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#1 of 220 Old 12-19-2009, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I know that NFP and only for good reasons is all that is permissible by the Church, but I know that a lot of catholics use birth control. I was just reading on another thread here that your own conscience plays a big role in deciding that. As of right now I am under the impression that if you are using anything but NFP that you are committing a mortal sin. It seems to me that the catholics who use other contraceptives would have to confess that every week before receiving the Eucharist. And then I am under the impression that when you confess your sins that you must be truly sorry and try not to commit that sin anymore.

I'm in RCIA but there are no female leaders in the group and I don't want to bring it up there. A this time dh and I do not want any more children and we are struggling with accepting NFP, in fact after talking about it with dh I just don't think it would ever work for us at all. I appreciate any clarification on this issue. Thanks!
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#2 of 220 Old 12-19-2009, 12:00 PM
 
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I know that NFP and only for good reasons is all that is permissible by the Church, but I know that a lot of catholics use birth control. I was just reading on another thread here that your own conscience plays a big role in deciding that. As of right now I am under the impression that if you are using anything but NFP that you are committing a mortal sin. It seems to me that the catholics who use other contraceptives would have to confess that every week before receiving the Eucharist. And then I am under the impression that when you confess your sins that you must be truly sorry and try not to commit that sin anymore.

I'm in RCIA but there are no female leaders in the group and I don't want to bring it up there. A this time dh and I do not want any more children and we are struggling with accepting NFP, in fact after talking about it with dh I just don't think it would ever work for us at all. I appreciate any clarification on this issue. Thanks!
ABC of any kind (including condoms) are a mortal sin. And yes, they would have to confess their use of such things before being able to receive Our Lord in the Eucharist, but they would also have to cease such behaviours.
I found a blog post that had some good questions and answers that may help you and your husband regarding NFP.
You may also find this blog helpful and interesting! And if you are on FB, there is a rather large NFP group that has a lot of good resources and an active discussion board!

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#3 of 220 Old 12-19-2009, 07:43 PM
 
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You do have the basic understanding correct. You would have to stop using artificial birth control if you were confessing it - confessing over and over without changing the situation just doesn't count as a valid confession.

I would recommend you *really really really* having a meeting between you, your husband and a good priest. It is possible to even use NFP in a way as to commit a mortal sin when you prevent conception for selfish or materialistic reasons. A priest can tell you exactly the how's and why's for your situation and what should be done.

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#4 of 220 Old 12-19-2009, 07:47 PM
 
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You do have the basic understanding correct. You would have to stop using artificial birth control if you were confessing it - confessing over and over without changing the situation just doesn't count as a valid confession.

I would recommend you *really really really* having a meeting between you, your husband and a good priest. It is possible to even use NFP in a way as to commit a mortal sin when you prevent conception for selfish or materialistic reasons. A priest can tell you exactly the how's and why's for your situation and what should be done.
But don't forget that observing your fertility signs is helpful in taking care of your health overall. NFP is also used to achieve pregnancy, not just postpone it.

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#5 of 220 Old 12-19-2009, 11:05 PM
 
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I was just reading on another thread here that your own conscience plays a big role in deciding that.
I'm the one that said that. You will find many different opinions on this from the laity and from priests. I don't know that any of us are wrong. I hope you won't get hung up on this issue. There is so much about the CC that is so valuable and wonderful. Please find a priest to talk to about this and your reservations about this.

My experience has been that my priest and I discussed this during RECONCILIATION and I was told that I was not committing a sin because I was choosing through my conscience to protect my health and family by choosing BC. I don't have to relate to anyone what I discuss during confession, but I don't want to see someone get turned off on the church by this. I again suggest that you discuss this with a priest you trust or work hard at finding one of those.

