Has anyone seen the movie Expelled: No Intellegence Allowed? - Mothering Forums

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Old 11-15-2009, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I watched it this weekend and found it very enlightening. Its about the Intellegent Design debate in America. Was wondering if anyone else had seen it and what they thought about it. Directed by Ben Stein. Very interesting documentary.
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Old 11-15-2009, 12:00 PM
 
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No, but I've been planning on it. I adhere to theistic evolution, but I'm still interested in seeing it
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Old 11-15-2009, 12:03 PM
 
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Saw it when it came out and loved it!

The thing that blows my mind is that some people who do not believe that God created the world actually find it easier to believe the possiblity that ALIENS started life here, or that "magic" crystals are responsible for our being here. Crazy!

I also find it nuts that they are teaching evolution as fact, when it is not fact at this point. Yes, things evolve over time- that happens naturally. But the evolution theory- man evolving from something totally non-human- still cannot be proved.

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Old 11-15-2009, 05:37 PM
 
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I thought it was rather long on manipulation and short on substance, personally. Though Ben Stein has been pushing the "science leads to gas chambers, god leads away from them" bit for a while, so I can't say I was surprised.
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Old 11-15-2009, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Im going to watch it again Liquesce to see what you mean. Sometimes when you watch something again you pick up things you missed the first time around. I was curious what you meant by long on manipulation and short on substance. What kind of substance do you think is missing? I know what you mean, tho, bc there are times when Im watching something and Im like 'I need a bit more'.

cagnew, yeah to everything you said. Yeah.
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Old 11-16-2009, 04:07 PM
 
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I thought it was rather long on manipulation and short on substance, personally. Though Ben Stein has been pushing the "science leads to gas chambers, god leads away from them" bit for a while, so I can't say I was surprised.
I so agree with you. Have you seen this set of videos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmUGJ3Jh7fc
Around minute 6 or so ... the arguments get very interesting.
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Old 11-16-2009, 04:22 PM
 
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I so agree with you. Have you seen this set of videos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmUGJ3Jh7fc
Around minute 6 or so ... the arguments get very interesting.
That was interesting. Have you seen these recent episodes of NOVA? Good stuff.

I'd like to see the movie in the OP, too. Off to check Netflix...
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Old 11-16-2009, 04:26 PM
 
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That was interesting. Have you seen these recent episodes of NOVA? Good stuff.

I'd like to see the movie in the OP, too. Off to check Netflix...
Yes, I watched these. I highly recommend them as well.
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:07 PM
 
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saw it. loved it. even if you don't agree or think it's bias. This stuff DOES go on. We had a friend that was a victim to this in the science/academic world first hand. So it does happen.

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Old 11-16-2009, 06:15 PM
 
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saw it. loved it. even if you don't agree or think it's bias. This stuff DOES go on. We had a friend that was a victim to this in the science/academic world first hand. So it does happen.
I don't agree that this stuff goes on. There is no witch hunt against scientists who may believe in "intelligent design". America is an xtian place...as those of us who aren't can tell you... we've suffered mightily sometimes for daring to be non xtian.
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:38 PM
 
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I don't agree that this stuff goes on. There is no witch hunt against scientists who may believe in "intelligent design". America is an xtian place...as those of us who aren't can tell you... we've suffered mightily sometimes for daring to be non xtian.
That is very true, I am atheist myself, but the scientific community is not so heavily christian; many are nonbelievers. Higher than in the gen. pop. So it's possible...
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:34 AM
 
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I don't agree that this stuff goes on. There is no witch hunt against scientists who may believe in "intelligent design". America is an xtian place...as those of us who aren't can tell you... we've suffered mightily sometimes for daring to be non xtian.
America IS NOT a christian place. But i'm not getting into that in this thread. I'm sorry but we have first hand accounts of this. So either you can believe it or not. But it does happen. I'm not saying it's wide spread but it does happen.

Well the movie wouldn't t-off people if it didn't have some evidence of truth.

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Old 11-17-2009, 02:00 PM
 
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I just started watching it, and I agree the movie is very long on manipulation. The first few scenes alone were enough to show that. I'm not sure I can watch any more of it because I have other things I need to do and don't think I can spend my time on a piece of propaganda. Are there any other sources for the arguments made in the movie that aren't so propaganda-ish?
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:10 PM
 
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Well the movie wouldn't t-off people if it didn't have some evidence of truth.
It didn't tick me off at all. I'm interested in how people present their facts, opinions and arguments. I was on debate team in high school. I thought it was big on fanfare and manipulation and short on facts.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:20 PM
 
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America IS NOT a christian place. But i'm not getting into that in this thread. I'm sorry but we have first hand accounts of this. So either you can believe it or not. But it does happen. I'm not saying it's wide spread but it does happen.

