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Old 06-05-2009, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Where do they fit in? :

And the Ice Age?

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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Old 06-05-2009, 08:21 PM
 
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I think that mostly will depend on if you believe in science or bible.

Bible fundamentalists says dinos were created on the 6th day, anywhere from 4000-10000 years ago, and walked along with people. Of course that depends on if you're an old or new earth believer. I'm sure someone will give a better answer here. And other religions I'm sure have their own creation beliefs.

I can cover the science. We're studying this right now, dinosaurs lived in the Triassic, Jurassic and Cretaceous periods - from 245 to 65 million years ago. There were a few major ice ages, from very early, to snowball earth, to the ones that are talked about more that occurred after the dinosaurs. That one took place a few million years ago and ended about 10,000 years ago. Creation of the universe took place somewhere between 13.7 to 15 billion years ago, scientists know what happened right up to the big moment of the Big Bang.

Also, be careful, this could be quite controversial! I just happen to be watching, at this very moment, Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial.

- Angela
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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In Creation groups, did the Ice Age exist?

And what happened to the dinos?

Angela...thank you for your input. I really appreciate it!

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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Old 06-05-2009, 08:35 PM
 
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Again, here's my belief about the dino extinction.

The most common scientific belief is that an asteriod 6 miles long hit the earth somewhere near the Yucatan peninsula in Mexico. When scientists study the geologic rock layers, they see a layer of iridium, a rare element that in those levels often come from outer space meteors hitting the earth. They find this in localities all over the world, in the layer between the Cretaceous and the Tertiary period. That in itself would've been bad enough, but most scientists think that it triggered volcanos in India, as well as tsunamis and earthquakes everywhere. A cloud of dust covered the earth, lots of plant life died out, as a result plant-eating dinos died out, then meat-eating dinos died out and resulted in a mass extinction.

Creatures that could warm themselves by being warm blooded or by burrowing underground were able to survive, thus mammals, small birds and reptiles got through to survive today.

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Old 06-05-2009, 08:40 PM
 
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According to the bible, dinosaurs were created on day 6.

And we believe the ice age occurred after the flood, as a result of the catastrophic changes in the earths atmosphere and the temperature of the water.

You can read about both dinosaurs and ice fields in the book of Job.

Edited to add: There are several videos here http://www.answersingenesis.org/media/video/ondemand that would give you more detailed explanations of what we believe.
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh...thanks Nickey

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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Old 06-05-2009, 08:49 PM
 
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I think that mostly will depend on if you believe in science or bible.
Or both....
http://biologos.org/

Not sure how helpful that could be to you as I am not sure about your stand point but they have some great resources! HTH! :

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Old 06-05-2009, 08:51 PM
 
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I don't know if this maybe belongs on the Religious Studies forum, but there are two basic theories I've heard about all this:

1) G-d made the world with dinosaur fossils so that the world LOOKS like it's 6 billion years old, rather than 5,769 years old (I didn't pull that number out of my : I took it off the Jewish calendar hanging on my wall.)

2)"The first week was very special, and it's as though billions of years of weathering and science took place in only a week". (This explanation is kind of a compromise between #1 and #3.)

3) Each "day" of Creation isnt' a "day" the way we know it. I mean, how can there be a "day' before the sun and moon were created? You can phrase this idea in many ways- "Who knows how long days were then", or "Each day of creation wasn't really a 24 hour day, but rather an epoch, or a phase in the development of the world."


What I personally beleive, (from the book Genesis and the Big Bang) using Einstein's Theory of Relativity- the story of the world was given from G-d's point of view for the first 6 or 7 days, and then the story switched to Adam and Eve/Chava's point of view. This is a pretty advanced concept and I've struggled with how to explain it to my 13yo. I haven't yet started HSing my 7yo, and I'm not sure exactly how they presented this concept in his Jewish school.

Which theory you present to your kids depends on your own theology. You're obviously not going to present them with ideas that are contrary to your own Faith.

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Old 06-06-2009, 12:55 AM
 
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I'm also not sure this wouldn't be a better fit in the religious studies area...but anyway....

