Can we please start a Torah Study thread? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-22-2007, 07:01 PM
 
Nickarolaberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Running away...
Posts: 4,468
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The midrashim don't go into so much detail, AFAIK, on how/when Sarah rebuked Hagar. But there are plenty of midrashim that really detail the imminent spiritual danger that Ishmael represented to Yitzchak. They were not little boys at the time; most place this event at least in their teen years.

Eilonwy, in general women are credited with the quality of "bina" or a more acute spiritual level of development than men. The three aspects of knowledge are "chochma, bina, da'as" (i.e. Chabad -- an acronym of those). Women are said to be stronger in 'bina' which is more abstract, and men with da'as, which is more concrete (i.e. hard-core Gemara learning).

Generalizations, of course. But that's part of the whole "ezer k'negdo" thing (that women should be a "help-meet against him" in marriage) -- the spiritual weaknesses of one are strengthened by the strengths of the other, and sometimes that effort can be conflictual/challenging.

However, because women have this aspect they are considered spiritual 'leaders' in marriage and it is generally understood that the woman sets the spiritual tone of the home. I forget the exact quote/story/midrash, but there is a general saying that if a man who is a rasha (sinner) marries a tzadekes (righteous woman), he will become a tzadik. But if a tzadik marries a rasha woman, he will become a rasha too.

 "Now bid me run, and I will strive with things impossible." (William Shakespeare -- Julius Caesar)

Nickarolaberry is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-24-2007, 09:17 PM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
* doublepostoops
merpk is offline  
Old 10-24-2007, 09:54 PM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
merpk is offline  
Old 10-29-2007, 05:49 AM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The chabad.org "family" parsha page for Khayyei Sarah.





This is the parsha that documents the first Jewish purchase of land in Eretz Yisroel ... the purchase of a plot of land in Khevron. Appropriate to note that we're not talking about Divine promises here ... we're talking about a legal purchase of land with cold, hard cash.

And the official English website of M'arat haMakhpela, the Makhpela cave in Khevron that is the tomb of six of the Jewish patriarchs/matriarchs ... Avraham and Sarah, Yitzkhak and Rivka, and Yaakov and Leah. Along with (according to mystical tradition) Adam haRishon and Chava, and the head of Esav.






A summary of the parsha, by each aliyah.





Just for starters.

merpk is offline  
Old 10-29-2007, 11:18 AM
 
Ruthla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 43,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Devil's advocate here:

OK, so we purchased the land w/ cold, hard cash ~3,000 years ago. Has it been sold since than? Any "real proof" that we still own it?

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 13(homeschooled)
Ruthla is online now  
Old 10-29-2007, 01:50 PM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
Devil's advocate here:

OK, so we purchased the land w/ cold, hard cash ~3,000 years ago. Has it been sold since than? Any "real proof" that we still own it?


Uh, yeah. The city of Khevron is one of the places with a continuous Jewish community, a virtually unbroken presence ... until the 1929 riots, when the Jews were murdered and the survivors fled. And then, of course, when Jordan conquered Khevron in '48 and it was officially Jew-free (with Jews not allowed to enter at all, even to visit Makhpela) until after the '67 war.

There was a recent article in Ha'aretz about the grandson of the owner of the abandoned Khevron market store that has since been taken over by Jews (who have been ordered to leave by the courts, but anyway). He's a totally secular Jew living in Tel Aviv, and he is very anti-settler and insists that as the owner of the market store property ... with the papers to prove it ... he doesn't want the settlers there.

The papers are pre-1929 papers, pre-British rule, from the Ottoman Empire.



He's just one guy referring to one property that's in the news.



One of the cofounders of the mideastweb site that I regularly link to is also a descendent of Khevron's pre-'29 community. He also is anti-settler. And he is also not interested in living in Khevron ... ie., being viewed as a settler. (Amazing how such a simple word, "settler," has become such verbal poison.)




'K. So those are now two people with a reason to publicize their actual ownership, including deeds and title to their land. They also have political/ideological reasons for not reclaiming their property.




To which the devil's advocate says?
merpk is offline  
Old 10-29-2007, 04:50 PM
 
dara00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: KS by way of NJ
Posts: 1,308
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
chayai sarah was my bat mitzvah parsha. I love it because it's the hevron parsha and I also love hevron!

