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Old 04-18-2004, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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It is a religion, btw, so I'm placing this post in Religious Studies.

I find most of the tenets of Scientology harmless but then, I recall a woman dying at the LA Center in their detox program and I wasn't so sure it was harmless.

Kelly ******* also went through the detox program and re-experienced her past drug abuse and all medications she'd consumed and I thought that was an interesting thing.

I'm a huge Beck fan so since he thinks Scientology is worthwhile in the midst of all his cynacism, I'm intrigued.

Any thoughts?
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Old 04-18-2004, 08:08 PM
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I was astounded to realize that Scientologists believe in aliens!

Not that there is anything wrong with that I just never realized what the religion was about.

Anyway, they basically believe in striving to be pure enough for the original earthlings (aliens - now gone) to enter their bodies. The whole level thing is about being worthy of having these spirits inhabit you.

I read an interesting web page about it - that's where I got my info - I'll search around and see if I can find it.......

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Old 04-18-2004, 08:34 PM
 
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I would be interested in that link... even though im pagan i do like to look at other religions and learn... ive always found religions fascinating...

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Old 04-18-2004, 09:10 PM
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ok I'm posting some links

I'll try to post all sides so if feel like I'm being biased, just hold on and keep reading:

http://www.xenu.net/roland-intro.html

www.whatisscientology.org/

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/

http://www.religioustolerance.org/scientol.htm

www.scientology.org/

http://www.fzaoint.net/

http://www.holysmoke.org

FYI - I could not find the site I referenced (it has been years). The sites in this post have not been viewed by me! I want to make clear that I do NOT endorse them.

Basically, all I've done is make things easier on those who want to check out scientology!

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Old 04-18-2004, 09:17 PM
 
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Here is a link that explains the Scientologist belief in Aliens and what effect they believe that is having on us now.

I am wary of how expensive it is to move to up the levels in Scientology. Apparently, it can cost tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands dollars to get to the highest levels. I am also wary of how Scientology seems to spend a lot of money trying to shut down it's critics

You can read more about Scientology
here at their offical website. Or here, and here for a different pov on Scientology.
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Old 04-19-2004, 01:25 PM
 
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There was a front page article in Time magazine a number o f years ago that stated that Scientology is a scam, and a cult out to get money from the trusting folks who join (L. Ron hubbard is quoted as calling new recruits "raw meat"). I will see if I can find it and post a link. (its often hard to find links for scientology info, because the Church of Secintology is infamous for its aggressive legal actions against anyone who posts information about them on the web...)

edited to add: here it is: http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/time-behar.html

The article characterizes the "church" as "a ruthless global scam" and states that "The Church of Scientology, started by science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard to 'clear' people of unhappiness, portrays itself as a religion. In reality the church is a hugely profitable global racket that survives by intimidating members and critics in a Mafia-like manner."
Of couse its possible that "Time" got it all wrong and that it is totally innocent and benevolent...but I have my doubts.

Also, there are also numerous court opinions where judges state on the record, or include in their written opinions, that L. Ron Hubbard was a pathological liar and that most of the positive information about him was outright falsehoods spread by himself.
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Old 04-20-2004, 04:13 PM
 
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My uncle got involved in scientology when he was about 18 yerars old. He tried to cut off all ties with the family, but my grandma sent her three older boys down to Houston to go get him and bring him home. And they did just that. I don't know how they found him, but they basically kidnapped him (took him against his will) and brought him home. The family was then able to bring him back to his senses.

To me that is very scary!

IMO, you shouldn't have to pay or cut off ties with your family to follow a so-called "spiritual" path.
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Old 04-22-2004, 02:31 PM
 
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I'm not sure if this is true or not, but this is what I heard: L. Ron Hubbard and Robert A. Heinlein, two science fiction writiers, made a bet with each other to see who could start a religion first. Hubbard wrote "Dianetics" and Heinlein wrote "Stranger in a Strange Land". Hubbard won the bet, but personally I think Stranger is a much better book. :LOL

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Old 04-22-2004, 03:16 PM
 
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eilonwy --

Yeah, and I have also read numerous statements attributed to him where he stated that the fastest way to get rich is to start a religion. Apparently when he died he was worth $640 million.

