The "Rapture" - Mothering Forums

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Old 01-27-2011, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My MIL is a firm believer in the Rapture, she states that when Christ returns all believers will just *poof* disappear to be with him leaving behind a pile of clothes where they previously existed.  She would tell her boys that one day Jesus would return and they would disappear leaving behind their pajamas and that their dogs would also disappear leaving behind their dog collars.  To better understand where she is coming from I have been trying to learn more about this concept.  After doing some reading I have determined she believes in a pre-tribulation rapture and pre-millenialism.

 

To be honest this is all still very confusing to me.  I watched a history channel show on this a while ago and if memory serves me well they said the current understanding of the rapture was not taught/preached until the 1800s.  The show stated that this new concept began with a vision by an Irish girl which was then popularized by Scofield and his reference bible.  It also made it seem as if this concept is mainly preached in the US.

 

I am very curious what percentage of Christians believe in the concept of the Rapture.  Does anyone know where to find this information?  Is it an across the board mainstream Christian belief?  Which denominations believe in a literal rapture?  Is this a requirement in some churches?

 

If you believe or don't believe in the rapture I would love to hear why.  Please include how you classify yourself as a Christian.  For those of you who do believe in the rapture what are your thoughts on this not being taught until the 1800s?  That is quite a long time to me and seems like a new doctrine to me.  Do you believe the concept was just overlooked for almost 2000 years?

 

Almost forgot, do you believe in pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation or post-tribulation rapture?

 

I look forward to learning more and how others see this concept.  :)

 

SJ

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Old 01-27-2011, 05:40 PM
 
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Roman Catholic theology does not include Rapture teaching/beliefs.

 

Rapture theology typically comes from loosely interpreted excerpts of Revelation, which is a book that should really not be taken literally and is difficult at best to try and understand/interpret.


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Old 01-28-2011, 06:34 AM
 
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From my understanding, the Rapture comes from 1 Thessalonians 4:17 which says that whoever is still alive when Jesus comes again will be caught up in the clouds to meet Him.  I think - and I could be wrong - that most people who believe in the Rapture are pre-tribulationists and pre-millennialists, which is based on a certain interpretation of Revelation, like Trigger said.  I find the whole thing rather confusing myself.

 

In any case, the early Church declared the concept that Christ will come and have a kingdom on earth for a literal 1000 years to be a heresy back in the third or fourth century.  They added the words "whose kingdom shall have no end" to the Nicene creed specifically to deny this teaching.

 

Needless to say, I don't believe in the Rapture.  (I'm officially becoming a catechumen in the Orthodox Church this Sunday.)

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Old 01-28-2011, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for both replies.  I hope to hear from more of you out there!

 

PupleSage,

Can you explain this a little more 

 

 

Quote:
the early Church declared the concept that Christ will come and have a kingdom on earth for a literal 1000 years to be a heresy back in the third or fourth century.  They added the words "whose kingdom shall have no end" to the Nicene creed specifically to deny this teaching.

Thanks!  

 

SJ

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Old 01-28-2011, 11:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissSJ View Post

Thanks for both replies.  I hope to hear from more of you out there!

 

PupleSage,

Can you explain this a little more 

 

 

Quote:
the early Church declared the concept that Christ will come and have a kingdom on earth for a literal 1000 years to be a heresy back in the third or fourth century.  They added the words "whose kingdom shall have no end" to the Nicene creed specifically to deny this teaching.

Thanks!  

 

SJ



Honestly, I don't know very much about it.  The phrase (or similar wording) was added at a couple of councils in 341 and 381, I think, to combat heresies regarding the nature of Christ.  I don't think it's specifically spelled out as a response to millennialism (chiliasm), but it seems to be agreed by the Orthodox that this was the case.  Apparently some very early fathers believed in a literal 1000 year reign, which I think had to do with some earlier Jewish tradition, or maybe something to do with modalism? I don't know.  Anyway, chiliasm has not been taught or believed in the Orthodox Church since then (not that it was ever officially taught! just that it was believed by some), and other fathers have written specifically against it.  Of course, I'm no expert, but this is my understanding.

