometimes, a Dingo is injured, or life takes a turn, and she has to take a break from her chosen sport. Whether active or aspiring, Dingoes support one another in spirit. When two Dingoes are in the same place at the same time, something incredibly special happens. This is called a Dingo Meetup. They are relatively rare, and so we try to record them with photographic evidence.

Are you a Dingo? You just might be, if:

You sometimes perform acts of brilliance in order to squeeze a workout into a busy week.

You're never ashamed of coming in at the back of the pack, even if you're used to coming in faster.

You have found yourself sincerely respecting and admiring moms in all forms, observing how they're doing it for love, and growing from their experiences as well as your own

You won't know until you try, and all comers are welcome.
 
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#228 ·
Shanti, My Finnish "sister" used to cross country ski to school in the winter. That's about how she described things. It was really the only way to get anywhere.

Very interesting about cognitive development & writing. DD's teacher is very clearly expecting analysis from DD, but I have no idea if she's expecting it from everyone. DD is ready, but at the same time, is not ready for a high school environment. We're so glad to have this LA teacher. I agree that this sort of thinking might be better developed elsewhere before requiring it in writing. I do feel as though teaching the structure of writing should be part of the very earliest writing instruction, but then again, I'm realizing more and more how *not normal* my kids are. I'm ambivalent about all writing instruction should just be tabled until later. It might be my kid's weakness, but I can see that a lot of kids are ready. Also, I am very much in agreement that a lot of writing instruction should be directly tied to reading instruction.

JayGee, if writing isn't the 7th circle of hell for your DD, look for creating writing programs for spring break and summer. She'd get to write about what she wants, and

get a significant amount of positive and constructive feedback.

MelW, you make the school stuff seem so easy! Yes, I was thinking of suggesting exactly that to make the subsequent transfer easier. It seems well reasoned, especially since it will have minimal impact on your DD.
 
#229 ·
Real - yes I'm aware that when I am
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by my dh for being less than zealous (he is the Zen/complacent one, I am the attentive/overboard one) I have to remember that having two of me in a relationship would not be fun. My two best lifelong friends are like me in that way, and while it is a great outlet and source of affinity, I can only take so much of them
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Too much is too much either way.

On the book, it has to be something sort of recent. We are supposed to submit the review, so I shouldnt really review something that's been talked about to death. Its possible I could put a composition pedagogy/policy spin on the review to make is new, but that's why I was looking at the more recent Ravitch, or at Finnish lessons, as the class is talking a lot about how to change the context of teaching/learning, so it could be interesting to extrapolate how Finland's social/political ideology could impact writing pedagogy
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On writing instruction - I think there is an ongoing back-and-forth between skills and process and that its hard to come to some hard and fast guidelines because there can be so much individual variability in students. I think earlier grades emphasize fluency over correctness because they just want the kids to get used to writing, which is itself such an abstract act, let alone having to then write about something abstract. It's true that students do not have the judgement for analysis until later (hence raising the age for driver's license - inadequate pre-frontal cortex), but not all. Especially if you move them through a curriculum that deliberately moves from concrete to abstract (have them write about something concrete and then write about that piece of writing). Fluency is obviously taught with skills, but not so much as to discourage the kid from wanting to write. Hence the skills-in-context approach, where peer review (low stakes) builds interest in the student wanting to communicate clearly to their peer, and caring if correctness is blocking this. I'm sounding like Lucy Calkins
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I tend to go heavier on the skill side, just b/c I think you can do so much more with language when you have those blocks, but I get the concern with just wanting them to write and write and write, to care about their writing, and then hopefully care that it is saying what they want to someone else...
 
#230 ·
I have some very happy teenagers at home Bcause the earliest they would have been able to start writing their exams is 10 days after the original start date the school has cancelled al semester one exams. I think that news that yet another storm mightbe heading in early next week had something to do with this!
 
#231 ·
drive by for an OMG EEEEEEEK on the snow photos. and also to comment, not necessarily related to Geo's post directly but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geofizz View Post
Very interesting about cognitive development & writing. DD's teacher is very clearly expecting analysis from DD, but I have no idea if she's expecting it from everyone. DD is ready, but at the same time, is not ready for a high school environment. We're so glad to have this LA teacher. I agree that this sort of thinking might be better developed elsewhere before requiring it in writing. I do feel as though teaching the structure of writing should be part of the very earliest writing instruction, but then again, I'm realizing more and more how *not normal* my kids are. I'm ambivalent about all writing instruction should just be tabled until later. It might be my kid's weakness, but I can see that a lot of kids are ready. Also, I am very much in agreement that a lot of writing instruction should be directly tied to reading instruction.
I think we should tie writing instruction to two different things:

1. teaching students to think and teaching students to organize those thoughts

2. teaching kids how to communicate.

