Christianity and reincarnation - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 44 Old 05-17-2004, 11:02 PM
 
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I suppose we shall have to agree to disagree. If we are saved by reincarnation and not by grace through faith then Ephesians 2:8-9 is null and void because living is "work" making Christ's work pointless. Somehow I don't think God does pointless things.
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#32 of 44 Old 05-17-2004, 11:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnoliablue
I am a Christian, but I have also experienced too many spiritually profound experiences in my life; have had premonition dreams, spoke to my father after his death.. so many coincidences that I believe we are reincarnated. I believe we decide before we return to this lifetime what our new life will contain, and what we wish to learn from it.

I believe at some stage of evolving, we achieve peace within, and then at that time we can either choose to return to Nirvana or to live another lifetime on Earth just for the experience of it.


Sums it up well for me. Earth is our classroom. Through Christ we can return to perfection after death, or we can choose to return for more lessons. The goal of the soul is being reunited with God.
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#33 of 44 Old 05-18-2004, 10:34 AM
 
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Elzabet, ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice?

I find one cannot really compare and harmonize John with the synoptics. They are on quite a different wavelength. John is late and has a "high Christology." He disagrees with the synoptics on whom Jesus himself was, not just who J the B was!
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#34 of 44 Old 05-18-2004, 10:50 AM
 
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Elzabet, I think you and I are on the same wavelength here. No one has yet to show me biblical proof of reincarnation, therefore no one is convincing me of anything but ridiculousness (is that a word? )

I don't believe that reincarnation goes with Christianity. That's about all I have to say here.

Jenny
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#35 of 44 Old 05-18-2004, 10:55 AM
 
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I think we can be both saved by reincarnation AND by grace through faith, for it is by living a faith-filled life that one achieves the most enlightment and grace, therefore they are saved...and those that choose to live an alternate life, not choosing to learn the more positive lessons of life, thus not achieving a stae of ultimate "grace" or enlightenment, they return again to earthly life to relearn the things that gave them the most troubles.

Once you feel you have reached your pinnacle of peace and grace, I do not believe you are reincarnated again, unless you choose to be. So the two go hand in hand,IMO.
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#36 of 44 Old 05-18-2004, 03:11 PM
 
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I personally don't think Christianity as I understand it includes reincarnation. I think one can succesfully blend two beliefs to form their own truth- but I don't think they are inherently interconnected.
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#37 of 44 Old 05-18-2004, 08:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
Elzabet, ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice?

I find one cannot really compare and harmonize John with the synoptics. They are on quite a different wavelength. John is late and has a "high Christology." He disagrees with the synoptics on whom Jesus himself was, not just who J the B was!
DarryLLL: I have no idea what you meant by that first line and, since we differ so greatly on scripture and Jesus and so on and so forth, I don't even think we can converse on this issue. Thanks for the input.

Jenny:
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#38 of 44 Old 05-18-2004, 09:24 PM
 
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Rainbow... All faiths are inherently connected in my opinion. Regardless of which faith you are part of , if ultimately you are striving to be the best soul you can possibly be, and achieve inner peace, you are connected.

In the end, we can take what we choose to believe and let the rest go..but one thing we can all agree on is that Noone really knows. Therefore, to tell one person this cannot be right, this is wrong, you cannot be one faith yet subscribe to other teachings or philosophies is wrong.

I believe I am a soul. I am a child of a Being bigger than myself. I am a part of everything and everyone that comes into my life. I believe every word, every thought, every action is connected to everyone and everything around me...and I believe I am learning as I go. I find my faith in nature. I find my faith in the quietness of the Church at dawn. I also find it in my dreams..dreams that have told me things that were to come, and things that have passed and explained to me rhyme and reason for these things.

If reincarnation does not exist, then there are many many other people with a special gift who have been touched by "something" I choose to believe it is all the lives before this one. You choose your belief. Peace
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#39 of 44 Old 05-19-2004, 08:23 AM
 
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Elzabet, that was a curt dismissal!

Even if you chose to ignore me, I will elucidate, for the sake of this conversation, which is not just between you and me...

You pay your money... but this I mean, I know you have been on a spiritual journey for years and have settled on Christianity as the one belief system that makes the most sense to you. You know there are other paths. Yet, you feel most comfortable in a certain type of Xtian mindset. That is the choice thing.

2ndly, why deny there is more than one way to interpret scripture? The others on this thread are exploring that option, why should I be shot down for doing the same?

Myself, I do not think Christian scripture tells us everything we need to know about life. It was written for a 1st-4th CE Roman audience, with their understanding of the universe and science and geography and god(s).

All ancient scripture is sacred. All is meaningful and worthy to be studied.

Many gnostic Chrisitans believed in reincarnation. This was called heresy and forcefully excised from the orthodox faith. You (crooked bishops and emperors) can't control people as well if they think they have more than one chance at making a good life.

