Is The Catholic Church the church that Jesus Founded? Is it the only path to salvation? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 41 Old 07-08-2009, 06:54 PM
 
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That's what I was getting at. It's not a matter of "hey, they changed the design of the robes"; it has to do with its identity, what it considers core elements (the anathemas and dogmas are a good clue to this), the Biblical data on the nature and function of the church and, of course, the presuppositional aspect.

Doctrinal development is certainly present in every denomination, and isn't a problem per se; but it needs to be clearly recognised as such with an honest assessment of previous believers' beliefs, not co-opting or twisting their beliefs to anachronistically fit the mould or making them more Catholic (or Reformed Baptist, or Lutheran, or whatever) than they were. And where early believers believed things that were clearly at odds with modern Catholicism, and where Tradition is considered sacred, those differences of belief need to be clearly dealt with and not brushed aside as heresy. I'm not saying all Catholic scholars make this mistake, but I've come across it in a number of Catholic works (and by talking to Catholics, including my FIL): an emphasis on unity and continuity which is simply not supported by the historical data.

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#32 of 41 Old 07-13-2009, 10:57 PM
 
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Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#33 of 41 Old 07-14-2009, 09:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by EFmom View Post
I think you would do well to read widely on these topics, from both the Catholic and the non-Catholic perspective, because the answers are going to vary hugely. Only you are going to be able to decide the answers to your questions based on the scholarly evidence.
PM me if you want some good Catholic teaching resources that debunk the questions in your OP.


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... it is so simple. Its not thru the church that anyone is saved. Its only thru Christ.
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Originally Posted by shanniesue2 View Post
The Catholic Church is not the only way to salvation. There is Truth found in other churches/denominations, but the Catholic Church is the only church in which you can find the fullness of Truth (the whole truth).
And the above is the Church's current official position.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#34 of 41 Old 07-20-2009, 01:49 AM
 
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salvation is not attained by belonging to a certain type of church, but through a relationship with the living God through Christ Jesus. It's not about what church is right or stems back to peter or even Jesus. The point is Jesus is alive today and you can have a relationship with him here and now.
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#35 of 41 Old 07-20-2009, 12:34 PM
 
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unfortunatly a lot of churches are preaching a false Jesus. thats why belonging to a church with sound doctrine and right worship is important. I believe Christ is is big enough to save all for any reason on any path but having a relationship with HIM means knowing the real Him and that is a lot easier in the right church. The Bible warns against false teachers and those who are wise in their own eyes.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#36 of 41 Old 07-20-2009, 04:36 PM
 
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my point is that you don't get saved by attending a specific church. Belonging to the right church won't bring you salvation. Relationship with God will.
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#37 of 41 Old 07-20-2009, 08:50 PM
 
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my point is that you don't get saved by attending a specific church. Belonging to the right church won't bring you salvation. Relationship with God will.
I can understand this belief, but it all depends on what you or your denomination believe the Church to be. For some, saying "It is not the Church which saves you, it is Jesus Christ" is kind of like saying, "You are not saved by Salvation, you are saved by Jesus." Some of us believe the Church is Christ's way of maintaining a relationship with us, and part of the means of salvation, or at least the most direct means.
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#38 of 41 Old 07-21-2009, 02:52 PM
 
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think of the church as a map. a map will help you get where you are going. you want the true map though. the one that won't fail you. just because you set off without a map or with a faulty map you still might make it. just because you have a good easy clear map you still might get lost. but how much better to have a good and true and accurate easy to follow map.

The True Church has a good easy to follow map. Some churches have maps with odd wonky directions but they will likely get you there. some church have maps that will lead you completely in the wrong direction and be more of an obsticle. some people choose to skip church and forgo the map altogether. its your choice and God can get you where he wants you regardless of the directions you choose. but the only True Map is found with the True Church (which I believe is the Orthodox Church....not the Roman Catholic church.....)

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#39 of 41 Old 08-08-2009, 07:19 PM
 
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Great discussion!

Smokering- Catholics believe that the institution of the priesthood IS in Bible in the Gospels. In fact, the Church has biblical references for Her Marian beliefs and the Papacy as well.

Just thought I would throw that in.

Corrie, "trad" Catholic, wife to DH and Mom to DD (4/07), DS (2/09), DD (2/11), DD (4/13), two angel babies. 
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#40 of 41 Old 08-08-2009, 09:58 PM
 
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I'm aware of that, although I obviously disagree with the interpretations (otherwise, well, I'd be Catholic!). In order to examine the legitimacy of those interpretations the OP would need to be aware of when and why those interpretations were formulated and according to what presuppositions: just as she would for any other interpretations (ie. Protestant or Orthodox ones). Catholic and Protestant interpretations of Scripture come from very different presuppositions, as Catholics take Tradition as axiomatic: which colours the resulting theologies to a tremendous degree.

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#41 of 41 Old 08-11-2009, 12:57 PM
 
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The Bible says 'All Have Sinned and Fall Short of the Glory of God' which to mean means we are all equal. Therefore, I don't believe in the Hiearchy in the Catholic Church, and I prefer to have a Pastor than a Priest. It is SOOOOO different, IMO.

Also I love the Catholic Church's teachings on the Sanctity of Life, but IMO they have made a HUGE doctrinal mistake lately when they said that just because a vax has fetal cells in it, it is still a-ok. Wrong! It alienated a lot of Catholics and former Catholics.

Plus this is a minor thing but because priests are not allowed to get Married, there is no 'pastor's wife' serving that social function within the Chruch, so yk, I grew up Catholic and could count on one hand the number of people I socialized with around my church. To say my experience in Protestant Church has been different would be a total understatment!
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