politics and religion, why are they intertwined? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 18 Old 06-19-2007, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
jennica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was raised in a religion that didn't believe in getting involved in politics. They thought politics, and politicians were corrupt, or even satanic, and that we should be ruled by a theocracy, and not by man, etc. It was a good theory if you believe in God and the bible, but I don't live in that reality anymore, so, I need to learn a little bit about politics now that I feel a new responsibilty to vote for the sake of my son's future.

So, I have some questions. I know politics and religion are sensitive, or emotional subjects for people, but hopefully we can keep it nice

1. Why do conservative christian groups only vote republican?

2. Do all republicans believe in pro-life?

3. Do all democrats believe in pro-choice?

4. Do conservative christians vote soley on the basis of the abortion issue? If so, why is it more important to save fetuses as opposed to soldiers or iraqi savilians or the human race (I've noticed that republicans are more often pro-war, anti-environmental)?

5. Is there something else, other than abortion issues, that the republican party offers that appeals to conservative christians?

6. Is there something else, other than abortion issues, that the democratic party offers that is not aggreable to conservative christians?
jennica is offline  
#2 of 18 Old 06-19-2007, 05:46 PM
 
spughy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 5,293
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, I'm Canadian so we don't have democrats and republicans, we have the slightly more aptly termed liberals and conservatives, plus the New Democrats (quasi-socialists) and the Green party (hard to describe really).

But I'll give your questions a shot. Please bear in mind that I personally am fairly non-religious, and if I have religious leanings they are in the direction of paganism, so I can't provide much of a Christian viewpoint, but rather an outsider's view of things.

I would like to start by saying that a theocracy IS a political system. There's no way of getting around that god->man transmission problem without intermediary humans and they invariably put their own spin on god's word no matter how touched by the divine they are. Anyone who thinks otherwise is demonstrably delusional.

Political systems are all about power - who has it, and how much.

1. Conservative Christians mostly vote republican because republicans are mostly conservative, either fiscally or socially or both. By fiscally conservative I mean generally concerned with the status quo economic structure in which regulatory bodies when they exist mostly serve to enhance the ability of large industry to survive and thrive. Conservatives frequently bill themselves as supporters of free enterprise, but this is usually a smokescreen for policies that support big business under the guise of free enterprise. Big business typically provides a lot of financial support to conservative political agendas in both our countries. Social conservatives strongly oppose social change, particularly social change which threatens their power. Social conservatives opposed female suffrage, women's rights generally, workforce equalization policies, racial desegregation, affirmative action policies, gay rights, etc. Basically anything that gives power to anyone who's not a straight rich white man, social conservatives tend to oppose. The Republican party, being generally comprised of social conservatives, tends to support socially conservative policy.

2. No, not all republicans are pro-life. Some people are republican only because of the fiscal-conservative reason, and they sometimes support a woman's right to abortion because it makes more economic sense to terminate unwanted pregnancies than support them with welfare.

3. Not sure about this one. I think there are probably some pro-life democrats, but they probably aren't the ones protesting outside of abortion clinics or demanding abortion be outlawed. They'd be making the choice for themselves, not for others. I think. I could be wrong.

4. I highly doubt all conservative christians vote solely on the abortion issue, but some of them probably do. I have no idea why they think fetuses are more important than actual people. It's always baffled me. However, there's a lot more than anti-abortion policy going for the republican party from a christian conservative point of view. You've got the whole "blow up the heathens" policy, for starters. (Why pro-war? Because we're not fighting Christians.)

5. Power. Assurances that their views and their demographic (not just anti-abortion, but things like education policies that keep people ignorant (creation "science" anyone?)) will be propagated for as long as possible. Assurances that their views will always be the ones permeating the media, education, entertainment, etc.

6. Loss of power (real or imagined, doesn't really matter). Giving special considerations to people who are NOT in the majority - non-whites, women, homosexuals, religious minorities. Political policies that even start to hint that things like environmental protection might just possibly be 1/10 as important as continued economic growth.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of republicans in your country or conservatives in mine, so sorry if this is a bit biased, but you're not going to get an UNbiased opinion from anyone. It's up to you to figure out whose bias you share Good luck with that!

