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#1 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't need a simple answer, since I am a Christian and I already have learned enough about it. I pose this as a philosophical question.

I have decided that the Bible is just a collection of books, songs, and letters written by men about God. I do not believe it all came from God. I do not believe it is holy. I believe men invented religion, but God is who He is. I believe in the Trinity of God, the holy, omnicient, omnipotent God. I feel that some people are mistakenly worshipping the Bible, not God.

Are my ideas really crazy? To rephrase, I'm saying that the Bible is from people, and may or may not accurately represent God. Are there any other people who believe this?

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#2 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 03:25 PM
 
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I believe that people wrote it but it is still the word of God.

I think the problem mostly is all of the translations and such. We do not have the "original" word of God as it was said.....only interruptations and translations of it.

I use pray to make up for the error.

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#3 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 03:29 PM
 
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#4 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 03:33 PM
 
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I have similar views. I believe portions of the Bible are divinely inspired, but I do not believe the Bible is a literal inerrant dictation from God, or a literal inerrant historical record. I agree with you that many seem to worship the Bible instead of God. I'd also like to make an comparision with the Bible to the Qur'an in Islam. The Qur'an, it is believed by Muslims, is a relevation from God. In other words, through the words of the Qur'an, God reveals himself, his qualities, his essence to humanity--a way for humanity to know God. I don't believe the Bible can be seen as having the same purpose in Christianity. I think the true "revelation of God" in Christianity is Jesus. IT is through Jesus that God reveals his qualities and essence to humanity. Does that make sense?
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#5 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 03:44 PM
 
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I believe that God gave the inpiration to men. I have faith that the Bible is a true account. God reveals Himself through the Bible and through personal experience.

II Tim. 3.16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instructoin in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect throughly furnished unto all good works.

II Peter 1.20-21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob does reveal Himself through the scriptures (the Bible). Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

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#6 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 03:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by *~Danielle~*
I believe that God gave the inpiration to men. I have faith that the Bible is a true account. God reveals Himself through the Bible and through personal experience.

II Tim. 3.16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instructoin in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect throughly furnished unto all good works.

II Peter 1.20-21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob does reveal Himself through the scriptures (the Bible). Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Thank you for posting this.

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#7 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 04:12 PM
 
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I also want to post this link which goes more in depth from a man I respect and agree with on just about everything: http://www.equip.org/essentials/index.asp?view=bible
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#8 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 04:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chersolly
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:LOL

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#9 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 04:43 PM
 
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queen of pride, i tend to agree with you. i don't think your ideas are crazy. i think spirit and the Divine has many ways of showing it's face to make sure that none of us are left out. the Bible is just one of those paths for some the Bible calls to them and guides them, for others something else calls and guides us (can you tell where i fit? ) every path is valid.

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#10 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 04:50 PM
 
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When it comes to the bible I agree with Bishop Spong and Marcus Borg. Here are some links about their thoughts on the bible.

Page discussing Spong's view on the bible

Spong on the Bible

Marcus Borg describes a way of reading and understanding the bible through a "historical-metaphorical" lens rather than a "literal-factual" one. He also talks of seeing the bible as a "human response to God". I totally agree.

Review of Borg's book

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#11 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 05:24 PM
 
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I would warn anyone not to read Spong or Borg. Both have a twisted view of scripture. :

Quote:
Jesus did not die because he wanted to atone for the sins of the world rather, "He was killed because he sought, in the name and power of the Spirit, the transformation of his own culture. He issued a call for a relationship with God that would lead to a new ethos and thus a new politics. For that goal he gave his life, even though his death was not his primary intention." pg.184
http://www.ucmpage.org/articles/jmiles5.html Jesus came to die for our sins. This is a great article that points out Borgs twisted theology.
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#12 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 05:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by beccaboomom
I would warn anyone not to read Spong or Borg. Both have a twisted view of scripture. :
i ask this with sincerity - how did you determine their view is twisted? i haven't read them yet but am interested in their views. they look like good books to me.

thanks,
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#13 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 05:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by beccaboomom
I would warn anyone not to read Spong or Borg. Both have a twisted view of scripture. :
In your opinion...which incidentally does NOT make it fact. :
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#14 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 05:57 PM
 
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beccaboomom, if you drag out that tired old article one more time...:LOL

What are you afraid of?

Are you trying to protect our immortal souls?

I think the Bible is an ancient collection of books, interesting, filled with some history, some myth, some poetry, some sex, some horror, some advice for a happy loving life, influenced by politics and the cultures of ancient Egypt, Canaan, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome.
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#15 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 06:02 PM
 
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i read the article (thanks) , but it just convinces me to read the books more than anything to each her own.

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#16 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 06:40 PM
 
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It's an anthology.
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#17 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 06:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beccaboomom
I would warn anyone not to read Spong or Borg. Both have a twisted view of scripture.
And I would recommend not reading James Dobson or any other conservative, literal-factual interpretation. Good thing people get to decide for themselves eh?

If Borg and Spong (now that's just fun to say...) have twisted views of scripture I say that's peachy by me. I have always loved twisted things.


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Jesus came to die for our sins. This is a great article that points out Borgs twisted theology.
If you think Jesus came to die for your sins that's cool by me. But surely you realize that not all of us have to think that... no matter what article gets posted. This is a forum made up of members that have diverse religious and spiritual backgrounds. The responses are going to reflect that.

