Remind me again why I hate Dr. Dobson? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#61 of 166 Old 01-30-2006, 06:56 PM
 
laralou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: little house in the suburbs
Posts: 4,904
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgia
Not that I'm a huge Sears fan, but didn't he write a Christian parenting/baby care book? I think I remember reading about his approach in an old MM. Wonder if there's an accompanying video??

I can't wait to hear how your letter is received! :
He did but I don't think there is a video. Dr. S was *my* pediatrician when I was a child. How is that for AP pedigree!

Excellent letter!!! I will keep it on file for the possibility that I may have to write such a letter one day.
laralou is offline  
#62 of 166 Old 01-30-2006, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
Penelope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: West Papio Creek Trail
Posts: 12,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I thought the Active Parenting site was good too. (I'm "Active" which seems to be the best of the three styles?) I'll look at it some more. I only looked at the In Joy site briefly, but is it explicitly Christian? I think that's probably a requirement here.

Sears has a "Discipline Book" but some of what he advocates is wrong, IMO. (A 6 yo who soils his pants "on purpose" is supposed to be confined to his room for the rest of the day with only w. wheat bread and water, for example. And he's against spanking but includes guidelines for those who spank, which seems ambivilant to me.) But it's better than Dobson.

Afishwithabike, if my MIL or FIL questioned my parenting in a serious way or suggested I spank, I'd take their heads clean off. (Metaphorically, of course. ) But I feel like my pastor is saner, and has the potential to reach (and possibly misinform) lots of people.

Can't give up actin' tough, it's all that I'm made of. Can't scrape together quite enough to ride the bus to the outskirts of the fact that I need love. ~ Neko Case

 
Penelope is offline  
#63 of 166 Old 01-30-2006, 08:15 PM
 
Wausau74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgia
Not that I'm a huge Sears fan, but didn't he write a Christian parenting/baby care book? I think I remember reading about his approach in an old MM. Wonder if there's an accompanying video??
Yes he did. He deals with it in Christian Parenting & Child Care, which he wrote with his wife. He does not support spanking, but offers guidelines for those who do chose to do so. p. 370 he says "we feel that spanking need not be used, or at least only rarely."
Wausau74 is offline  
#64 of 166 Old 01-30-2006, 08:18 PM
 
DaryLLL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Under a Chimpocracy
Posts: 13,708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Spanking, when done in a controlled manner, is not beating.
Yes, a "controlled spanking" with a wooden spoon or paddle, hard enough to hurt and cause tears, is considered a beating. He also recommmends, as I quoted, a thump on the head or rap on the knuckles.
DaryLLL is offline  
#65 of 166 Old 01-30-2006, 08:32 PM
 
DaryLLL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Under a Chimpocracy
Posts: 13,708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
spank: synomym, slap

slap:

A sharp blow made with the open hand or with a flat object; a smack.

To strike or beat with the force and sound of a slap

To restrain or correct by means of a sharp blow

smack:

To strike sharply and with a loud noise.

Other words he used:

rap:

To hit sharply and swiftly; strike

thump:

To beat with or as if with a blunt object so as to produce a muffled sound or thud.

a heavy blow with the hand

Mothering's stance on discipline, as stated on the Gentle Discipline Board:

Quote:
Gentle Discipline Forum Guidelines
Welcome to Gentle Discipline. This forum has a specific aim: to help parents learn and apply gentle discipline methods in raising their children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peggy O'Mara
Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems.

Hitting is never the best way to teach a child. Even in the case of real danger - as when a child runs out into the road - you can grab him, sit him down, look him in the eyes, and tell him why he must never do that again. The panic in your voice will communicate your message much more effectively than any spanking. You can be dramatic without being abusive.

--'Natural Family Living'

Please appreciate that this forum is not a place to uphold or advocate physical punishment of children.
DaryLLL is offline  
#66 of 166 Old 01-30-2006, 08:34 PM
 
candiland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Waiting for Calgon to take me away.
Posts: 4,107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Also, why is it whenever someone disagrees with homosexuality or calls it a sin they are automatically labeled "homophoebic"?
candiland is offline  
#67 of 166 Old 01-30-2006, 08:36 PM
 
georgia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tl;dr
Posts: 26,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I would require him to stop the protest crying, usually by offering him a little more of whatever caused the original tears.
Personally, I find this statement incredibly cruel.

