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#181 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 11:57 AM
 
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okay, what the heck is a 'purity ball'?

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#182 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 12:21 PM
 
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Oh, seriously, do a search on it. I believe it's in TAO. It was HUMONGOUS. I'd love to talk about it but can't. Really interesting discussion and I'm pretty sure it never got closed down. That horse is probl. pretty dead by now, but interesting to read I'd bet.
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#183 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 12:25 PM
 
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searched it and only this thread came up. just one question- is it a literal ball like a baseball or is it a ball as in Cinderella? because i was envisioning the first.

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#184 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 12:34 PM
 
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I didn't read the entire thread, but I thought the idea of circ'ing to prevent masturbation wouldn't work, unless she waited till the first time she caught him masturbating and then had him circumcised! Nah, that wouldn't work either.
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#185 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 02:37 PM
 
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Ball as in gala. They dance w/their father as he pledges to protect her purity and she pledges to do her part.
hmmm maybe it got deleted.
I'll try to search

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ghlight=purity
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#186 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 04:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fericito View Post
I hear this from many women and it always makes me so sad. Dh has been my only sexual partner and maybe I just got lucky but I find it (fairly) easy and have always wondered why people say they don't.

Maybe it depends on your partner?
What exactly do you mean by this?

Are you saying a woman's sexuality is completely dependent upon the quality of her partner? That if s/he's good enough, achieving orgasm should be "(fairly) easy"? Even if that partner has no experience with others (or even with self) to get good enough?

Or perhaps that if you just love your partner enough you'll just easily orgasm no matter what?

I'm really truly trying to understand this point of view. Because the way that I'm reading, it sounds unbelievably simplistic and demeaning to women who struggle with their sexuality.

--Olive
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#187 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 04:46 PM
 
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Ball as in gala. They dance w/their father as he pledges to protect her purity and she pledges to do her part.
hmmm maybe it got deleted.
I'll try to search

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ghlight=purity
i'm sorry, but what does one's father have to do with one's 'purity'? i mean, he can be an example but the pledge to protect her purity is a but...... odd. JMO. i get an imae of the metal chastity bealt in Robin Hood: Men in Tights.

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#188 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 05:41 PM
 
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not trying to be snarky here, but let me see if i can get this: one should abstain from any sort of sexual expression whatsoever until marriage (whenever that may be), hope that one gets a partner who is both able and willing (neither are a given, even in the most loving of relationships), and voila...? and if not?
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#189 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 05:47 PM
 
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not trying to be snarky here, but let me see if i can get this: one should abstain from any sort of sexual expression whatsoever until marriage (whenever that may be), hope that one gets a partner who is both able and willing (neither are a given, even in the most loving of relationships), and voila...? and if not?
As for my religion, yeah, that's truly the basic idea And that includes people who never have an opportunity for marriage in this life. I didn't orgasm for the first 3 years we were married. I would have liked to, of course, but it honestly wasn't a big deal and I can truly say that it didn't affect any area of my life negatively. For whatever reason, the first time we had intercourse after I had my second baby, I was able to orgasm and have ever since. But it didn't effect a change in any area of my life that I can see.
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#190 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 05:57 PM
 
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well, no, of course it wouldn't necessarily affect your life negatively. lots of women go their whole lives without having an orgasm. but i really don't think it is fair to expect others to feel the same way. it would very much have affected my life negatively if i hadn't had that release over the years. and now that i'm in a difficult relationship, i'm thankful i have that or else i'd have nothing, and sorry, i just can't do that. as i said, for me it is a physical necessity, like eating, drinking or sleeping. i can abstain for periods of time, but not permanently.
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#191 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 06:00 PM
 
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i'm sorry, but what does one's father have to do with one's 'purity'? i mean, he can be an example but the pledge to protect her purity is a but...... odd. JMO. i get an imae of the metal chastity bealt in Robin Hood: Men in Tights.
Yeah...totally
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#192 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 06:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mshollyk View Post
not trying to be snarky here, but let me see if i can get this: one should abstain from any sort of sexual expression whatsoever until marriage (whenever that may be), hope that one gets a partner who is both able and willing (neither are a given, even in the most loving of relationships), and voila...? and if not?
To be fair, the LDS church really encourages members to marry young. In Utah, the average age for women to wed is 21.9. Men wait a little longer and have an average marrying age of 23.9. In the US as a whole, the overall average age for first marriage is 25.1 for women and 26.7 for men.