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Old 01-30-2011, 09:08 PM
 
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I do not believe in the rapture because it is not something that was taught until fairly recently.  You can generally find a verse to support anything you want so it doesn't surprise me people wrap verses around it.  But I do not feel that it is supported by scripture and it is certainly not supported by the early church.  I am pretty sure it is a strictly protestant doctrine.


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Old 02-03-2011, 09:04 AM
 
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I could be classified as a "fundamentalist", in that I believe in the fundamentals of the Protestant faith.

 

I do not believe in "the Rapture" as described in the OP or touted by such things as the "Left Behind" series. I do believe Jesus will return again, and that the dead will be resurrected and the living "caught up" with him, but frankly I have no idea what exactly that will look like.

 

Frankly it is confusing to a great number of Christians, self included.  lol.gif   To me it is part and parcel with the hype and fear-mongering of "The End Times" and I'm simply uninterested in all that.  The world will end when it ends, on God's timing, and in his way.  I'm happy to let him be in charge of that.

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Old 02-03-2011, 03:50 PM
 
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I wanted to add, that I do expect the resurrection of the dead and do not consider this having anything to do with popular beliefs about the rapture.


The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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Old 02-03-2011, 06:21 PM
 
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I am a Christian, probably rather fundamentalist in some respects.

I don't believe that the rapture concept as set forth by the Left  Behind series of books is completely accurate.

It is my understanding that, according to the Bible, there will be two "raptures" - that of the "firstfruits" who are the matured Christians who will be taken before the great tribulation - that is what is referred to in Matt. and Luke - two will be in the field and one is taken and one is left and two at the mill together and one is taken and one is left.  I know that many Christians interpret that as the believer is taken and the unbeliever left, but because they are working together, both are believers.  It is those who have oil in their lamps - enough spiritual growth - who will be taken as the firstfruits. That will be a small number.  The rest of the Christians will go through the first 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation and then they too, will be raptured.  How that will happen, I really don't know.  Zapped away with a pile of clothing left I doubt, but I suppose anything is possible. 

Anyway, that is what I have been taught.  The idea is that we should all pursue the Lord with all of our hearts and strive to grow in Him and seek Him always and not be caught up in the things of the world.

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Old 03-09-2011, 12:35 AM
 
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Yes, that belief was based upon a young girl's dream (nightmare?) and taught by Darby in the 1830's. It is based loosely (IMO) on some scriptures from Daniel and 1 Thess. I personally have friends (who remain Christian) who were very harmed and scared by this teaching as children (i.e., they'd come home to find the house empty and think they'd been "left behind") and I think it's a scary thing to teach kids that they're going to just *poof* disappear. I'm Christian (Nazarene) and was raised amillienialist, which I remain. Basically I believe that we've been in the "End Times" since Jesus returned to Heaven and that most of the "end times" prophecies were fulfilled in the destruction of the Temple in AD70. 


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Old 03-11-2011, 02:40 PM
 
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This is the first I've heard in my entire life where the concept of the Rapture came from! I was raised Catholic but in my teens my cousin took me to a fundamentalist church. During this time and for years afterwards my siblings and parents and I also began attending various Protestant churches, more generally evangelical, Assemblies of God, independent, baptist, etc. Nearly all of them believed in the Rapture. I don't remember specifically reading the Left Behind books but what I read were along the same lines. I, too, was scared (and scarred!) by all of this and far from being a comfort to me, I was filled with dread that family and friends weren't going to be "taken up" as I was. During certain times I was even afraid that I would be left behind, too. These days I don't believe anymore that the Rapture is biblical but now to find out that it's a very recent concept stemming from a young girl's dream? *shakes head* As far as in what stage the Rapture would occur regarding the tribulation, that had always confused me and the fact that there is such a wide variety of interpretations throughout the various Protestant denominations didn't help.