I also learned that anger is not a sin during this same confession, only when it hardens into hatred or bitterness. It was a lovely day for me I must confess, pun intended. I was feeling terribly guilty about my anger and frustration about dd who was 3ish at the time AND the fact that I use bc because I believe that more children would be very damaging to myself and my family. I am open to having more children if it happens . I could in good conscience say that I will welcome a child if my methods fail, but that is it.

Several other examples I know of are friends that had a vasectomy because of the mother's health and repeated miscarriages. They consulted their priest before doing so and had his blessing. Many priests don't want a mother to die or be mentally unfit just to satisfy this rule.

And another one of my priests told me the story about his parents practicing birth control after their 5 kid with no money. This was in the 50s/60s. The parents confessed this and the priest said nothing to the father and gave the mother a hard time and penance. they compared notes and the father went back to the priest and stuck up for his wife. My priest was sure proud of his father for that. This story came up in the same conversation when I was talking about my friend who went to confession and was given a hard time about not having a laundry list of sins even though the current practice is against this. As I said before, my priests said to have her come to them for confession. And I don't go to a liberal church.

I would love to say that my parents should have practiced BC, but then I wouldn't be here as I'm # 8 . They did start after I was born when my mother was 46 years old.

I am certain that Jesus is much more interested in how i treat others and respond to the promptings of the spirit in my life than in my birth control. As far as sex goes, I believe He is also more interested in being invited to be a part of our sacred love than in the bc. My sin comes when I am thinking more about myself and my pleasure than my husband's. For my sins I count on His mercy more than anything else in this world and the next except for HIS Love. (see St. faustine Kowalska for info on Divine Mercy)

good luck and pm me if you need anything.
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#6 of 220 Old 12-20-2009, 12:03 AM
 
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nfp is tough. DH and i started using it ... gosh, 7 years ago? wow, i didn't realize it had been that long! we haven't always used it though--when i really COULDN'T get pregnant, i just didn't trust it enough. but birth control in general is difficult, you know? NOTHING is perfect. you make so many trade-offs with each choice (side effects, effectiveness, permanency), and i do feel that NFP offers something that other methods don't; it teaches you to look at your sexuality and sexual relationship with a new dimension. there is just something that feels deeper and more right about NFP that makes me feel like i can't entirely let go of it. the compromise that DH and i have reached (for the moment at least, it seems like this can change at any time) is that we use FAM (fertility awareness method) with backup (withdrawl). i like charting my cycles and keeping hormonal birth control out of my body. i like that if we were to change our minds about trying to avoid, we could make that change instantly. i also believe that ultimately, it's a matter between DH, myself, and God, so even though i don't feel like we're making a perfect choice, i don't feel like we're sinning.

what is it about NFP that makes you say you don't think it would ever work for you? are your cycles really crazy? do you just really NOT want more kids ever and can't see it working for 10 or 20 years? you don't have to answer my questions of course!

another thing i want to say is that to me, NFP doesn't necessarily mean having a lot of children. i know all of the NFP materials say this, but then they also say things like, 'most couples can't practice NFP truthfully and have less than 4 or 5 kids.' i think that's total bunk. i absolutely believe that having 1 or 2 kids is just as legitimate as having 10. it irritates me to no end to read that the size of your family is up to you and God to determine together, and then to have some guy say how big it probably "should" be.

i hope this helps somewhat, disjointed as it is! my final piece of advice is that you should pray about it. i think if you pray honestly and openly then you can't go wrong. God's not going to guilt you into NFP, you know? if it's what's really right for you, He'll make it so that it's what you want to do. for me, the conversation with God is an ongoing process, but i feel a peace with where we are right now.
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#7 of 220 Old 12-20-2009, 01:45 AM
 
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One of the reasons that the Church teaches birth control is immoral is because many forms of it (all... with the exception of condoms and withdrawing) are abortifacients. It is very possible to conceive on birth control, and then have the medications actually prevent the fertilized egg from implanting, or kill the egg. Even if the odds are small, they are still there.

