question for Catholics re: confession - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 24 Old 02-06-2010, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
kangamitroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: city girl reading on a farm in PA
Posts: 1,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i was raised Catholic, and before i made my First Communion we made our First Confession. At that time (early 1980s), at least in my parish, the teaching was that you had to make confession before receiving communion. we'd go every saturday afternoon. but during my elementary school years, it seemed this practice died out. it became unnecessary, to the extent that only extremely pious people seemed even to go to confession at all.

my questions: Why did this practice change? (of having one's conscience made formally clean before receiving communion)
or, did it not change, and just my parish was starting to get lax in its observation?

thank you.

mama to one amazing daughter born 1/2004
kangamitroo is offline  
#2 of 24 Old 02-06-2010, 10:03 PM
 
Tradd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangamitroo View Post
i was raised Catholic, and before i made my First Communion we made our First Confession. At that time (early 1980s), at least in my parish, the teaching was that you had to make confession before receiving communion. we'd go every saturday afternoon. but during my elementary school years, it seemed this practice died out. it became unnecessary, to the extent that only extremely pious people seemed even to go to confession at all.

my questions: Why did this practice change? (of having one's conscience made formally clean before receiving communion)
or, did it not change, and just my parish was starting to get lax in its observation?

thank you.
Note: I was raised Catholic (pretty much lapsed after I graduated from Catholic high school in 1987) and I've now been an Orthodox Christian for more than six years. I was born in 1969.

I grew up in the Archdiocese of Detroit. I received First Communion in second grade (1977) and First Confession was in fourth or fifth grade - so about 1980-81.

I have an older friend (now Orthodox) who was an Ursuline nun from when she was 18 to about 30 or so. She taught the lower grammar school grades - usually first and second grade. We talked about the very subject of your post several times. She told me that since she taught the lower grades, she taught about Confession and First Communion - since this was pre-Vatican II, the kids had Confession before their First Communion. She said she took great pains to not scare the kids, but taught them that God loved them, and wanted to make sure everything was "right" with them, which meant confessing what they had done wrong (at that age, it was often being mean to siblings, lying, cheating at school work, being mean to parents, etc.).

I only remember doing First Confession the one time and not afterward until I went to Catholic school from eighth grade through high school graduation. With the school (my family belonged to a different parish), you went to Confession during Advent and Lent.

The parish my family belonged to had a practice of doing a Communal Penance service during Lent. It was supposed to be a preparation for Confession, and priests were available after to hear Confession, but no one in my family went and I don't remember very many people going over to the confessionals after the service was over. I remember the Archdiocese really frowning upon the parish doing this service, since it was really only supposed to be used when men were going off to war (or something similar) and there wasn't time for private Confessions to be heard.

I just checked the website of this parish - where my parents still are members - and Communal Penance services are listed for various parishes in the area.

From my many Catholic friends and family members, private Confession seems to have been almost totally abandoned. My parents admitted a while back that they've not done private Confession in something like 25 years, yet they're still at Mass each Sunday and receive Communion weekly. My best friend from high school is married to a fellow whose uncle (and great uncle) are/were priests. She proudly told me that she's not been to Confession since she graduated from high school, which was 1988. She told me that the Church isn't so much into Confession anymore. She's in the Archdiocese of Detroit, too, as are my parents. Her children did First Communion in second grade, and First Confession will be in fifth grade or so.

Given the almost virtual neglect of Confession among Catholic friends and family, I was astonished when a Catholic coworker in a previous workplace said he and his family did Confession once a month.

I listened to Catholic radio locally a few years back - especially Catholic Answers - and there always seemed to be a lot of talk about how the Catholic Church needed to re-emphasize Confession, and that the almost total neglect of this sacrament I refer to seems to be pretty common.