 

I have recently embraced the Catholic Church again and am comforted to know that it is not taught within the Church.

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Old 03-25-2011, 08:49 PM
 
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I am a confessional Lutheran (LCMS) and do not believe in "the rapture".  However, I know a bit about the millenialist concepts.

 

Pre-millenialism is what I assume your grandmother is; it is the teaching that has broken into pop-Christianity in America.  (By that I simply mean the popular mainstream teachings of our culture.)  It basically teaches that there will be a rapture where either the Strong Christians are caught up in the air at Christ's return, leaving the weaker Christians and pagans behind OR that all Christians will be caught up with Christ leaving only unbelievers behind.  After the rapture will follow a tribulation (usually seven years) at which time the anti-Christ will reign on Earth and many tragedies and disasters will take place, culminating with the final return of Christ and a literal 1,000 year reign on Earth.  This teaching is also closely associated with theology on Israel's political state concerning the end times.

 

Post-millenialism is a teaching that has largely died out, though it was popular in the middle of the 20th century.  This theology (also popular among protestants in its time) professed that we were working toward a 1,000 year reign on Earth.  Basically that God was going to continue to sanctify His Church and the world until it was in a state "worthy" of God's political rule over it.  This was driven by the soft-eugenics of the time and the belief that the advances in science and medicine were going to solve all the world's problems, and also the ideology that WWI was the "war to end all wars".  Obviously, none of that came to pass and the theology fell out of mainstream.

 

The longstanding stance of Christianity from ancient times has not fallen into either of these categories.  The majority of Christians over the ages have been in agreement that this is not how Scripture is to be interpreted on this issue.  The Bible does talk of Believers being "caught up in the air" to be with Christ when He comes again.  Although this literally could be called a rapture, it is not an event that precedes a tribulation or some other political reign on Earth.  This can be thought of as the first event in a series of events IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING that culminate in the destruction of God's enemies, the glorification of God's people and the creation of a new heaven and a new Earth.

 

Is there to be a tribulation in the end times?  Yes, but the tribulation precedes the rapture, not the other way around.  A proper interpretation of Revelation and the Bible will reveal that we are now in the End Times and have been since the first Pentecost recorded in the book of Acts.  Indeed ever since Christ's resurrection we have been in the Last Days and the End Times.  We are now in the tribulation.

 

Although the Anti-Christ may be personified more in one particular person, organization or office, really the spirit of Anti-Christ has been around ever since the beginning of the end times, that is for thousands of years now.  This "spirit" of Anti-Christ really just means any one or anything that claims to be Christ or speak for Him in any way that Christ Himself has not commanded.  The confessions of the Lutheran Church teach that the Antichrist spoken of in Scripture is personified most clearly in the office of the Pope.  Although many Lutherans do not hold steadfastly to this teaching, there is a good amount of contextual Biblical evidence in Revelation and historical evidence to back up this claim.

 

The Christian Church unanimously confesses that there will be a literal resurrection of the dead at Christ's return, and this will include all people, believers and unbelievers alike.

 

Two of the most severe problems I see with the contemporary view of the rapture and the end times are these:

 

1. With the focus on a political kingdom and the state of the country of Israel in heralding Christ's return, there is some belief that there will be some separate plan of salvation for the Jewish people as they were God's chosen race.  However, Scripture clearly teaches that Jesus is the only way for salvation and there is no other.  The new Israel is not a political state but is the Church; believers in Christ are to receive Israel's inheritance.  A different "path of salvation" for unbelieving Jews goes directly against the Christian teaching that Jesus is the only Way.

 

2. For those who believe that only an elite level of Christians will be taken up in the rapture, this is dangerous because it causes division in the Church where there should not be any.  It causes fear and confusion rather than providing comfort in salvation, and it causes us to focus inward on ourselves and our own works rather than focusing on Christ and His perfect life, death and resurrection.  Jesus is the center of the faith and the contemporary views of the End Times that are now popular take Christ and His saving work out of the center, which is a dangerous precedent.