Another reason using ABC is wrong is because it shows a lack of faith and trust in God. It says to God "I know better." Remember, no life is conceived without God instilling the soul into it. If He wants you to have a child, He gives it to you. By blocking this and telling Him "no" you deny His will. He knows your financial situation, your mental situation, etc. He also knows what is best for you- and what is best isn't always what WE think is best. We are to trust that He is in control and surrender.

Personally, I don't understand using NFP to avoid pregnancy. That still seems to say "no" to God since you prohibit a child coming into being by not having sex. I don't know how to reconcile that.... Any thoughts?

The Catholic Church is very clear that any means of ABC is strictly considered a mortal sin. There is no "conscience clause." Any priest that says there is very clearly out of line with Church teachings. Heck, you can find a priest to justify anything if you look hard enough. Furthermore, any woman taking ABC for "health reasons" must refrain from having sex while on the medication due to the abortifacient issue. I realize this seems cruel and legalistic, but, as with everything in the Church, there are very good and loving reasons behind it.

One other thought- think of what you do everytime you bring another child into the world- even if you lose it through miscarriage (I have had 2 m/c). You and your spouse participate with God Almighty to bring into being a brand new soul. This soul has the ability to live in heaven for all eternity. Every child you have is another child that can experience the beauty and love of God, and unimaginable joy of heaven. Plus, by saying yes to God and allowing more life to be created, you give to God another soul to worship Him. If we love God and strive to serve Him above all else, and we want to please Him above all else, then what better way then to create yet another soul to do the same? It's amazing and awesome to contemplate! So, if you suffer as a result of getting pregnant, how does can that possibly compare to the ultimate outcome of another soul being created? This life is only a "blink of an eye" and we are to be heaven-minded and eternity-minded people- in the world, but not of it. Suffering we endure here has its purpose and, if we choose to offer it to God, is never wasted. That is one of the beautiful things about the Catholic faith- we believe in redemptive suffering. For us, all suffering is a way to come closer to God and to pray for others- it is never pointless or useless. People who do not believe in this still endure suffering, but it's without purpose and is therefore, sadly, nothing more than pain to them.

I'm sorry for the tangent. I just love being Catholic, and the more I learn, the more I am not disappointed. Congrats on your journey. I understand struggling with the BC issue. Just pray that the Holy Spirit would live in you and your husband, and would change your hearts if it is God's will to do so. God will not disappoint you!

Merry Christmas!!!!

Corrie, "trad" Catholic, wife to DH and Mom to DD (4/07), DS (2/09), DD (2/11), DD (4/13), two angel babies. 
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#8 of 220 Old 12-20-2009, 06:21 PM
 
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I will not be having any more children after this next baby unless something accidental happens and in that case, I will accept the child lovingly of course. I have been sick since July and honestly cannot handle another pregnancy. I also have had 3 emotionally painful miscarriages (one that landed me in the ER) I don't take the view that God is literally keeping track of all the minutae of my life and then literally sending me a baby when it seems appropriate.
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#9 of 220 Old 12-20-2009, 06:32 PM
 
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The personal conscience bit applies to the couple deciding whether they should use NFP to avoid conception or not. The Catholic Church does not allow for the use of artificial birth control to prevent conception.

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#10 of 220 Old 12-20-2009, 08:50 PM
 
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I will say again to discuss this with a priest because it is easy for all of us to be misinformed, priests as well as laity.

The priest who told me about the well developed conscience during confession is an extremely humble, dare I say holy, wonderful man who has been a leader in his order and a priest for 50 years. He did not say it applied to only NFP. He is one of the first priests I have really loved since my childhood priest. I will be talking about this with him again when I get healthy as well as the other priest I like at our church. Finding a priest with whom you connect and can talk about anything is so valuable.
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#11 of 220 Old 12-20-2009, 09:07 PM
 
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I will say again to discuss this with a priest because it is easy for all of us to be misinformed, priests as well as laity.

