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#61 of 838 Old 12-07-2006, 09:21 PM
 
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Is RastafarI a religion that is only for people of color or people of African descent? Or is it considered open to all, but the "cultural" elements are focused on POC?
ditto to this question and i wonder if it is offensive to the RastafarI to see non-RastafarI with locs?

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#62 of 838 Old 12-07-2006, 10:08 PM
 
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I was curious about Sikhs--do they all wear white and does it "mean" anything?

I tried to post a couple of days ago, and my posts got eaten. So my "answers" about LDS stuff have already been given. Very well, I might add.
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#63 of 838 Old 12-07-2006, 10:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
ditto to this question and i wonder if it is offensive to the RastafarI to see non-RastafarI with locs?
RastafarI is open to all people. The main tenet is to recognize H.I.M. Haile Selassie I, as Jah in flesh and Selassie I was an African, a Black man. So the cultural aspect of RastafarI is all based on the concept of a return to all things African--thinking and lifestyle. Anyone who can embrace that, then, can hail FarI or recognize themselves as RastafarI. In fact, one of my best sistren is White and one of the most serious Rasta I have ever encountered. She wholeheartedly rejects Western thought and ideals and both of us hope to return to Africa to re-settle one day soon.

Most RastafarI do not mind seeing non Rasta with locs because it at least shows that these ones are embracing their African-ness. It's a little disturbing to me at least to see people who are not Rasta and not people of color wearing locks because I think it shows a lack of respect and also an appropriation of an important cultural aspect that is not theirs to appropriate. Personally, I love to see people of color, Rasta or not, wearing their hair in locks instead of weaves, perms and relaxers. It shows that the wearer has come to the overstanding (understanding) that Jah made them the way they are supposed to be.

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#64 of 838 Old 12-07-2006, 11:01 PM
 
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Do LDS practice infant baptism as a removal of original sin? I've always been confused as to why most Christian faiths did this (I was raised Catholic) since babies are so pure, IMO.
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LDS children are not baptised until the age of 8.

i found a great article on the subject... Salvation of Little Children

and a scripture that pretty much sums it up (here)
Age 8+ is when LDS baptize. We believe that until the age of 8 people are "innocent" and not accountable, or - in other words - children under 8 are literally incapable of sinning. LDS doctrine states that the Atonement of Christ (meaning his sacrifice in Gethsemene and Calvary) "covers" - for lack of a better word - children under 8.

There are a couple of scriptures in LDS canon that state this (one of them magstphil already covered) some others are:

Moroni 8:8-15
Doctrine & Covenants 20:71
Doctrine & Covenants 68:25-28

And this is from the LDS Bible Dictionary entry on Baptism:
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The age at which baptism should be administered is not specified in the Bible, although it is evident that candidates were to be old enough to be capable of belief and have some understanding. In latter-day revelation we learn that the Lord has set the age at eight years as the time when a person begins to become accountable and can be baptized (It then quotes the two passages from The Doctrine & Covenants I cited above).
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Not LDS, but, no, I don't believe they do. From what I observed, LDS members get baptized around pre-teen age (I guess when they know right from wrong, can make the decision themselves, etc.). LDS seem to have a different understanding of Adam and Eve than most I've heard from, so it would not surprise me if they were not big on the concept of "original sin", but someone LDS will have to answer that!
Addressing the concept of Original Sin ... we (LDS) do have a different understanding of Adam and Eve. A lot of religions (in the past, I want to clarify that, I'm not sure how exactly they teach it now, but in the past) have villified Eve especially. We believe that Eve recognized that in order to fulfill G-d's Plan the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil needed to be eaten. (We believe that this was "Original Sin" and not some sort of sexual sin because Adam and Eve were married by God in the Garden of Eden (as was expressed in this thread by the answer about the shape of the Challah Bread).)

