Do you believe that the rituals of other faiths have power? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 45 Old 04-12-2004, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This sort of came up in the mormon baptism thread and I would like to hear the thoughts of others without derailing that thread. So, do you believe that rituals and sacraments and such in other faiths have power? Even over those who are not adherents/believers? Is your answer different depending on how closely related the other religion is to yours? Do you think they are as real and powerful as your own faiths rituals or less so in some way?
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#2 of 45 Old 04-12-2004, 11:07 PM
 
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I think of this all the time. Some rituals-yes, others, no. That's just me. I agree with Sylvia Browne when she says that there is much "power" in many traditions. Her books break it own well, I am not so good at that....

DH and I argue about this, he has a complex that HIS beliefs/rituals are stronger than mine (and most others). It is freakin' annoying..........
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#3 of 45 Old 04-12-2004, 11:30 PM
 
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I don't think rituals of any faith (my own denomination included) have any particular power. In fact, I dislike ritual a great deal--it seems like children playing dress-up or something to me.

Although raised RC, I was formerly a Quaker, but we go to a UMC church now for logistical reasons. I have found unprogrammed Quaker meetings, which are devoid of ritual, to be way more powerful than any other service I have ever attended.

I do believe that prayer has power, but that's a different question.
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#4 of 45 Old 04-12-2004, 11:54 PM
 
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I don't think so. I don't think anything can be "done" to my soul by anyone else without my permission.
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#5 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 12:32 AM
 
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I do not think it will affect my soul... because i believe in reincarnation... so as my daughter puts it.. "after a short vacation we come back down to earth" .... lol... gotta love kids...

i do believe that ritual work can disrupt things within our world.. i cant really think how to say what i mean by this... cuz i am pagan and therefore i would not do any ritual healing or whatever without ur permission as i do not believe its right... and for wiccans its in the Rede.. but i dont classify myself wiccan...


did that make any sense??? :LOL its late...

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#6 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 12:36 AM
 
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Yes, definitely.

I believe all "power" comes from the intent of the observer; it comes from the person's consciousness and helps manifest whatever the person is holding the ritual for/praying for.

I think rituals and prayers are simply a concrete way to streamline and direct our energy to put it to the best possible use.
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#7 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 12:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by kama'aina mama
...So, do you believe that rituals and sacraments and such in other faiths have power? Even over those who are not adherents/believers? ...
I don't know. And because of that, I want to be left alone.
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#8 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 12:50 AM
 
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not something that I've spent a great deal of time thinking about.

But yes I do think that other peoples rituals have power. I think the extent of the power depends.
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#9 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 01:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by candiland
Yes, definitely.

I believe all "power" comes from the intent of the observer; it comes from the person's consciousness and helps manifest whatever the person is holding the ritual for/praying for.

I think rituals and prayers are simply a concrete way to streamline and direct our energy to put it to the best possible use.

See now thats what i was trying to say....


Candi stole my thoughts :LOL

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#10 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 01:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by tricia80
Candi stole my thoughts
Wow. Is there a ritual for that?
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#11 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 01:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arduinna
not something that I've spent a great deal of time thinking about.

But yes I do think that other peoples rituals have power. I think the extent of the power depends.
Yeah, I agree with Arduinna.
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#12 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 01:37 AM
 
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in a nutshell... i believe that the belief in a ritual or faith gives the ritual or faith power.
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#13 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 01:38 AM
 
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Kama----:

oh and ITA with Arduinna!

Peace,
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#14 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 07:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by klothos
in a nutshell... i believe that the belief in a ritual or faith gives the ritual or faith power.
I agree with this.

Whatever things you believe to be true, or at least capable of happening, they have some power over you. Things you don't believe to be true or capable of happening have little or no hold on you.
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#15 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 10:41 AM
 
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moving this thread to Religious Studies for further exploration
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#16 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 10:56 AM
 
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I believe there is power whenever people focus their intent.
Rituals are just a way of focusing intent.
There are lots of ways to focus intent.. prayer, meditation, whirling, etc etc etc.

It is not the method that carries power, it is the intent of the participants.

But as one who does work ritual, I totally resent the comment about "children playing dress up."
I love ritual, I find it beautiful, it makes me feel tapped into a deep collective unconsciousness. And I have felt a rippling, spine-tingling power raised when everyone in my circle was focused and united in their intent.

I am no child. And I don't "play dress up" when I do ritual.
You don't respond to ritual.. fine.
That doesn't give you the right to give sneering descriptions of those of us who do.
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#17 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 11:33 AM
 
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asherah, if ritual has meaning to you, fine. It does to a lot of people. As I said, I was merely stating how it feels to me. I have been uncomfortable with ritual since I was a child attending RC mass. To ME, it seems awkward, and it is a total turn-off to whatever the service is supposed to accomplish. I'm sure it is important to others. In my church it involves a lot of the more mainline protestant trappings. While I love the group of people I worship with, I find the trappings a total distraction.
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#18 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 11:34 AM
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Well this is the forum where we can discuss and the Guidelines say:

Quote:
Please do not take it personally when someone questions your own particular faith or belief system or posts an interpretaion or opinion that does not support your belief.
I didn't find anything 'sneering' about EFmom's post whatsoever. In fact, I am glad for this forum so such opinions in discussion can finally happen without the thread pulled off, etc.
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#19 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 12:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by EFmom
I was a child attending RC mass.