The priest who told me about the well developed conscience during confession is an extremely humble, dare I say holy, wonderful man who has been a leader in his order and a priest for 50 years. He did not say it applied to only NFP. He is one of the first priests I have really loved since my childhood priest. I will be talking about this with him again when I get healthy as well as the other priest I like at our church. Finding a priest with whom you connect and can talk about anything is so valuable.
I'm sorry, but your priest is just wrong. There are any number of documents from the Vatican that are quite clear on this, not to mention the CCC which is easy to use. Here is a brief summary of what the CC says. I'll quote the ending paragraph"
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Ignoring the mountain of evidence, some maintain that the Church considers the use of contraception a matter for each married couple to decide according to their "individual conscience." Yet, nothing could be further from the truth. The Church has always maintained the historic Christian teaching that deliberate acts of contraception are always gravely sinful, which means that it is mortally sinful if done with full knowledge and deliberate consent (CCC 1857). This teaching cannot be changed and has been taught by the Church infallibly.
An individual priest is not empowered to make decisions about this.

There are occasions when the use of some procedures/drugs are allowed for purposes other than contraception, but that is not really the same issue.

Unfortunately it is unlikely that your priest is just unaware of this. I would be inclined to ask him some pointed questions

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#12 of 220 Old 12-21-2009, 02:55 AM
 
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According to Catholic Church teaching any use of artificial birth control is wrong.
Take a NFP class, educate your self on the different methods and you will find that it is indeed "for you".

Any Priest that tells you ABC is okay is not in line with the teachings of the Church.

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#13 of 220 Old 12-21-2009, 10:57 AM
 
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I almost hate to post this because I don't want to get in an argument about this, but it has been on my mind and heart. If it is combative, please accept my apologies. I have been going back and forth about answering or not.

We are given priests to guide us.

Also, I was just reading about Pope Paul IV and how the Humanae Vitae was unprecedentedly rejected by theologian and the church prelates. I will continue reading about this and studying and talking to my priests.

And we all know what Jesus had to say about legalism 2000 years ago.

We are not talking about premarital sex and generalities. We are talking about women who know their limits. Our mission in marriage is to love our spouses and families into heaven. That presupposes that we have to be healthy enough to do so. Repeated miscarriages, permanent damage to our physical health and mental health issues damage that mission. To guilt someone into children who doesn't believe in their heart they can do it or are told by their dr. they can't is just wrong. God doesn't need more baby souls to worship him. He needs us healthy to care for the family he gave us. I am a strong believer in redemptive suffering, but not that we go out and harm ourselves on purpose and offer it to Jesus.

It's hard enough to make our marriage a continually sacramental passionate representation of God's love for His Church. We can't do that if we are suffering under the issue of BC and guilt.

I'll believe what my priest says for now and in Jesus' Divine Mercy. We are the Body of Christ, not just the hierarchy and the rule of law. It is my church, my home and my family as the sign over our church says. I can't imagine that Jesus wants this candidate to be turned away from His church over this issue when she obviously wants to be with Him, or she would not have made the RCIA commitment.

I'm sorry if this is combative, but I don't agree with saying cavalierly saying my priest who has been a learned priest for 50 years is wrong.
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#14 of 220 Old 12-21-2009, 01:00 PM
 
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I almost hate to post this because I don't want to get in an argument about this, but it has been on my mind and heart. If it is combative, please accept my apologies. I have been going back and forth about answering or not.

We are given priests to guide us.

Also, I was just reading about Pope Paul IV and how the Humanae Vitae was unprecedentedly rejected by theologian and the church prelates. I will continue reading about this and studying and talking to my priests.

And we all know what Jesus had to say about legalism 2000 years ago.