By comparision, the Orthodox parish I was chrismated in required Confession once a month. I'm in another parish now, and my current priest prefers Confession four times a year, during the four fasting seasons, but I still go once a month, as that's good spiritual practice for me. Mandated minimum is once a year, during Great Lent. My Catholic friends and family are, to put it bluntly, appalled I go to Confession so frequently. Whether they think I'm stupid for going so often (what do you have to confess to go so often? yes, I've gotten that), or have memories of Confession that make them squirm, or realize they *should* go, but haven't and are uncomfortable at the realization, I don't know. But *something* about it makes them uneasy. They're almost squirming when we talk.

I don't know why some people dislike Confession so much. I find it very spiritually fruitful, even if the process of self-examination makes me squirm, but the actual confessing of my sins and the spiritual counsel of my priest after is always very helpful, and is a huge relief and lightening of my soul.

I found this link you might find interesting:

http://www.ewtn.org/library/Liturgy/FIRSTCC.HTM

Holy cow, I just had a huge shock! I was poking around more on my parent's parish website and found the "sacramental schedule" for this school year. The second graders had First Confession in the fall and First Communion will be in May! You could have knocked me over with a feather! Guess it's pretty much a parish by parish thing - or the bishop decided to put his foot down.

lady.gif
Tradd is offline  
#3 of 24 Old 02-07-2010, 06:31 PM
 
KempsMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The short answer is, because of Vatican II.

Basically modernists believe that Vatican II relieved us of needing to go to confession every week, but rather that we can receive communion as long as we have confessed all MORTAL sin.

Traditional Catholics still attend weekly confession. In most parishes today it does not appear to be the norm.

Heathyr hang.gifBlessed Catholic Wife to DHwheelchair.gif Devoted Mama to DS1 biglaugh.gif(3/17/08) and DS2blowkiss.gif (8/5/2010)familybed1.gifcd.giflactivist.gifribboncesarean.gifx2 
KempsMama is offline  
#4 of 24 Old 02-07-2010, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
kangamitroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: city girl reading on a farm in PA
Posts: 1,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thank you, tradd and kempsmama. i guess the changes from 1965, understandably, took a while to spread into parishes. my communion was made in 1981. (as a teen i stopped attending church.)

for lack of a better way to phrase this, i wonder did Vatican II decide it was an old-fashioned idea? like covering one's head in church (which my mom did in the 1960s, but it vanished with the Latin mass)? i wonder if it was more like "if we make people go to confession, they might not want to bother with church anymore." sort of, what do we have to do to keep people coming?

as an aside: tradd, i have been for a long while interested in the differences between catholic and orthodox practices. your posts always enlighten on this note. interesting quarterly confession. and i'm with you, that asking for forgiveness can be a very cleansing, satisfying practcie to engage in.

mama to one amazing daughter born 1/2004
kangamitroo is offline  
#5 of 24 Old 02-07-2010, 07:17 PM
JMJ
 
JMJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
These days, Catholics are *required* to go to Confession at least once a year and after any mortal sin before receiving Communion. (They are also required to receive Communion once a year, Mass every Sunday plus Holy Days of Obligation.) The Penitential Rite in the Mass gives Catholics the ability to reconcile with God and the Church for venial sins, so they don't technically have to go to Confession right before receiving Communion. Many Catholics do not meet the once a year requirement yet continue to receive Communion, likely because they do not know of this requirement, and I have never seen it enforced in any way. Most preaching about Confession is about how good it is for us, not informing us of any requirements.
JMJ is offline  
#6 of 24 Old 02-07-2010, 07:38 PM
 
KempsMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think the intent was to make the faith more accessible to lay people. Many Traditional Catholics disagree with the common interpretation of Vatican II.

Heathyr hang.gifBlessed Catholic Wife to DHwheelchair.gif Devoted Mama to DS1 biglaugh.gif(3/17/08) and DS2blowkiss.gif (8/5/2010)familybed1.gifcd.giflactivist.gifribboncesarean.gifx2 
KempsMama is offline  
#7 of 24 Old 02-07-2010, 07:46 PM
 
claddaghmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It now isn't a requirement to receive the sacrament of Penance before the sacrament of Communion as long as you have not committed any grave sins. You have to go to confession at least once a year though.


Was this an actual Church requirement? I am not that knowledgable in that department.