This is recorded in LDS scripture in The Pearl of Great Price in Moses 5:5-11 (this is after Adam and Eve were removed from the Garden of Eden):

Quote:
5 And he gave unto them commandments, that they should worship the Lord their God, and should offer the firstlings of their flocks, for an offering unto the Lord. And Adam was obedient unto the commandments of the Lord.
6 And after many days an angel of the Lord appeared unto Adam, saying: Why dost thou offer sacrifices unto the Lord? And Adam said unto him: I know not, save the Lord commanded me.
7 And then the angel spake, saying: This thing is a similitude of the sacrifice of the Only Begotten of the Father, which is full of grace and truth.
8 Wherefore, thou shalt do all that thou doest in the name of the Son, and thou shalt repent and call upon God in the name of the Son forevermore.
9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.
10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.
11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.
Also, the Second Article of Faith in the LDS canon states:

Quote:
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
So ... in short ... LDS do not believe in Original Sin and infant baptism because (1) We believe that men will be punished for their own sins and because (2) we children under the age of 8 are pure and sinless in the eyes of God and therefore not in need of baptism which is for the remission/removal of sin.

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#65 of 838 Old 12-07-2006, 11:28 PM
 
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Rootzdawta-- fascinating! A quick question-- does it count if a baby/small child reaches out and touches the locks? My Bella grabbed an older woman's long, silver locks at a farmer's market a few weeks ago. I was embarassed in all the normal ways, but it never occurred to me that she might be violating some kind of spiritual connection... I *love* the antennae, though. I've been calling my nieces' naturally wild hair antennae for a long time.

My hair does not naturally lock; if I was a RastafarI, and wanted to live as naturally as possible, I wouldn't be able to wear locks. What do people with finer hair generally do, then?

NCD-- Okay, I'm sure this will be a touchy one, but here goes: Why was the rule about plural marriages rescinded? If it was for purely political reasons, what do modern-day Saints believe about plural marriage?

Oh! I just realized that I didn't say anything about myself on this thread. I was raised Jewish, but I'm currently practicing Chaos Magick. My husband is a Quaker. The kids are Super Cute and Mini. : (Is there a religion of ridiculously beautiful people who refuse to wear clothing most of the time? That'd be them. )

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#66 of 838 Old 12-07-2006, 11:37 PM
 
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Thanks for the thread, everyone!

For anyone who's Heathen/Asatru/Norse-related, does a person need to be of Germanic/Nordic ancestry to worship your pantheon?
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#67 of 838 Old 12-07-2006, 11:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rootzdawta View Post
The practice of allowing one's hair to lock (basically to not comb one's naturally curly hair) is a tradition of the RastafarI livity (faith/lifestyle). For RastafarI, locks are not to be combed or styled in any way--they are simply allowed to grow out and form. Some RastafarI do separate the locks but some do not. Personally, I will be separating ds' locks simply because it's easier to wash and care for the scalp that way, in my opinion. Anyway, locks are extremely significant in RastafarI culture because they represent a sincere and complete desire to be set apart from Western (European or White) culture. It is a true expression of Blackness since it is the natural texture of African hair that makes locking possible. RastafarI do not shy away from calling locks "dreadlocks" because indeed they are supposed to look dreadful to the eyes of Westerners. RastafarI are not afraid to be separate and even aim for that. One major goal of RastafarI is to "go to the hills" or leave Babylon (the West) for there is no life for African people there--only oppression and sorrow. So wearing dreadlocks is a declaration of separateness and rebellion--and also devotion to HIM Haile Selassie I, emperor of Ethiopia who RAstafarI regard as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the Conquering Lion of the tribe of Judah--manifestation of "God" in flesh. So the locks are also symbolic of a lion's mane or a crown. Another thought on locks is that locks look organic or alive and are often regarded as a reminder to look to one's roots and to be as natural as possible (organic and vegetarian foods, no chemical medicines/drugs). Locks are also seen as "antennae" that connect one to Jah (the Almighty). These days, locks have become fashionable but most RastafarI do not buy into the fashion aspect and wear their locks completely natural (no chemical hair care products, combing or styling). RastafarI sistren generally cover their locks when outside of their gates (homes) and at Binghi (worship service) and most Bredrin also cover their locks when outside but remove the covering at Binghi. Locks are sacred and since they are viewed as antennae, covering keeps strangers eyes from staring and negative, unwanted energy away as well as people from touching (sometimes people will reach and tough locks just because they have never seen them before). Covering the locks then serves as a first line of defense.