We are not talking about premarital sex and generalities. We are talking about women who know their limits. Our mission in marriage is to love our spouses and families into heaven. That presupposes that we have to be healthy enough to do so. Repeated miscarriages, permanent damage to our physical health and mental health issues damage that mission. To guilt someone into children who doesn't believe in their heart they can do it or are told by their dr. they can't is just wrong. God doesn't need more baby souls to worship him. He needs us healthy to care for the family he gave us. I am a strong believer in redemptive suffering, but not that we go out and harm ourselves on purpose and offer it to Jesus.

It's hard enough to make our marriage a continually sacramental passionate representation of God's love for His Church. We can't do that if we are suffering under the issue of BC and guilt.

I'll believe what my priest says for now and in Jesus' Divine Mercy. We are the Body of Christ, not just the hierarchy and the rule of law. It is my church, my home and my family as the sign over our church says. I can't imagine that Jesus wants this candidate to be turned away from His church over this issue when she obviously wants to be with Him, or she would not have made the RCIA commitment.

I'm sorry if this is combative, but I don't agree with saying cavalierly saying my priest who has been a learned priest for 50 years is wrong.
I agree wholeheartedly with you
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#15 of 220 Old 12-21-2009, 01:21 PM
 
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I agree wholeheartedly with you
Thanks. I needed to hear that. I get so caught up in the energy of this type of stuff. Given where I am personally (physically and mentally) I should really avoid it. However, I have had these questions and received answers I and the priest were ok with. I have a hard time not sharing that, though of course I want to lead no one astray and seek at all times to be a representative of Jesus' Divine Mercy.
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#16 of 220 Old 12-21-2009, 02:40 PM
 
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If you do not believe what the Church teaches, then you do not believe in the Church's authority. You do not believe Christ set up the Church and guides it. If you do not believe these things, you are not in line with the Catholic Church. You deny one of the core beliefs regarding the authority of the Church.

One or two or twenty priests do not speak for the Church. Priests, bishops, cardinals- heck, even popes (and do not quote infalliblity to me... they are only infallible in certain matters)- have been wrong in the past. The Church has weathered my problems throughout all of history. Many people have fallen prey to heresy and heretical teachings throughout all of Church history. People in the Church- both lay and clergy- are human and therefore subject to err and to sin.

While a priest is the authority over his church, he is not a lone authority. He answers to his bishops, who answers to the hierarchy of the church. All answer to the pope. Any priest that says ABC is okay is not obedient to the Church and it dead wrong. We need to pray for his soul because he is in grave danger of being damned. Tough words- but Church teaching. If people do not accept that, there are other religions who might fit their beliefs better,

The Catholic Church is NOT a democracy. If it was, it would have been destroyed long ago.

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#17 of 220 Old 12-21-2009, 02:51 PM
 
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By the way, Humanae Vitae was very unpopular and still is. You are right about that. However, that doesn't matter. Christ and His teachings were unpopular when he lived, and have remained unpopular ever since. That doesn't make his teachings any less true. The truth of something is not determined by the popular opinion. Christ said He came to divide....

As for "legalism"- what Christ said was that legalism done for the sake of legalism is wrong. The actual acts are not wrong- in fact, they are good, but only when done with love. If you believe you can pick and choose what to do, and the rules and regulations and laws aren't important, then why have them at all? Why have any laws or any doctrines? What's the point?

People who cry "foul" based on legalism often quote scripture to support it. Not only do they not understand scripture, they do not understand the Catholic Church. They fail to understand the reasons behind the teachings- and they ofen remain WILLFULLY ignorant of the reasons because they do not want to change themselves.

Like I said before, Holy Mother Church is loving and beautiful. Her laws and doctrines and teachings are there because God loves us. They do not limit what we can do- they set us free.

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#18 of 220 Old 12-21-2009, 02:55 PM
 
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If you do not believe what the Church teaches, then you do not believe in the Church's authority. You do not believe Christ set up the Church and guides it. If you do not believe these things, you are not in line with the Catholic Church. You deny one of the core beliefs regarding the authority of the Church.

