"Faith forms a bond for a lesbian priest and a LDS father of 3" - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 15 Old 02-09-2009, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Faith forms a bond for a lesbian priest and a Mormon father of three


A friend sent me this article via email and I thought it was really awesome and inspiring. It's nice to see the other side of us Mormons in the news from time to time. :

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
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#2 of 15 Old 02-09-2009, 02:08 PM
 
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What an awesome article!! :

Momma to DS1 4/5/06 nursed with IGT to self-weaning at 27 months, DS2 1/20/09 still nursing, DS3 due late November - planning to tandem with IGT and SNS
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#3 of 15 Old 02-09-2009, 02:20 PM
 
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Nice article. Although I don't exactly see how it shows the "other" side of Mormons, since it's abundantly clear in the article that the filmmaker went against the doctrine of his church and knew it. Sure, it's great that a few individual Mormons have the courage and strength to act honorably towards gays and lesbians, even though the church declares it a sin and supported suppression of their rights through Prop 8. I wonder whether he tithes or if he puts his money where is mouth is instead?

And speaking of Prop 8, to think some good Americans believe in a SEPARATION of church and state! Good thing stuff like that doesn't seem to bother the general authorities.
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#4 of 15 Old 02-09-2009, 02:27 PM
 
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Thank you for sharing that.
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#5 of 15 Old 02-09-2009, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Moonprysm View Post
What an awesome article!! :
Hey Tiffani I didn't know you were still around MDC! I thought of you when I read it but I found I didn't have your email to forward it to you. Glad you got to see it here.

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
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#6 of 15 Old 02-09-2009, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Like all other groups of people we should be judged for our individual worth not because our higher ups said this or that- whether it be yesterday or 100 years ago. I don't judge individual Catholics for what the Pope says or does or the Spanish Inquisition. Not all Mormons are carbon copies of each other. Who really ever is?

This man not only helps other Mormons of a like mind feel not so alone and like they can speak up a little louder but he also lets others within and with out our faith see our organization for what it is- diverse. That's more helpful than I think people outside the faith could ever realize.

If we really want to change things like this we need to be more accepting of all kinds of faiths and more open. I love Mormonism. I believe it to be true. I also happen to be pro-choice and pro-gay rights. We can have both and we should be allowed both- by the "outside" and by our fellow brothers and sisters. The only way there is going to be any change- any form of progression- is if we quit expecting the religious-right to go down in flames and instead build a bridge. The best way to do that is with members who already are straddling the divide.

There just isn't room for "that's all well and good but..." because it's what it is. Now lets work with it. Let's quit the arguing and get something done.

I'm not about to give up my faith, my church organization, or my brothers and sisters for gay rights and I'm not about to give up gay rights to appease my LDS family. My point is is the issues here will not be resolved by 'picking sides'. We need to learn to embrace diversity and search for peaceful resolutions- on all sides.

Of course this is all just my opinion and my frustrations. Take them or leave them.

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
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#7 of 15 Old 02-09-2009, 03:56 PM
 
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I couldn't agree with you more Maggie! It's nice to see others within our faith who aren't afraid to seek after understanding and doing what's right even if it leaves you alone on both sides. For those of us who are told by our LDS friends that we're too liberal while at the same time told by our liberal friends that we're too mormon this is very refreshing. Thank you for this article.
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#8 of 15 Old 02-09-2009, 03:58 PM
 
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If you give money to an organization--any organization--in so doing you affirm and support their stated values. Which is why I'm so interested to know whether this filmmaker tithes. How about you? Talk is cheap. LDS support for Prop 8 isn't.

You say you believe Mormonism is true. You say you are pro-gay rights. Since LDS doctrine states that homosexuality is a sin, those statements contradict one another. Does that mean you pick and choose the pieces of Mormonism that make sense to you and leave the rest? Do you get up in front of your congregation and say so? Do you tithe in a way that ensures your money doesn't go to causes you don't believe in?
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#9 of 15 Old 02-09-2009, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You say you believe Mormonism is true. You say you are pro-gay rights. Since LDS doctrine states that homosexuality is a sin, those statements contradict one another.
No they absolutely do not. I know this has been hashed out here and elsewhere but the belief that you can't disagree with the way a person lives their life on a religious basis and still stand for the rights of that person is ridiculous and narrow. People are not going to give up their beliefs. But the point is they shouldn't have to- no more than anyone else should have to give up their rights. Saying that is no better than saying Sally has no right to marry May. Beliefs are not the issue here the issue is forcing those beliefs on others. As long as people can keep it in their churches and homes they should be allowed them. Or do you not truly believe in freedom for all?