Well, I hope that answered the question.

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This is alisaterry on NCDaddy's computer. We know nothing about your faith. Is there a thread here or website where we can learn more?

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#68 of 838 Old 12-07-2006, 11:48 PM
 
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Why do Jews bow at the final verse of Lecha Dodi (the part which goes "bo'i chalah, bo'i chalah"? Lecha Dodi is the most beautiful poem, btw. I've read the English translation, but it's so lovely in Hebrew, it makes me wish I could understand Hebrew. I'd be interested in anyone's ideas on what Lecha Dodi means to them as a Jew, too. (feel free to not answer if that's too personal) The first time I heard it was at a Shabbat service on the beach and I was enchanted.
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#69 of 838 Old 12-07-2006, 11:57 PM
 
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NCD-- Okay, I'm sure this will be a touchy one, but here goes: Why was the rule about plural marriages rescinded? If it was for purely political reasons, what do modern-day Saints believe about plural marriage?
I'm not NCD, but can I pop in the discussion?

If you pop into the LDS Mamas (should also be Dadas ) thread this very day, you'll find over the last few pages a discussion about what modern-day Saints believe about plural marriage. It varies.

Latter-day Saints believe that the current prophet (at the time it was Wilford Woodruff) receives revelation, but there is give and take. I.e., Wilford Woodruff probably would not have been praying about the "issue" of plural marriage affecting politics and even more, the family dynamics of so many polygamists in UT. We believe that he received the revelation that to continue with plural marriage would eventually tear the church apart and have it be destroyed here on the earth, and it was not the Lord's will for that to happen. SO, the guideline was given (i.e., commandment) that church members were to refrain from solemnizing any more plural marriages in the temples or in the Endowment house or anywhere else. It was voted in at the General Conference Oct. 6, 1890.

A lot of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have mixed feelings about the whole situation, the history surrounding it, and plural marriage in general; even if they DON'T believe it was rescinded for political reasons. It seems for most of us to fall into the category of needing to be taken on faith.

I have NEVER felt that I needed to have mixed feelings about this, I've only felt encouraged to read about it, discuss it, study it out, pray about it. I have come to a place where I feel that it will all work out and be explained. On the other side.

I guess that was longer than I anticipated.
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#70 of 838 Old 12-07-2006, 11:58 PM
 
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For anyone who's Heathen/Asatru/Norse-related, does a person need to be of Germanic/Nordic ancestry to worship your pantheon?
Nope. Asherah, for example, worships a different pantheon than her ancestry might suggest (she's a neo-Druid).

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Why do Jews bow at the final verse of Lecha Dodi (the part which goes "bo'i chalah, bo'i chalah"? Lecha Dodi is the most beautiful poem, btw. I've read the English translation, but it's so lovely in Hebrew, it makes me wish I could understand Hebrew. I'd be interested in anyone's ideas on what Lecha Dodi means to them as a Jew, too. (feel free to not answer if that's too personal) The first time I heard it was at a Shabbat service on the beach and I was enchanted.
The bowing during the Shabbos service is to invite the Shabbos Kallah (bride)in (we turn toward the doors and bow) so that Shabbos can begin. I'm sure there's much more to it than that, and I'm just as sure that my own personal take on it is a bit weird.

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#71 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 12:18 AM
 
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Another Pagan here, but since it's not been mentioned yet, I will happily field any questions anyone may have about Unitarian Universalism. Since I am that as well.

"What will you do once you know?"
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#72 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 12:24 AM
 
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I'm not NCD, but can I pop in the discussion?