I stumbled onto some books that cover "creation" including science, but also include spiritual aspects....not specific to any religion though. They are not Christian or Jewish or Bible specific books. But someone who is looking for a way to include a spiritual aspect along with the scientific view might find them just right:

Born With a Bang: The Universe Tells Our Cosmic Story

From Lava to Life: The Universe Tells Our Earth's Story

Mammals Who Morph: The Universe Tells Our Evolution Story

all by Jennifer Morgan.

They have beautiful artwork.

I've decided for now to stick with just the scientific view, but a little later when they are a bit older I will probably use these books too, as they are a good fit for my beliefs and they are a nice way to offer them to our kids for consideration.

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Old 06-06-2009, 01:20 AM
 
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Love those books! They tackle some topics a wee bit advanced for my little 4 year old, but they're great to have.

For those that do decide to study prehistory and are comfortable with billions and millions of years, I am spending all my days researching how to teach my young ones all this, in a fun and memorable way. Just click on the History Curriculum on top of my blog and peek at our lessons.

Prehistory Curriculum

Lesson 1
Lesson 2

Next time we study prehistory (in a few more years), we'll be reading other creation stories, just so she knows what others believe as well.

- Angela
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Old 06-06-2009, 01:31 AM
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Moved from Learning at Home and Beyond to Religious Studies...

 
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Old 06-06-2009, 02:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AngelBee View Post
Creation and Dinosaurs
Where do they fit in? :
And the Ice Age?
I am not sure why they would be a problem, even with a fairly literal interpretation of Genesis. Dinosaurs are extinct animals, like the dodo. Species becoming extinct does not conflict with the idea of Creation.
As for the ice age, it was a natural phenomenon. Why does it conflict with the Biblical account of creation, any more than the eruption of Mount Vesuvius or any other natural disaster or example of extreme weather conditions?
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:01 AM
 
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I've found the best place to get resources for this is from my Synod's publishing company. Does your church have any materials?

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Old 06-06-2009, 10:13 AM
 
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Thank you so much for sharing all this ! I am rounding up resources myself, and your list will be really helpful ! Some of them I knew about, and others I didn't, and will be looking into.

I have never liked history, or understood it. A friend recently showed me the Little History, and I've been up at six the last four mornings to make sure I get time to read it....it's fabulous, a book I don't want to put down...never thought I would enjoy a history book ! IMO it's a great recommendation.

I don't know if you are interested in sci fi for kids that includes lots of information about space...but I recently read George's Secret Key to the Universe. It's a fun story by Lucy Hawking - Stephen Hawking's daughter. It even covers Hawking radiation ! I can't wait until DS1 is ready for a chapter book that long....that will be his first. The sequel to it just came out as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dotnetdiva View Post
Love those books! They tackle some topics a wee bit advanced for my little 4 year old, but they're great to have.

For those that do decide to study prehistory and are comfortable with billions and millions of years, I am spending all my days researching how to teach my young ones all this, in a fun and memorable way. Just click on the History Curriculum on top of my blog and peek at our lessons.

Prehistory Curriculum

Lesson 1
Lesson 2

Next time we study prehistory (in a few more years), we'll be reading other creation stories, just so she knows what others believe as well.

DS1 March 2003DS2 Sept 2005,
and 3 , in our happy secular
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I posted this in the homeschooling forum because that is why I am asking. I am setting up our history and science activities and not really sure where date wise and such every thing fits in. Plus I am interested in other theories.

But I am not looking from a religious aspect.

I am looking from an Educational aspect.

What are your favorite curriculums that discuss this?

From a Creationist point of view?

From an Evolutionist point of view?

(For the record.....I believe that God created the world. I also believe that the Bible and science go hand in hand. God does not lie. Any flaws in dating or science are from man NOT God. I believe there is truth presented in science even if our human interpretation of it may be flawed. Also.....there seems to be extremists in both sides that bother me. I just want to be empowered with information so that I can give justice to the presentation of such topics with my children. )

Thank you all for your input. I greatly appreciate it

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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Old 06-06-2009, 05:15 PM
 
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Thanks for starting this thread and for everyone's posts. This issue of dinosaurs is my biggest stumbling block in terms of religion. I have experienced enough strange, wonderful and scary supernatural events in my life - I can believe in scripture and God. But my mind clouds when I struggle to reconcile the Dinosaurs and the Adam & Eve story. My younger son is heavily into dinosaurs at the moment so this thread is very interesting. Thanks.
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Old 06-06-2009, 05:25 PM
 
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What are your favorite curriculums that discuss this?