Ok im a blonde... what does RC stand for...

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#20 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 12:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by kama'aina mama
Wow. Is there a ritual for that?


Lets ask Candi cuz i think she did one .....:LOL

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#21 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 12:11 PM
 
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Sigh.
I know the rules here, Playdoh, thanks so very much.

And do you not see, EFmom, the difference between what you just posted, and your previous post? There is a HUGE difference between saying that ritual doesn't work for you.. or that you find it artificial..

and characterizing those who do it as "children playing dress up."

I criticize and question ChristianITY freely.. without feeling a need to characterize ChristiANS. There is a difference between discussing a concept and characterizing PEOPLE.

And so, Playdoh.. I really don't need you to quote rules at me.
I am not objecting to criticisms of my religion.. or taking posts that do not support my belief personally.

I am saying it isn't neccessary to give negative characterizations of PEOPLE in intellectual discussions.

Sorry if you can't see the difference, but there is a huge one.
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#22 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tricia80
Ok im a blonde... what does RC stand for...
Roman Catholic
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#23 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 12:29 PM
 
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Well no, actually, I don't. What I said originally was
Quote:
In fact, I dislike ritual a great deal--it seems like children playing dress-up or something to me.
Note the "I dislike" and "to me" in that sentence. I did not say that anyone who likes or does ritual is playing dress-up.

My own belief is that God has chosen to reveal him/herself to people in different ways. Some ways speak to some people, and other ways speak to other people. Ritual, while it might speak to you, does not speak to me.

As I mentioned, I find unprogrammed Quaker meeting to be extremely powerful. To other people, it feels like a bunch of people sitting in a circle nodding off, or at best, meditating. I have had friends who attended meeting with me express that very sentiment. That's perfectly fine with me--Quaker meeting just doesn't speak to them, but it does to me.

I love my UMC minister very much. I also love the congregation. They are wonderful people. Still, nearly every Sunday, when the minister has donned his vestments and comes strutting down the aisle doing that stylized march best known to brides, I look at him in the vestments and the word "tablecloth" pops into my head.
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#24 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 12:37 PM
 
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I have no issues with the fact that ritual does not appeal to you.
As I said in my post.. I believe there are many ways of focusing spiritual intent... and ritual is only one. There are many others.. if Quaker meetings serve you better, great.

I guess we are just going to have to agree to let this go.
There is nothing you can say that is going to make me feel okay about hearing something sacred described as "children playing dressup."

But you are entitled to your opinion, and to characterize it any way you want to, I suppose.
But, I am entitled not to like it.. and I don't. So, there we are.

Anyway, this is toooo OT...

and to answer the OP, again....
Yes, I think the rituals of other faiths have power.. because the power is in the intent of the participants, not in the ritual itself.
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#25 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by asherah
Sigh.
I know the rules here, Playdoh, thanks so very much.
You'e welcome!

Quote:
Originally posted by asherah
And so, Playdoh.. I really don't need you to quote rules at me.
I am not objecting to criticisms of my religion.. or taking posts that do not support my belief personally.
Hmmm..you thank me and then - oh well whatever.

Quote:
Originally posted by asherah
Sorry if you can't see the difference, but there is a huge one.
Yeah, don't see it. IMO, you did take EFmom's opinion very personally and attacked accordingly.

For me, I do not belief rituals have inherent power and I don't think those who practice ritual can wield any power via ritual.
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#26 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 12:48 PM
 
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I did not attack anyone, Playdoh.
I did not say "you are a so-and-so.."
I stated an objection to something that was said.

And what does it have to do with YOU anyway?
EFmom is perfectly capable of speaking for herself.. and has done so. I have responded... I think perfectly civilly... and I am trying to move on.

I am not sure why you are so invested in a disagreement... or misunderstanding.. that has nothing to do with you. You are not, in fact, helping.

Anyway, I am DONE with this. I agree to acknowlege EFmom has the right to her opinion.. and to move on.
If anyone really has a need to continue with this, or to have the last word, I suggest we take it to PM, and let others discuss whether they think people's rituals have meaning.
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#27 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 12:57 PM
 
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I guess I'm curious as to what kind of power that we are talking about.

On the one hand I do believe that intent is important. But in my case the "props" if you will are there for a reason and it's not just to look cool.

Of course this is a thread with members of different religious backgrounds and practices so I can definately understand that to some people the "props" may just be "ornamental". Not so, in my case.

But I function outside of Wicca and the big three.
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#28 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 01:09 PM
 
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Ooooooh, I feel some SPANKINGS coming on!
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#29 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 01:36 PM
 
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Candi, you already got us in activism.

I think your true colors are showing

Candiland is kinky!!!!

:LOL
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#30 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 01:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by klothos
in a nutshell... i believe that the belief in a ritual or faith gives the ritual or faith power.
I agree with this.
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