Politics is more than religion, and religion is more than politics, but they DO overlap to a huge extent. Trying to keep one out of the other is a bit futile, but it's certainly a noble goal.

Postpartum doula & certified breastfeeding educator, mama to an amazing girl (11/05) and a wee little boy (3/13).

spughy is offline  
#3 of 18 Old 06-19-2007, 07:38 PM
 
lilyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 18,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
1. Why do conservative christian groups only vote republican? They are generally more inclined to provide educational choices (so that everynoe at least has the option of religous education. this includes homeschooling choices as well as vouchers etc) They are generally pro-life of course. These are two issues very important to evangelical Christians.

2. Do all republicans believe in pro-life? No

3. Do all democrats believe in pro-choice? No

4. Do conservative Christians vote solely on the basis of the abortion issue? If so, why is it more important to save fetuses as opposed to soldiers or Iraqi civilians or the human race (I've noticed that republicans are more often pro-war, anti-environmental)?

I am very pro-environment. I wouldn't say republicans are anti-environment, its just not so much a priority. I personally can do something about the environment. and all the laws and restrictions will not overcome people not choosing to do something about it. but the shedding of innocent blood (abortion) is something I will fight over all else. Nothing else is even remotely as important. regardless of anything else a candidate has to offer me (although this is not so important in local politics) I need to know if they are going to fight for the lives of babies. I will put up with a lot of crap to end that.

5. Is there something else, other than abortion issues, that the republican party offers that appeals to conservative Christians? I vote republican less for what it offers and more because it fights a lot of the liberal stuff I don't like. I am not a fan of socialized medicine, I would like to ditch or at least severely revamp social security with an opt out option, I believe a lot of things in place to protect employees runs small business out of business.



6. Is there something else, other than abortion issues, that the democratic party offers that is not agreeable to conservative Christians?
they seem to have a better track record with the environment and better welfare ideas. but it isn't enough for me to over look the whole abortion thing.



I think adding more laws and taking everyones money via taxes etc and redistributing it via social programs is not going to change anything. i think a lot of people thing welfare is the churches job and a lot of churches and para church organizations are doing an amazing job with that. And I think the republican party supports that ideal better. and allows people more freedom to donate where they see fit and more freedom to help as they see need.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

lilyka is offline  
#4 of 18 Old 06-19-2007, 07:50 PM
 
Snowdrift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,669
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennica View Post
4. Do conservative christians vote soley on the basis of the abortion issue? If so, why is it more important to save fetuses as opposed to soldiers or iraqi savilians or the human race (I've noticed that republicans are more often pro-war, anti-environmental)?
This is why I abstain from voting. I am pro-life and pro-human rights for: fetuses, soldiers, prison inmates, released sex-offeneders, single parents, poor people, gay people, people with disabilities, immigrants, people who make unorthodox choices, unconventional families, people with illness, children, and small puppies. Well, not so much the human rights for the puppies, but ya get the idea

There is no political party that I can in good conscience vote for, since all of them make it a part of their rhetoric to be against life or human rights for some of the above, be it through abortion or being "tough on crime" :

I guess I'm a concientious objector to the political process in this country.
Snowdrift is offline  
#5 of 18 Old 06-19-2007, 09:40 PM
 
Janelovesmax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: with water bugs.
Posts: 2,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm a Christian, but I don't belong to a political party. I don't vote for a candidate because he belongs to a specific party, I vote for a canditate because I like what he/she stands for and agree on most of the issues.
Janelovesmax is offline  
#6 of 18 Old 06-20-2007, 12:11 AM
 
holyhelianthus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: the Southern California desert
Posts: 11,082
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
don't have a lot of time but in regards to #1 i am LDS which is very conservative and i have conservative values but politically both DH and i are left leaning, although we don't belong to any party and vote based on the issues not the party itself.. we feel our values are just that OUR values and there is no need to force feed the rest of the world what we feel is "right". i just don't think things are as easy as 'right' and 'wrong'. life, more specifically politics, isn't that black and white. we feel as long as someones privates issues are their own and don't affect others then there is no social problem and it's none of anyone's beeswax. on the economical front along with other issues we really feel this "every man for themselves" mentality that we see in the right leaning politics is, well, anti-Christian. : don't get me wrong, all sides have their issues with us but conservatism in politics seems to have the most in our opinion.

