If you religiously oppose masterbation... - Page 6 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#151 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 03:56 PM
 
artgoddess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Suburban hell
Posts: 13,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm so completely confused by the religiously against masturbation thing. I don't get why if God is so omnipotent, he would create our bodies so we could give ourselves such pleasure but then make it a rule not to do so. Wouldn't it have made more sense for an all present all knowing all powerful being to just not create our bodies so that orgasms were possible with alternative forms of gratification if those alternative forms are such a bad thing in his eyes?
artgoddess is offline  
#152 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 04:33 PM
 
holyhelianthus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: the Southern California desert
Posts: 11,082
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
I'm so completely confused by the religiously against masturbation thing. I don't get why if God is so omnipotent, he would create our bodies so we could give ourselves such pleasure but then make it a rule not to do so. Wouldn't it have made more sense for an all present all knowing all powerful being to just not create our bodies so that orgasms were possible with alternative forms of gratification if those alternative forms are such a bad thing in his eyes?
my thought is that we are here to be tested and to learn and grow from our experiences here in this flesh and in this world. part of doing that is taking limitations upon ourselves and exercising restraint. like fasting or taking a vow of silence for x amount of time. we become more aware when we refrain from other things whatever they might be. JMO, though. i don't necessarily see sin as being this list of things we shouldn't do just cause God is a jerk and doesn't want us to be happy. i think they are set out there for several reasons one of which is to help us become a higher being. because i believe we are here to be tested and grow i don't think God set us here along an easy route. that would make the testing and growth process pointless becaue we would be up against nothing at all.

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
holyhelianthus is offline  
#153 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 04:41 PM
 
frog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: where footprints dance in the snow
Posts: 9,229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Never mind. People quicker than I am have already addressed it.
frog is offline  
#154 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 06:13 PM
 
Aura_Kitten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Down by the River...
Posts: 7,244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
In humans, oxytocin ... is released during sexual orgasm in both men and women.
source: http://www.oxytocin.org/oxytoc/

Quote:
Research shows that during ejaculation, men release a cocktail of brain chemicals, including norepinephrine, serotonin, oxytocin, vasopressin, nitric oxide (NO), and the hormone prolactin.
source: http://www.livescience.com/mysteries...sex_sleep.html

Quote:
It is during orgasm in both men and women that oxytocin floods through our bloodstream.
source: http://www.sensualism.com/sex/orgasmic.html





eta ~ i love artgoddess.
Aura_Kitten is offline  
#155 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 06:16 PM
 
fericito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusyMommy View Post
Fair enough.
What happens if you find out one of your kids has been masturbating, though?
I realize that we all have choices and that I have to respect his/her right to make choices I consider wrong ones. However I'd probably sit down with them and discuss why we believe what we believe, how we can deal with those feelings and even encourage him/her to take the matter to the Lord in prayer.

I've gotten through many a trial in my life, even denying myself extreme wants through faith and prayer.

I very much believe in God's power to help us get through anything, if we only ask.

There are a lot of things out there that the "world" is teaching kids is okay to do/say/think and yet that doesn't make it so. I'll teach my kids the best I can, pray my guts out for them and know that they will have to learn things for themselves as well.
fericito is offline  
#156 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 06:17 PM
 
artgoddess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Suburban hell
Posts: 13,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
my thought is that we are here to be tested and to learn and grow from our experiences here in this flesh and in this world. part of doing that is taking limitations upon ourselves and exercising restraint.
Seems a little passive aggressive to me.


Hey you! Pregnant lady! There is a moist delicious chocolate cake on the kitchen counter, now to prove you love me I want you to not eat it.
artgoddess is offline  
#157 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 06:17 PM
 
fericito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
I'm so completely confused by the religiously against masturbation thing. I don't get why if God is so omnipotent, he would create our bodies so we could give ourselves such pleasure but then make it a rule not to do so. Wouldn't it have made more sense for an all present all knowing all powerful being to just not create our bodies so that orgasms were possible with alternative forms of gratification if those alternative forms are such a bad thing in his eyes?
I think magstphil expressed my feelings well but wanted to add that I believe one of our purposes here is to learn to overcome the "natural" man. We all have base desires but learning to control ourselves is empowering - no matter what the situation.