Returned missionaries (usually men) are encouraged to marry and start bearing children as soon as they return. So, while I still *really* disagree with the focus on abstince to the exclusion of anything else here, we are not really talking about 35 year old career women who've never had sex. (Utah also has a high rate of unused degrees - mostly women who've attended college and then decided to be SAHMs without ever entering the workforce.)
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#193 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 06:11 PM
 
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lots of women go their whole lives without having an orgasm. but i really don't think it is fair to expect others to feel the same way. it would very much have affected my life negatively if i hadn't had that release over the years.
I'm wondering if this has anything to do with the intensity of a woman's sex drive. The reason I am curious is because as far as I can tell from discussions on this board and others, I have a much higher sex drive than most women. My sex drive is certainly much higher than my husband's. Yet I don't feel I was affected negatively by my experience. It would be interesting to know what causes a person to feel negatively impacted by not orgasming.
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#194 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 07:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
i'm sorry, but what does one's father have to do with one's 'purity'? i mean, he can be an example but the pledge to protect her purity is a but...... odd. JMO. i get an imae of the metal chastity bealt in Robin Hood: Men in Tights.
don't you know, chastity belts are back in vogue? (search feminste.us/blog ~ they had a few posts about this awhile back... :Puke )
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#195 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 07:11 PM
 
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mshollyk ~ i find i love you too. (and btw, COMPLETELY ot but, you're really cute. ~ i went to your photoblog. wonderful haircut...!)


and ~~ waaait. is someone trying to justify telling others what to do with their sexuality based on differences in sex drive...? what? klg, your last post makes no sense to me. :


i have a fabulously high sex drive, which my partners find difficult at times to keep up with.

i masturbate as frequently as possible.

i negatively impacts nobody (least of all myself ).

i would never impose a non-masturbation rule on anyone, even my followers were i to find that i was a deity one morning.... this is just so absurd.


without going back and quoting all of it, i will simply reiterate that mshollyk and artgoddess have dealt with everything i wanted to say thoroughly and completely.
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#196 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 07:24 PM
 
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and ~~ waaait. is someone trying to justify telling others what to do with their sexuality based on differences in sex drive...? what? klg, your last post makes no sense to me. :
I don't think anyone ever mentioned telling others what to do, other than saying that they would be teaching their children certain principles. This thread was originally directed toward those who will teach their children not to masturbate - it was not ever about whether people think it is OK for others to masturbate or not. The pro-masturbation folks have come in saying "masturbation is OK for everyone because. . . ", but the anti-masturbation folks have restricted the discussion to how or why they will teach their children not to masturbate. I hope that explains this part of the confusion.

Let me try to explain better what I meant about sex drive. mshollyk said that her life would have been impacted negatively by not having the release of orgasm. I am curious what factors in a person's life will cause them to be impacted negatively by not orgasming. I am assuming that it is not related to the intensity of a person's sex drive, because I believe I have a very high sex drive, yet I do not feel I was impacted negatively by not orgasming until age 24. So I was asking what factors might be responsible.
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#197 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 08:06 PM
 
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What exactly do you mean by this?

Are you saying a woman's sexuality is completely dependent upon the quality of her partner? That if s/he's good enough, achieving orgasm should be "(fairly) easy"? Even if that partner has no experience with others (or even with self) to get good enough?

Or perhaps that if you just love your partner enough you'll just easily orgasm no matter what?

I'm really truly trying to understand this point of view. Because the way that I'm reading, it sounds unbelievably simplistic and demeaning to women who struggle with their sexuality.

--Olive
Wow. I tihnk you read WAY too much into my comment. I didn't mean to be offensive or belittle anyone. I was just saying that I feel like I'm lucky that it hasn't been a problem for me. And that it makes me sad that others have this struggle.
The end. Nothing more, nothing less.

I also was saying that maybe it's been easy for me because of my particular partner. I have nothing/no one else to compare it to in order to know if that's the reason or not.

If you see the person I quoted when responding, maybe it makes more sense. IIRC they said that many women masturbate in order to be able to orgasm or learn how to and I was trying to say that for me it's been a different experience.
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#198 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 08:34 PM
 
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I don't think anyone ever mentioned telling others what to do, other than saying that they would be teaching their children certain principles.
Children count as 'others.'
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#199 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 08:37 PM
 
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Children count as 'others.'
Exactly. Which is why I said:

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I don't think anyone ever mentioned telling others what to do, other than saying that they would be teaching their children certain principles.
The word 'other' after the comma is intended to modify the part of the sentence before the comma.