One or two or twenty priests do not speak for the Church. Priests, bishops, cardinals- heck, even popes (and do not quote infalliblity to me... they are only infallible in certain matters)- have been wrong in the past. The Church has weathered my problems throughout all of history. Many people have fallen prey to heresy and heretical teachings throughout all of Church history. People in the Church- both lay and clergy- are human and therefore subject to err and to sin.

While a priest is the authority over his church, he is not a lone authority. He answers to his bishops, who answers to the hierarchy of the church. All answer to the pope. Any priest that says ABC is okay is not obedient to the Church and it dead wrong. We need to pray for his soul because he is in grave danger of being damned. Tough words- but Church teaching. If people do not accept that, there are other religions who might fit their beliefs better,

The Catholic Church is NOT a democracy. If it was, it would have been destroyed long ago.



Exactly!

-------
Pope John Paul II didn't write Humanae Vitae as a light hearted joke... something to be followed only if we feel like it.

Why are you looking for the dissenters? You can quote a few dissenters sure, they are out there certainly, but that doesn't change the truth, nor does it change the facts... ABC is wrong, sterilization is wrong!

Your Priest thinks the Church is wrong..... that is his issue... and it is so so very very wrong of him to be intentionally misleading his parishioners on such a basic Church doctrine.

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#19 of 220 Old 12-21-2009, 02:59 PM
 
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I'm sorry if this is combative, but I don't agree with saying cavalierly saying my priest who has been a learned priest for 50 years is wrong.


It is not cavalier to say that this priest is wrong... he is intentionally misleading you because he doesn't agree with the Church... That is not a kind, wise or learned thing to do. He is immperiling SOULS with his false teachings...

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#20 of 220 Old 12-21-2009, 04:55 PM
 
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It is not cavalier to say that this priest is wrong... he is intentionally misleading you because he doesn't agree with the Church... That is not a kind, wise or learned thing to do. He is immperiling SOULS with his false teachings...
Yes!
It also sounds like his advice was specific and private to you. Spreading false teaching, particularly in the manner of trying to convince another, is scandalous.

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To guilt someone into children who doesn't believe in their heart they can do it or are told by their dr. they can't is just wrong. God doesn't need more baby souls to worship him. He needs us healthy to care for the family he gave us. I am a strong believer in redemptive suffering, but not that we go out and harm ourselves on purpose and offer it to Jesus.
The Church never forces a married couple to have sex, and permits "birth control" through NFP or abstinence for serious situations as you've described. No one said you need to keep having kids if things are really bad. Maintaining chastity according to our state in life can be REALLY hard sometimes but it is called of all people.

BTW, NFP, when practiced faithfully, is statistically more effective than any ABC. There are failures of any method. Having sex during a fertile time with ABC is technically a procreative act due to the failure rate.

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#21 of 220 Old 12-21-2009, 07:23 PM
 
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Wow. I was just looking at what I posted and I have typo's all over the place! Sorry! That's what happens when you are in a hurry

Corrie, "trad" Catholic, wife to DH and Mom to DD (4/07), DS (2/09), DD (2/11), DD (4/13), two angel babies. 
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#22 of 220 Old 12-21-2009, 11:53 PM
 
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I would suggest reading The Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West. It really helped me understand and embrace Church teachings, and it is a really friendly to read format.

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#23 of 220 Old 12-22-2009, 07:07 PM
 
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Just want to chime in in an attempt to help the OP. I am a convert, too, and one of the reasons I resisted coming to the Church for so many (wasted) years was my stubborness on a number of hot button issues. Birth control was one of them.

I finally entered RCIA and simultaneously DH & I became open to having children. I was accepted into the Church while pregnant with DD. I have had one miscarriage since then (ironically I became pregnant with that "surprise" after using artificial BC, which I confessed) and have DS as well. DH is NOT a Catholic and we still struggle with this.