We all have wants and yet we teach our kids that they can't just have everything they want - I don't see this as being that much different.
fericito is offline  
#158 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 06:18 PM
 
artgoddess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Suburban hell
Posts: 13,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten View Post


eta ~ i love artgoddess.
aww thanks:
artgoddess is offline  
#159 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 06:18 PM
 
fericito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
Seems a little passive aggressive to me.
Will you expound? How is that passive aggressive? I'd really like to know as I agree with her.
fericito is offline  
#160 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 06:21 PM
 
ChattyCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Between the pig farms and a swamp!
Posts: 3,986
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
YIKES! It is very sad that someone would circ their son(or daughter) in the hope that they won't masturbate in the future.

Many (most, perhaps almost ALL) people feel the need to masturbate at some point during their lives. Circumcision isn't going to prevent that need/desire. Perhaps, the child's religious convictions will prevent them from doing it, but cutting off a body part (unless it's the hands) isn't going to stop it.

Personally, I will be teaching my children that masturbation is a perfectly normal and healthy way to relieve sexual tension and learn how one likes to be touched. I think that way of looking at it makes for healthier sexual relationships. I think most women would be far more satisfied, if they learned how to please themselves first.
ChattyCat is offline  
#161 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 06:23 PM
 
artgoddess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Suburban hell
Posts: 13,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fericito View Post
Will you expound? How is that passive aggressive? I'd really like to know as I agree with her.
How to explain that I find placing a pleasurable temptation in someones hands yet telling them if they really love you they won't use it? I'm not sure I can explain *how* I find that passive aggressive, I simply do.
artgoddess is offline  
#162 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 06:28 PM
 
Aura_Kitten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Down by the River...
Posts: 7,244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
new response from my mate Evan-san:
Quote:
If G-d opposed masturbation, why did He give us thumbs???

Aura_Kitten is offline  
#163 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 06:30 PM
 
Aura_Kitten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Down by the River...
Posts: 7,244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by momma2emerson View Post
Many (most, perhaps almost ALL) people feel the need to masturbate at some point during their lives. Circumcision isn't going to prevent that need/desire. Perhaps, the child's religious convictions will prevent them from doing it, but cutting off a body part (unless it's the hands) isn't going to stop it.
YES that. thanks for bringing the thread back to center.
Aura_Kitten is offline  
#164 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 07:51 PM
 
Cassiopeia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,059
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
How to explain that I find placing a pleasurable temptation in someones hands yet telling them if they really love you they won't use it? I'm not sure I can explain *how* I find that passive aggressive, I simply do.
P-A and verging on emotional abuse.
Cassiopeia is offline  
#165 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 07:55 PM
 
mshollyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on the dancefloor,under a discoball
Posts: 3,141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yes, but isn't that the whole point of the garden of eden story? so it goes on from there, i guess.
mshollyk is offline  
#166 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 09:19 PM
 
holyhelianthus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: the Southern California desert
Posts: 11,082
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
Seems a little passive aggressive to me.


Hey you! Pregnant lady! There is a moist delicious chocolate cake on the kitchen counter, now to prove you love me I want you to not eat it.
it goes beyond proving love or loyalty. it's about personal growth as well. so asking your SO not to cheat is passive aggressive and wrong? we are asked within our lives and/or for spiritual reasons not to do a lot of things.
as for your example oh boy that would be tempting! but beyond the 'if you loved me you wouldn't eat it' there are many a reason not to indulge in a sugar filled chocolate cake while growing a new life in my womb. but who cares. i'm off to buy one. :

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
holyhelianthus is offline  
#167 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 09:23 PM
 
BusyMommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,943
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No, I can follow that line of reasoning; ie. look at Lent. I was brought up that it's important for us to give up something important to us so that we have some small appreciation of Christ's suffering. And, I do believe we need to teach our kids some self-control; ie. sure, go ahead and eat that entire box of doughnuts but you're going to feel really ill afterwards....
But, I guess I still don't understand why masturbation itself is wrong. Okay, it's the natural man/body. I get that. But, so is self indulging on food, alcohol, clothes, cosmetics, etc etc. So...I suppose that if one valued a spartan, simple, lifestyle w/denial of physical pleasure then that would make sense to me; ie. it is simply one more pleasure we're not allowed to enjoy.

