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#1 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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A friend & I were discussing this yesterday-she is a 'Christian " in that she believes Jesus died for her sins .
I was raised Luthern & became Catholic in 1997.

I also believe that Jesus died for our sins,( I also believe in reincarnation,that Jesus had past lives but was the Son of God-learned about this from Edgar Cayce stuff mostly---Jesus was born of Virgin Mary-suffered ,died & rose again)
Since I do believe Jesus died for my sins ,am I a Christian???

Sorry if this is confusing to some .

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#2 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 06:07 PM
 
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It is my understanding that all religions that encompass Christ as savior is Christian.
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#3 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 06:10 PM
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Are Catholics considered Christian???

Dunno if they are 'considered Christian' but they self id as Catholic and as I understand it, prefer it to stay that way, thank you very much!

Any religion where one is encouraged to pray to dead people isn't Christian in my holy book. Including Catholicism and it's santas...Bible forbades contacting the dead.
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#4 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 06:12 PM
 
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Yes, Catholics are Christians.
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#5 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 06:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by playdoh
Are Catholics considered Christian???

Dunno if they are 'considered Christian' but they self id as Catholic and as I understand it, prefer it to stay that way, thank you very much!

Any religion where one is encouraged to pray to dead people isn't Christian in my holy book. Including Catholicism and it's santas...Bible forbades contacting the dead.
This comment is ignorant and self-righteous. Yes of course Catholics are Christians. All others are called PRODESTANT religions, but are also Christians.
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#6 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 06:21 PM
 
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Interesting questions! I'd never thought about it this way. I was raised catholic, left and followed non-denominational christianity for a while.

My first reaction was of course catholics are christian, due to belief in jesus christ as savior. But at the same time they are separated from christians...like they [i]usually[i] aren't lumped in with all other denominations of christianity, when referring to christians. But I do think you are christian, if you're catholic.
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#7 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 06:22 PM
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I am not ignorant, nor self righteous in this area.

Website removed!



In many areas of Catholicism, there is no Biblical basis for the practices. Does the Bible encourage bowing down or kissing statues? How about praying to saints? Or that Mary was a Virgin for life?
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#8 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 06:32 PM
 
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Well in the US I've noticed that Christian usually means fundamental bible thumping, etc. people. Not being like that at all, I say Catholic, not Christian if I'm asked.
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#9 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 06:37 PM
 
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Wow, playdoh, that website is kind of---wack!

Not sure it is respectful to post it, except as a curiosity, as I posted the Jack Chick one. I mean, the skulls and crossbones are a bit over the top.

The leaders of the Catholic Church have commited atrocities, it is true. Many in the long past. Fewer in modern times.

but as the Cath Ch defined Xtianity from 325 til Martin Luther invented Protestantism, I think we owe it to them to call them Xtians. Even if their actions often went against Bible teachings. After all, they admit to being sinners. They made mistakes. Protestants have too.
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#10 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 06:38 PM
 
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Playdough, that website you posted is inflammatory with its use of crossbones on either side of it's title. You may not agree with Catholicism but it is not evil and deadly. Christianity is a broader term than Catholicism and it encompasses Protestants, Catholics, and many other groups.
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#11 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 06:39 PM
 
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Someone(s) need to reread their European history.

Protestant relgions, aka Christian, broke off from Roman Catholic Christianity. They did not at that moment Become Christian, having been something else before. Through most of the Middle Ages, in Europe, one didn't say one was Catholic as there was no need. Roman Catholicsm was the only game in town. If you were Christian, that automatically meant you were Catholic. All other attempts at other forms of Christianity before the Reformation (again in Europe) were violently put down.

There were other churches even then: Coptic, Eastern Orthodox..., but I'm only talking about Europe here.

Now-a-days, Catholics say the are Catholic as a way to specify which of the many forms of Christian they are.

All Catholics are Christian, but all Christians are not Catholic.

Just because the RC church has doctrines that some think are not in the Bible, though growing up we certainly learned all those doctrines With their Biblical justification, does not make them not Christian.

"What will you do once you know?"
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#12 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 06:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by playdoh
I am not ignorant, nor self righteous in this area. Here is a good website that shows why the Catholic traditions violate the Christian Bible:

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/cath.htm

Just to clarify I didn't say you were, I said the comment was. Please do your research before you make comments as you did. You are apparently not catholic, nor do you have any knowledge of the catholic religion.
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#13 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 06:47 PM
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Oh, I totally agree, otbonmom, Catholicism is not evil nor deadly.
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#14 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 06:54 PM
 
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I just thought I'd add, if I want to learn about a religion--like if it's Christian or not--I would go to a website from that particular religious organization, not one by those who are out to denigrate, insult, belittle, etc, it.