Dara Mommy to Gabbie (4/05) , Zachary (6/07) , and Simon (8/10)
dara00 is offline  
Old 10-29-2007, 06:33 PM
 
Ruthla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 43,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by merpk View Post
To which the devil's advocate says?
Wow! I didn't know that!

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 13(homeschooled)
Ruthla is online now  
Old 11-02-2007, 02:21 AM
 
mamaverdi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 12,572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The HEAD of Esav?
mamaverdi is offline  
Old 11-02-2007, 05:29 AM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaverdi View Post
The HEAD of Esav?


Yeah.



So the story (from the Midrash) as I learned it starts with Esav doing t'shuva. He made peace with Yaakov and saw how great Yaakov had become, his enormous family, with all those children and grandchildren ... and Esav thought it all looked pretty good, so maybe t'shuva might be a good way to go ... so he did some t'shuva. Life went on ... and then Yaakov Avinu died and his sons brought his body to Makhpela to be buried. Esav thought, "Hey, I did t'shuva, and I'm the firstborn, so I should be buried in Makhpela with our holy grandparents and aba and ima" ... and so he hurried to try to block the way into the cave. ... he wanted to be buried in Makhpela instead of Yaakov.

The Tribes (Yaakov's sons) said, "But you sold your right to be buried there when you sold your birthright." An argument ensued. The Midrash says that one of the sons was sent to get the official record of Esav selling his birthright and right to be buried in Makhpela ...

Meanwhile, one of Yaakov's grandsons, who was deaf (a son of Dan), was trying to understand what was going on ... and was told that Esav was blocking the burial of his holy zayde. So in a fury he hit Esav on the head ... which rolled straight into the cave.

BTW, another Midrash says the head-decapitator was Yehuda.




But anyway ...

My khiddush (new-ish take on it) is that when Esav did t'shuva in the first place, it was only from his head, not true t'shuva from the deepest depths of his heart ... so only his head merited to rest with his holy avos (parents/ancestors).





Good Shabbos ...
merpk is offline  
Old 11-02-2007, 10:32 AM
 
mamaverdi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 12,572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow.

And that youtube spot, wow as well. But in a different way.
mamaverdi is offline  
Old 11-02-2007, 11:20 AM
 
Ruthla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 43,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
So where is the rest of Esav buried?

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 13(homeschooled)
Ruthla is online now  
Old 11-03-2007, 04:50 PM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
merpk is offline  
Old 11-04-2007, 06:10 AM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So leaving Esav's headless body in the dust ... only to come back to it in a few weeks ...






So moving right along to parshat Toldos/Toldot ...

For the record, since Rekhovot is mentioned in this week's parsha (3rd aliyah), the city known as Rekhovot is *not* in the same place as the location of Rekhovot in the Torah. It was further south, I think actually south of Beersheva. But if any of y'all want to come here for Shabbos Parshas Toldos anyway, consider this an open invitation.





Quickie Rebbe Nakhman torah about Yitzkhak Avinu and loving Esav ... by way of Bat Ayin ...






Here's an audio class from R' Manis Freedman about Yitzkhak and his penchant for digging wells. (Honestly, I haven't listened to the whole thing, but it's on my to-do list for today. For the record, R' Manis is a Chabad guy, and he's also the only guy at whose house Bob Dylan occasionally attends Pesakh seders. Go figure.)


And if you have no patience for the whole R' Manis thing, then a quickie from one of the holy hippe'lekh of Bat Ayin on Yitzkhak and his wells
merpk is offline  
Old 11-04-2007, 10:54 AM
 
yonit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Desperately seeking Kosher food
Posts: 1,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh Yeah, I love that R'Manis class. Yes he is a Chabad guy, and one of my favorite Ravs, but he is most definitely NOT a mainstream Chabad guy. Many Chabadniks can't stand him. Especially since he has been very vocal about saying that the Rebbe is NOT moshiach.

But me, I love watching him put the moshiachisks in their place...

OK, I decided I should add something Parsha related since this is a parsha thread... So here you go
yonit is offline  
Old 11-04-2007, 12:59 PM
 
mombh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by yonit View Post
Oh Yeah, I love that R'Manis class. Yes he is a Chabad guy, and one of my favorite Ravs, but he is most definitely NOT a mainstream Chabad guy. Many Chabadniks can't stand him. Especially since he has been very vocal about saying that the Rebbe is NOT moshiach.