If you pop into the LDS Mamas (should also be Dadas ) thread this very day, you'll find over the last few pages a discussion about what modern-day Saints believe about plural marriage. It varies.

Latter-day Saints believe that the current prophet (at the time it was Wilford Woodruff) receives revelation, but there is give and take. I.e., Wilford Woodruff probably would not have been praying about the "issue" of plural marriage affecting politics and even more, the family dynamics of so many polygamists in UT. We believe that he received the revelation that to continue with plural marriage would eventually tear the church apart and have it be destroyed here on the earth, and it was not the Lord's will for that to happen. SO, the guideline was given (i.e., commandment) that church members were to refrain from solemnizing any more plural marriages in the temples or in the Endowment house or anywhere else. It was voted in at the General Conference Oct. 6, 1890.

A lot of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have mixed feelings about the whole situation, the history surrounding it, and plural marriage in general; even if they DON'T believe it was rescinded for political reasons. It seems for most of us to fall into the category of needing to be taken on faith.

I have NEVER felt that I needed to have mixed feelings about this, I've only felt encouraged to read about it, discuss it, study it out, pray about it. I have come to a place where I feel that it will all work out and be explained. On the other side.

I guess that was longer than I anticipated.
Wonderful answer Bekka , and sorry ... I don't mean to dominate the LDS answers

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#73 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 12:26 AM
 
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During the Lecha Dodi prayer, we bow towards the West in the direction of the setting sun. Since Jewish days last from sunset to sunset, the setting of the sun indicates the arrival of the Sabbath. So we are bowing to and greeting the bride (the Sabbath/Shabbat/Shabbos). At one time, this prayer was recited in a field in view of the setting sun, and I think some Jews still have this custom today.
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#74 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 12:40 AM
 
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[QUOTE=Mountaingirl3;6711997]Thanks for the thread, everyone!

For anyone who's Heathen/Asatru/Norse-related, does a person need to be of Germanic/Nordic ancestry to worship your pantheon?[/QUOTE

Technically, no. However, Asatru (and the other Northern Heathen/Pagan Religions) encourage it's practice by people of at least some Northern European decent. A good part of their religion includes researching their blood lines, and honoring their ancestors. Although they accept people of other races, I have been told by a fair number, that they will encourage them to find the religion of their ancestors. Some groups may be less vocal about it, but it's not an uncommon belief....

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#75 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 12:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BinahYeteirah View Post
During the Lecha Dodi prayer, we bow towards the West in the direction of the setting sun. Since Jewish days last from sunset to sunset, the setting of the sun indicates the arrival of the Sabbath. So we are bowing to and greeting the bride (the Sabbath/Shabbat/Shabbos). At one time, this prayer was recited in a field in view of the setting sun, and I think some Jews still have this custom today.
You know, that makes so much sense... I never really thought about it as facing west, though of course it is (because the sanctuary is set up so that you're facing east to pray). I thought it had something to do with inviting the Shabbos Bride over the threshold and into the sanctuary.

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#76 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 04:01 AM
 
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Is RastafarI a religion that is only for people of color or people of African descent? Or is it considered open to all, but the "cultural" elements are focused on POC?
My brother is a "white" rastafarI.

But his father though, is a mix of portugeese, dutch, african and latino. (from Suriname).

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#77 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 04:06 AM
 
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I am learning so much here, about LDS, judaism, rastafarI... This is fun! And for a change, nobody ask about islam hehe...

Mother of three little muslims!
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#78 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 04:15 AM
 
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My question is for any Jewish mamas out there ... how does one reconcile circumcision (it's a "commandment" in Judaism, isn't it, or am I way off base with that idea) but how does one reconcile the Jewish imperative (if it is indeed an imperative) to circumcise with the ideas of NFL concerning the same?