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Old 03-30-2011, 11:57 AM
 
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I was raised Presbyterian, and honestly, I do not ever remember hearing about the rapture. Honestly, the only "teaching" I vaguely recall regarding any of it was on Easter Sunday it was always mentioned how Christ would come again. Eschatology was not a big topic of discussion--although I'm betting that plenty of people read "The Left Behind" books and may have believed the views put forth. I seem to remember that one of the authors used to (or maybe still does) be affiliated with Moody Bible Institute.

I believe "official" teachings in Presbyterian circles are postmillenial.

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Old 03-30-2011, 08:12 PM
 
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I haven't read all of the replies, but I was raised in a First Baptist church and we were taught about the Rapture.  I believe in pre-tribulation rapture.  I find Revelation in general to be open to a variety of explanation, but the rapture has been at the core of my beliefs since childhood.  It's probably something I need to revisit.


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Old 03-31-2011, 10:24 AM
 
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I was brought up by fundamentalist xtians, Church of the Nazarene specifically.. they did teach the very scary Rapture. We also had to sing some pretty scary hymns/songs in the youth choir about being "left behind" if we didn't tow the Jesus line.

Whew. Can you tell I'm glad to be outta there?!
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Old 03-31-2011, 01:53 PM
 
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Interesting, I'm Nazarene now (was raised Lutheran) and they don't have an official end-times stance denominationally, so I think it depends on the pastor and local church culture a lot. However, I'm amillenialist and I find many of my fellow churchgoers have a pre-mil leaning, either from their previous churches or "pop Christianity" and are unfamiliar with other POVs. I'm in charge of the music, so no scary "left-behind" songs here! ;) I do think that it's a harmful teaching, especially to kids, very much fear-based instead of hopeful. 

 

A book I've really enjoyed is called The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Rapture-Exposed-Message-Hope-Revelation/dp/0813343143/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1301601128&sr=1 (Sorry, not sure how do embedded links in this new format.)

 

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Old 03-31-2011, 03:16 PM
 
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I was raised in evangelical circles that were pre-millenial rapture. My parents diverged from this through study when I was a teenager, despite our church and most friends being pre-millenial. We watched those horrid 70's movies "A Thief in the Night" a "Distant Thunder", etc...anyone seen those? A friend got "saved" because of those movies, because of fear of being "left behind".

 

So I have been an amillenialist since then. I find pre-trib causes some flippancy in the body of Christ, "well, Jesus might come back tomorrow...", and instill fear to "get people saved" before then. To them the gospel is "be saved from hell". I do still believe in an ultimate resurrection of the dead, but I think so many are taught to look for the "second coming" of Christ rather than to start rejoicing in His first coming and living in the Kingdom of God. Tthe Kingdom of God has come in power and glory already (Luke 9:27 fulfilled in Acts 2), and yes it extends into an eternal Kingdom. I may never have eschatology figured out. The gospel isn't "turn or burn" or "be left behind", it's Matthew 5:3, Matthew 11:28, Luke 19:10, Matthew 13:31-32, Matthew 13:44-45, Romans 10:13, Matthew 25:31-46, etc.

 

 


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Old 03-31-2011, 03:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolelynn View Post

I was raised in evangelical circles that were pre-millenial rapture. My parents diverged from this through study when I was a teenager, despite our church and most friends being pre-millenial. We watched those horrid 70's movies "A Thief in the Night" a "Distant Thunder", etc...anyone seen those? A friend got "saved" because of those movies, because of fear of being "left behind".

 



Found it on You Tube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxBLV0EUCUw

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Old 03-31-2011, 03:41 PM
 
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I am what I guess could be called a very traditional Anglican.  I do not believe in the rapture, nor any of the pre-post or mid tribulation stuff.  As far as I am concerned, it is an invention and does not reflect anything the Church has ever taught.

