Can anyone explain to me why the LDS/Mormons continue to baptize the dead??? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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Old 04-13-2004, 03:26 PM
 
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Originally posted by ldsmama
I don't understand why all the broo ha ha (sp?) about which thread this is under.
It's the forum, and it is because the rules in spirituality don't allow for some of this discussion.
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Old 04-13-2004, 03:32 PM
 
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Hi Zaq001. Good to see you again. :-)
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Old 04-13-2004, 04:53 PM
 
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Perhaps you have LDS relatives lurking around
LOL, I do......just not on that side of the family unless they are in Holland. Maybe the other side of the family submitted my moms maiden name or something, who knows. LOL

At first when I read this I could understand how it would come off as disrespectful to some. The more I think about it though, does it really matter? Even if someone submitted my name when I died, it wouldnt really matter because I believe that a baptism is an outward symbol of a complete unconditional dedication through Jesus Christ to do the will of God, so no one could do that for me, it would have to be MY personal dedication, and obviously when I am dead I cant do that.

It is sort of like this: once a friend of mines mother submitted my name to some Catholic saint to be prayed for because of my fertility issues.......now at first I thought "oh sheesh, lovely" but then I thought "does it really matter?" I mean it has zero bearing on my life because I do not put my faith into saints or whatever so there was no point getting mad about it.

Desiree

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Old 04-13-2004, 06:08 PM
 
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Originally posted by DesireeH
...At first when I read this I could understand how it would come off as disrespectful to some. The more I think about it though, does it really matter? Even if someone submitted my name when I died, it wouldnt really matter because I believe that a baptism is an outward symbol of a complete unconditional dedication through Jesus Christ to do the will of God, so no one could do that for me, it would have to be MY personal dedication, and obviously when I am dead I cant do that....
That's fine for you. But what about others who are not okay with it and who believe it matters a great deal? For example, what gives someone the right to do a baptism by proxy on Hilary Clinton's father, Hugh Rodman?

Maybe it's because I was raised in a tradition with infant baptism (Catholic), but I do believe that there is a real possibility that rituals like these do have an effect on a soul.

If this is all so respectful and loving, why didn't someone of the Mormon faith walk up to Mr. Rodham and ask his permission while he was alive? It seems to me that it's a lot easier to violate people's privacy when they are dead and no longer able to speak for themselves.
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Old 04-13-2004, 06:11 PM
 
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moderator's note

I have received several complaints about the direction this thread has taken. I am locking it for now until we decide what exactly needs to be done about it.


after further inspection, I don't believe this to be breaking any of the rules of the religious studies forum....yet

please keep your replies to this thread respectful of others, whether you agree with them or not.

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Old 04-13-2004, 07:00 PM
 
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That's fine for you. But what about others who are not okay with it and who believe it matters a great deal?
I do see your point and I do not understand the reasoning of baptizing those who would have done so themselves if they WANTED to be, HOWEVER I am not going to get mad about it because I truly feel it means nothing.

I think this is similiar along the lines of people who tell me "I will pray for you because you are so misled" Great, go ahead......I think it means nothing and has no affect on my faith, ykwim?

Or if someone were to cast a spell over me or something......while I dont agree, it would have no bearing on my life/faith.

I think alot of things people of certain faiths do, could be considered disrespectful to others.

Desiree

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Old 04-13-2004, 08:27 PM
 
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To clarify, when I said earlier that I'd never heard of this issue or the 1995 statement, it was because I was 18 when this was issued and as it didn't affect me then or now, it hasn't been something I've taken notice of. I'm sure if I was involved in family history or anything in that capacity, it would be explained to me, because it makes sense.

I was trying to make the point that mormons in general aren't out to maliciously baptize people after being told not to. I think that it is very wrong for people to seek out information specifically on famous people so they feel wonderful for redeeming someone of esteem. That is not the purpose of the work, or the gospel, in my opinion.

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Old 04-13-2004, 08:47 PM
 
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Hillary Clinton found out that her father had been done, apparently, right? Maybe someone had done his name who was like a distant relative, who maybe should have asked, but didn't, and is LDS. KWIM? My MIL was doing her great-great grandparents name, and was excited to get them done, only to find out that they had already been done (she is a 1st generation LDS/Mormon) by a distant relative who was LDS, but they didn't know about each other.