From the Boston Herald: http://www.rickross.com/reference/sc...y/Scien32.html
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Old 05-15-2004, 08:46 PM
 
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The actual beliefs of Scientology are listed here:

http://www.scientology.org/en_US/rel...ism/pg008.html

ETA:
Regarding pugmadmama's money question:
http://www.scientology.org/en_US/rel...ism/pg028.html
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Old 05-17-2004, 12:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit
The actual beliefs of Scientology are listed here:

http://www.scientology.org/en_US/rel...ism/pg008.html

ETA:
Regarding pugmadmama's money question:
http://www.scientology.org/en_US/rel...ism/pg028.html
I don't think you can rely on the Scientologist website for truly comprehensive answers.

For example, if I wanted to learn about Catholism, I wouldn't only read the Vaticans official website. I think former members and investigative reports have as much (more?) to teach us as offical websites do.
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Old 05-17-2004, 01:22 AM
 
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The best way to learn about Scientology is to watch some of the video footage that aired after that woman's death with interviews with the SCientology PR people. SCARY STUFF!!!

BTW - in becoming "pure", you must recall everything you've ever done wrong (which gets taped) and make up stuff if you haven't been that bad. Then when you don't want to give them money or want to leave, they have things to blackmail you with!

My ex did a lot of research into it - it's really horrible.

Early intervention specialist and parent consultant since 2002.
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Old 05-17-2004, 01:37 AM
 
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I found some info on scientology by accident recently. I was looking on line for outdoor schools for kids who have drug/discipline problems. There was one in Reserve New Mexico that got shut down. It was run by scientologists and there are two other schools with the same name run in California. There were reports of sexual abuse and the way some people were talking made scientology seem like a scary cult. I'll try and find the links for the articles.

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Old 05-17-2004, 01:42 AM
 
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http://members.chello.nl/mgormez/chi...dmolester.html
http://www.xenutv.com/interviews/astra-5.htm
http://www.skeptictank.org/gen3/gen01983.htm
This is what I was referring to.

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Old 05-17-2004, 01:56 AM
 
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so I don't know if it tells in those...but aren't there a lot of big name stars who belong to the church of sci??? or am I thinking of something else....

Linda
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Old 05-17-2004, 02:24 PM
 
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Yes, many big name stars are scientologists.
John Travolta
Kelly ******* - his wife
Tom Cruise
Kirstie Alley
...and I know there are more I can't think of.
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Old 05-17-2004, 04:27 PM
 
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I don't think they are a scary cult - I think they are the ultimate MLM scheme! Selling happiness, of all things! And, then they get the added bonus of being non-profit and tax free... :
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Old 05-17-2004, 05:22 PM
 
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I tend to think they are a bit more than a multi-level marketing scheme. (I think that's what MLM stands for??) I mean you can quite/leave marykay, or tupperware or pampered chef whenever you want. Those are just businesses. This organization tries to intrude and take over so much if not your entire life. Cut off ties with family, etc. That totally says cult to me.
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Old 05-17-2004, 05:28 PM
 
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Did anyone read the links I posted? Just wondering what others thought of them and if they were credible.

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Old 05-17-2004, 07:51 PM
 
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I was very angry when Scientology took over the Cult Awareness Network, silencing a group critical of many cult-like religious movements, including Scientology. You don't have to scratch hard to find ex-members or journalists who have been visited by extremely agressive Scientology lawyers. *Not* an ethical organization from what I've read. I'm generally a live and let live kind of person when it comes to religion, but how they treat outsiders and former believers is how I form a more negative opinion of even "mainstream" religions.
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Old 05-17-2004, 10:42 PM
 
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There was a really good three-hour long Biography Extra about Scientology on A&E a while back. I thought it was well-balanced and showed both sides of the story. Funny, it hasn't been aired again since... :
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Old 05-18-2004, 01:09 PM
 
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I'm a little confused as to the purpose of this thread.