I personally like this sacrament a lot...maybe it's my psychology roots. But the times it is available are extremely inconvenient. I think it's a catch 22. Few people understand or appreciate the value of this sacrament. So it's offered rarely. (And of course a priest shortage/overworked priests adds to this). But then it also means people who want to go, can't.

So my attendance spikes around Lent and Advent, b/c that is when parishes start offering evening and weekday confessions.



Seriously though, it can get bad. For example one church near my work is the only church in the area that offers a weekday noonish confession time. I decided to go on my lunch break...with apparently the entire city. I stood in line for an hour and then had to leave to go back to work.

Mama to expecting Babe 2
claddaghmom is offline  
#8 of 24 Old 02-07-2010, 11:08 PM
 
Tradd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangamitroo View Post

as an aside: tradd, i have been for a long while interested in the differences between catholic and orthodox practices. your posts always enlighten on this note. interesting quarterly confession. and i'm with you, that asking for forgiveness can be a very cleansing, satisfying practcie to engage in.
Kangamitroo, I was tired when I posted that. I should have written that Confession during the four fasts is my priest's preferred *minimum.*

Since you're interested in Orthodox practice, I'll just briefly mention how we do Confession.

Some parishes will have a little area set aside for Confession, often at the front of the church on one side - out in the open. You're not behind closed doors. It's often under the Cross or an icon of Christ. There's often a lectern or something similar with a Gospel book and a Cross for you to kiss before you begin your Confession. You stand side-by-side with the priest. Sometimes you might kneel, depending on the parish. My priest will be at a right angle to me (I'm standing in front of the lectern and he's on the left side of it, at a 90 degree angle to me). But I don't have to look at him if I don't want to!

You confess your sins, and then your spiritual father (who is not uncommonly your parish priest) will give advice, comments, etc. He'll ask if you're sorry for your sins. Of course, I say yes. If you said no, there would be discussion, you betcha! And depending on the outcome of that discussion, no absolution. For absolution, the priest will put his stole on your head and say the prayer of absolution. Right before he gives absolution, my priest always says to me, keep struggling.

I don't know how Catholics are taught to do Confession nowadays, but what I was taught in Catholic CCD/school in the early-mid 80s was that you did your "laundry list" of sins - you did X sin X number of times and so on down the list (at that age it was swearing, talking back to parents or teachers, lying, that sort of thing). But from the older adults talking, that's what they did too - the laundry list. Then the priest gave you penance - a certain number of Our Fathers, Hail Marys, and Glory Be-s. I don't know how it is with older Orthodox, but I was never taught to do the laundry list - yes, you still confess your exact sins, but it's not the "I did X sin X number of times."

In Orthodoxy, the Church is described as a "spiritual hospital" and Confession is described as "spiritual medicine." Holy Communion is referred to as "the medicine of immortality" by St. Ignatius of Antioch (very early saint, he was martyred about 110 AD?). As a Catholic, the priest who heard my Confession just said "try not to do these things again," gave whatever penance, and that was that. The two Orthodox priests (I've been a member of two parishes) I've gone to Confession to always give some sort of counsel appropriate to whatever I'd been struggling with. Our Confession lines don't go quickly for the most part. Mine aren't as long as they could be, because I go to Confession monthly - less time for spiritual crud to build up - but it's not uncommon for one's Confession to last 10-15 minutes. If there's a line of people waiting (as often happens during Lent), then someone will be chanting Psalms in the church to "cover" the Confessions going on. In both parishes I've belonged to, people will queue up in the nave itself for Confession, although further back in the nave.

Being given a penance isn't as common among the Orthodox as it is was among the Catholics, at least when I was growing up. Just different traditions.