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
holyhelianthus is offline  
#7 of 18 Old 06-20-2007, 06:00 AM
 
Leylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern Georgia
Posts: 332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was raised as a VERY conservative Christian, and in my own life keep those same values.

However, along the way I realized I cannot in good faith push those same values on others. SO while personally I will agree w/ many republican issues, I will vote towards the left. Becasue in voting I am asking for the issue/person I am voting for to be a representative of a larger entity than my family.

For instance in my own personal life I am pro life. However in a broader aspect I am pro choice. But along with the choice for termination comes the choice to keep the baby. However if women are choosing to keep their babies, for whatever reason, we should offer services to help them raise their child.

But to me voting is about what is best for everyone, not just myself.

Steph
Leylla is offline  
#8 of 18 Old 06-20-2007, 02:50 PM
Banned
 
accountclosed3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,906
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
most of these questions have major grey areas. and btw, a theocracy is political.

anyway, the reason that politics and religion are entertwined--at least for me--is because evevrything that i am and do stems out of my sense of self which is spiritual in nature. therefore, my political views come out of this.

it should be noted that the republican party has been hijacked by weird ideas. the most basic construct of republicanism used to be about small federal government and more localized rule (state). with this, there was a strong sense of fiscal responsibility. the idea is that local people know what is best environmentally, culturally, medically, educationally, etc for their area--better than a big government in a centralized location will. and thus, the money would stay local, be spent local, as determined by the local people. Thus, people in NH were not making or creating policy by whihc people in AZ had to live and vice-versa.

to me, republicanism of this form makes *a lot* of sense. but neo-con 'republicanism' where we're focused on certain issues such as abortion (and a myriad of other religious issues that are frighteningly mixing church and state), that's built on a government of excess and excess spending, and that is basicly completely out-of-hand--this is not a republicanism that i can support.

the democratic party, on the other hand, is generally for a larger centralized government that promotes a more socialist state and where all citizens are provided the same benefits and responsibilities of every other citizen regardless of their location and hte culture therein. all the respresentatives come together to decide what the national standards will be, and everyone follows this. they tend to be fiscally responsible, but they tend not to run on surpluses as they strive to support the various government movements to support and provide for all citizens.

interestingly enough, as republicans have changed, so also have dems. the last time we had a balanced budget and a surplus was because of the democratic party under clinton. they really stepped up in fiscal responsibility while still maintaining many national programs.

the real struggle that the dem party has is finding cohesion. the truth is, the party is liberal saying that everyone's opinion has voice. the problem is it seems not to have 'integrity' (as many say), but this is not the case. the basic idea is founded on the very liberal concepts of our government, but simply stating that this can be better managed through a larger centralized government rather than through a smaller central gov and more local management.

honestly, i'd like to see a combination of the two--more local rule, with more opportunity for legal/cultural diversity.

for my own part, i vote based not on parties but on candidates themselves, their experience, their platforms, and their ability. i've voted for independent, dem, and repub candidates in the last few elections at all levels of government.

i simply vote for that which i think is best for my location, my state, and my country. it's never a single issue vote for me (though one of my clients tried to tell me "the war is not the only issue" and i said "i'm not voting against him because of the war issue, i'm voting against him because of the environmental issue." and she was shocked! duh, as if there's only one reason not to vote republican).

anyway, there's that. and no, not all conesrvatives vote the same.
accountclosed3 is offline  
#9 of 18 Old 06-21-2007, 01:26 AM
 
Tata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: in a little nook
Posts: 1,320
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Spughy, what you say about power, who holds it and who does not, are exactly it.