Beyond that the LDS church's tithes go to far more than battling gay rights like my tax dollars do. I disagreed wholeheartedly with the "war on terror" but I continued to contribute to my nation. Why? Because I believe in my nation and that for all that it has done wrong in my eyes it has done good and will continue to do so. I give to the LDS church to feed the hungry and provide for those in need and to also maintain our buildings and temples. If I could pick and choose I would but I can't. And that's just it- why should I cut off my organizations nose to spite it's face when it has still done so much? As for why I tithe and not give to some other charity because I have seen with my own eyes and severed with my own hands what my tithe dollars do for those within my faith and without.

Again to make this about picking sides is to return to the 5th grade playground. As adults we need to face that sometimes things are not perfect and will not fit perfectly and neatly into the packaging of our choice. So what do we do? We work for the ideal. I will not throw my hands up in the air.

If only life were that black and white. But it's just not.

And as for do I say it in front of my congregation- yes they know where my husband and I stand. So does our Bishop.

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
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#10 of 15 Old 02-09-2009, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Robbie View Post
I couldn't agree with you more Maggie! It's nice to see others within our faith who aren't afraid to seek after understanding and doing what's right even if it leaves you alone on both sides. For those of us who are told by our LDS friends that we're too liberal while at the same time told by our liberal friends that we're too mormon this is very refreshing. Thank you for this article.
Glad you got my email!

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#11 of 15 Old 02-09-2009, 09:19 PM
 
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We think about things very differently. I pay taxes to the government because I have to. Everyone does. My citizenship is not voluntary. If I don't pay them, I'll go to jail.

A church OTOH, any church, is a voluntary organization. You have the freedom to choose whether to belong or not, and whether to give them your money or not. I feel that each dollar I spend or donate counts. Words count, but actions speak louder, and that includes donations. I feel passionately about using my money in ways that represent my values, and not in ways that don't. If that makes me a 5th grader, so be it.

I'm sure you have your reasons for giving money to the LDS church. It's not my place to question them or try to change your mind. As far as the gay rights movement is concerned, however, you're paying lip service to gay rights while helping to fund the opposition. And gosh, with allies like that... who needs enemies?
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#12 of 15 Old 02-09-2009, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yup very different opinions. And this...
Quote:
As far as the gay rights movement is concerned, however, you're paying lip service to gay rights while helping to fund the opposition. And gosh, with allies like that... who needs enemies?
...just your opinion. I will continue to move for change and understanding and won't expect the world to bend to my own opinions and beliefs because for one how would I be any better? That line of thinking is part of the problem.

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
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#13 of 15 Old 02-11-2009, 01:01 AM
 
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magstphil, thanks for posting the link to the article here, and for all the interesting comments. I like your vision of / for the Church, and I appreciate the support!

Green betty, I have been part of meetings with local, state wide and national gay rights leaders who know that I am a member in good standing in the Church and that I pay tithing. I have been welcomed by them and offered support for work in the Mormon community. In fact at a meeting a few weeks ago a leader from the Human Rights Campaign started a conversation by saying "What can we do to support you?" They simply do not share the idea that "with friends like that who needs enemies" They also don't really consider Mormons to be "the enemy" but they do want to work to foster dialogue and support progressives in the Mormon church who are willing to speak up. And they want to have honest discussion with conservatives in the church who are willing to talk.

What is interesting about the LA Times article is that the initial reactions that Duke, Susan and myself are getting suggest that even some conservatives approve of the article. A PR person from the Church sent Duke a very nice email.

-Douglas
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#14 of 15 Old 02-11-2009, 03:02 AM
 
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Maggie, thank you for posting the article; it was a beautiful story.

Douglas, thank you for joining the dialogue here and thank you for speaking up.

 Me + dh = heartbeat.gif ds (7/01), ds (11/03), ds (6/06)
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#15 of 15 Old 02-12-2009, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
Like all other groups of people we should be judged for our individual worth not because our higher ups said this or that- whether it be yesterday or 100 years ago. I don't judge individual Catholics for what the Pope says or does or the Spanish Inquisition.

.
The Spanish Inquisition was a LONG time ago. Prop 8 just happened. Therefore, those aren't comparable. (Now if you were comparing the Spanish Inquisition and the Mountain Meadows Massacre, I'd see your point.)

So yes, when you claim a particular belief system, you (collective "you") are held responsible for the outcomes of said belief system.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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