However, the point is moot, because no one on the thread said they would be telling their children what to do The way we put it in my church is that we teach people correct principles and let them govern themselves.
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#200 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 08:39 PM
 
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Exactly. Which is why I said:



The word 'other' after the comma is intended to modify the part of the sentence before the comma.
Your belief is that it modifies it, my belief is that it negates it.
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#201 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 08:42 PM
 
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Aura_Kitten, thanks


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Let me try to explain better what I meant about sex drive. mshollyk said that her life would have been impacted negatively by not having the release of orgasm. I am curious what factors in a person's life will cause them to be impacted negatively by not orgasming. I am assuming that it is not related to the intensity of a person's sex drive, because I believe I have a very high sex drive, yet I do not feel I was impacted negatively by not orgasming until age 24. So I was asking what factors might be responsible.
well, i began having orgasms at age 5, yes 5. not because of sexual abuse or anything like that, i just discovered that a release happened when i did certain things, and once i realized it, i absolutely needed to do it--it was physically painful NOT to. i didn't know it was called "orgasm" and i didn't know it was related to sex or anything like that at all, and my thoughts during it had nothing to do with what we as adults think of as sex. when my mother discovered that i was masturbating at age 7, she told me it was a sin and that i shouldn't do it. i tried not to do it, of course, but the urge was overwhelming and could get to a point where i could think of nothing else, especially once puberty kicked in. yes, i prayed, i fasted about it, i read the bible, i did all sorts of things to avoid it. eventually, i was told at age 17 that i had the demon of lust. despite having a few people try to cast it out, i still couldn't stop masturbating and i felt terrible and ashamed about it. but at least it kept me from having sex before i was ready. and i was able to concentrate on the things that i was supposed to be concentrating on, like schoolwork.

so yeah. i think if i didn't have that release, it would have driven me nuts and i wouldn't have been able to say no when it came to dealing with boys.
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#202 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 08:42 PM
 
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I don't think anyone ever mentioned telling others what to do, other than saying that they would be teaching their children certain principles.
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Children count as 'others.'
Do I take this to mean that you never tell your child what to do?
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#203 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 08:52 PM
 
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Your belief is that it modifies it, my belief is that it negates it.
: Some of these responses are slaying me!! I mean, seriously, I'm just sitting here laughing! I'm truly amazed.
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#204 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 08:53 PM
 
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Do I take this to mean that you never tell your child what to do?
Around her sexual relationship to her own body, I can't think why I would.
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#205 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 08:58 PM
 
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i just discovered that a release happened when i did certain things, and once i realized it, i absolutely needed to do it
That's interesting. Maybe it's the type of thing where you don't know what you're missing until you've experienced it? And once you do experience it, you wonder how you ever lived without it.

I'm curious how many people (men and women) discover orgasm on their own. A friend told me that when she was a teenager in scouts, she went to a weekend retreat. There was a presenter there who explained in great detail how to masturbate. Obviously if she was going around doing presentations on it, then it's not universal that people discover it (particularly to the point of orgasm) on their own. Of course I can't remember what I did as a toddler, but I don't ever recall discovering masturbation on my own.
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#206 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 09:02 PM
 
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In that case, just remember the famous quote: "He who takes offense where none was intended is a fool. And he who takes offense where it was intended is a greater fool." I think MDC would run more smoothly if EVERY member would keep this in mind, me included
It would also run more smoothly if people took responsibility for their words.
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#207 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 09:04 PM
 
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: Some of these responses are slaying me!! I mean, seriously, I'm just sitting here laughing! I'm truly amazed.
Well, this thread is actually making me quite sad. I think I need a break.

--Olive
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#208 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 09:08 PM
 
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It would also run more smoothly if people took responsibility for their words.
:
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#209 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 09:09 PM
 
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Well, this thread is actually making me quite sad. I think I need a break.--Olive
Sorry about that. I tried to break away before it came to this, but MDC sucks me in. I'm also very saddened; obviously for different reasons than you. It's easier for me to just laugh than express my sadness.
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#210 of 472 Old 03-29-2007, 09:10 PM
 
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i'm not saying it's universal, but you never know, everyone is different. i don't know how i got so lucky but it really was a problem trying to make the beliefs that i was taught fit with what was an overwhelming need. i carried a lot of shame and guilt for a lot of years about it because i just couldn't help it no matter what i did. i really wish that my mom hadn't made such a big deal about it because it just made me feel worse. i was a good kid in so many ways, but this was my "weakness" and i can't tell you how awful i felt when i "gave in to temptation." and this was at 7, 8, 9 years old. i would never want to impose that kind of thing on my kids. it's such an intensely personal thing, and just because your particular experience is one thing, doesn't mean that your kids' experiences will be the same.
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