Sometimes we need explicit instruction in how to do skills related to each (e.g. long division or decoding words). Some of those skills come really easily for some students, hard for others. But if we framed the instruction in the form of "I have an idea. what is the language/format i can use to communicate that idea?" as the mission of teaching math/writing/reading we might get better results. Right now I feel like a lot of it is, "You have really important ideas now go write them down." Bam. What if I don't think I have really important ideas?
 
#232 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerc View Post

I think we should tie writing instruction to two different things:
1. teaching students to think and teaching students to organize those thoughts
2. teaching kids how to communicate.

Sometimes we need explicit instruction in how to do skills related to each (e.g. long division or decoding words). Some of those skills come really easily for some students, hard for others. But if we framed the instruction in the form of "I have an idea. what is the language/format i can use to communicate that idea?" as the mission of teaching math/writing/reading we might get better results. Right now I feel like a lot of it is, "You have really important ideas now go write them down." Bam. What if I don't think I have really important ideas?
I am only familiar with teachers who do the former. Writing as a mode of developing ideas and critical thinking, writing to discover and connect, and then explain/describe
 
#233 ·
My kids have each had (and I did too) at least one teacher who's method of teaching writing was, "go, write"

Well great. If you're a perfectionist you are constantly worried about what to put down. So you get none of my thoughts because I'm too afraid to express something less than perfect. And I never have ideas for stories because I don't know how to identify where to begin telling about my life.
 
#234 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerc View Post

My kids have each had (and I did too) at least one teacher who's method of teaching writing was, "go, write"

Well great. If you're a perfectionist you are constantly worried about what to put down. So you get none of my thoughts because I'm too afraid to express something less than perfect. And I never have ideas for stories because I don't know how to identify where to begin telling about my life.
Yes, that's the K-2 writing instruction here. It slowly gets better until 6th grade, when suddenly, they're taught how to identify which ideas are worth writing and how to start. Or at least 6th graders who win the lottery of filling in the right bubbles on the psuedo-IQ test in 2nd grade.... Not sure what everyone else gets.

So frustrating.
 
#235 ·
Like Geo, I have a kid who learns differently. There's what works for "most" kids and then there's my kid. And then when I see what works for my kid, I start wondering if that would actually work for most kids. The thing is, the different modes of learning are kind of opposite. And teaching one way can kill the motivation for a kid who learns the other way. And vice versa. So if I sound at times like a contrarian, I'm going on experience with my one kid. If I sound at times more mainstream, it's based on experience with a classroom of kids. And finding a way to modify it to make my own kid's learning work makes my head feel like it's going to fall off. Which brings me to other theories I can't quite parse.

Shanti, WHOAH! That is some snow!!! Wow. It looks like a close-up photo of whipped cream with a toy village stuck in it.

Sparkle, I look forward to reading about, hearing about, following along as you work on your thesis. It's a topic that fascinates me. Especially in regard to immigrant policy, since this was the community I worked closest with.

RR:
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#237 ·
Hi mamas,

Fascinating conversation here, as usual. I haven't given any of this nearly as much thought but dd1 seems to be writing reasonably well, though I don't know if it's her instruction or just natural proclivity + voracious reader. She recently wrote a play and when I first read it I thought it was okay but not really well written. I didn't give much feedback though other than to give some brief ideas about a hole in the plot. But then it was performed and somehow it became much more powerful in performance. I wonder if she somehow was aware of how much better it would come across that way or if it was a happy accident. Anyway, here's a link if anyone is curious, it's only about 6 minutes long.

Shanti - Holy snow! That is really amazing.

BBM - So happy to see you back here in the cafe. I love all your cold weather experiments on FB too.

Gaye - Glad you followed up with a better night.

JG - Sorry to hear your mentor was such a negative influence. :(

MelW - Sounds like you've got some good plans re:school and cleaning help.

Sparkle - You are a testament to hope that you keep going to doctors who you know are less prepared than you. I seriously pray that one day soon your hope will be rewarded with a real useful connection.

RR: Boxed today until everything felt like jello.

NRR; Trying to get ahead as much as possible at work before I disappear for two weeks. This weekend is the big auditions for Annie. The excitement is pretty high and I will be relieved when it is over no matter who is cast is what roles. I will be trying out for Miss Hannigan which I know is not quite the right role for my voice but it seems like it would be more fun. We'll see. Never a dull moment in any case.
 
#238 ·
sparkle~Hmm. Not sure. Not coming up with anyone I can think of from that.

real~Cool! Do you have my address?