OK, I *meant* that to be short, lol... But you *did* indicate an interest in the differences.

lady.gif
Tradd is offline  
#9 of 24 Old 02-07-2010, 11:16 PM
 
Tuesday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,279
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ View Post
These days, Catholics are *required* to go to Confession at least once a year and after any mortal sin before receiving Communion. (They are also required to receive Communion once a year, Mass every Sunday plus Holy Days of Obligation.) The Penitential Rite in the Mass gives Catholics the ability to reconcile with God and the Church for venial sins, so they don't technically have to go to Confession right before receiving Communion. Many Catholics do not meet the once a year requirement yet continue to receive Communion, likely because they do not know of this requirement, and I have never seen it enforced in any way. Most preaching about Confession is about how good it is for us, not informing us of any requirements.
I'm Canadian and my children attend a Catholic school. My DH is Catholic. The priests are very very outright about the requirement and the benefits of the rite of Reconciliation (confession). Many times during a homily, the priest will mention that people should be going to confession seasonly if not regularly. The school parish is small - perhaps 80-120 people. The confessions are either through a screen or face to face.

I figure the priests can admonish people all they want but they can't force people to the Confession room. My DH waited 20 years between confessions! And he calls himself Catholic?
Tuesday is offline  
#10 of 24 Old 02-07-2010, 11:18 PM
 
Tradd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ View Post
These days, Catholics are *required* to go to Confession at least once a year and after any mortal sin before receiving Communion. (They are also required to receive Communion once a year, Mass every Sunday plus Holy Days of Obligation.) The Penitential Rite in the Mass gives Catholics the ability to reconcile with God and the Church for venial sins, so they don't technically have to go to Confession right before receiving Communion. Many Catholics do not meet the once a year requirement yet continue to receive Communion, likely because they do not know of this requirement, and I have never seen it enforced in any way. Most preaching about Confession is about how good it is for us, not informing us of any requirements.
See my bolded remarks. I think it would be difficult to enforce this requirement for two reasons. One, Catholic parishes are so large that I doubt that more than a few parishioners are known to the pastor by name (or any priest that says Mass on a regular basis in a particular parish). Two, if the tradition of "anonymous" Confession (not face to face) is still widespread, then the priest wouldn't know who was coming to Confession.

In contrast, most Orthodox parishes are smaller (I'd say under 300 people). Mine has about 150 people. In my experience, this simply means that the priest has the opportunity (and does use it) to keep people accountable. I *have* seen people turned away at the chalice because they hadn't been to Confession within a certain amount of time (when you're behind such a person in the Communion line, you hear even the quiet conversation between them and the priest). It also helps that only the priest (or priests, if there is more than one in a parish) distributes Communion, so he knows exactly who is being given Communion (lay Eucharistic ministers are totally unknown in Orthodoxy).

To the PP who is a traditional Catholic, do folks in your parish generally receive Communion weekly? I'm curious because I've been told by a number of older people who were regularly practicing Catholics pre-Vatican II that it wasn't common practice to receive Communion weekly, even though you went to Confession weekly.

lady.gif
Tradd is offline  
#11 of 24 Old 02-08-2010, 02:16 AM
 
ledzepplon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 5,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
At our parish, the pastor is very pro-reconciliation. There is confession twice a day Mon-Sat.

Wife to a wonderful dh and mom to four beautiful kiddos, dd (3/04):, ds1 (1/06), ds2 (10/08), and ds3 (7/10)
ledzepplon is offline  
#12 of 24 Old 02-08-2010, 02:19 PM
 
kcstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: nowhere near Kansas
Posts: 756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Not Catholic now, but... I also had First Reconciliation in the fall before First Communion, both in 2nd grade. I probably went to confession a dozen or two times from 2nd grade into college when I stopped practicing. It was usually available at retreats, and I would go then. Sometimes the parish would have a large reconciliation service. I think the weekly time was Saturday evening right before the vigil mass.

Both the anonymous booth and the face-to-face were usually available. One of the rooms actually had a wall divider designed like the old-style booth (grate, kneeler, etc), but you could walk around that if you preferred face-to-face.

I was not taught to do the laundry list, but I was taught particular words and phrases to use, that I could never remember. I think there was a particular prayer that I always forgot.