 

Also, as far as I know, there are no Christian dogs, and even those who believe this sort of thing generally don't think it includes dogs.  There is actually insurance you can buy to take care of your pets in the event you are raptured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissSJ View Post

My MIL is a firm believer in the Rapture, she states that when Christ returns all believers will just *poof* disappear to be with him leaving behind a pile of clothes where they previously existed.  She would tell her boys that one day Jesus would return and they would disappear leaving behind their pajamas and that their dogs would also disappear leaving behind their dog collars.  To better understand where she is coming from I have been trying to learn more about this concept.  After doing some reading I have determined she believes in a pre-tribulation rapture and pre-millenialism.

 

To be honest this is all still very confusing to me.  I watched a history channel show on this a while ago and if memory serves me well they said the current understanding of the rapture was not taught/preached until the 1800s.  The show stated that this new concept began with a vision by an Irish girl which was then popularized by Scofield and his reference bible.  It also made it seem as if this concept is mainly preached in the US.

 

I am very curious what percentage of Christians believe in the concept of the Rapture.  Does anyone know where to find this information?  Is it an across the board mainstream Christian belief?  Which denominations believe in a literal rapture?  Is this a requirement in some churches?

 

If you believe or don't believe in the rapture I would love to hear why.  Please include how you classify yourself as a Christian.  For those of you who do believe in the rapture what are your thoughts on this not being taught until the 1800s?  That is quite a long time to me and seems like a new doctrine to me.  Do you believe the concept was just overlooked for almost 2000 years?

 

Almost forgot, do you believe in pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation or post-tribulation rapture?

 

I look forward to learning more and how others see this concept.  :)

 

SJ



 


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Old 03-31-2011, 07:30 PM
 
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Found the distant thunder on You Tube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxBLV0EUCUw
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Old 05-20-2011, 09:13 AM
 
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In all the rapture hullabaloo going around today I found this.  I thought it was a nice overview of where rapture theology came from...interesting.

 

http://preachersinstitute.com/2011/05/20/rapture-theologys-ominous-origins/


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Old 02-22-2012, 07:59 AM
 
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I am a "non-denominational" Christian. I absolutely believe that there will be a rapture, it is supported by the 1 thes. vrs that was mentioned in this thread. However I do not believe in the pre-trib views. It just does not make sense to me, that God would take all the believers away in a time of great tribulation and testing, to leave the rest of the world to figure this thing out for themselves, with a few new believers, or baby christians to lead them, and teach them.... I know most ppl who support the pre-trib rapture view cant fathom God leaving His ppl here to suffer through the tribulation. But I believe we will be protected from the natural disasters that are going to take place. Because as His children, we recieve His dislipine and not His wrath. However, the church will undergo tremendous presecution, which, in all honesty, God has always allowed his followers, and even His own son, to go through.....So basically, I personally support either a mid- or end- trib rapture. Rev. 14:14-19 speaks of the harvesting of the earth, that could very well be the ref. for the rapture. Honestly there's no telling when it will happen. Its not for us to know, or be worried about. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Everyone has their own views and beliefs, and sometimes we have to agree to disagree. Your beliefs on this matter will not save you or damn you, its not a maker or breaker. So research for yourself, and see what makes the most sense to you. Best of luck


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Old 04-11-2014, 11:19 AM
 
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Actually, it will be just the opposite...there is no Rapture

 

(Proverbs 2:21, 22) For only the upright will reside in the earth, And the blameless will remain in it. 22 As for the wicked, they will be cut off from the earth, And the treacherous will be torn away from it.

Psalm 37:10-11

New King James Version (NKJV)

10 For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more;
Indeed, you will look carefully for his place,
But it shall be no more.
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth,
And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

 

 

 

Psalm 37:29
The upright will have the earth for their heritage, and will go on living there forever.
Read Psalm 37 BBE  |  Read Psalm 37:29 BBE in parallel  

 

I will be happy to explain more even tho this post is a couple years old..

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