But me, I love watching him put the moshiachisks in their place...

OK, I decided I should add something Parsha related since this is a parsha thread... So here you go


:

and subbing..... how did I not know of this thread ? :
mombh is offline  
Old 11-09-2007, 02:09 PM
 
BelovedBird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: HOME!! Northern Israel
Posts: 3,195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
HI all! Great thread!

I just realized I was reading the thread without having davening birchas hatorah, so if anyone else realizes they are also in that situation, I'll save you the googling, if your siddur is on the other side of the room.
http://idaven.com/shacharis1.html

Sorry, its only hebrew.

Thanks everyone for the vortlach (words).

Gut Shabbos!

Mom of 5 boys- 13, 10, 8, 2 : and newbie Aug. 24th, '09 . babywearing advocate . Cook, baker, homemaker, wife to a man with another woman's kidney (live altruistic, unknown donor).
BelovedBird is offline  
Old 11-10-2007, 07:05 PM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
BB great link. For those "I'm on MDC and just ate lunch and didn't bentsch yet and am too lazy to get a bentscher" moments as well ...











The heilege Family Parsha page from the heilege Chabad.org.






And a poem for the parsha/Rosh Khodesh by the sweetest tallest rav in this hemisphere ...
merpk is offline  
Old 11-10-2007, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
eilonwy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Lost
Posts: 15,067
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
And this week's parsha is.....

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
eilonwy is offline  
Old 11-10-2007, 09:23 PM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by eilonwy View Post
And this week's parsha is.....
Oops. VaYeitzei.



(Trying desperately to find somewhereanywhere the lyrics to the "613 Torah Avenue" VaYeitzei song. Ain't happenin'. And ain't about to put in the tape to transcribe it, either. Oh, well. )
merpk is offline  
Old 11-11-2007, 11:47 PM
 
yonit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Desperately seeking Kosher food
Posts: 1,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am giving the women's Shabbos Shiur this weekend for Parshas Veyeitzei...

So someone give me something good I can use....:
yonit is offline  
Old 11-12-2007, 02:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
eilonwy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Lost
Posts: 15,067
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You know something sad and strange? These names are all familiar to me, and I couldn't figure out why... until I recalled that back in elementary school, I memorized them all for some reason. (I've always liked lists, what can I say? )

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
eilonwy is offline  
Old 11-17-2007, 09:12 PM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
'K, mamas, time for VaYishlakh ...







And what would the first parsha post be without a shtickle Torah from Bat Ayin ... thank you to R' Raz Hartman for this fast, sweet, and deepest-of-the-deep d'var Torah ...









& Shavu'a tov, mamas.

merpk is offline  
Old 11-24-2007, 05:51 PM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
merpk is offline  
Old 11-24-2007, 11:24 PM
 
mamaverdi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 12,572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Weird there where you are? Weird here MDC-land?
mamaverdi is offline  
Old 11-25-2007, 03:00 AM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Kinda both.



And DH is having surgery on his eye today so am kind of ... running. More later. Learning Torah today in his zkhus ... R'S to DH (Nissin Gershon ben Khayka).
merpk is offline  
Old 11-25-2007, 03:25 AM
 
mamaverdi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 12,572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
R'S to your dh.
mamaverdi is offline  
Old 11-25-2007, 02:39 PM
 
Ruthla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 43,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
R'S' to Merpk's DH

I get the parshiot all mixed up this time of year. All these "Vay" things just sound the same to a native English speaker!

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 13(homeschooled)
Ruthla is online now  
Old 11-26-2007, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
eilonwy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Lost
Posts: 15,067
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm with you, Ruthla. Very confuzzled. :

On the other hand... my brain fog is lifting, and I'd really like to get back into the swing of things. This week is insanely busy (Bean had three new courses load over the holiday break, I see the maternal-fetal medicine specialist tomorrow, and we've got the blended program Thursday...) but I'll read along if you ladies post any fun discussion, and *next* week I'll (hopefully) have my behind in gear.

R'S to Amy's husband.

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
eilonwy is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off