Unitarian Universalist Pagan
kcstar is offline  
#13 of 24 Old 02-08-2010, 02:41 PM
 
Comtessa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have never been a part of any Catholic community that "enforced" Confession. I think the whole notion of "enforcing" or "requiring" something as part of one's individual spiritual/religious life is honestly ridiculous. Doesn't it lose its power if we go because we "have" to? Just like Mass - I'd honestly rather that all the people who are there because they think they "should" go stay home, and leave the liturgy to those of us who really want to be there!

But that's a tangent.

What I wanted to say was this: as a young adult, I had a few experiences with this sacrament that completely changed my perspective on it. Like most people, I grew up frankly terrified of Confession, and secretly concerned that my omission of some sin or other was going to make all my participation in the Eucharist somehow invalid. When I finally realized that all of that was absolute nonsense, I felt freed to actually participate in the sacrament with joy rather than out of terror.

I had a priest say to me, "it doesn't matter how long it's been and it doesn't matter what sort of laundry list you've been hauling around. What I want to know is, what sins do you have on your conscience that make you feel like your relationship with God is broken? Because if your relationship with God feels strained or broken, then that hurts all of us, because the Church is all one Body. As a member of that Body, my job is to help mend those hurts where I can so that we are all healthier for it."

For me, I think that there was an "aha" moment when I realized that Confession wasn't about God forgiving me 'via' some magic action of the priest - God has already forgiven my sin; nobody needs a priest's intervention to receive God's forgiveness.

The reason the priest is important, IMO, is because we cannot be Christian alone. We can only be Christian in community. Every individual's sin, then, is not committed in a vacuum - it also hurts all the members of the Body of Christ, and therefore we have to heal our brokenness, not just between us and God, but between us and the rest of the Body. Confession is how we heal the brokenness our sin has created within the Body of Christ.

I still participate infrequently (as it's not emphasized in my parish), but when I do make an effort to go to confession, I love it. Thanks for making me think about it today; I'd like to go sometime before Easter.

I'm traveling the world with my kids without ever leaving home and blogging about it -- watch, taste, and share our adventures at TheGlobalStayCation.com!
Comtessa is offline  
#14 of 24 Old 02-08-2010, 03:38 PM
 
MyLittleWonders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Always learning something new.
Posts: 8,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comtessa View Post

I had a priest say to me, "it doesn't matter how long it's been and it doesn't matter what sort of laundry list you've been hauling around. What I want to know is, what sins do you have on your conscience that make you feel like your relationship with God is broken? Because if your relationship with God feels strained or broken, then that hurts all of us, because the Church is all one Body. As a member of that Body, my job is to help mend those hurts where I can so that we are all healthier for it."

For me, I think that there was an "aha" moment when I realized that Confession wasn't about God forgiving me 'via' some magic action of the priest - God has already forgiven my sin; nobody needs a priest's intervention to receive God's forgiveness.

The reason the priest is important, IMO, is because we cannot be Christian alone. We can only be Christian in community. Every individual's sin, then, is not committed in a vacuum - it also hurts all the members of the Body of Christ, and therefore we have to heal our brokenness, not just between us and God, but between us and the rest of the Body. Confession is how we heal the brokenness our sin has created within the Body of Christ.

I still participate infrequently (as it's not emphasized in my parish), but when I do make an effort to go to confession, I love it. Thanks for making me think about it today; I'd like to go sometime before Easter.
This is beautiful. I'm not Catholic, though I'm interested in Catholicism, and between your post here and a book I read that talked about Reconciliation (though it was not a book about it), it makes me long for the ability to attend Confession for the healing that it possesses.

 Me + dh = heartbeat.gif ds (7/01), ds (11/03), ds (6/06)
and dd born 11/21/10 - our T21 SuperBaby ribbluyel.gif heartbeat.gif
MyLittleWonders is offline  
#15 of 24 Old 02-09-2010, 02:57 PM
 
cagnew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BFE, AL
Posts: 1,158
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Yes, our sins hurt the Body Of Christ as a whole. However, the reason we confess is primarily because our sins hurt Christ. Also, the priest does not forgive our sins- when the priest is in the confessional, he is there persona Christi. I don't have time to explain this (maybe someone else can?) but, basically, that means he acts as the person of Christ. Christ speaks through the priest and forgives our sins.