Is this a discussion about what the spiritual beliefs of Scientologists are?

Or is this a discussion about whether or not you approve of their religion, think it is a religion, or agree with them?
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Old 05-18-2004, 02:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit
I'm a little confused as to the purpose of this thread.

Is this a discussion about what the spiritual beliefs of Scientologists are?

Or is this a discussion about whether or not you approve of their religion, think it is a religion, or agree with them?
All of the above, IMO. The original post just asked for "any thoughts" about scientology.

I think some people's thoughts are about their beliefs and some people's thoughts are about the whole cult/religion thing.

Just my .02 cents.
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Old 05-20-2004, 08:04 PM
 
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I see -- thanks for clarifying that point. I shouldn't have joined this discussion then, actually, since I don't take part in that kind of conversation about any religion. One person's weird idea is another person's deep-seated spiritual conviction, YKWIM?

Playdoh, I do have more info on the topic and you're welcome to PM me if you like. But I can't join the debate.
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Old 05-20-2004, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, thanks misfit.

I was asking for any and all, fwiw. I didn't know hardly anything about Scientology when I first posted this OP. I heard that it requires birthing in silence (and Kelly ******* allegedly did just that) and no psych drugs.

Thank you all for the great links and info. Helped me make a more informed opinion on this religion.
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Old 05-21-2004, 01:25 AM
 
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** I heard that it requires birthing in silence **

Whatever for?
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Old 05-21-2004, 01:59 AM
 
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People like to take Scientology with a grain of salt, because if they took it seriously, as it should be, they couldn't handle it. I accidentally crossed a Scientologist once. I didn't even know he was one, along with his family and all of his business associates, until after I made an innocent mistake. I was placed on L. Ron Hubbard's list of enemies and made "Fair Game" which is their policy that any Scientologist is above the law and may do anything including physical harm to an "enemy wog" they see fit as repayment. Non Scientologists are called "wogs" -- akin to the "N" word in white racist parlance. Scientologist children are routinely abused, forced to hit themsleves over and over again at the site of any event or physical pain to make them desensitize to it. In the Sea Organization they are malnourished and neglected for weeks by their parents who have to work 100 hours per week and are forbidden to see their own children.

If you want to know the truth about Scientology, read www.xenu.net. That IS the truth - with many people who have escaped Scientology after decades of brainwashing - to tell the tale.

It is evil. They almost ruined my life.
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Old 05-21-2004, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milk4two
** I heard that it requires birthing in silence **

Whatever for?
From what I heard, it's traumatic for the baby to have sounds.

Thank you, lifeissweet. Very meaningful post you wrote. I'm glad you posted here.
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Old 05-29-2004, 05:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Mom
Yes, many big name stars are scientologists.
John Travolta
Kelly ******* - his wife
Tom Cruise
Kirstie Alley
...and I know there are more I can't think of.
I heard a news report once, immediately before their break-up, that Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman quietly announced their intention to break all ties with the Church of Scientology. I have not heard that story since.

You can add to that list Lisa Marie Presley, and Giovanni Ribisi, and Karen Black.

When I was in my last year in college, out of curiosity, I wandered into a Scientology center In Burbank on the Golden Mall. It was next door to the Health Food Store I frequented. I took their personality test and I was given the results. I was told by this "auditor" that I was near death and that I needed Scientology to live, i.e., using their "tone scale".

This made me laugh.

I have nothing against the basic beliefs of Scientology, but this is a hard sell, and a nasty, rude way to recruit vulnerable people. I have since read Dianetics, and it is a good book; I appreciate the fact that they teach self-reliance and healthy eating habits. The concepts are logical but the proselyzing technique leaves much to be desired.

I received letters and phone calls for years at my parents' home after that, even though I graduated from college and got married a few months after this little encounter. That was thirty years ago. I am not dead yet.

I have had many friends who are Scientologists and I simply make it very CLEAR (this is a big buzz word in Scientology) to them that I am not interested in joining their church.

I use the same attitiude with LDS and JW's.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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