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#91 of 107 Old 09-28-2007, 04:10 PM
 
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The article that Nova posted a link to sums it up pretty well. I wanted to add that many forms of birth control, including "the pill", are abortificients. I don't think I need to tell you that abortion goes against Catholic teaching.
ACTRULLY there is no minsion of abortion in the bible, and the thy shalt not murder does not apply because the bible doesnt consider it a life untell it is born and breaths a breath of life.
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#92 of 107 Old 09-28-2007, 04:13 PM
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ACTRULLY there is no minsion of abortion in the bible, and the thy shalt not murder does not apply because the bible doesnt consider it a life untell it is born and breaths a breath of life.
Luckily for Catholics, we do not live our lives by the literal words of the bible.
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#93 of 107 Old 09-28-2007, 04:21 PM
 
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Luckily for Catholics, we do not live our lives by the literal words of the bible.
I beleave abortion is wrong but i dont need to read a book to find out what is right and wrong. I was merly stating that someone was saying its aginst cristion beleafs when it realy isnt a cristion beleafe its just a beleaf
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#94 of 107 Old 09-28-2007, 04:25 PM
 
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I beleave abortion is wrong but i dont need to read a book to find out what is right and wrong. I was merly stating that someone was saying its aginst cristion beleafs when it realy isnt a cristion beleafe its just a beleaf
It's against Catholic belief... which is what this thread asked about originally... though we may have gotten off topic a few times.....

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#95 of 107 Old 09-28-2007, 04:25 PM
 
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I beleave abortion is wrong but i dont need to read a book to find out what is right and wrong. I was merly stating that someone was saying its aginst cristion beleafs when it realy isnt a cristion beleafe its just a beleaf
Things can be Christian which are not mentioned in the Bible. Which writings belong in the Bible and which do not, just for starters.
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#96 of 107 Old 09-28-2007, 10:02 PM
 
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I beleave abortion is wrong but i dont need to read a book to find out what is right and wrong. I was merly stating that someone was saying its aginst cristion beleafs when it realy isnt a cristion beleafe its just a beleaf

This is a thread about Catholic Christians and abortion most certainly is against Catholic beliefs.
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#97 of 107 Old 09-28-2007, 10:04 PM
 
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Oh and thank you jest and starry_mama! Looks like the only doctors listed on there are hours away, but still a nice link to have. I'll definitely explore all other avenues before I'd use HBC to treat it
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#98 of 107 Old 09-28-2007, 11:30 PM
 
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Thank you, Cloak! I was just curious because I have issue with abnormal bleeding during my period, and of course they're pushing HBC (then I got pregnant right after we started talking about it, so it's irrelevant at the moment!) Of course if I went that route I'd make sure to discuss it with my priest and get all the details worked out, but it's always helpful to go in knowing as much as I can I'm hoping my period will stay away for a couple years after the baby comes so I don't have to worry about it for awhile! But I don't want to ignore it compeltely because my mom had the same problem and ended up with a hysterectomy
Leaving the religious part of the equation aside for a moment, I would be very leery of taking HBC for any "perceived" medical benefit. A good book on the topic of HBC is "Unavoidably Dangerous" by Dr. Mayer Eisenstein. You would definitely not considering taking HBC after reading that book. It will scare the crap out of you.
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#99 of 107 Old 09-30-2007, 01:13 AM
 
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Leaving the religious part of the equation aside for a moment, I would be very leery of taking HBC for any "perceived" medical benefit. A good book on the topic of HBC is "Unavoidably Dangerous" by Dr. Mayer Eisenstein. You would definitely not considering taking HBC after reading that book. It will scare the crap out of you.
Well, gee, hormonal birth control helped me to conceive my son. I was infertile without it. Maybe I should tell him he shouldn't exist because hormonal birth control is supposed to have no medical benefits?
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#100 of 107 Old 10-03-2007, 01:39 AM
 
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I love when Ard posts... cos we are both going through RCIA and asking the same questions


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Very true. You can disagree with something but you still have to abide by it.

Anyway, Catholics are also prohibited from using IVF and any thing else that severs either the procreative or unitive aspects of sex.

That's like saying you don't understand how you can be prohibited from committing murder but are free to like or dislike spanking. Murder is a crime, spanking isn't. Some things are Dogma, some things aren't. And you're free to disagree intellectually with the Church on ABC or female ordination, but you still must abide. Likewise you could think laws against murder are wrong, but that doesn't absolve you if you get caught doing it, and it certainly doesn't make it morally acceptable. Imperfect comparisons, I know, but I'm tired and I have a headache, so take what you can get.

And I'm tired of being accused (by non-Catholics and liberal Catholics) of "blindly following" just because I happen to agree with the Church on something. Because it's just not possible to think for yourself and still agree, right? :

If I thought the Church was so dead wrong about everything she said, I'd run away screaming.
agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!