Also, I have a problem with the priest saying it doesn't matter what you did, and asking you to confess what you feel has broken your relationship with Christ. That comes dangerously close to sounding like moral relativism or something. The fact is, not all sins are the same, and not all sins hold the same weight. It really isn't up to *you* to decide what is bad and what is not- there are mortal sins and venial sins. While there is some room for personal knowledge (a sin isn't mortal for a person unless they know it is mortal), it doesn't change that what action is mortal sin and what is not. Using birth control is considered a mortal sin. Even if some people do not realize that, it is still a mortal sin, although their culpibility (sp) is lessened due to lack of knowledge.

The reason we are suppose to examine our conscience and confess in detail (with number of times and so on) is so that we can receive moral counseling. For example, if someone confesses...um... intoxication, it doesn't sound like big deal. BUT if someone says they have been intoxicated 15 times in the last month, that warrants some kind of comment from the priest.

It is very sad that confession isn't emphasized anymore. I truly believe that that is part of the problem the Church is experiencing. It's very scary to read what saints have said about confession in the past, especially in the light of the current "trend" in the church.

I could go on and on, but the kids need me

Corrie, "trad" Catholic, wife to DH and Mom to DD (4/07), DS (2/09), DD (2/11), DD (4/13), two angel babies. 
cagnew is online now  
#16 of 24 Old 02-11-2010, 10:45 PM
 
xekomaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Last Frontier
Posts: 2,175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
kangamitroo - I think your question has been answered in that the practice has NOT changed, that you must confess any mortal sins before receiving. There is just a scandalous lack of regard for the laws on the Church in most areas of the country now.

Tradd - your first post in this thread almost made my physically ill. uggh uggh uggh. The Catholic church is in such a crisis. I don't even know what to do about it except take my family to traditional Mass and try to protect them from the scandal.

I have never before this thread heard of receiving First Communion before First Confession unless a person is receiving all 3 sacraments of initiation at once. That sounds just crazy to me.

I do confess by "laundry list" but explain a little about anything that needs it - like why I missed Mass, or if a particular vice caused me to sin in another way - like pride tempting me to lie or something. The Priest does usually council in some way depending on what you confess, and it can be a LOT of advice if he thinks it is necessary

Kempsmama - I honestly can't figure out how you think VII relieved Catholics of the need to confess every week as long as all mortal sins were confessed. AFAIK, that has always been the rule, and there are no VII documents that say "don't bother confessing so much". ? Frequent Confession has always been a best practice, and will always be - just look at the writing of the Saints.

XM,: mama to ds (5/08), dd (9/10) and ds (6/12) ! whale.gif :C.H.S & M.

xekomaya is offline  
#17 of 24 Old 02-11-2010, 11:20 PM
 
KempsMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KempsMama View Post
The short answer is, because of Vatican II.

Basically modernists believe that Vatican II relieved us of needing to go to confession every week, but rather that we can receive communion as long as we have confessed all MORTAL sin.

Traditional Catholics still attend weekly confession. In most parishes today it does not appear to be the norm.
I didn't say that VII DID relieved of us weekly confession. I said MODERNISTS BELIEVE it did.

I didn't state my own personal beliefs, nor did I quote VII. Please don't attack my post without reading what I said.

Heathyr hang.gifBlessed Catholic Wife to DHwheelchair.gif Devoted Mama to DS1 biglaugh.gif(3/17/08) and DS2blowkiss.gif (8/5/2010)familybed1.gifcd.giflactivist.gifribboncesarean.gifx2 
KempsMama is offline  
#18 of 24 Old 02-11-2010, 11:27 PM
 
xekomaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Last Frontier
Posts: 2,175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KempsMama View Post
I didn't say that VII DID relieved of us weekly confession. I said MODERNISTS BELIEVE it did.