I do not mean to imply control was Jesus' mission, but unfortunately, his message (euangel) was corrupted and used for evil almost immediately.
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#40 of 44 Old 05-19-2004, 10:46 AM
 
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I do not have problems with alternate interpretations of scripture. I do not deny that people tend to interpret scripture to their own satisfaction and that is fine. Interpret away. I have nothing against interpreting scripture differently and I enjoy discussing such things with others.

I also do not think Scripture tells us everything we need to know about life. I do not hold to sola scriptura for just that reason. There are very significant areas where scripture is silent. In that case we have the Holy Spirit and the Church. In 1 Timothy Paul writes that the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth (and yes, I know you think Paul was a nutcase who just wanted power and so switched from being a pharisee to christianity so he could have a high position and that letters attributed to him were actually written some 300+ years later by someone else). And over the years the church, catholic, orthodox and protestant (little p and capital P) have spoken on this issue. I do believe however that study of sacred scripture with the guidance of the Holy Spirit is profitable for every good work. Otherwise it's just a bunch of nice sayings that can be lumped together with everything else men have written over the centuries and is no more inspired than The Da Vinci Code or any other novel you care to name.

However, since I have been at this forum I've noticed a tendency for you to do your level best to completely dismiss a more conservative/traditional point of view when it comes to biblical scholarship and study. The overall feeling I get from reading your posts is that you think "how could any intelligent person believe Jesus was God, christianity is the way and the Bible is real?" Not to mention your complete dismissal of any biblical scholar who comes at the topic from a believing perspective which is a flawed viewpoint for a true scholar to take. Because I sense such total disrespect of my point of view from you I tend to not read your posts too deeply. IMO, your original comment was sarcastic and added nothing to the conversation so I shrugged it off.
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#41 of 44 Old 05-19-2004, 10:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elzabet
I do not have problems with alternate interpretations of scripture. I do not deny that people tend to interpret scripture to their own satisfaction and that is fine. Interpret away. I have nothing against interpreting scripture differently and I enjoy discussing such things with others.

I also do not think Scripture tells us everything we need to know about life.
So we agree on that at least.

T
Quote:
(and yes, I know you think Paul was a nutcase who just wanted power and so switched from being a pharisee to christianity so he could have a high position and that letters attributed to him were actually written some 300+ years later by someone else).
No, I do not think that at all! I never said such a thing. I do think the first few letters attributed to him are authentic, tho with some catholic redactions. Many scholars have shown this thru text criticism.

Some however, do question whether Paul was a fictional character, and his original letters were actually written by Marcion, (as per quotes in Tertullian)but that is another thread...

Quote:
However, since I have been at this forum I've noticed a tendency for you to do your level best to completely dismiss a more conservative/traditional point of view when it comes to biblical scholarship and study. The overall feeling I get from reading your posts is that you think "how could any intelligent person believe Jesus was God, christianity is the way and the Bible is real?" Not to mention your complete dismissal of any biblical scholar who comes at the topic from a believing perspective which is a flawed viewpoint for a true scholar to take. Because I sense such total disrespect of my point of view from you I tend to not read your posts too deeply. IMO, your original comment was sarcastic and added nothing to the conversation so I shrugged it off.
All righty then!
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#42 of 44 Old 05-19-2004, 11:18 AM
 
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Does Anyone Have Any Other Books On This Topic?

Reincarnation-the Missing Link In Christianity
Lives Of The Master
Edgar Cayces Story Of The Soul
Edgar Cayces Story Of Jesus
Unto The Churches

::
momma to 4
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#43 of 44 Old 05-19-2004, 01:49 PM
 
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Sorry to scamper off topic again, but Elzabet, I wanted to address one more thing.

I am sorry you find me rude. I spent some time making the effort to address your concerns in PM, which was a sign of respect from me. Apparently, you did not appreciate my effort.

Just to clear up, contrary to what you state, much of the scholarship I base my current viewpoint upon was written by Christians, authors such as:

Freke/Gandy
Starbird
Spong
Pagels
Crossan

True, these folks are "liberal" Christians, perhaps not "traditional" enough for you, but that is a choice only you can make. It is not rude of me, per se, to read them.

I also read Jews, such as the recently departed Maccoby, and a secular humanist, Robert Price.
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#44 of 44 Old 05-19-2004, 04:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnoliablue
Rainbow... All faiths are inherently connected in my opinion. Regardless of which faith you are part of , if ultimately you are striving to be the best soul you can possibly be, and achieve inner peace, you are connected.
Perhaps on a inner/psycological level you are right- by saying they are not inhernetly connected I mean that the doctrine and the secular teachings are not interchangable. Does that make sense? Reincarnation does not mesh with conventional Christianity IMO- one can though take parts of various faiths and mesh them for themselves. I was looking more through secular lenses than spiritual/inner lenses.
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