Reading along with the writing conversation. Writing is definitely DS's least favorite subject, and I don't blame him since I always dread it myself. Which is ironic, because I've been told throughout my academic life that I was an excellent writer. Oh well, just because you're good at something doesn't mean you have to like it, right?
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Busy, productive day around here. I met up with a friend I hadn't seen in awhile for a run this morning with lots of chatting (getting her caught up on the boy situation, of course
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)....grocery store...swim (wherein the 24 hr fitness closest to my house had their pool closed "until further notice"
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so I had to speed over to the next closest one in order to squeeze it in before DS got out of school)...picked DS up at school...dropped off recycling...target and costco...home for homework and a little wii with DS before his bedtime. Throw in a few loads of laundry and I am toast. Waiting for C to call me back, but he is taking too long, so I am probably heading to bed as soon as I finish writing this post.

rr~45 minute run with my friend. It was supposed to be at "easy aerobic pace" and I was under instructions to NOT look at my HR. How refreshing!
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And then 2600 yds in the pool. After which, my arms were screaming everytime I picked up a box of something to put it in my cart at Costco. And THEN DS made me play Just Dance on the wii, which involves a whole lot of waving your arms around in the air. Ouch. I have 2700 yds on Saturday and the thought kind of makes me want to cry right now.
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#239 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjsmama View Post

I have 2700 yds on Saturday and the thought kind of makes me want to cry right now.
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It will be ok. Actually I bet you'll feel better once this stuff is more regular. My husband skied a bunch sunday. By tuesday he told me he was ready to head out for a ski, just to loosen up. I bet you feel the same way.
 
#240 ·
My oldest works best with the "just write" instructions. Pages and pages of ordered writing appear. But if you give her a hamburger chart, expect whining and sighs. My youngest is only 4, but her writing methods to date involve LARGE LETTERS and WALLS. After I meet with the realtor tomorrow I'm calling painters for quotes. I don't have time to repaint on my own right now.

Holy snow, Shanti! Stay warm and safe!

Geo, I only make the school stuff seem easy because we're in the preliminary phases, and because I've had such a terrific blog and advice from a dingo! When we met with her teacher, his response was "of course- let's make it happen today!" which from his perspective in the classroom is easy- he's already differentiating for three grades so it's easy adjust expectations (and she already has the grade 4 resources/curriculum at home). I suggested to him that it might be *a bit* more complicated, which lead to the conversation with the vice-principal. She told us to be aware that full-grade acceleration is rare in this district, so we'll see what happens after the initial meetings. The strangest part for me is how much her height seems to factor into conversations. Everyone mentions it as it relates to her ability to "pass" for older.

Plady, congrats to C! Did she write the ads for the "manopause" product at the start, too?

I'm getting back in the RR saddle with bootcamp tomorrow evening.
 
#241 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerc View Post

Well great. If you're a perfectionist you are constantly worried about what to put down. So you get none of my thoughts because I'm too afraid to express something less than perfect.
kerc has summarized part of the reason it took me forever to write a dissertation: I was constantly worried that by putting down my ideas, I'd expose myself for the sub-par scholar I felt like.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geofizz View Post

Yes, that's the K-2 writing instruction here. It slowly gets better until 6th grade, when suddenly, they're taught how to identify which ideas are worth writing and how to start. Or at least 6th graders who win the lottery of filling in the right bubbles on the psuedo-IQ test in 2nd grade.... Not sure what everyone else gets.
They started talking about writing structure in first grade here. They've talked about elements needed for creative writing, whether telling a story (plot, characters, etc) or a descriptive piece (metaphors, similes, what kinds of words are good for description), what goes into persuasive writing (statement, reasons why, conclusion), among others. Writing's been one of the district's focuses and there's a fairly large reading and writing block that starts out the day. In first grade, they could also read or write in their journals during snack time, and I think R was always writing. (This may still be true but I haven't asked what she does when she eats her snack.) It helps that she's naturally a good writer (if atrocious speller).