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Yes, married couples who are infertile or elderly can still have sex. In fact, this was asked recently on the Catholic Answers forums, so I can link you to more information and everything.

Is sex a mortal sin if you can't produce offspring?


Is non-genital intercourse sinful when conception is not possible?

What does the Church teach regarding sex for older couples?
good to know... I am preg, and I was wondering if I was supposed to be shacking up with DH, and I am glad we were in teh clear


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Well, gee, hormonal birth control helped me to conceive my son. I was infertile without it. Maybe I should tell him he shouldn't exist because hormonal birth control is supposed to have no medical benefits?
I dont think she was saying birth control has no medical benefits. but I agree with her on the fact that many of them are dangeruos.
just as many prescriptions are these days.
I have spoken with m any doctors about options on BC in the past, and many agree that HBC is a dangerous thing that is overly prescribed.

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#101 of 107 Old 10-06-2007, 05:29 PM
 
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To say that *you* are not using birth control is not how the Church would see it. The Church would certainly agree you are using birth control through your complicity to your husband's sin.
This is not technically true. If her spouse is not Catholic and absolutely refuses to have sex without a condom, she can reluctantly (key word: reluctantly -- her intentions need to be pure) consent to having sex with him without culpabililty. Now, if he insisted she go on the pill or something, she would have to refuse. She may not assist him in his sin or sin herself just because he wants her to. But if he insists on wearing a condom or otherwise sterilizing himself, as long as she expresses her sorrow at the situation and has told him how wrong it is (and continues to pray often for him), she's not responsible for his sin.

This is what our very orthodox priest always said on the issue, and I have seen it elsewhere -- let me see if I can find a link.

ETA: Here you go --

Click here
and here
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#102 of 107 Old 10-06-2007, 10:37 PM
 
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This is not technically true. If her spouse is not Catholic and absolutely refuses to have sex without a condom, she can reluctantly (key word: reluctantly -- her intentions need to be pure) consent to having sex with him without culpabililty. Now, if he insisted she go on the pill or something, she would have to refuse. She may not assist him in his sin or sin herself just because he wants her to. But if he insists on wearing a condom or otherwise sterilizing himself, as long as she expresses her sorrow at the situation and has told him how wrong it is (and continues to pray often for him), she's not responsible for his sin.

This is what our very orthodox priest always said on the issue, and I have seen it elsewhere -- let me see if I can find a link.

ETA: Here you go --

Click here
and here
That's really interesting, I didn't know that. This post wasn't directed towards me, but thanks for the link; it was a good read.

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#103 of 107 Old 10-07-2007, 05:48 AM
 
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Well, gee, hormonal birth control helped me to conceive my son. I was infertile without it. Maybe I should tell him he shouldn't exist because hormonal birth control is supposed to have no medical benefits?

Wow, who is suggesting you should say such a hateful thing to your son? I think that's going a bit overboard.

But, using a personal experience: a friend of my MIL's was unable to conceive a child naturally. She used IVF and was successful. Was this of God? I say no, others may say yes.

She is trying again to conceive through IVF and her last attempt was unsuccessful.

In my opinion, and this is JUST an opinion, if you are unable to naturally conceive a child, then it must be because God has other plans for you. If we put our trust and faith in God then we can't go wrong.

God has ot created a plan for our lives that would hurt us.

"When God says no, it's because there's a greater yes."

Oh and there is a saying about this. Ugh, can't think of it.

Oh and about following blindly, how about following with trust? If that's blind, fine and I trust God THAT much. So yeah, I follow blindly because I don't have to see.
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#104 of 107 Old 10-07-2007, 05:31 PM
 
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Today's liturgy is perfect for this thread.
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#105 of 107 Old 10-07-2007, 11:02 PM
 
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Wow, who is suggesting you should say such a hateful thing to your son? I think that's going a bit overboard.
Of course it's going a tad overboard, that's the point. The previous poster was stating that hormonal birth control has no medical benefits and I was giving an example of a medical benefit that is very important to me. Extremism in any form is not a good thing.
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#106 of 107 Old 10-07-2007, 11:10 PM
 
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And again, generally we are not discussing extreme medical conditions that cannot be altered/cure/relieved by no other means that BC.
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#107 of 107 Old 10-07-2007, 11:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JElaineB View Post
Well, gee, hormonal birth control helped me to conceive my son. I was infertile without it. Maybe I should tell him he shouldn't exist because hormonal birth control is supposed to have no medical benefits?


That's great that HBC had some kind of medical benefit for you. That wasn't my point.

Dr. Eisenstein's book is about the widespread use of HBC being extremely bad for the health of most women - aside from the illicit nature it has for most Catholics under most circumstances.
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