Well the movie wouldn't t-off people if it didn't have some evidence of truth.
I'd love to hear how you can say America is not a christian place....maybe another thread would be a good idea.

My problem with the movie is that it really feels like a piece of propaganda. The way the black and white clips are inserted to make certain points...I just feel like it's insulting my intelligence.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:40 PM
 
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I know one of the professors in the movie personally and can attest to the persecution he faced because of his views. I think it's a very interesting movie. Propaganda? Maybe...but what movie with this kind of message from either side doesn't use propaganda techniques?

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Old 11-17-2009, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Propaganda? Maybe...but what movie with this kind of message from either side doesn't use propaganda techniques?
absolutley. Every single documentary uses some kind of propaganda, imho. And to be honest I wouldnt call it propaganda, emotive maybe, but I see a lot more propaganda, brainwashing, and manipulation in the secular world that we dont even realise we are all swallowing.
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:37 PM
 
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I watched up until the last 20 minutes or so. There were some interesting points made, but I feel like the points would have been made better if the movie didn't have that propaganda feel to it. It was just too much, you know? I didn't like the way it was playing to my emotions...that automatically made me skeptical of their message and left me wanting more substance.

That said, I do believe that science and the mysteries of where life came from will eventually meet somewhere - I'm not an atheist, but I'm also not a believer in the biblical story of creation.
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Old 11-17-2009, 06:05 PM
 
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I haven't seen the movie, but would recommend checking out expelledexposed.com.
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Old 11-17-2009, 08:02 PM
 
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I second the idea of exploring the expelledexposed.com website. There is a lot of information, separating fact from fiction, on the scientists featured in the documentary.

I am not immersed enough in the scientific world to personally attest to any persecution of scientists researching or advocating intelligent design but I can imagine it would be difficult to hold these views in the scientific community. However, there are a LOT of half-truths and false implications and outright fiction in the documentary and it troubles me that many of these things go unquestioned by viewers. Before I get flamed let me add that I don't think false representations are uniquely made by the religious - in no way am I suggesting that or trying to offend anyone.
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Old 11-17-2009, 08:53 PM
 
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I glanced over the website recommended by the last couple posters; specifically at the page about the professor I know. I would have to say that the analysis is very one-sided and there are many areas of his persecution that have been left out. I know a lot about his case personally as my husband (who was in law school at the time) did some clerking work for the attorney who represented him and I attended a University near ISU where he came to speak. The persecution by the professors even at my university where he wasn't even a professor was intense! I ended up writing several letters to the editor concerning it and the high level of unprofessional conduct I observed in regards to him.

I don't doubt that the movie may over emphasize some things. I don't doubt that it is trying to get the viewer to agree with it using propaganda messages. But I also don't have a doubt in my mind that professors around the country experience academic persecution for having a view that is outside the generally accepted view.

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Old 11-17-2009, 09:03 PM
 
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I haven't seen the movie, but would recommend checking out expelledexposed.com.
Thank you.
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Old 11-17-2009, 09:11 PM
 
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But I also don't have a doubt in my mind that professors around the country experience academic persecution for having a view that is outside the generally accepted view.
Evie, I agree with you on this point. Sadly, I think this kind of persecution is displayed in many areas, not just in science and religion.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:27 AM
 
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Saw it. Thought it was hilarious.

There is no science in intelligent design, and it absolutely baffles my mind when people try to treat it as a scientific topic. Its a religious concept that people try to disguise as a scientific one. The movie lost me immediately when they played that card. Please, go study religion, philosophy, and the humanities. Fantastic. Teach at a religious school even: no problems there. Leave science and the scientific method to actual scientific concepts please. This documentary just reinforced my beliefs in that.

Intelligent design isn't suppressed ruthlessly by scientists, it full stop does not hold up to the scientific method, thus it is easily dismissed. Its not a conspiracy, and speaking as an anthropologist in academia, its laughable. I have plenty of other things to do, like teaching students what a theory actually is, then to join in a vast conspiracy to suppress intelligent design "academics." There are tons of religious scientists the film choose to ignore, the idea of science vs. religion is baloney.