But isn't the analysis you mentioned for your oldest required as part of Common Core (or at least the tests)? BTW, I'm not arguing that instruction should be tabled until later. Introducing the concepts is all good and some will be ready--but we shouldn't expect everyone to master those concepts the first time they're introduced. A spectrum of at least 2-3 years to master any number of educational goals would make a lot more sense.

tjsmama--I have your address. I'm still trying to figure out how to package it, but at least I managed to get the envelopes and pod on my desk!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelW View Post

The strangest part for me is how much her height seems to factor into conversations. Everyone mentions it as it relates to her ability to "pass" for older.
I think it makes a difference in both the social stuff (so peers perceive her as a peer and not as a younger interloper) and it's more normalizing for adults too because they don't look at her and see her as a younger student. It's an interesting question, because I don't think we'd skip R ahead a grade in part because of the height thing. Happily, that's not a concern in our district, but it's telling when people have generally thought we had a freaky talented or bright kid because they misjudged her age. My favorite story is when she was in first grade and there was the area strings festival. She and another first-grader played one song with the advanced orchestra, and afterward our music teacher had a bunch of people ask if she was a prodigy. Apparently they thought she was 4 when she was actually 7 years old. I suspect it will make your daughter's transition so much easier and preclude a lot of questions from peers.

sparkle--Ravitch's Death and Life was published in 2010. If that's too old, the newer one covers the same ground. It's grad school though, so you really should read both.
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I'd be interested to see how you frame the Finnish social/political ideology to impact writing pedagogy in the U.S. because there are so many variables there that aren't possible here. It's the fact that there are multiple variables that make the work interesting and hugely complicated, yk?

Shanti--they get snow like that in some places in the mountains. From what I can tell of Grand Lake, snowshoes and snowmobiles are the primary form of transportation around town itself. It's legal to drive a snowmobile down the street there.

It's snowing here! It was heavy, wet, slushy stuff when I drove home from the school board meeting, so I'm wondering whether we'll have school tomorrow. Also wondering whether Saturday's 9-miler will be a treadmill run. Maybe I'll mix it up between the indoor track and treadmill at the gym?
 
#242 ·
Yes to what Real said about writing instruction. The thing that flummoxes me when I hear descriptions like Kerc's is that every pedagogy book I read in my ed. grad program, and still encounter in this program 12 years later, all the conversations Ive ever had with colleagues and friends about how they teach writing talk about it with much more nuance and complexity than 'just write' My dream is to be a fly on the wall in high-school english classes, and freshman comp. classes and see what is happening and how they compare.

Real - yeah, the social-political stuff really interests me, understanding how much is different in Finland compared to here, but also that their intention is far different too! Thinking about Bourdieu's theories and how those are reflected positively in Finland and negatively here. I heard a story on NPR the other day about how Denmark generated 30% of the entire countries electricity with wind in 2013 and their goal is to get to 50% by 2020. The person they interviewed from the project said "it can be done. The only reason these things dont happen is a lack of political will". I like the bent of Finland's political will wrt education, even if they are not the perfect model of/for the US
 
#243 ·
MelW - No, the Manopause commercial was stolen goods. We wanted to find something to cover the scene change and that seemed to fit in with the theme of bullying and media and its message to everyone that they just aren't good enough but in a funnier way.

On height and class placement, Ali G being so much shorter than her peers was one factor in holding her back. We could see in class that she was being treated differently than her classmates (by her classmates) and suspected that much of it was because they perceived her to be smaller and therefore younger and less important. This year she is more or less the same height and gets more respect from her classmates and is not treated like a pet.
 
#244 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realrellim View Post

kerc has summarized part of the reason it took me forever to write a dissertation: I was constantly worried that by putting down my ideas, I'd expose myself for the sub-par scholar I felt like.
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Well. fortunately we got to the part where if I didn't defend/submit my classes would expire. Because I wrote that sucker down and defended and bam. Now on getting the paper out the door, well that's where I'm stuck at exactly what you just described.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plady View Post

On height and class placement, Ali G being so much shorter than her peers was one factor in holding her back. We could see in class that she was being treated differently than her classmates (by her classmates) and suspected that much of it was because they perceived her to be smaller and therefore younger and less important. This year she is more or less the same height and gets more respect from her classmates and is not treated like a pet.
hmm. Interesting.

I skied last night. But darn it, if I'm going to run 13.1 on May 3, I need to RUN a little. So treadmill plans in 45 mins when my office hours are over.
 
#246 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plady View Post

MelW - No, the Manopause commercial was stolen goods. We wanted to find something to cover the scene change and that seemed to fit in with the theme of bullying and media and its message to everyone that they just aren't good enough but in a funnier way.

On height and class placement, Ali G being so much shorter than her peers was one factor in holding her back. We could see in class that she was being treated differently than her classmates (by her classmates) and suspected that much of it was because they perceived her to be smaller and therefore younger and less important. This year she is more or less the same height and gets more respect from her classmates and is not treated like a pet.
Yeah and ugh. Oddly, I've had a number of students who have been surprised by how short I am when they come up to talk to me after class. Sure, they're sitting down when I teach, but demeanor makes a big difference. Unfortunately, it's so hard for kids to project that kind of self-confidence unless they're feeling it. Being respected by her classmates fosters the self-confidence and that's important in the long run. (This conversation now has me singing "She's actual size, but she seems much bigger to me" by They Might Be Giants.)