Actually, you can call spankings whatever you'd like, but even the appearance of the advocacy of physical punishment of children will not be hosted on MDC.

I have retired from administration work, so if you have a question about anything MDC-related, please contact Cynthia Mosher. Thanks!
 
georgia is offline  
#68 of 166 Old 01-30-2006, 08:47 PM
 
jmhammond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just wanted to post and thank you all for this discussion, as with many MDC threads, I can seperate the meat from the bones and take what helps me, it's really great.

I recently started an AP support group at my church and have already received some *opposition* from older Dobson/Ezzo fans. I have to reserve my opinion of Dobson until I've read some of his books, but my initial response was not very positive. I'm using the sears book as a backdrop/resource for my group and am really thankful for the other resources here. Thanks!

Jodi -full time working wife to a SAH Papa; mama to my boys Breck (12/04), David (09/07), and Elliot (01/10); always remembering our loss, Jordyn Justine (09/06)

jmhammond is offline  
#69 of 166 Old 01-30-2006, 11:15 PM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 41,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Has anyone seen the materials "Becoming the Parent God Wants You to Be" by Dr. Kevin Lehman? I know some of his discipline stuff is punishment/reward oriented, but I was curious what the materials were like.

Also, Ross Campbell's "How to Really Love Your Child"- are there "official" parenting class materials for that?

Dh and I keep saying we're going to do a book/Bible study using "The Five Love Languages of Children".

Oh, and Sears has an excellent books called (I think) "The Ministry of Parenting Your Baby," but, sadly, it's out of print.

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#70 of 166 Old 01-30-2006, 11:20 PM
 
DaryLLL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Under a Chimpocracy
Posts: 13,708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There is a GD video called Kids Are Worth It by Barbara Coloroso that is LLL approved and good for discussion. Esp good for schoolage kids.
DaryLLL is offline  
#71 of 166 Old 01-30-2006, 11:24 PM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 41,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
A ha! I knew I had a copy of this.

Parent Project: Tools for Godly Parenting by William and Martha Sears

It's by Lifeways Press. The binder I have says "Birth to 24 months" and "Home Materials," but it's definitely part of a church-based parenting program

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#72 of 166 Old 01-30-2006, 11:26 PM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 41,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Oh, and on the very first page:
Four Goals of Godly Parenting
- to know your child (Ps. 139:1-5)
- to raise a healthy child--physically, mentally, emotionally, socially (Luke 2:52)
- to raise a Godly child (Deut. 6:1-9 and 2 Tim 3:14-15)
- to enjoy being a parent (Proverbs 23:15-16)

Absolutely nothing about putting the smackdown on them.

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#73 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 01:10 AM
 
Mountaingirl3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 430
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Way to go, Penelope! Your letter was well written, clear and powerful.

I feel like we had similar childhoods in some ways. My mom had untreated clinical depression. She felt that I was an extremely difficult, rebellious, lazy, inconsiderate, untruthful child. Dobson helped her decide that my "strong will" needed to be broken and controlled.

I finally realized in my late twenties that I am actually a very sensitive, caring, devoted daughter and person. I was just a normal child, trying to grow up, trying to become my best self.

To me, this James Dobson quote is the absolute opposite of the MDC way:

"[I]t is possible to create a fussy, demanding baby by rushing to pick him up every time he utters a whimper or sigh. Infants are fully capable of learning to manipulate their parents through a process called reinforcement, whereby any behavior that produces a pleasant result will tend to recur. Thus, a healthy baby can keep his mother hopping around his nursery twelve hours a day (or night) by simply forcing air past his sandpaper larynx."

I don't know if any of these authors are Christians, but here are some of my favorite parenting books.

Positive Discipline -- Jane Nelsen
Raising Your Spirited Child -- Mary Sheedy Kurcinka
Raising an Emotionally Intelligent Child -- John Gottman
Playful Parenting -- Lawrence J. Cohen
Kids are Worth it! -- Barbara Coloroso

I hope you get a good response from your church .
Mountaingirl3 is offline  
#74 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 01:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
Penelope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: West Papio Creek Trail
Posts: 12,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie
Oh, and on the very first page:
Four Goals of Godly Parenting
- to know your child (Ps. 139:1-5)
- to raise a healthy child--physically, mentally, emotionally, socially (Luke 2:52)
- to raise a Godly child (Deut. 6:1-9 and 2 Tim 3:14-15)
- to enjoy being a parent (Proverbs 23:15-16)

Absolutely nothing about putting the smackdown on them.