Religion is used by politicos to control those who believe in that particular religion. Politics is used by the religious leaders to control those who are outside of their religion and need to be made to conform to their belief system. Religion is different from spirituality as religion is set up with rules. This lends it as a useful tool to control a population. Not that a religion is bad, but there will always be those who abuse the religion for personal gain, and those who for whatever reason, are eager to follow them.

Power.
Control.

Those words answer all the questions.

"To lose the sense of sacredness of the world is a mortal loss. To injure our world by excesses of greed and ingenuity is to endanger our own sacredness."    Ursula K. Le Guin
Tata is offline  
#10 of 18 Old 06-23-2007, 01:35 AM
 
~~Mama2B~~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 1,049
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm a Torah observant Messianic, but I was raised Baptist and Republican. Now I don't vote, but I'll give you my perspective anyways.

1. Why do conservative christian groups only vote republican?
They don't. Lots do, since recently abortion and gay rights have totally eclipsed every other issue for a lot of people. Lots of my Christian friend vote simply based on those issues.

2. Do all republicans believe in pro-life? No.

3. Do all democrats believe in pro-choice? No.b

4. Do conservative christians vote soley on the basis of the abortion issue? If so, why is it more important to save fetuses as opposed to soldiers or iraqi savilians or the human race (I've noticed that republicans are more often pro-war, anti-environmental)?
Some do. The reason a lot of Bible-believers are okay with war and not with abortion is simply what's found in the Bible. Often in the Bible infertility is viewed as a curse and lots of children are a sign of blessing. Also, because castration and the crushing of the testicles is forbidden some Bible blievers (myself included) take the quiverful or at least non-bc approach as well as a pro-life stand. On the other hand, God is wrathful and violent in times of war, so Christians can't really say that's wrong, ykwim?

5. Is there something else, other than abortion issues, that the republican party offers that appeals to conservative christians?
Hype. Big televangelists like Jerry Falwell and James Dobson actively support and promote the GOP as God's people. Especially if the candidate in question is a consevative Christian it's just too good to be passed up. Also there is the gay rights issue, which attracts about as much attention as abortion for some.

6. Is there something else, other than abortion issues, that the democratic party offers that is not aggreable to conservative christians?[/QUOTE]
It's liberal- that means gay rights, feminism, rebelious youngsters, single parents, anti-religion, no-Christian religion, evolution, etc. The whole package is very incongruent with conservative Christianity.

Personally, I don't vote on candidates; only issues. I do this for three reasons:
First, there is no candidate who will fullfill my personal desire for the nation. If I vote for candidate Smith, for example, and he sells off ANWR to the highest bidder, that blood is on my hands. A person can't be relied upon to do what I expect, wheras an issue is regulated and can't change without approval (ie. Do you want to cut funding to the public schools' music dept? Y or N?).
Second, the Bible says not to support evil. Well, if I believe that abortion is evil and that screwing over the poor is evil, how can I vote for either D oe R? The Dems will help the poor, but they'll allow abortion. The Reps will outlaw abortion, but won't care for the poor. Both are cruel and against my religioys beliefs.
Lastly, IMO my religious beliefs are personal. I don't feel it's fair to push my beliefs on others- let alone the whole nation. For example, I keep shabbat/sabbath because the Bible says to. However, who am I to force people who don't believe the way I do to keep MY day of religious observence? It feel the same to me when I try to make moral decisions for the nation.
Just my opinon.

Kristi

Kristi wife to Mal , mom to Ziva (4/07) (3/08) Aliyah (1/09) and somebody new (edd 11/10). I
~~Mama2B~~ is offline  
#11 of 18 Old 06-23-2007, 03:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
jennica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't get it though. Why are gay rights so bad? I mean if your a conservative christian and you don't think that being gay is right, then don't be gay. It's as simple as that. But why try to stop other people that are not your religion from being who they are? And I mean, aren't you pro-marriage, so let gays get married! Isn't it better and more moral (according to some religions) to be committed to one person as opposed to sleeping around? And if your a conservative christian and you think abortion is wrong, then don't have one. But why try to stop others from having them? Maybe it is killing, or maybe it isn't, depending on how you look at it, but it is a personal choice and they will do it whether it's legal or not, so why even try stopping it? No one can stop abortion anymore than they can stop people from being gay. It's a loosing battle and a waste of energy.