From a Creationist point of view?
We are reading the Wonders of Creation series from Master Books. There are six of them. You can see them here http://www.nlpg.com/store/advanced_s...ation&x=21&y=9

I also thought Ruth Beechick's book World History Made Simple was a good one for lining up dates.

And we all enjoyed this video - http://www.godofwondersvideo.org/
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Old 06-07-2009, 04:57 AM
 
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So if dinosaurs coexisted with humans, then according to the bible they would have been brought on Noah's ark, correct? How would the already maxed over capacity ark house dinosaurs? I don't think that is even physically possible, not to mention the impossibilities of feeding them. Are dinosaurs ever even mentioned in the bible? Why would god create an entire class of animals only to allow them all to die out? Just asking some questions your kids might ask, so that you can prepare some answers.
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Old 06-07-2009, 05:31 AM
 
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We have found these useful

The Edge of Evolution by Micheal Behe

Behe also has a blog on Amazon , which is quite good

and

The Institute for Creation Research

HTH
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Old 06-07-2009, 05:43 AM
 
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So if dinosaurs coexisted with humans, then according to the bible they would have been brought on Noah's ark, correct? How would the already maxed over capacity ark house dinosaurs? I don't think that is even physically possible, not to mention the impossibilities of feeding them. Are dinosaurs ever even mentioned in the bible? Why would god create an entire class of animals only to allow them all to die out? Just asking some questions your kids might ask, so that you can prepare some answers.
Just quickly as I don't really have time to elaborate but according to what I believe

- the animals on the ark including dino's were babies

-There are over 200 references in the bible to things such as "dragons" or "giant lizard"

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml

-as someone pointed out animals go extinct all the time, just by reading through any book of legends people were inherently frighted of dragons or monsters. In England we celebrate the slaying of a dragon by St George. What if people killed them for centuries, how different would that be to people killing dodo's into extinction.

Gotta run, hope that gives a quick explanation.
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:37 PM
 
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Any misspellings or grammatical errors in the above statement are intentional;
they are placed there for the amusement of those who like to point them out.
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Old 06-07-2009, 09:43 PM
 
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How would the already maxed over capacity ark house dinosaurs? I don't think that is even physically possible, not to mention the impossibilities of feeding them.

This paper does a good job of explaining that.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...-flood-and-ark

We are talking about a boat that was large enough to hold over 500 train cars and there is no reason to believe the animals taken on board were full-grown.
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:07 AM
 
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Thanks to the PPs for linking to info on dinos living w/humans, on the ark, etc. Interesting! Not exactly what I believe but very interesting none the less.

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Originally Posted by AngelBee View Post
Also.....there seems to be extremists in both sides that bother me.
Yup!

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Old 06-08-2009, 02:17 AM
 
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This paper does a good job of explaining that.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...-flood-and-ark

We are talking about a boat that was large enough to hold over 500 train cars and there is no reason to believe the animals taken on board were full-grown.
If their were only the mere amount of "kinds" of animals on the ark, instead of all of the species we have today, then there was obviously some really super rapid evolution that happened after the ark landed. More rapid then anything that the theory of evolution would ever support.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:33 AM
 
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- the animals on the ark including dino's were babies
Even if the dino's were babies, they wouldn't fit. Do you realize how many species there are and how large some of them are? And, I mean, the T-rex's alone would have eaten Noah - baby or not. Also, if the other animals on the ark were babies, that presents all kinds of problems. Baby mammals would require more care from Noah and his family then adult mammals would. They would have to be fed milk (and where would this come from?), they would have to be held and cuddled and played with. There were 8 people on the ark caring for thousands and thousands of animals? And they were all babies which would require more work to care for? If all those people were doing was shoveling poop off the decks they would not have been able to physically keep up - let alone actually feeding the animals or themselves. In modern zoos, there are only a few hundred animals, and there are countless zoo employees and volunteers to care for them. It would have been simply impossible for 8 people to prepare food for, feed, and clean up after thousands of animals. Even if we go with the really low numbers of unspecified "kinds" (which would require extremely rapid evolution upon the ark landing), 8 people would never be able to keep up just with the animals aboard. And if we are adding dinosaurs to the mix, well, it was already an impossibility, so that just makes it seem not even like a legitimate theory.
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:56 PM
 