Thanks. I'll see if I can come up with a copy of this and gift it to my pastor. I may sweeten the deal by telling him it was suggested by a Lutheran pastor's wife no need to tell him you're Catholic!

Mountaingirl, thanks. ITA about the similarity of our childhoods. It's not that I don't feel for my mom, you know? I was a bright, high-needs kid and she needed Prozac in the days before Prozac. And personality-wise she and my brother are much more alike - I'm like my dad, with whom she's been angry for the last forty years. But that doesn't make it ok to humiliate me as a way to break my spirit. It has impacted my mothering, my marriage, my self-confidence as an adult... If I do nothing else right as a mother, I'll protect my kids' dignity. And if I can I'll try to get my church to stop advocating Dobson.

Can't give up actin' tough, it's all that I'm made of. Can't scrape together quite enough to ride the bus to the outskirts of the fact that I need love. ~ Neko Case

 
Penelope is offline  
#75 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 02:32 AM
 
klondikesky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: at the clothesline
Posts: 409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hey, Penelope...

Thought I'd let you know we did the How to Talk So Your Kids Will Listen video group workshop last fall at church. PM or call me if you want the contact details for the local course leaders (former ELCA pastor who is currently seminary ph.d. student and his wife)... they may even be able to lend you the series if you like. It was excellent (well, the production values are cheezewhiz, but the info is excellent). Here's a link: http://fabermazlish.com/whatdo.htm

It is 'secular' but it drew several people from the community who are not regular church goers, as well as every parent in the congregation with a child between 2 and 20... And besides, what's un-Christian about treating your children with compassion and respect, like they were created in the image of God or something

Great letter, btw. Hope your pastor listens to reason. Glad they have you to speak up for the little ones.
klondikesky is offline  
#76 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 10:39 AM
 
Wausau74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I see no one responded to the quote from Sears. Based on the logic in most of the posts on this thread, Sears would be an "advocate for beating" children as well since he actually gives a stragety on on to "Develop a Spanking Wisdom" (CP& CC p.378) when a parent decides to spank a child. If Sears did not believe spanking was in the least bit acceptable, I doubt very highly he would give his spanking guidelines. Let's use the same logic for both people.
Wausau74 is offline  
#77 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 10:48 AM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 41,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wausau74
I see no one responded to the quote from Sears. Based on the logic in most of the posts on this thread, Sears would be an "advocate for beating" children as well since he actually gives a stragety on on to "Develop a Spanking Wisdom" (CP& CC p.378) when a parent decides to spank a child. If Sears did not believe spanking was in the least bit acceptable, I doubt very highly he would give his spanking guidelines. Let's use the same logic for both people.
Actually, Sears' past tacit endorsement of spanking/beating/ hitting has been discussed ad nauseum on Mothering is the past. I think it's important to note that he has, in more recent materials, departed from his position, as opposed to Dobson, who just seems to advocate it more as time goes by. Christian Parenting and Child Care is a fairly old book. Furthermore, the one "pro-spanking" thing I read to him seemed to be addressed specifically to Christian parents who thought it was their God-given duty to beat the sin out of their child. He basically said spanking was wrong, and a sign of poor parenting, but if you were going to do it, here was how to do it without killing your child. I disagree, but I can certainly understand his concern that if some parents were going to spank anyway, he might be able to mitigate that decision by making sure they didn't go overboard. You know, as opposed to hitting them with spoons, belts, and paddles.

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#78 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 10:49 AM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 41,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
BTW, Christian Parenting and Child Care was published in 1991.

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#79 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 10:53 AM
 
Wausau74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thank you for that information, my copy says 1997.

I think some on here are mature enough to say we can politely disagree on what is beating and what is spanking.
Wausau74 is offline  
#80 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 10:56 AM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 41,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wausau74
Thank you for that information, my copy says 1997.