Why can't we just put those issues aside and focus on something that we CAN do something about. The bible is against wars, it's against killing, and it's against man ruining the earth, so why do conservative christians not care about these issues to the point where they vote for someone who does nothing about them? Isn't it more important that our sons not be sent to war to be killed or to kill? Isn't it more important that our children who are already here can grow up and have a future and be able to live on a planet that wont self destruct on them?

I guess I just see this as a huge contradiction. I can't wrap my brain around why one or two issues is so important that it doesn't even matter who the canditate is, you have to vote for them because of those issues. But there are other equally as appaling things going on in the world that the canditate that you voted for is either endorsing, or doing nothing about. I can really see the wisdom in remaining nuetral, but I feel compelled to vote for one pressing reason. I will just vote on the environmental issues, because it seems that is the most pressing issue and the one with the most human lives at stake.
jennica is offline  
#12 of 18 Old 06-23-2007, 07:29 AM
 
Leylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern Georgia
Posts: 332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I understand your frustration...as George Carlin says, "Gey people are less likely to have abortions than the general public...You'd thing the extreme right would want to buddy up to them."

But just know that there are Religious people out there who don't think this way. We may not be the majority, but we are gaining in strength daily.

I do vote, but I do always feel like I am choosing between the lessor of two evils. And I have a hard time since on social issues I tend to lean far to the left, and on economic issues to the far right. (The real right, not modern day GWB right)

But I think people would do much better to realize that the seperation of Church and State is a two way street. Just like I don't want the church determining policitcs, I don't want politicians determining my religion.

Steph
Leylla is offline  
#13 of 18 Old 06-23-2007, 02:34 PM
 
~~Mama2B~~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 1,049
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennica View Post
I don't get it though. Why are gay rights so bad? I mean if your a conservative christian and you don't think that being gay is right, then don't be gay. It's as simple as that. But why try to stop other people that are not your religion from being who they are? And I mean, aren't you pro-marriage, so let gays get married! Isn't it better and more moral (according to some religions) to be committed to one person as opposed to sleeping around? And if your a conservative christian and you think abortion is wrong, then don't have one. But why try to stop others from having them? Maybe it is killing, or maybe it isn't, depending on how you look at it, but it is a personal choice and they will do it whether it's legal or not, so why even try stopping it? No one can stop abortion anymore than they can stop people from being gay. It's a loosing battle and a waste of energy.

Why can't we just put those issues aside and focus on something that we CAN do something about. The bible is against wars, it's against killing, and it's against man ruining the earth, so why do conservative christians not care about these issues to the point where they vote for someone who does nothing about them? Isn't it more important that our sons not be sent to war to be killed or to kill? Isn't it more important that our children who are already here can grow up and have a future and be able to live on a planet that wont self destruct on them?

I guess I just see this as a huge contradiction. I can't wrap my brain around why one or two issues is so important that it doesn't even matter who the canditate is, you have to vote for them because of those issues. But there are other equally as appaling things going on in the world that the canditate that you voted for is either endorsing, or doing nothing about. I can really see the wisdom in remaining nuetral, but I feel compelled to vote for one pressing reason. I will just vote on the environmental issues, because it seems that is the most pressing issue and the one with the most human lives at stake.
That's what I was just saying:

"Lastly, IMO my religious beliefs are personal. I don't feel it's fair to push my beliefs on others- let alone the whole nation. For example, I keep shabbat/sabbath because the Bible says to. However, who am I to force people who don't believe the way I do to keep MY day of religious observence? It feel the same to me when I try to make moral decisions for the nation."

Plus, like I said, I'm not a Christian or a Republican. I was just answering from my prior experience as both. If you were responding to me, you didn't read my post very well at all...