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#79 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 04:54 AM
 
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My question is for any Jewish mamas out there ... how does one reconcile circumcision (it's a "commandment" in Judaism, isn't it, or am I way off base with that idea) but how does one reconcile the Jewish imperative (if it is indeed an imperative) to circumcise with the ideas of NFL concerning the same?
This one has been covered in numerous threads; I'll try to sum it up:

Bris Milah is not the same thing as routine infant circumcision, despite arguments to the contrary. In fact, RIC is not kosher and does not fulfil the halachic requirement for bris milah. The two are only peripherally related, in that both involve the foreskin. The requirement (and it is a requirement) is that a baby boy be circumcised on his eighth day* or he will be cut off from his people. It's not a question, it's a statement: it's one of those things that must be done, for the spiritual well being of the child. Other people have different takes on it, but that is [part of] mine.


*The eighth day a child is healthy. A baby who is ill may not be circumcised until he is healthy for eight days.

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#80 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 04:57 AM
 
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I am learning so much here, about LDS, judaism, rastafarI... This is fun! And for a change, nobody ask about islam hehe...
Okay, I have questions about Islam: Years ago, I read the Koran but I don't remember too much. One thing that I do remember is a verse, relatively early on, saying that anyone who knows the one true God (Allah) is saved; Christian, Jew, and two or three other groups that I can't remember. My questions are thus:

1. Saved from what?

2. Do you have any idea how Muslim Fundamentalists reconcile this verse with their behavior?

3. Who are those other groups, mentioned by name?

And a totally unrelated question: How do you pronounce "Eid?"

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#81 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 05:12 AM
 
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This one has been covered in numerous threads; I'll try to sum it up:
Sorry to bring it up again. Just thought it might go over a little better (and a little less inflammatory) here in this thread and looks like I was right!

Thanks for your answer.

My next question is for the Heathen/Ásatrú/Norse-related worshippers, and is two part:

When I hear "Norse religion" I think Odin (Woden, Wotan is one "more correct" than another, BTW?), Thor, Loki, Freyja, Baldr - the Æsir and Vanir - are they still worshipped/venerated in modern worship?

Second part to that ... if the Æsir and Ásynjur and Vanir, etc. are still worshipped/venerated, are you offended by depictions in modern pop culture, for example Marvel Comics' The Mighty Thor or Mr. Wednesday (Odin as a conman and womanizer) in Neil Gaiman's American Gods (Thor also, whom is mentioned in passing as having committed suicide by "blowing his brains out"), or such as in The Sims 2, where a pre-made family has a character named Loki who enjoys making crank calls?

Just curious.

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#82 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 05:20 AM
 
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Don't forget Stargate! Thor is a little gray fellow with big eyes on SG-1. Indeed, all of the Asgaard are little gray guys with big eyes. :

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#83 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 05:25 AM
 
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Don't forget Stargate! Thor is a little gray fellow with big eyes on SG-1. Indeed, all of the Asgaard are little gray guys with big eyes. :
Only saw the movie and that dealt with the Egyptian pantheon.

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#84 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 05:39 AM
 
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Okay, I have questions about Islam: Years ago, I read the Koran but I don't remember too much. One thing that I do remember is a verse, relatively early on, saying that anyone who knows the one true God (Allah) is saved; Christian, Jew, and two or three other groups that I can't remember. My questions are thus:

1. Saved from what?

2. Do you have any idea how Muslim Fundamentalists reconcile this verse with their behavior?

3. Who are those other groups, mentioned by name?

And a totally unrelated question: How do you pronounce "Eid?"
1. Saved from the Hellfire. There are however an oppinion that not all nonmuslims will go to Hell, though, but they will be punished, if they knew about islam but rejected the Truth. Like also muslims will be punished for their evil deds, but eventually saved from the worst part of Hell.

2. No, I dont hehe... Well, okay, the Quran can obviously be read by some people out of context and without thinking history... And they see it as their right to kill... I agree with war (Jihad) if attaced, because Jihad is a defence-war, more than an attack-war, if you see the difference. But the biggest Jihad is still the one we fight every day, against our ego's and our will. Like in the morning, I want to sleeeep, but I have to wake up for prayer. That is Jihad against my ego who wants to sleep.