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If their were only the mere amount of "kinds" of animals on the ark, instead of all of the species we have today, then there was obviously some really super rapid evolution that happened after the ark landed. More rapid then anything that the theory of evolution would ever support.
This brings up a question in my mind- is evolution out period? Do Creationists believe that evolution is a possibility ever? Sorry for my ignorance

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Old 06-08-2009, 04:02 PM
 
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This brings up a question in my mind- is evolution out period? Do Creationists believe that evolution is a possibility ever? Sorry for my ignorance
We believe in micro-evolution or adaptation, changes within the kind. We don't believe one species can change into a whole different species.
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Old 06-08-2009, 05:57 PM
 
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For me, evolution and Christianity don't conflict at all because of how I view the bible. I don't think all parts of the bible were meant to be taken literally, including the creation story. (Much of the early new testament is more literal though). There are many different genres/writing forms represented in the bible, and the various creation accounts given in the bible, even though they conflict if you take them literally, have no problems being side by side if you understand the genres they are written in.

This leaves no problem following the scientific theories of the creation of the earth/universe, nor any conflicts with evolution. I still believe God created everything, and science doesn't stand in contrast to it, just explains it.

So, what I would do is find curriculm that explains the science, and do a seperate study of biblical literary forms. The bible is, IMO, accurate and truthful, but you have to understand how to find the truth in poetic and other abstract forms to understand what is being said. I take the bible very seriously, but not literally.

The science I am looking at right now (can't buy beause dh is unemployed and we are a few steps beyond broke right now) is this: http://www.pandiapress.com/real_science.htm

A good book that discusses genres is this (it is the updated version of the college textbook I had in an introductory class): http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-...4492011&sr=8-1

I purposly avoid any curriculm that includes the creation story as literal facts because, IMO, you have to twist the science to make that work, and I can't trust what is in the book if they do that.

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Old 06-08-2009, 06:21 PM
 
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I would look into anything by Ken Ham and Answers in Genesis. Also, Lee Strobel has a great book called "The Case for the Creator" which is very science heavy, but a great read if you can follow it!

Quote:
If their were only the mere amount of "kinds" of animals on the ark, instead of all of the species we have today, then there was obviously some really super rapid evolution that happened after the ark landed. More rapid then anything that the theory of evolution would ever support.
You are comparing two different kinds of evolution here - micro and macro. Micro evolution can happen on an extremely rapid basis and there is no changing from one species to another. The theory of evolution cannot support this rapid of change because it is explaining evolving from one species into a completely new species.

Quote:
There are many different genres/writing forms represented in the bible, and the various creation accounts given in the bible, even though they conflict if you take them literally, have no problems being side by side if you understand the genres they are written in.
I'm curious what genre you see Genesis as being written in, what evidence there is for saying it is written in that genre, and how one can decide with any given book of the Bible what genre it is written in. (Not trying to attack, just genuinely curious)

Quote:
This brings up a question in my mind- is evolution out period? Do Creationists believe that evolution is a possibility ever?
For some yes, for some no. Personally, it's not a possibility in my mind.

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Old 06-08-2009, 06:28 PM
 
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This paper does a good job of explaining that.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...-flood-and-ark

We are talking about a boat that was large enough to hold over 500 train cars and there is no reason to believe the animals taken on board were full-grown.
A lower than conservative guess is that there were 1500 genera http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketsci...were_there.php

gives you three genera per train car. Six dinosaurs. That's assuming you have rapid evolution after the flood and before fossilisation to account for the multiple species per genus.

And then you have to fit the non-dino extant and extinct animals in as well, somewhere.
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