All of which is to say ... if this is your only issue with the Church, please don't let it harden your heart. It's easy for those of us who see the beauty and logic of the teaching to say "Never. No Way. No!" but of course we all have to start somewhere. I wouldn't want you to start with an ill-informed priest, but do pray about this and continue to learn on your journey. You may find that the teaching becomes easier as you go. The Holy Spirit can and does change hearts and minds.

Beth.
Trying to be a joyful Catholic wife and mama, and taking it one day at a time!
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#24 of 220 Old 12-22-2009, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for all the replies - it was helpful to read them all. I basically have no time to post because my kids go nuts if I am doing something for myself.

Allow me to elaborate on my situation so that maybe I can get some help with this. My dh is an atheist, he will never become Catholic and for the most part he hates all organized religion, he tolerates me converting because he loves me but he really wishes I wasn't. We were possibly open to NFP but then when I really studied it I found out that we were most likely going to have to abstain about a week or more. That is just not ok with either of us but absolutely unacceptable for my dh.

Mentally, financially, and just in general we cannot have any more children. I went back to work when #2 was 8 months old and me staying home is NOT and option financially or mentally. Our kids are extremely difficult especially dd (both sets of g-parents each tried to babysit for a long time the first time this week and said they will not do so again until all of her behavior issues are resolved, in fact FIL sent her home early because she was so bad. Both of them asked how the hell I deal with her.) Our marriage is in shambles because we have no family support and cannot afford to hire outside help at this time. Dh works all the time and most all the child care is in my hands. I am utterly exhausted. My life only consists of working, cleaning and taking care of my two kids. Adding another one to the mix would not be a good thing. Honestly I don't trust NFP to work especially for the long term. I know that the statistics are good but we are really fertile (4 pregnancies in three years) and we won't be able to abstain. Dh and I have no health ins., no retirement and no savings. We get by every month but there isn't much $ to do a whole lot extra. I don't think it is selfish to want to be able to have hobbies for ourselves and for our kids and we would like to be able to hopefully get to that place someday where we can do fun things.

This is really the only issue holding me back right now. People get pg all the time and in horrid situations so the whole thing about God knowing when the right time is just doesn't really resonate with me. Yes I do believe that He knows better than me but it seems to me that fertility is something that our bodies naturally have and that if I left it to God I would probably have a baby every two years. I'm already at my breaking point with the two I have and any more would just push me over the edge. It wouldn't be fair to my children to have another baby. I also have to think about my dh's feelings here. He doesn't want to use NFP so it isn't fair to push it on him.

I feel really lost, the Catholic Church is the only place that really feels like home but if need be I guess I will just move on to the Episcopal Church. I just don't know what to do. My family life does not integrate with my spiritual life at all. The bottom line is that the abstinence required with NFP is totally unacceptable for my dh and I don't really like it either, I want something a bit more reliable and easier to use and we really don't want anymore kids.

Thanks for helping me out I appreciate all comments but please try to put yourself in my shoes. It is so easy looking in from the outside to say,"This is what the Church teaches and it is right." But when you are in my shoes it isn't that simple. Thank you!
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#25 of 220 Old 12-23-2009, 12:28 AM
 
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#26 of 220 Old 12-23-2009, 01:20 AM
 
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You know there are many who will cry foul to this, but being Catholic does not mean that you need agree with all church doctrine. It simply does not. Follow your heart.

It is unfortunately doctrines like this one that cause many to say "I was raised Catholic but..." I wonder how long it will take the church to care?
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#27 of 220 Old 12-23-2009, 06:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cagnew View Post
One of the reasons that the Church teaches birth control is immoral is because many forms of it (all... with the exception of condoms and withdrawing) are abortifacients. It is very possible to conceive on birth control, and then have the medications actually prevent the fertilized egg from implanting, or kill the egg. Even if the odds are small, they are still there.