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#18 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 07:04 PM
 
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I believe it is all metaphor, ancient stories attempting to describe something which is truly indescribable. The something the Bible is an attempt to describe is what William James called "religious experience" what others call "epiphany" and still others have all sorts of other names for it. What it is is impossible to talk about because it is something one must experience for themselves in order to really understand it. I also believe there are many many more recent spiritual events which people are either afraid or unable to talk about, or if they do, they are ridiculed and made the butts of others' jokes and often endure outright hatred and attacks. I believe the stories in the Bible is a useful tool that can help give people insight into explaining their own personal religious experiences. I do not believe that it can teach people about something they don't already have some basis of understanding. I believe that it is so very outdated that we have lost most of the original meaning behind the metaphors simply by virtue of the fact that we live in a totally different time and age and can never really understand what people who lived that long ago had experienced or how they thought about things.
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#19 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 07:26 PM
 
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stafl, very nice i was thinking myself, does it really matter if the Bible is historically accurate or a collection of myths? if it spurs us to greater spiritual growth and to a deeper connection with the Divine, then the accuracy of the Bible is not relevant. from my perspective, if we were all tuned into our intuition the way we are meant to be, all the answers are there because we are connected to the Divine through our intuition ... the Bible is a guide of sorts for when we have lost that connection.

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#20 of 76 Old 10-14-2005, 07:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa
And I would recommend not reading James Dobson or any other conservative, literal-factual interpretation. Good thing people get to decide for themselves eh?

If Borg and Spong (now that's just fun to say...) have twisted views of scripture I say that's peachy by me. I have always loved twisted things.



If you think Jesus came to die for your sins that's cool by me. But surely you realize that not all of us have to think that... no matter what article gets posted. This is a forum made up of members that have diverse religious and spiritual backgrounds. The responses are going to reflect that.
You know, back when I was a fundamentalist, I used to cringe whenever I heard the name Spong because to me he was threatening the entire church and belief system that I had built my life upon ... now having walked away from all of it, I find his writings rather eye-opening and refreshing. It's something what a few months of study and reading will do for you!

In terms of the Bible ... my own two cents on it is that it's another example among many of man's way to try to figure out God. I do not believe it is inspired nor written by God; nor do I hold the stories true or historically accurate. I have basically come to the place where it's just another book, one which has had an impact upon this world unlike any other book. But, just a book written by men none-the-less. Again, just my two cents.

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#21 of 76 Old 10-15-2005, 07:38 AM
 
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I am totally uninterested in these American hot-shot theologians, be they conservative or liberal. So no input there

But Queen's original comment about worshipping the Bible more than worshipping God is interesting.
Jesus said (John 5:39-40): You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Europeanmom
But Queen's original comment about worshipping the Bible more than worshipping God is interesting.
Jesus said (John 5:39-40): You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

My son was mentioning that to me the other day actually. That he thinks many Christians seem to see the Bible as their God.

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#23 of 76 Old 10-15-2005, 06:29 PM
 
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I believe the bible was inspired by God, isinerant and true. i believe it is the wondow to Gods heart and is useful for teaching and reproving. I belive the things said are to be taken literally. I believe it is Holy but that doesn't mean i worship it. I worship God.

and i also do not know anything about borg and sprog but I do have to say it makes me chuckle when I say it. :LOL

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasingPeace
I have similar views. I believe portions of the Bible are divinely inspired, but I do not believe the Bible is a literal inerrant dictation from God, or a literal inerrant historical record. I agree with you that many seem to worship the Bible instead of God. I'd also like to make an comparision with the Bible to the Qur'an in Islam. The Qur'an, it is believed by Muslims, is a relevation from God. In other words, through the words of the Qur'an, God reveals himself, his qualities, his essence to humanity--a way for humanity to know God. I don't believe the Bible can be seen as having the same purpose in Christianity. I think the true "revelation of God" in Christianity is Jesus. IT is through Jesus that God reveals his qualities and essence to humanity. Does that make sense?
Thank you for this- beautiful and simple and IMO true.
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#25 of 76 Old 10-17-2005, 12:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Europeanmom
But Queen's original comment about worshipping the Bible more than worshipping God is interesting.
Jesus said (John 5:39-40): You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
Fascinating and very wise.
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#26 of 76 Old 10-17-2005, 08:29 AM
 
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Psalm 111:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding, to him belongs eternal praise.

I don't think anyone worships the Bible. God has given us the Bible to show us how to live, teach about Jesus, find comfort from reading His word, teach us about his charactaristics, history, and wisdom.

Proverbs 3:5-7 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. Do not be wise in your own eyes, fear the Lord and shun evil.

When I want to strip the Bible of being God's holy word , I usually want to do so so that in the my heart I can justify something in my life that isn't what God would have me do. It is much easier to say that the Bible isn't God's holy word, the bible was written for another time, the Bible is a myth, than to look into my own heart for my motive for doing so.

Quote:
I believe the bible was inspired by God, isinerant and true. i believe it is the wondow to Gods heart and is useful for teaching and reproving. I belive the things said are to be taken literally. I believe it is Holy but that doesn't mean i worship it. I worship God.
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#27 of 76 Old 10-17-2005, 12:25 PM
 
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#28 of 76 Old 10-17-2005, 12:43 PM
 
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But please don't assume that those of us that don't believe in it need to look into our own hearts ... it's actually pretty insensitive, again, in my opinion.
Yes, quite. And judgemental.
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#29 of 76 Old 10-17-2005, 02:45 PM
 
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When I want to strip the Bible of being God's holy word , I usually want to do so so that in the my heart I can justify something in my life that isn't what God would have me do. It is much easier to say that the Bible isn't God's holy word, the bible was written for another time, the Bible is a myth, than to look into my own heart for my motive for doing so.
maybe the motive for doing so is that Spirit is guiding us in a different direction ... it happens.

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#30 of 76 Old 10-17-2005, 02:55 PM
 
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People understand and apply the wisdom of the Bible in different ways. Stripped down even.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats a man who can do him absolutely no good."
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