It's sad that people don't comply with the rules, but in the end, it will all work out. They will have a chance to accept it, whether they were Jewish, Catholic, Baptist, or whatever.
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Old 04-14-2004, 09:39 PM
 
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At what point does including others in your own spiritual practice become offensive? Is it offensive to pray for someone? To pray for someone who doesn't know you are praying for them? To pray for someone even though they have asked you not to?

I think there is a world of difference between using "prayer" as a weapon (ie, telling someone you'll pray for her soul after she tells you she's not following your religion) and praying (or posthumously baptizing, or whatever) for someone out a genuine feeling of love and goodwill.

I was reading a board for Christians once, and there was a group of Pentacostalists (spelling?) who felt directly threatened by the impending visit of Tibetan monks and a Kalachakra ceremony. They were organizing a pray-off of sorts to counter the negative impact of the visiting Buddhists.

Is it therefore disrespectful for the monks to perform the ceremony?

I know this might seem OT but there is a principle I am attempting to get at. We cannot dictate another group's religious convictions or practices. Whether or not we find them offensive or harmful.

(Obviously if the LDS church made a promise concerning Holocaust victims they should honor it. I'm trying to take this to a theoretical level.)
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Old 04-15-2004, 05:18 AM
 
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Have to just pop in to say, lots of Jews are feeling dissed, but are shrugging at the same time.

Mostly because anyone can do whatever they want, folks who lived & died as Jews are according to Jewish law and belief Jews, and there's not much of anything anyone else can do about it (again, according to Jewish law and belief). Baptise posthumously all ya' like, doesn't mean much spiritually (again, according to Jewish law and belief).







But thanks to kama for her eloquent explanations of the dis.

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Old 04-16-2004, 10:56 PM
 
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If anyone is interested. I posted a looooong explanation of the mormon belief's regarding the afterlife in the second page of this thread:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...+by+another+na

(for background -- my extended family is all mormon, and I grew up surrounded by mormons, but I myself am not mormon. As a non-mormon growing up in Utah, with a whole mormon family, I ended up learrning a lot about the church. Some from osmosis, some from pure interest, but mostly because I grew up very resentful of the LDS church, and wanted to be able to argue with facts and knowledge.

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Old 04-18-2004, 02:13 AM
 
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I'm uneaisy about the whole mormon religon. My aunt lives in Salt Lake and is always showing me articles on disturbing things like a father wanting his 14 year old daughter to marry is 44 year old brother; the girl refused and the father and uncle beat her to death. Back in 99' anybody remember that one? Dont even get me started on paligamy! I dont want this thread to turn in to a "bash on mormon site" but I pray for that girl almost every nite and many other inocent children out there. Children are a countrys best assett, by abandening our children how can they grow up educated enough to run the world? A dear friend told me that and it is so the truth. Hope no one is offened by any of this, these forums are not a place for people to feel shut down, bad about saying whats on thier mind or how they feel deep down inside. I'm also not saying every mormon has those deranged beliefs. Mormon or not I think we all agree that what they did and WHY they did that is just not okay! Okay off my soapbox now.....
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Old 04-18-2004, 02:41 AM
 
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I can understand people being scared to death of the LDS church, considering what is usually represented in the media! But any people that are practicing polygamy are not part of the church. They call themselves Mormons, but have all been excommunicated for disobeying the laws of the land. I completely agree that children deserve our protection, and while I don't remember or know about the case you mentioned, it disgusts and saddens me. Firstly because that poor girl deserves to have a safe childhood, and secondly because it makes it look like Mormons live this way! We are counselled to not even date until we're 16, and only then in groups, so these people are not part of our faith.

Kerri
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Old 04-18-2004, 03:07 AM
 
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Thank you Kerri for letting me know that. Sorry if my statement sounded ingnorant. I dont know if this is going to come out right or not but, the mormon religon needs more people like you to educate people about the religon and how we should not sterotype it. I didn't know about the 16 age requirment. I think that great. OT: but people also need to not sterotype all middleeastern people as being bad. Thier are just as many bad people living in america as their are in middle east. But for some reson we think were better than then. My uncle told me that we just need to bomb the whole place, just take them all out. AHHH! need to go start thread on this somewhere else...yep no sleep again tonight....
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