If I wanted to learn about Judaism, I'd look for a Jewish website rather than a Palestinian, or any other potentially hostile group's website, for information.

If I wanted to learn about some denomination of Protestantism, I'd not go a Catholic website, and vice-versa.

If I wanted to learn about Rastaferianism, I'd not be going to the DEA's website either!:LOL

If I wanted to learn about some form of neo-Paganism, I'd not be searching any form of Christianity's websites, and vice-versa.

....enough examples?

"What will you do once you know?"
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#15 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 06:57 PM
 
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playdoh, look around that website. Check out the homepage. It is hilarious. Actually it reminds me of the pastor of my church growing up, which is why I ran screaming from xtianity for about 30 yrs.


Are you pulling our leg(s) or what, dude?
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#16 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 06:59 PM
 
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Here is a fun tidbit--

She provides links to pages on:

Quote:
WICCA WITCHCRAFT, THE NEW AGE, BUDDHISM, HINDUISM AND OTHER PAGANISTIC MUMBO-JUMBO: Series of articles on the paganism and eastern mysticism so pervasive world-wide --including the Hebrew Roots Movement, Masonry, etc. Learn that modern Judaism is not Biblical Judaism--modern Judaism is based on the blasphemous Talmud which is the "traditions of men" that King Jesus spoke against.


And this:

Quote:
The Antichrist Slideshow

Starring: The Popes of Rome

and

The Great Whore of Revelation Chapter 17

The Roman Catholic Religion

Admission is free. Turn on your speakers and cut off the lights for a multimedia experience. Enter when you've gotten yourself situated and can spend some time. This is not a 5 minute presentation. Hellbounds, be prepared to confront the truth. A horrific tale of--

Blasphemy
Torture
Licentiousness
Cruelty
Damnation
Whoredom
The power of the Devil
The foolishness of men who are his dupes
The heroicism of Christian brothers and sisters who resisted to the BLOOD striving against sin. Hallelujah!

Enter The Antichrist Slideshow
Gotta make time for that! :

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#17 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 07:02 PM
 
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poor jazmommie--this discussion is not meeting her question.

I think that you believing that Jesus (as God) died for your sins makes you a plain Christian--as if there were a such thing. Now, as for what denomination you would feel at home with; you would need to look at the theology of each sect...
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#18 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 07:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Meiri
If I wanted to learn about Rastaferianism, I'd not be going to the DEA's websiteeither!
:LOL

by any reasonable definition, catholics are christians. there are lots of c'ian denominations who refuse to accept this - eg the Bob Jones folks courted by the current president - but imo such a position is untenable.
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#19 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 07:12 PM
 
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Yes. Catholics are Christians. Always have been, always will be. Some other Christians who obsess over the faith vs works debate tend to claim that because Catholics differ with them on that issue they are not Christians. It is a petty way to behave toward fellow follwers of Christ.
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#20 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 07:19 PM
 
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I don't believe going to anyone church or identifying with one specific denomination makes you a Christian at all. Both Protestants and Catholics are saved only by the grace of Christ. Anyrthing we claim as part of the way choose to worship Christ and wether or not it is cool with Him is up to Him. OI do think we need to be careful when we venture outside of the Bible for our theology.

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#21 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 07:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by lilyka
. Anyrthing we claim as part of the way choose to worship Christ and wether or not it is cool with Him is up to Him. .
What are you saying lilyka? Only Christ knows if you are a Christian? So if you worship him in the "wrong" way, you can't say, I am a Christian?

Are you a Christian then? Are you sure? Has he already told you you are, or will you find out at the judgement?

I just do not understand your reasoning.
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#22 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 07:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by lilyka
I do think we need to be careful when we venture outside of the Bible for our theology.
we just had the sola scriptura discussion in the other thread.
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#23 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for the replies to the question I asked --wow ,I did not mean to start a riot!

I liked Meiri 's reply-All Catholics are Christian but not all Christians are Catholic!
Cool!

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#24 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 08:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amazlilith
All others are called PRODESTANT religions, but are also Christians.
Quote:
Meiri said:Protestant religions, aka Christian, broke off from Roman Catholic Christianity. They did not at that moment Become Christian, having been something else before. Through most of the Middle Ages, in Europe, one didn't say one was Catholic as there was no need. Roman Catholicsm was the only game in town. If you were Christian, that automatically meant you were Catholic. All other attempts at other forms of Christianity before the Reformation (again in Europe) were violently put down.
T Stepping in here for a moment, just because it's a personal issue for me, so I always feel compelled when this issue comes up:

It is inaccurate to say that all non-Catholic Christian denominations are Protestant. There have been Christian groups since the time of Christ who never identified with Catholicism. Yes, they were often persecuted, and had to go into hiding, worship in caves and so forth, but they never died out completely. Not even in Europe during the Middle Ages. The denomination to which I belong (currently called Primitive Baptist, but known by other names in times past) is one that traces our roots through these groups of Christians. Because we were never part of the Catholic church, we never "protested" (split apart from) the Catholic church. Thus, we cannot be considered Protestant.

