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#31 of 41 Old 01-16-2009, 11:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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By the way, are there creation scientists who actually say there never were any dinosaurs?

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#32 of 41 Old 01-16-2009, 11:45 PM
 
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By the way, are there creation scientists who actually say there never were any dinosaurs?
If there can be said to be "creation scientists," then yes there are, but very few. Mostly, though, they believe that carbon dating is a fraud perpetrated by the devil. If dinosaurs existed, they clearly did so in the garden of creation along with humans and all the other critters about 6000 years ago.

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#33 of 41 Old 01-17-2009, 12:42 AM
 
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Most (really all) creationists that I know understand there were dinosaurs, we just don't believe in the millions of years theory. And although I believe carbon dating is an inaccurate science (though I don't have the explanation at the tip of my tongue) we don't believe it is necessarily "of the devil" (carbon dating, that is), just flawed when it comes to such "distances" in time.

Any misspellings or grammatical errors in the above statement are intentional;
they are placed there for the amusement of those who like to point them out.
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#34 of 41 Old 01-17-2009, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think most evolutionists recognize there are limitations to carbon-dating, just as there are limitations to all measurement-methods. So they draw from as many different disciplines as they can, to get as accurate a picture as they can.

One thing the guy with the theistic evolution site mentions, is that there are many different disciplines that support Darwin's theories -- biology is just one of those disciplines.

So there's really not a reliance on just one method, or just one discipline.

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#35 of 41 Old 01-17-2009, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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One thing I don't understand, are the dire warning from many creation scientists, that if you accept Darwin's theories, it's all downhill from there, and you're going to lose your faith.

To me, God's reality is not so fragile that it can be undermined by new scientific discoveries, or new understandings of life as we know it. With this in mind, the creation-scientists' fear-mongering seems every bit as silly and stifling as the Church's persecution of Galileo for asserting that the earth was round and not flat.

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#36 of 41 Old 01-17-2009, 02:11 PM
 
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Have you ever seen "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed"?

I And I was absolutely shocked to hear the evolutionist admit that real belief in evolution will destroy your belief in a god.
Just because the man was a scientist doesn't man that he was an expert on theology or people's religious faith experiences. He sounds like a bit of a dunce to me. In fact, I think we can say, empirically, that he is wrong. Lots of people accept evolution as a very good theory and still have religious faith.

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#37 of 41 Old 01-17-2009, 03:41 PM
 
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One thing I don't understand, are the dire warning from many creation scientists, that if you accept Darwin's theories, it's all downhill from there, and you're going to lose your faith.

To me, God's reality is not so fragile that it can be undermined by new scientific discoveries, or new understandings of life as we know it. With this in mind, the creation-scientists' fear-mongering seems every bit as silly and stifling as the Church's persecution of Galileo for asserting that the earth was round and not flat.
Kudos to you, mammal_mama. This is something I've wondered about myself. Mike's sister, for example, refused to watch a 30 minute special on The History Channel because she felt that it would shake her faith. My thought was, "If my faith was so fragile that I thought 30 minutes of television would disturb it, I'd have to seriously reconsider my faith." I've always thought it was kind of sad-- if your faith is that weak, why bother with it at all? Most Christians I've encountered have not been able to explain, writing it all off as "God's will" or some such. Good for you.

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#38 of 41 Old 01-17-2009, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Over the last few years, I've been realizing how fear-based fundamentalist theology really is. And I used to get my back up when I'd hear others label my brand of Christianity "fear-based."

But when I started thinking more critically, I realized there was a real push (at least in my denomination) to get people to hold back from really exploring new ideas, literature, and various media for ourselves.

There was always the danger that we could get "deceived," and believing any kind of error was seen as a fate worse than death. Even if it seems like a small, inconsequential error, it might just be that little marble you slip on, that sends you hurtling down the cliff into hell.

I recall hearing a conversation between two women in my former church. They were both agreeing that they could always tell whether someone else was spirit-filled, because spirit-filled people were always bugged by the same movies they were. If someone couldn't see anything wrong with a particular movie these women didn't like, that just meant that other person hadn't "arrived" yet.

In contrast, evolutionists aren't saying that a belief in creation science will send you to hell -- they're just saying (I think) that it closes you off to being able to understand some things. I realize there are probably "hard-liners" on both sides of the debate. I just really, really prefer the side that at least encourages people to explore and do genuine critical thinking, without throwing the wrench in there that "you'll go to hell if you don't come to the right conclusion!"

The more I grow and age, the more I realize how impossible it is not to believe some error. We try out our various hypothesis about life, and pretty much learn from our mistakes. Or at least, that's how it seems to happen for me a lot of the time.

It's been so wonderful for me to realize that it was never God telling me I had to live in fear of exploration and making mistakes. I feel like all these years, God's been calling me out to roam in the great big world -- and here I thought some mean stable-boy was God. It's time to fire the stable-boy and worship the Lord.

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#39 of 41 Old 01-17-2009, 08:07 PM
 
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The more I grow and age, the more I realize how impossible it is not to believe some error.
I like to refer to this as, "The Human Condition."

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#40 of 41 Old 01-18-2009, 01:40 AM
 
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To me, God's reality is not so fragile that it can be undermined by new scientific discoveries, or new understandings of life as we know it.
Oh, hear, hear!

To me, evolution is just obvious. (I admit, I say this from a position of privilege, as I have had higher education, mostly in science.) Just the same, the presence of God, at least in my life, is at least as obvious as evolution.

And I can accept neither science or dogma that basically says, "What are you gonna believe, me or your lyin' eyes?"

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#41 of 41 Old 01-29-2009, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And I can accept neither science or dogma that basically says, "What are you gonna believe, me or your lyin' eyes?"
That's where I'm at, too.

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