I didn't state my own personal beliefs, nor did I quote VII. Please don't attack my post without reading what I said.
I'm sorry that you think I was attacking you, but I wasn't at all. I just don't understand how you came to the above opinion since it IS the view of the Church, before and after VII. If you don't want to talk about it, that's fine.

XM,: mama to ds (5/08), dd (9/10) and ds (6/12) ! whale.gif :C.H.S & M.

xekomaya is offline  
#19 of 24 Old 02-12-2010, 01:31 AM
 
Tradd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xekomaya View Post
Tradd - your first post in this thread almost made my physically ill. uggh uggh uggh. The Catholic church is in such a crisis. I don't even know what to do about it except take my family to traditional Mass and try to protect them from the scandal.

I have never before this thread heard of receiving First Communion before First Confession unless a person is receiving all 3 sacraments of initiation at once. That sounds just crazy to me.

I do confess by "laundry list" but explain a little about anything that needs it - like why I missed Mass, or if a particular vice caused me to sin in another way - like pride tempting me to lie or something. The Priest does usually council in some way depending on what you confess, and it can be a LOT of advice if he thinks it is necessary
Well, laundry list only was the way I was taught - and even the former coworker who went to Confession monthly told me that at his parish and the conservative Catholic high school his sons attended (his parish seemed to be a fairly conservative NO parish, less funny business than in some places), the kids were taught laundry list - and that's how the priests did it with adults. "Bless me, Father, for I have sinned," rattle off laundry list, absolutely no counsel from priest, in fact I was told priest(s) wanted nothing more from person confessing than laundry list, absolution, penance, boom, you're done.

Too many Catholics across the country I talk/email with describe Confession going like my above description, so it seems to be at least somewhat common practice.

lady.gif
Tradd is offline  
#20 of 24 Old 02-12-2010, 11:19 AM
 
Comtessa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cagnew View Post
when the priest is in the confessional, he is there persona Christi... Christ speaks through the priest and forgives our sins.
I think this is just an issue of semantics. Absolutely, Christ speaks through the priest and forgives our sins. I just understand persona Christi to be the representation of Christ's entire Body on earth - just as Paul described it. I don't think the priest is a necessary intermediary between any single member and God - we're even told in the confessional that God has already forgiven our sins - but the priest does represent, for better or worse, the whole of the Church. Christ's body. Persona Christi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cagnew View Post
Also, I have a problem with the priest saying it doesn't matter what you did, and asking you to confess what you feel has broken your relationship with Christ. That comes dangerously close to sounding like moral relativism or something. The fact is, not all sins are the same, and not all sins hold the same weight. It really isn't up to *you* to decide what is bad and what is not- there are mortal sins and venial sins. While there is some room for personal knowledge (a sin isn't mortal for a person unless they know it is mortal), it doesn't change that what action is mortal sin and what is not. Using birth control is considered a mortal sin. Even if some people do not realize that, it is still a mortal sin, although their culpibility (sp) is lessened due to lack of knowledge.
The priest didn't say it didn't matter what I did. He said he didn't need me to rattle off a laundry list of every sin I'd committed since I'd last gone to confession in the third grade. And he said that the sins I most needed to confess were the ones that had broken my relationship with God. In a spiritually mature person, we can hope that it is the most serious sins that do have that effect. The priest was simply assuming that I was a mature adult who knew the difference between a "mortal" and a "venial" sin, and telling me that the ones I was carrying around with me were the ones I should confess. That is in no way moral relativism; it's common sense and a healthy dose of respect for the person receiving the sacrament.

As for the objective quality of mortal sin - I'm not going to argue with you about whether birth control is or is not a sin, as that's been exhaustively quarreled over on another thread. But I will say that my husband and I have made the choice to use birth control with full knowledge about Church teaching on the subject. We have made that choice after prayerful and careful discernment together. I happen to believe that Church teaching can be misguided in some cases, and this is one of them. I am aware that this is not the prevailing view of Church teaching, but it is mine. Do Army chaplains encourage soldiers to go to confession daily to purge themselves of the sin of participation in an unjust war? Of course not - because the chaplains recognize that those soldiers do not believe they are committing grave sin by their participation in war. To ask them to confess it would be ridiculous. Just because I believe that they are committing mortal sin doesn't mean that they do. And it's ultimately their consciences on the line. Mortal sin is only as objective as the person who commits it.