Another reason using ABC is wrong is because it shows a lack of faith and trust in God. It says to God "I know better." Remember, no life is conceived without God instilling the soul into it. If He wants you to have a child, He gives it to you. By blocking this and telling Him "no" you deny His will. He knows your financial situation, your mental situation, etc. He also knows what is best for you- and what is best isn't always what WE think is best. We are to trust that He is in control and surrender.

Personally, I don't understand using NFP to avoid pregnancy. That still seems to say "no" to God since you prohibit a child coming into being by not having sex. I don't know how to reconcile that.... Any thoughts?

The Catholic Church is very clear that any means of ABC is strictly considered a mortal sin. There is no "conscience clause." Any priest that says there is very clearly out of line with Church teachings. Heck, you can find a priest to justify anything if you look hard enough. Furthermore, any woman taking ABC for "health reasons" must refrain from having sex while on the medication due to the abortifacient issue. I realize this seems cruel and legalistic, but, as with everything in the Church, there are very good and loving reasons behind it.

One other thought- think of what you do everytime you bring another child into the world- even if you lose it through miscarriage (I have had 2 m/c). You and your spouse participate with God Almighty to bring into being a brand new soul. This soul has the ability to live in heaven for all eternity. Every child you have is another child that can experience the beauty and love of God, and unimaginable joy of heaven. Plus, by saying yes to God and allowing more life to be created, you give to God another soul to worship Him. If we love God and strive to serve Him above all else, and we want to please Him above all else, then what better way then to create yet another soul to do the same? It's amazing and awesome to contemplate! So, if you suffer as a result of getting pregnant, how does can that possibly compare to the ultimate outcome of another soul being created? This life is only a "blink of an eye" and we are to be heaven-minded and eternity-minded people- in the world, but not of it. Suffering we endure here has its purpose and, if we choose to offer it to God, is never wasted. That is one of the beautiful things about the Catholic faith- we believe in redemptive suffering. For us, all suffering is a way to come closer to God and to pray for others- it is never pointless or useless. People who do not believe in this still endure suffering, but it's without purpose and is therefore, sadly, nothing more than pain to them.

I'm sorry for the tangent. I just love being Catholic, and the more I learn, the more I am not disappointed. Congrats on your journey. I understand struggling with the BC issue. Just pray that the Holy Spirit would live in you and your husband, and would change your hearts if it is God's will to do so. God will not disappoint you!

Merry Christmas!!!!
THank you for your thoughtful post. It was very helpful for me to read, and it cleared quite a bit up for me. Peace.
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#28 of 220 Old 12-23-2009, 02:12 PM
 
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If your husband chooses to contracept it is not your sin, and you would not be obligated to refuse to have relations with him because of it.

You sound overwhelmed. *hug*

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#29 of 220 Old 12-23-2009, 02:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl View Post
You know there are many who will cry foul to this, but being Catholic does not mean that you need agree with all church doctrine. It simply does not. Follow your heart.

It is unfortunately doctrines like this one that cause many to say "I was raised Catholic but..." I wonder how long it will take the church to care?
To be a full participant in the Church you DO need to follow all her teachings, and at least work on understanding them.

It is not doctrines like this that cause people to turn away.... it is the poor poor poor education offered by most parishes, and so many "educated" Priests and laiety misinforming and misleading people.

The Church cares very much... and because she cares has not changed these teachings to fit popular opinion.

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#30 of 220 Old 12-23-2009, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks so much for the replies. I am very overwhelmed. Even though my dh doesn't want to use NFP is it still my sin if I go along with it and I agree with him? It would just feel sort of like lying if I said we used bc only because dh objects to it when I am a willing participant. We don't believe in hormonal bc so we would be using condoms, withdrawal or he may get a V eventually.

At my church I was told that I could use bc as long as I consciously made that decision, hence the reason I don't want to ask there because I know what they will say. This is a deal breaker for me because I cannot in good faith go through with converting while intending to sin against the Church.

Any thoughts on that? Thanks!
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