Non-believers/members asking for blessings/sacraments - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 41 Old 01-29-2010, 03:57 PM
 
Missinnyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 703
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm surprised that you won't perform a blessing or a marriage for someone who isn't a Christian. I am an evangelical Christian, but our church will marry anyone who is willing to undergo counselling, etc. I don't think anyone would want to undergo it if they didn't believe, but they could. Marriage is a good thing, even if between non Believers. Same with demons- they need to be gotten rid of, whether they live in Christians' houses or not.

It sounds like that woman may have needed counselling or prayer or even someone to talk to. Setting her up with a home visit by a priest would have been a kind and compassionate thing to do.

Mom to 5 wonderful kids (9, 6, 4, 2 and 0), 1 adopted through foster care.

Missinnyc is offline  
#32 of 41 Old 01-29-2010, 09:51 PM
 
lilyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 18,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
for us marriage is a sacrement. You have to be a full member of the church to recieve sacrements. Sacrements are not for sale or for making people feel good about themselves. Even in my evangelical protestant days my pastors were choosy about who they would marry. Only Christians, no mixed religon marriages (and that extended to some "christian" groups), and no strangers.

a house blessing, while not a sacrement is still a pretty big deal.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

lilyka is offline  
#33 of 41 Old 01-30-2010, 12:57 AM
 
Smokering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 8,610
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
MissinNYC: In my church, the fact that the pastor rarely (almost never) performs wedding ceremonies for non-Christians is mostly to do with the fact that he isn't a full-time celebrant: he's a pastor. I imagine few small-church pastors, at least, would be able to take time out of their week to do to many "extra-curricular" (ie. non-members') weddings. So it's not necessarily a question of thinking non-Christian marriages aren't a good thing, or anything like that: it can just be a time issue. Plus, in my dad's case, he does insist on going through practical but definitely Christian-flavoured pre-marriage counselling with the couple, and not all secular couples are willing to do that. And he doesn't like to marry couples he doesn't know, simply because he doesn't like to marry couples unless he thinks they have a reasonable shot at making it work. Not that he turns people away on a regular basis or anything, but if he thought a marriage was going to be a trainwreck he wouldn't want the responsibility of having sealed the deal. So... yeah.

If decomposition persists please see your necromancer.

Smokering is offline  
#34 of 41 Old 01-30-2010, 02:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
Tradd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanniesue2 View Post

Now, as to the OP's situation... the lady sounds bossy and demanding. Her attitude might be her way of coping with a pretty stressful situation (and for your sake, I'm sorry). I'm wondering what her real and deep motivation is. If she is truly scared in her environment, but also has some discomfort with some of the rituals found in orthodoxy... she might feel like the only place she has to turn is a place that she has typically been kind of leary about. It sounds like she is having a real conflict within herself. Now, I don't think that that means that one of your local priests has to accomodate her wish for a house blessing... but maybe a few questions to dig and find out what she REALLY needs... and then a compassionate point in a direction that might be helpful to her.
Well, if she wouldn't answer MY questions, I don't think she was going to answer questions from a priest. She didn't want to call up a church and talk to the priest herself. She wanted ME to set the whole thing up, which wasn't going to happen. Because even if I was able to find a priest willing to even consider doing it, he'd want to talk to her himself before doing it. Doing stuff "no questions asked," particularly for someone who is not Orthodox doesn't happen. This lady doesn't even appear to have been Christian.

We had a meeting of the denominational organization this week that I'm president of. I talked to the three priests there about this - one Greek and two of different Slavic backgrounds. NONE of them would have done the house blessing without talking to her, and they said that even if they had talked to her, if all she had wanted was - to paraphrase a PP - "holy water and vestments" - they wouldn't have done it.

lady.gif
Tradd is offline  
#35 of 41 Old 01-31-2010, 04:10 PM
 
lilyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 18,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I wonder if she expected him to come in like an exterminator while she was out and take care of business or if she intended to participate. I mean a house blessing is one of those things everyone gathers and participates in.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

lilyka is offline  
#36 of 41 Old 01-31-2010, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
Tradd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My priest actually spoke at some length today about something related - non-parish members contacting and asking about the COST of weddings or baptisms. He said he's had quite a lot of this very recently about weddings - must have something to with the fact that a lot of people get engaged over the holidays. He gets emails where it's very clear that several priests are included on blind cc (a recipient can't see who the other recipients are), and they're sort of pitted against each other, to see who can give the best bid!

He makes it very clear to them that he does NOT do weddings or baptisms for non-members (someone who is looking for the best price is clearly not a member of a particular parish) and there is NO charge to members for sacraments or blessings. In his comments today, he said that the no-fee concept seems to be a difficult concept to get across! Most folks who are calling him just don't get it.

The sacraments are not for sale - that's simony.

lady.gif
Tradd is offline  
#37 of 41 Old 02-01-2010, 05:17 PM
 
mamabadger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,840
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd View Post
In his comments today, he said that the no-fee concept seems to be a difficult concept to get across! Most folks who are calling him just don't get it.

The sacraments are not for sale
Socialism!
mamabadger is offline  
#38 of 41 Old 02-01-2010, 11:57 PM
 
lilyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 18,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
i just can't imagine someone outsideof the Orthodox church wanting an Orthodox wedding.....

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

lilyka is offline  
#39 of 41 Old 02-02-2010, 12:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
Tradd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
i just can't imagine someone outsideof the Orthodox church wanting an Orthodox wedding.....
Well, Father said these were Orthodox folks, apparently not attached to any particular parish, who were offering their wedding to the highest bidder!

lady.gif
Tradd is offline  
#40 of 41 Old 02-02-2010, 01:23 AM - Thread Starter
 
Tradd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamabadger View Post
Socialism!
Why would this be socialism? We pay our priest well enough (including a housing allowance and health insurance) that he doesn't have to have a secular job - so he doesn't need the income from doing weddings/baptisms (aka "stole fees" that some priests charge). We're not a "wedding factory" like some other parishes I know (we only had three weddings last year, and only one was a "full" wedding - the other two were marriage blessings), and only two baptisms, one chrismation. You don't have to give our priest anything when he comes to do your house blessing after Theophany.

Members aren't charged ANYTHING. They might choose to give the choir something for their time (the money goes into replacing/buying new music books) or give Father something for his discretionary fund used for charitable purposes. But that's their own decision. It's not mandated, we don't have a price sheet for the sacraments on our website, unlike some parishes I know.

lady.gif
Tradd is offline  
#41 of 41 Old 02-02-2010, 11:43 AM
 
mamabadger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,840
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Of course, I was kidding about the socialism; but my point was, the attitude that money rules and everything has a price sometimes gets applied to church matters as well. The idea that sacraments cannot be bought or sold surprises some people more than it should.
mamabadger is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off