Furthermore, I think it's a bit absurd to confess a "sin" that you have no intention of renouncing. Better to spend the time in the confessional addressing the sins that you commit with full knowledge and consent, knowing they are sins, and regretting them. Full absolution does require a contrite heart, after all.

I'm traveling the world with my kids without ever leaving home and blogging about it -- watch, taste, and share our adventures at TheGlobalStayCation.com!
Comtessa is offline  
#21 of 24 Old 02-12-2010, 11:41 AM
 
KempsMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xekomaya View Post
I'm sorry that you think I was attacking you, but I wasn't at all. I just don't understand how you came to the above opinion since it IS the view of the Church, before and after VII. If you don't want to talk about it, that's fine.
I'm not talking about the view of the CHURCH. I'm talking about the view of lay people, and those that help to counsel and form the faith of others. Not the Church herself.

Heathyr hang.gifBlessed Catholic Wife to DHwheelchair.gif Devoted Mama to DS1 biglaugh.gif(3/17/08) and DS2blowkiss.gif (8/5/2010)familybed1.gifcd.giflactivist.gifribboncesarean.gifx2 
KempsMama is offline  
#22 of 24 Old 02-12-2010, 12:21 PM
 
JollyGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post
But the times it is available are extremely inconvenient. I think it's a catch 22. Few people understand or appreciate the value of this sacrament. So it's offered rarely. (And of course a priest shortage/overworked priests adds to this). But then it also means people who want to go, can't.

So my attendance spikes around Lent and Advent, b/c that is when parishes start offering evening and weekday confessions.
This.

I am one of those Catholics who has fallen into the habit of being very lax about confession. In my adulthood there have been a 4 year period and an 8 year period where I have not attended confession. My son is in second grade and just did his first reconciliation. I am trying to get in the habit of going both to provide a better example to my son and to improve my own spiritual life. I work full time and the only confession times at my church are 4 in the afternoon M-Sat. M-F I'm still at work. Saturday at the offered time I'm in the middle of running my kids around town to their events.

As one who was lax in going to confession I can say that some contributing factors are bad past experiences (though there are plenty of good too), laziness, dreading the experience once you've gone so long. But mostly it's about habits. Once you get out of the habit of going it gets easy to stay out of the habit.

Mom to DS 4/24/03 and DD 4/17/06
JollyGG is online now  
#23 of 24 Old 02-12-2010, 07:17 PM
 
BMG580's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,176
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd View Post

Too many Catholics across the country I talk/email with describe Confession going like my above description, so it seems to be at least somewhat common practice.
That's odd that that is the sum total of your Catholic friend's experience with Confession. I have been Catholic less than a year and have confessed with various priests at three different parishes within the months that I have been Catholic and not one of them wanted a laundry list from me and they all gave council on various sins that I confessed. In fact the last time I went I ended up taking all three of my children with me (never again! and I had nothing "exciting" to confess so it wasn't inappropriate, I considered it a teachable moment for my 4 year old ) and even feeling overextended with all three of them there fidgeting and being loud, the priest STILL took the time to offer council.

The parish I participated in RCIA in did teach that confession is necessary prior to receiving communion if a mortal sin has been committed with every month being suggested otherwise to take care of venial sin. I can't tell you how many homilies I've heard in the last couple years that directly deal with the necessity of confession, the topic is especially discussed during pentitential seasons.

"Hey, I've got nothin' to do today but smile." - S & G
BMG580 is offline  
#24 of 24 Old 02-12-2010, 07:25 PM
 
moonshoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just thought I would throw in that our first communicants must receive First Reconciliation before their First Communion. (We are not a Trad church)

Catherinepraying.gif traditional Catholic mama to bikenew.gifjammin.gifdiaper.gif wife to an amazing man.selectivevax.gifnocirc.giffamilybed1.gif

moonshoes is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off