Speaking of bullying prevention, this came across my twitter feed and I think it's worth sharing: http://momastery.com/blog/2014/01/30/share-schools/
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerc View Post

Now on getting the paper out the door, well that's where I'm stuck at exactly what you just described.
Yep. I have two of those on my laptop. My excuse is that I haven't had time and a quiet space to do the work that needs to be done (true) but it's all so anxiety-provoking that I haven't put a lot of effort into getting that time either. Probably the same reason I haven't actually emailed my resume yet either. I'm not really anxious, especially compared to DH and R, but this feels like asking people to judge whether I'm worthy or should just go get a job in retail 'cause I'll never have a career in the professional world again.
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#247 ·
IIRC, Height is up to 3 points out if 80 on the IAS, where anything above 60 points is the strongest case for a skip. 20 points come from IQ and achievement. The rest are social, emotional, family, and other secondary issues. It's an evidence-based tool (though I feel based on pro-skip data), so I'd take from that that height is worth about 2-3% of the conversation.

However, I was able to squash any discussion about dd skipping based on size, so I'll use it to my advantage when necessary.

Kids respond to size as a marker of age. I stopped 2 elementary kids from harrasing a 6th grader for heading towards the wrong school this fall. My 8 year old is taller than this kid. These boys were being mean. Cruel. Yeah, the elem principal heard about it.
 
#248 ·
This talk about height is interesting. We have considered that skipping DS would likely be academically appropriate/beneficial but his social/self-control part is lagging. He's at least a head taller than his peers. People always mistake him for older (and then assume he is even more lacking in self-control). So he stays where he is and is annoyed at the lack of challenge...
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#249 ·
Interesting about height. DS is tall (5'3", 110 lbs.) for 6th grade. One of his closest friends is 1/2 his weight and about DD2''s height (she's 7). They get treated very differently, although they are exactly one day apart in age.

I scheduled a parent -teacher conference with DD1's teacher. I found it odd that she didn't request a conference with me, even though DD is currently averaging a D in math
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. At tutoring she scored at the mid-1st grade level on her assessment. She's in 4th grade, and up until this point has always had As on her report card. I'm not sure how she has slipped through the cracks, but am sorely disappointed. Glad we're doing the math tutoring at any rate.

I drove an hour to a swim meet at 6:30 this morning only to find that the meet was cancelled due to a pool filter malfunction.

RR - will walk today now that I don't have to spend the day at a swim meet!
 
#250 ·
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Kerc
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Hope that you get some time to do favorite things with favorite people today.

On height; I hope it didn't sound like that was a major reason we held Ali G back. It was really the consensus among her teachers but it was sort of the icing on the cake.
 
#251 ·
Height's a funny thing. On the hand, people think ds2 is older than he is and he does act more mature than his peers and hangs out with older kids. (My other kid falls in the less mature category.) On the other hand, when he does act his real age, he is treated as if something's wrong with him. He's 5' tall, 125 lbs in 4th grade. The school website has a picture of the elementary school kids who did UIL on their front page. I looked for ds2 and was bummed when I couldn't find him. I started trying to figure out if he was absent for some reason. Then I started zooming in and scrutinizing faces and realized was in the far back corner. In fact, he was the same height as the teacher in the opposite far back corner. The photographer put him in a teacher's position. It is weird for him to be 1-2 heads taller than his classmates and they sort of look at him like he's deformed, I think, not like it's cool but like something's wrong with him. I think this is why some really tall people may slouch. Coaches get excited when they see him on the basketball court and then they're like, omg, he can't jump. His bones are like bricks.

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Kerc

Plady, is there a video somewhere of C's play? I thought I saw a link but now I can't find it.

Real, I was thinking about posting that same blog link. I'll do it anyway. Share This With All Schools, Please
I got tears in my eyes. Freaking awesome.

JG, whatcha reading? We're almost to the end of Wonder and it is so, so good! I'm taking time off of adult books to catch up on my kiddos' books. So far, it has been great to have these long conversations about their books. It has made dinner time so much more interesting, insightful, and shows me so many good thoughts going through their head. Which helps me not be resentful that I'm behind in my adult and professional reading stacks, which includes the latest Ravitch book.

Sparkle, I'm interested in everything you say about that book & your topic. I have some pre-conceived notions about Ravitch, both positive and not positive that inform my opinion. I thought her newest book took a different stance than her previous book, but I may be wrong. And probably am. Since I haven't actually read it!

RR: watching 4 basketball games. No exercise for me. Blagh.
 
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