That said, I totally agree with Meiri's other statement: "All Catholics are Christian, but all Christians are not Catholic." I would simply add to it by stating "Not all Christians can automatically be categorized as Catholic or Protestant."

Okay, sorry for the interruption! Thanks for humoring me!

Sarah, Queen of Hearts, raising a Full House with Michael, King of my Heart!
DS (2/02), DD (3/04), DS (1/06), DD (12/07), and DS (3/10)
~~*~~Not your typical Pastor's Wife!~~*~~
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#25 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 10:06 PM
 
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SheBear,- thianks for pointing that out. I have always figured there had to be some people who went from early church to present without ever associating with the Catholic church. i have only studied church history from the right before the reformation forward but I have always felt there was a big Gap between the new testement church and the catholic church. I should definitely study more into that.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#26 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 10:08 PM
 
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I agree that there may have been small groups that were never RC and thus would not be Protestants that could have survived in Europe. Not having particularly researched it to that level of detail, I couldn't tell you what ever happened to the Albegensians and such.

I did acknowledge two of the other groups that I have half a clue about: the Coptics were/are mostly in Egypt I think, the Eastern Orthodox--I forget when they and the RC split apart, but they weren't a small sect leaving the large group, semantics maybe?


"What will you do once you know?"
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#27 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 10:13 PM
 
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Sure there are other Xtianities. Some survived in one form or another. As Sean said, they sprouted up like gnostic heretic weeds in 1-100 CE!

You can find a discussion of gnostic traces in books like Holy Blood Holy Grail and The da Vinci Code, to name 2 popular books.

I do not know if SheBear's sect is gnostic tho. She doesn't talk like a gnostic.


Interestingly, there is a small group of Mandeans in Iraq. They have always accepted John the Baptist as a prophet but reject Christ. they baptize daily or weekly.
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#28 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 11:01 PM
 
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Are Catholics Christian? Hmm. Most of the ones I know are. Are Protestants/non-Catholics/non-Orthodoxs christian? Most of the ones I know are. I also know some of each flavor that aren't. They go to church, they go through the motions, but they are no more a Christian than I am a car just when I'm sitting in my garage.

By the way, none of the Catholics I know worship saints nor statues. But then again none of the ones I know are sola scriptura either. That's just not a Catholic thing. If you are going to look at Catholic practices you have to keep that in mind or else you are not going to be able to really understand it. Keeping that in mind might also keep you from insulting people.
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#29 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 11:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by playdoh
I am not ignorant, nor self righteous in this area.

Website removed!



In many areas of Catholicism, there is no Biblical basis for the practices. Does the Bible encourage bowing down or kissing statues? How about praying to saints? Or that Mary was a Virgin for life?
Sorry this is OT but is a pet peeve of mine. Um. . . this website claims the Catholic Church killed millions in the Inquisition. Just stepping into clarify something historically here.

There were only 100,000 tried in the Spanish Inquisition and of those only 2,000 were killed. The two thousand that were killed were tried by the Church but handed over to the state to receive sentance. So really the Spanish government killed 2,000 people in the Spanish Inquisition. This is one of the gross historical inaccuarcies that drives me nuts.
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#30 of 116 Old 03-03-2004, 11:20 PM
 
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I think there are many Christian Catholics, just as there are many Christian Protestants. Since I define "Christian" as one who believes Jesus is Messiah and trusts in Him for thier Salvation, that covers a lot of people in a lot of denominations.

OTOH, I do think a lot of Catholic stuff is unBiblical...and that's why I'm not one. But my parents are Catholic, and I know without a doubt that they are believers, and I really respect them for it!

And on the subject of religions torturing and killing others...well, actually, Protestants have that in thier history as well. I have a Catholic ancestor, John "Staker" Wallace (yes, that's what they called him posthumously! ) who was burned at the stake by the Protestant leadership in his town in Scotland. I have an Anabaptist ancestor who was persecuted and driven out of Switzerland by Catholics. There was even an unfortunate episode where a sect of Anabaptists (forbears of the Mennonites and Amish) led by a wacko overtook Munich and did the rape and plunder thing. Ugh. It's called sin, and nobody's immune from it, I don't care what church they're in.
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