3. I think its only one more, and that is the zoroastrians, if I am not mistaken... I dont know, I can search on it though. The ones who believe in the One-ness of God, who does not attribute him with partners, son or whatever, who belive in the same strict monoteism of Islam, are among those groups. I do believe the word mentioned in the Quran is just simply "monoteists" in arabic.

And Eid, is pronounced like... Hm... iid, with a litte touch of e on the first i... the i is more hearable than the e, but the e should be there.

However, not all muslims are arabs, and some say idd others say bajram...

Mother of three little muslims!
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#85 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 05:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by eilonwy View Post
Don't forget Stargate! Thor is a little gray fellow with big eyes on SG-1. Indeed, all of the Asgaard are little gray guys with big eyes. :
I never imagined Thor like that hehe... I was brought up with pics of him as a big man, with wild hair, and his hammer held high...

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#86 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 05:51 AM
 
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2. No, I dont hehe... Well, okay, the Quran can obviously be read by some people out of context and without thinking history... And they see it as their right to kill...
I think that that can be said of any book of holy scripture be it the Quran, the Bible, the Book of Mormon or whatever. There is always someone out there that will torque what has been said to suit their fancy. Just think of the people who use the Bible to justify what is - essentially child abuse - "Spare the rod, spoil the child" even though that phrase never actually appears anywhere in the Bible. Go figure. :

"A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." - Tyrion Lannister

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Originally Posted by NewCrunchyDaddy View Post
I think that that can be said of any book of holy scripture be it the Quran, the Bible, the Book of Mormon or whatever. There is always someone out there that will torque what has been said to suit their fancy. Just think of the people who use the Bible to justify what is - essentially child abuse - "Spare the rod, spoil the child" even though that phrase never actually appears anywhere in the Bible. Go figure. :
Thats true!

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#88 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 11:12 AM
 
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In Arabic eid is pronounced eed unless there's a glottal stop I'm missing. There are only three vowel sounds in Arabic - Ah, Ee and Ooo. Those are the short vowels and the long ones are Aaaaaahhhhh, Eeeeeeeeee and Oooooo.

There are consonants that make a vowel sound different like qaf (pronounced cough) and kaf (pronounced like calf but without the "l".) So that explains the pronounciation of al-Qaeda, ideally the Q comes from the back of your throat.
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#89 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 12:41 PM
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It's a little disturbing to me at least to see people who are not Rasta and not people of color wearing locks because I think it shows a lack of respect and also an appropriation of an important cultural aspect that is not theirs to appropriate.

there is a great deal of achreological and other information that demonstates that african peoples were not and are not the only ones who lock/ed their hair. it seems to be a cross cultural, and diverse hair type, phenominon.

it doesn't just belong to people who are african or of african discent or those who are rastifarI. in india, saddhus wear locks for religious reasons, and Indian hair is long, straight, thick, and smooth.

there is some evidence that viking and prior norse/nordic peoples (based on mummified bodies) wore locks, if not on their whole heads, at least a few around their faces. I do not know if they were locked for religious reasons or cultural beauty reasons, but there is a depiction of a priestess with locks in front; she preformed an important religious function.

truth is, locks exist in many cultures and for many reasons. for a non-african, non-rastifari individual to have locks isn't necessarily an "appropriation" of african or rastifarian culture. it could be a choice based on any number of other factors--spiritual or otherwise.

i am white, not rastafari, and i have locks. i love my locks and i got them for spiritual reasons. i wasn't appropriating anything from rastafari culture, or even from the saddhu culture. i'd never considered locks for myself until i had a partiuclar spiritual experience in march that spurred me to getting them. i had a woman start the locks in may, and i've been enjoying them ever since.
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#90 of 838 Old 12-08-2006, 12:50 PM
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mountain girl:

in my opinion, no, an individual needn't be of norse/scandi descent to worship within this pantheon. similarly, to utilize the vedic pantheon, one needn't be hindu or indian.
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