Kristi

Kristi wife to Mal , mom to Ziva (4/07) (3/08) Aliyah (1/09) and somebody new (edd 11/10). I
~~Mama2B~~ is offline  
#14 of 18 Old 06-23-2007, 03:04 PM
 
ktbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NOVA
Posts: 2,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is the kind of conversation that would make my proper Southern grandmother's head explode. There's an axiom: Ladies don't discuss religion, and they don't discuss politics. It's just not polite.

There's some truth in that. It's NOT polite, because it's so subjective and no one can seem to agree or converse politely about things that they feel so strongly about. Mercifully, this particular discussion has stayed nice and civil. I hope it stays that way.

Politics and religion have been intertwined since the beginning of religious history. The emperors of ancient Rome governed under divine mandate - the people believed that the emperor was a demigod and would go and dwell on Olympus with the gods after his death. Since the beginning of the Papacy the entire office has been rife with political maneuvering; in much of the Middle Ages and even into the Enlightenment era, the Pope was as much a political leader as he was a religious authority. Likewise, the Church has long been a tool of political manipulation and social oppression. The Catholic Church is still the single richest entity in the world, and the single largest land owner. To hear the myth, the United States itself was founded because of a religious disagreement. (That's not the entire truth, as students of history are well aware). Politics and religion have been holding hands forever.

The state of the situation today is ugly, to put it mildly. In the early 1980s, people like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson got together with people like Ralph Reed, Jack Abramoff (yes, THAT Jack Abramoff), and Grover Norquist to politically marry the Republican party to what was then known as the Moral Majority (the forerunner to today's evangelical political movement). They were instrumental in why people today think Reagan was a great president; they were instrumental in bringing the abortion rights issue to the forefront of the political agenda, and most importantly were instrumental in bringing political evangelism back into the everyday Sunday church service. A quarter-century later, we have a situation in which megachurch preachers regularly preach issue politics to their congregations, framing it in the context of a "culture war" and fostering the "us versus them" atmosphere we currently see in today's electorate. While evangelicals are not even close to a majority of the country's eligible voters, they turn out in huge numbers, they tend to answer pollsters, and tend to write more letters. It's a case of what political scientists call the "vocal minority" - or as we say in the common vernacular, the squeaky wheel gets all the grease.

Most Americans are FOR abortion rights and civil rights for homosexuals, but you would never know that by polls or elections because of the vocal minority phenomenon. A current trend we are beginning to see is that a portion of the evangelical movement is turning its back on the Republican party, for a variety of reasons (some don't think they've done ENOUGH to restrict abortion rights or gay rights; some think the Iraq war is so anti-Christian that they want those responsible taken to task; and still others feel that the corporate oligarchy who holds the Republican party in its pocket runs counter to the Christian ideals of helping the poor and being stewards of the Earth).

That was long. There's more if you want to hear it.

Personally, I used to be a voting libertarian, but now I feel the future of the country is too important to use my vote on a third-party candidate when that would take votes away from the Democratic party (like what happened in 2000). So I'm registered Independent, and usually vote Democrat or Libertarian. I'm pro-family (ALL families of ALL stripes!), pro-woman (ALL women, rich or poor!), and pro-choice (ALL choices, to terminate or to deliver). I'm anti-death penalty, anti-free trade, and anti-war. No candidate meets all my criteria, but none ever can, so I vote election to election, sometimes one party and sometimes the other. But this time out I support the Democratic party in the 2008 presidential election. To me, it would be a disastrous choice to put another Republican in the White House after what we've been through the last 6 years.
ktbug is offline  
#15 of 18 Old 06-24-2007, 02:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
jennica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~~Mama2B~~ View Post
That's what I was just saying:

"Lastly, IMO my religious beliefs are personal. I don't feel it's fair to push my beliefs on others- let alone the whole nation. For example, I keep shabbat/sabbath because the Bible says to. However, who am I to force people who don't believe the way I do to keep MY day of religious observence? It feel the same to me when I try to make moral decisions for the nation."