BUt, in and of itself...nope, doesn't make sense if it's just b/c it has a sexual nature.
BusyMommy is offline  
#168 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 09:35 PM
 
holyhelianthus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: the Southern California desert
Posts: 11,082
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusyMommy View Post
No, I can follow that line of reasoning; ie. look at Lent. I was brought up that it's important for us to give up something important to us so that we have some small appreciation of Christ's suffering. And, I do believe we need to teach our kids some self-control; ie. sure, go ahead and eat that entire box of doughnuts but you're going to feel really ill afterwards....
But, I guess I still don't understand why masturbation itself is wrong. Okay, it's the natural man/body. I get that. But, so is self indulging on food, alcohol, clothes, cosmetics, etc etc. So...I suppose that if one valued a spartan, simple, lifestyle w/denial of physical pleasure then that would make sense to me; ie. it is simply one more pleasure we're not allowed to enjoy.

BUt, in and of itself...nope, doesn't make sense if it's just b/c it has a sexual nature.
i totally see what you are saying. i guess for me it comes down to that pleasure is meant to strengethen the bond between couples. it's something in my life that only my husband and i share and that is what i will teach my children. that being said no one can deny that it feels freaking great and that its hard not to take maters into our own hands at times. if you masturbate you're not going to be condemned to hell forever, IMO. it's a sin, again IMO, becuase God has asked us to refrain from it because it takes away from the point of that pleasure and drifts into indulgence. that's my thought on 'why not'. and it's a personal 'why not'. i don't expect everyone to follow my spiritual mindset.

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
holyhelianthus is offline  
#169 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 09:55 PM
 
mama_daba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: west marin. california
Posts: 2,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
the way i see masturbation is it is not just something that feels good. it is a way that i can take care of myself. masturbation can be beautiful and wonderful it can be a form of self love, a way to know one self and what feels good so that you can show your partner new ways to help you feel good. i can't really comprehend how a way of caring for and loving oneself by doing something that can be healing and soothing can be a sin. i don't understand how a god could think that masturbation is wrong? my experience has been that it isn't just something pleasurable it is something that is so much more. i very much hope my children will never feel ashamed of masturbating or think it is wrong or sinful. i would be very sad if they ever felt that way.

and back to the topic
it is very sad that anyone would circumcise a child to try and prevent them from doing something that can be so healthy and good.

mama to two amazing children son 10/27/07 and daughter 07/07/11

mama_daba is offline  
#170 of 472 Old 03-28-2007, 11:34 PM
 
Aura_Kitten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Down by the River...
Posts: 7,244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonfroggy View Post
the way i see masturbation is it is not just something that feels good. it is a way that i can take care of myself. masturbation can be beautiful and wonderful it can be a form of self love, a way to know one self and what feels good so that you can show your partner new ways to help you feel good. i can't really comprehend how a way of caring for and loving oneself by doing something that can be healing and soothing can be a sin. i don't understand how a god could think that masturbation is wrong? my experience has been that it isn't just something pleasurable it is something that is so much more. i very much hope my children will never feel ashamed of masturbating or think it is wrong or sinful. i would be very sad if they ever felt that way.



that's EXACTLY how i feel about it, and it took me YEARS to get past what i went through growing up to reach this state of mind (which by the way were totally worth spending on this particular getting-over-ness...).
Aura_Kitten is offline  
#171 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 12:17 AM
 
klg47's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by klg47 View Post
I'm about 3 pages behind on replies, but I'll try to get to them eventually. . .
Never mind about getting to the replies - it seems that this thread has turned into "If you oppose those who religiously oppose masturbation. . ." instead of "If you religiously oppose masturbation. . ."
klg47 is offline  
#172 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 12:22 AM
 
ChasingPeace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Engaging in Subversive Motherhood
Posts: 2,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have a few thoughts. First, for many women orgasm is difficult and without masturbating I'm not sure how a woman can learn to have an orgasm. I think of masturbation as "self-care."