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But I also don't have a doubt in my mind that professors around the country experience academic persecution for having a view that is outside the generally accepted view.
I agree, but probably not for the same reasons. Claiming you are being persecuted for believing in intelligent design is like being outraged that a history professor taught that the Holocaust never happened and then filmed a documentary about evil historians perpetuating the myth of the Holocaust. Its that absurd of a concept. Believing in intelligent design is not just outside the generally accepted view of academia, its galaxies away. Light years. Its like applying for a job teaching about Christian beliefs in a Christian school, and then spending your entire career writing about your own atheism.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:38 AM
 
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As to the "suppression/repression/persecution" argument...

Isn't it possible that the religious are suppressing/repressing/persecuting secularists, and that secularists are doing the same to the religious? I can think of examples in both directions.

It's not always a cut-and-dry, one-way persecution.

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Old 11-18-2009, 02:37 AM
 
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Intelligent design isn't suppressed ruthlessly by scientists, it full stop does not hold up to the scientific method, thus it is easily dismissed.


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Isn't it possible that the religious are suppressing/repressing/persecuting secularists, and that secularists are doing the same to the religious? I can think of examples in both directions.
I can think of examples both ways as well....I think a thread on this topic would be interesting and might give the entire spectrum more understanding of each other.
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I can think of examples both ways as well....I think a thread on this topic would be interesting and might give the entire spectrum more understanding of each other.
I was just thinking about this actually. I was interested in how nonchristians feel about them being ostracised by christians and what examples they had of personal experiences.

I also was kind of thinking about opening the ID as a science debate here. I personally do believe science and ID go hand in hand. It all depends on ones worldview, what coloured glasses one is wearing.

Alas, I dont think Im brave enough to see a debate like that thru tho, lol.
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:01 AM
 
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So what is the ID science? I must have missed it in the movie if they presented any scientific evidence for ID.

I'm not buying the movie's claim that there's a vast conspiracy to suppress ID science. I think that the majority of people would love to see some real scientific evidence of a higher power - that would be so amazing that I can't imagine even an atheist who wouldn't be fascinated with the discovery.
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:57 AM
 
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I was just thinking about this actually. I was interested in how nonchristians feel about them being ostracised by christians and what examples they had of personal experiences.

I also was kind of thinking about opening the ID as a science debate here. I personally do believe science and ID go hand in hand. It all depends on ones worldview, what coloured glasses one is wearing.

Alas, I dont think Im brave enough to see a debate like that thru tho, lol.
This is it, really. If you believe the Bible is true literally, then I could see how you could try to make science back it up. And if you don't believe it, then it's very easy to see that science does not support the creation story in the Bible.

I can see what mainstream science has found and apply it to my own spiritual beliefs, too, and there is no disconnect at all. The more science discovers, the more my own beliefs make sense to me. You don't have to be an atheist to accept mainstream scientific theories and accepted facts. There are many, many highly spiritual people who feel there is no big struggle between science and religion.

But if your worldview is that the Biblical story of creation is literally true, then yeah, there's a huge disconnect there and thus a major conflict. So are there any ID people who are not coming from the worldview that the Bible is literally true?
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The more science discovers, the more my own beliefs make sense to me
Purplesage I say the same thing. Two people looking at the same evidence and seeing two completely different things. The geologic column, for example, looks to me like rock layers laid down by a major catastrophic worldwide flood. But a secular scientist or the average joe on the street sees evolution. I dont believe evolution in the sense that one creature evolves into something completely different. I never have altho I did struggle with the 'millions of years' stuff we're force fed in mainstream media and education. I dont anymore tho. I dont believe we can be certain that the earth IS millions of years old and the universe billions of years old. I dont believe there is evidence to support it, or I dont see it. Yet I look at the same evidence everyone else does. I dont believe the human race or any other creature started off as single celled organisms in a primordial ooze. I dont even believe in the big bang as secular scientists would have us believe it. I do believe it happened exactly the way Genesis says it did.

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So are there any ID people who are not coming from the worldview that the Bible is literally true?
There are LOTS of them. I even found a muslim site that denies evolultion. I didnt look at it in depth but they were definately ID and there are jewish ID'ers, people from all over the spectrum who are believe in Intellegent Design. Even agnostics who will say that life as we know it couldnt have come from nothing and that an intellegent designer had to be involved. Im not one of them. I do believe the Genesis account of creation is 100% accurate and a literal account of how things went down.
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