Plus, like I said, I'm not a Christian or a Republican. I was just answering from my prior experience as both. If you were responding to me, you didn't read my post very well at all...

Kristi
No, sorry, I wasn't responding to you. I liked what you said and I agreed with it. I was just kind of adding more to my original post after reading the comments that it got. Sorry that wasn't clear.
jennica is offline  
#16 of 18 Old 06-24-2007, 02:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
jennica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
ktbug,

That is all very fascinating. I agree about not voting for a third party in the upcoming presidential election. Do you have to register as something? How do you know what the options are, and what the definitions of those options are? I am totally ignorant about politics, as you can probably see.
jennica is offline  
#17 of 18 Old 06-25-2007, 01:26 PM
 
ktbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NOVA
Posts: 2,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennica View Post
ktbug,

That is all very fascinating. I agree about not voting for a third party in the upcoming presidential election. Do you have to register as something? How do you know what the options are, and what the definitions of those options are? I am totally ignorant about politics, as you can probably see.
For the primary elections (choosing a candidate to represent each party), the requirements vary from state to state. Some states have what are called open primaries, where anyone regardless of party registration may vote; other states have closed primaries, where you must be a registered member of either party to vote in that party's primary. However, after the conventions and each party has chosen their candidate, when you go into the booth in November of 2008, you do not have to declare any kind of party affiliation, and there will be as many as 10 names on the presidential ballot.

As far as knowing your options ... well ... heh. It's very hard to stay informed these days in an objective manner. So many news sources are biased one way or the other. A pretty good way to see what's what is to seek out the platform of each candidate you might consider (usually available on the candidate's web site), or each party you might be interested in learning more about. For instance:

The Democratic party web site http://www.democrats.org/
The Republican party web site http://www.gop.com/
Libertarian party (just to get an idea of who they are) http://www.lp.org/
Green party http://www.gp.org/
Constitution party http://constitutionparty.com/
Communist party of the USA http://www.cpusa.org/
Reform party http://www.reformpartyusa.org/

You could also visit the web sites of the particular candidates for each party, who are currently:

Democrat - Hillary Rodham Clinton, Barack Obama, John Edwards, Joseph Biden, Dennis Kucinich, Christopher Dodd, Mike Gravel, and Bill Richardson

Republican - Rudolph Giuliani, John McCain, Mitt Romney, Tommy Thompson, Ron Paul, Duncan Hunter, Mike Huckabee, Sam Brownback, and a slew of other undeclared, under-the-table, or wait-and-see candidates who are not yet officially in the running.

Good luck forming an opinion, and no matter what you wind up deciding, I urge you to vote in 2008. Democracy doesn't work unless the electorate does their job.
ktbug is offline  
#18 of 18 Old 07-18-2007, 03:22 AM
 
beansricerevolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Taken from The irresistible revolution by Shane Claiborne
because he writes wonderfully and expresses my feelings I often cannot type on a computer

"as the people of God, we are building a new society in the shell of the old, the New Jerusalem, the city of God. This is essentially a political act. Without a doubt, envisioning the radical countercultural values of Gods kingdom is by essence political. Imagine the Gospels with every mention of king, kingdom, Lord, Savior, crowns, banners, and throns all edited out. A Gospel that is not political is no Gospel at all. The root of the word allegiance means "lord"; thats exactly what the early Christians were executed for, for pledging an allegiance to another kingdom, another Lord-treason. In 2004, as the presidential election rolled around, many of us studied the scriptures and considered what it means to claim Jesus as Lord, or as president. When people asked who I voted for I would say "My president has already ascended the throne and has already delivered his State of the Union address. I don't believe that God needs a commander-in-chief or a millionaire in Washington, and I have little faith that either of the likely options will incarnate Beatitudes, the Sermon on the Mount, and the fruit of the spirit. I will declare my allegiance from the mountain tops, joining the chorus of the saints and the martyrs. And I will raise the banner of love above all the flags." After all we vote everyday by how we live, what we buy, and who we pledge allegiance to."
beansricerevolt is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off