I think some on here are mature enough to say we can politely disagree on what is beating and what is spanking.
Hitting is hitting. Period. Just because it might not kill a child, or mark a child, does not make it any less of a violation of a child.

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#81 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 11:26 AM
 
sunnmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: surrounded by love
Posts: 6,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
*
sunnmama is offline  
#82 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 11:27 AM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 41,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Saying that one act in heinously evil compared to an act that's just plain old, garden variety evil does not make the second act any less evil. Just because one act in more violent than another act doesn't make the second act suddenly become unviolent. I'm no good at logic, but even I can see that. It's like one of those psych quizzes that ask "Would you rather set fire to your spouse or run a cat over on purpose?" Both choices suck.

I feel no obligation to anyone to put a fine point on spanking. As a child who was beaten, punched, kicked, pinched, knocked down stairs, and dragged around by her hair, I probably would have welcomed a good ol' fashioned James Dobson style paddling. It doesn't diminish my experience to say that spanking is just as wrong as the stuff I experienced. Perhaps even more so, because it's so insidious and well-accepted. And what happens when a spanking fails to get the desired result? Spank harder.

The purpose of spanking is to hurt a child.

The purpose of beating is to hurt a child.

The purpose of paddling is to hurt a child.

All these things, to get back to the topic on hand, are ungodly.

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#83 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 12:06 PM
 
bu's mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 2,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Penelope...I just wanted to tell you that you letter was excellent...to the point, outlined your concerns, provided options and was well written. It's admirable that you stand up for your beliefs instead of silently boycotting their program. Brava!

Let us know what kind of response you get.
bu's mama is offline  
#84 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
Penelope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: West Papio Creek Trail
Posts: 12,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That's a little like saying, I cannot in right conscience say that slapping my wife across the face is the same as beating her so badly she's put in the ICU.

True. But it doesn't make slapping your spouse *ok* or a good, loving way to resolve conflict.

One reason striking a child is wrong is that it encourages her to accept physical punishment from people who love her. And it encourages boys to see violence by bigger, stronger people against smaller, weaker people as the norm.

eta: this is a general "you" as I understand that you, Wausau, do not have children.

If you really want exposure to alternatives to spanking, I encourage you to visit the Gentle Discipline forum here. If you really want to keep spanking, please admit, if only to yourself, that you are using your strength and power to dominate and hurt another person, one who has no way to escape.

Can't give up actin' tough, it's all that I'm made of. Can't scrape together quite enough to ride the bus to the outskirts of the fact that I need love. ~ Neko Case

 
Penelope is offline  
#85 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 01:25 PM
 
CorasMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Standing on my head
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Penelope and AnnetteMarie,

You are both so wonderfully eloquent and passionate at the same time, ITA, and I could not have said it better! Thank you for standing up for children's rights.

scifi-convention runners Kate, DH Drew 11/07, DD Cora 12/97. We , ,
Welcome to baby Fiona with a giant omphalocele, 6/17/10!
CorasMama is offline  
#86 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 01:34 PM
 
Wausau74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i see your point about spousal abuse.
Wausau74 is offline  
#87 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 01:59 PM
 
spero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: the back of beyond
Posts: 9,921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
:

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
spero is offline  
#88 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 02:07 PM
 
georgia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tl;dr
Posts: 26,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wausau, please empty your PM box. Thanks!

I have retired from administration work, so if you have a question about anything MDC-related, please contact Cynthia Mosher. Thanks!
 
georgia is offline  
#89 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 02:15 PM
 
georgia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tl;dr
Posts: 26,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Has anyone read any of Dobson's account of "disciplining" his twelve pound dachshund? That would be reason enough, no matter what any of his other views were, for me to discount anything he had to say on any matter. Click the Look Inside Feature

I have retired from administration work, so if you have a question about anything MDC-related, please contact Cynthia Mosher. Thanks!
 
georgia is offline  
#90 of 166 Old 01-31-2006, 03:18 PM
 
DaryLLL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Under a Chimpocracy
Posts: 13,708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgia
Has anyone read any of Dobson's account of "disciplining" his twelve pound dachshund? That would be reason enough, no matter what any of his other views were, for me to discount anything he had to say on any matter. Click the Look Inside Feature

I already posted a link to it, Georgia, post #51, but it bears repeating.
DaryLLL is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off