I also do not think it's possible to discuss the sinfulness of masturbation with children without damaging them with unhealthy shame. Children have sexual feelings which they explore. This is normal and natural and (I think) a positive thing.
ChasingPeace is offline  
#173 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 12:29 AM
 
charmander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Latteland
Posts: 2,507
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
To the OP - why does your friend think uncircumcised men masturbate more than circed men? What evidence does she have?

Believe me, MOST the men I've known - friends & boyfriends - have told me they religiously masturbated (hee hee) during their teen years, and 95% of them were circumicised. Please do not let your friend think that circing her son will prevent masturbating. !!
charmander is offline  
#174 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 12:31 AM
 
artgoddess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Suburban hell
Posts: 13,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by klg47 View Post
Never mind about getting to the replies - it seems that this thread has turned into "If you oppose those who religiously oppose masturbation. . ." instead of "If you religiously oppose masturbation. . ."
I don't think that is true at all, and I find the assumption that people who don't understand why a person would be opposed to masturbation are opposed to the person rather than the idea it's a sin insulting and offensive.
artgoddess is offline  
#175 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 12:34 AM
 
umsami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Capital City
Posts: 10,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just wanted to recommend a book for Moms of boys about to go through puberty...or going through puberty... "What's Going On Down There" by Karen Gravelle (she wrote "The Period Book"). A friend of two sons highly recommends it.

http://www.amazon.com/Whats-Going-Do...5139183&sr=1-1

Mom to DS(8), DS(6), DD(4), and DS(1).  "Kids do as well as they can."

umsami is offline  
#176 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 12:36 AM
 
klg47's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
I don't think that is true at all, and I find the assumption that people who don't understand why a person would be opposed to masturbation are opposed to the person rather than the idea it's a sin insulting and offensive.
I'm 97% sure you knew exactly what I meant, but just in case, I'll rephrase it to "If you oppose the ideas or beliefs of those who religiously oppose masturbation"
klg47 is offline  
#177 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 12:40 AM
 
artgoddess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Suburban hell
Posts: 13,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by klg47 View Post
I'm 97% sure you knew exactly what I meant, but just in case, I'll rephrase it to "If you oppose the ideas or beliefs of those who religiously oppose masturbation"
Actually no, I am not in the habit of assuming people mean something different than what they say. Nice way to try make a dig at me for letting you know I was offended by what you said though.
artgoddess is offline  
#178 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 09:36 AM
 
klg47's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
Nice way to try make a dig at me for letting you know I was offended by what you said though.
In that case, just remember the famous quote: "He who takes offense where none was intended is a fool. And he who takes offense where it was intended is a greater fool." I think MDC would run more smoothly if EVERY member would keep this in mind, me included
klg47 is offline  
#179 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 09:41 AM
 
fericito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasingPeace View Post
I have a few thoughts. First, for many women orgasm is difficult and without masturbating I'm not sure how a woman can learn to have an orgasm.
I hear this from many women and it always makes me so sad. Dh has been my only sexual partner and maybe I just got lucky but I find it (fairly) easy and have always wondered why people say they don't.

Maybe it depends on your partner?
fericito is offline  
#180 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 10:41 AM
 
BusyMommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,943
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
i totally see what you are saying. i guess for me it comes down to that pleasure is meant to strengethen the bond between couples. it's something in my life that only my husband and i share and that is what i will teach my children. that being said no one can deny that it feels freaking great and that its hard not to take maters into our own hands at times. if you masturbate you're not going to be condemned to hell forever, IMO. it's a sin, again IMO, becuase God has asked us to refrain from it because it takes away from the point of that pleasure and drifts into indulgence. that's my thought on 'why not'. and it's a personal 'why not'. i don't expect everyone to follow my spiritual mindset.
Okay, that makes sense to me. : I don't personally agree but I respect that reasoning. It is a personal choice btw couples and as long as you're on the same page, that's healthy.
I would think the teen issue is murkier, though. I would just hope that "abstaining" as a teen doesn't make one rush into marriage just for the sexual gratification; ie. perhaps mast. serves as an outlet so kids can hold off and look for their "soul mate" longer.
This reminds me so much of the "purity ball" thread but I honestly can't remember how it ended. ahhh sweet senility.....
BusyMommy is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off