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#31 of 40 Old 11-13-2007, 05:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
She was just defining "post-Christian". A lot of people think that as a society we are "over" Christianity and moving on to something else. I have my own feelings towards that attitude . And i suppose a case can be made for that, especially in the western world, but i don't know that it is entirely true either.
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Originally Posted by Potty Diva View Post
Thanks mama and I can't completely and totally honestly say I didn't see a response like Adele's coming. It hit my a split second after replying that the tone might come off as anti-christian.

But hey, I'm a Catholic and many think we aren't Christian to begin with
I was not concerned that you came off as anti-christian. I am not Christian myself. My problem was with the line "The UU is the result" This is more than just "defining post-Christian". This is making a statement about UU that is not true. As a UU, I felt I should respond, particularly given the topic of this thread which is all about what UU is and is not.

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#32 of 40 Old 11-13-2007, 05:54 PM
 
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Then you are still misunderstanding my statement.

I am not saying the UU is the result. But the idea of post-christian, as define by theologists and as explained in my religion courses is that those who are within the post-christian movement believe the result of being "over" christianity is the enlightened, inclusive, all-encompassing UU. This isn't a slight to the UU organization. These aspects and elements are not a negatice statement.

YOU may not belive this, but UU's who are in the post-christian camp DO believe this.

Whether true or not is another story. I don't believe or not believe it, nor am I bothered by it.
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#33 of 40 Old 11-13-2007, 05:57 PM
 
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And you should not be taking issue with me, since I don't define anything or anyone, but with those who have defined post-christian.

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Thus defined, a post-Christian world is one where Christianity is no longer the dominant civil religion, but one that has, gradually over extended periods of time, assumed values, culture, and worldviews that are not necessarily Christian (and further may not necessarily reflect any world religion's standpoint)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Christian

After some searching I have found that the UUA DOES consider itself post-christian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitari...st_Association
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#34 of 40 Old 11-13-2007, 07:53 PM
 
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Here is your first post (emphasis added by me):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potty Diva View Post
It means chrisitianity is a dead religion and no longer relevant to today's modern, enlightened society. The UU is the result. Post, being after christianity.
Now you say this (emphasis is mine):

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Originally Posted by Potty Diva View Post
Then you are still misunderstanding my statement.
I am not saying the UU is the result.
That may not be what you are saying now, but that is precisely what you said in your first post - word for word! You are welcome to change you mind or clarify that you did not say what you meant or intended to say, of course. But to say I "misunderstood" (and am still misunderstanding) is not correct.


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Originally Posted by Potty Diva View Post
But the idea of post-christian, as define by theologists and as explained in my religion courses is that those who are within the post-christian movement believe the result of being "over" christianity is the enlightened, inclusive, all-encompassing UU.
I have no idea what you mean by "enlightened, inclusive, all-encompassing UU". UU, in this thread at least, refers to Unitarian Universalism, which is a specific association of congregations formed by the merger of two Christian denominations. It sounds to me as if you are referring to something else - some sort of universal religious world view or something. If that is the case, then please do not refer to this as UU, because using the same term (or in this case abbreviation) to mean two completely different things is only going to cause confusion.

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Originally Posted by Potty Diva View Post
This isn't a slight to the UU organization. These aspects and elements are not a negatice statement.
And I was not offended. I simply said I did not agree with you. I did not think your statement was negative. I thought it was an inaccurate representation of UU.

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Originally Posted by Potty Diva View Post
And you should not be taking issue with me, since I don't define anything or anyone, but with those who have defined post-christian.]
I think it is extremely odd to happily thank someone for saying "She was just defining post-Christian" and now say "I don't define anything."

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Originally Posted by Potty Diva View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Christian

After some searching I have found that the UUA DOES consider itself post-christian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitari...st_Association
Wikipedia would not be my first choice for finding out what the UUA considers itself. For that I would go to the source. Here is the UUA Website if you are interested. However, I personally find Wikipedia to be a perfectly acceptable reference for finding out general information about a topic, in this case what someone thinks about UUA.

Here is a quote from the Wikipedia page you reference:

"Post Christian, post-Christian or postChristian is a term used to describe a personal world view, ideology, religious movement or society that is no longer rooted in the language and assumptions of Christianity, though it had previously been in an environment of ubiquitous Christianity (i.e., Christendom). Thus defined, a post-Christian world is one where Christianity is no longer the dominant civil religion, but one that has, gradually over extended periods of time, assumed values, culture, and worldviews that are not necessarily Christian (and further may not necessarily reflect any world religion's standpoint). This situation applies to much of Europe, in particular in Central and Northern Europe, where no more than half of the residents in those lands profess belief in a monotheistically-conceived deity."

I actually think this is an excellent answer to the question of what feyfollow's minister might have meant by post-Christian. I also can see where UUA (or at least some UU's) would see themselves in this definition.

I appreciate your researching this and finding this definition. I did not know how to respond to feyfollow's post myself, because I also did not know what the minister meant.

I think this Wikipedia citation would have been a good response to feyfollow's post. I also think it supports my argument much more than your own, particularly this part: "religious movement or society that is no longer rooted in the language and assumptions of Christianity, though it had previously been in an environment of ubiquitous Christianity" Nowhere in this does it say that Christianity is a dead religion or that it no longer has any relevance to modern society. Individual UUs may believe these things (and I am sure there are some who do), but I am confident that these ideas cannot be part of the definition of the term post-Christianity as the UUA might use it to refer to itself. This would contradict the sources as I mentioned earlier. This assertion is also borne out in the actual statement that I assume you are referring to when you say the UUA does consider itself post-Christian:

Here is the quote from the first UUA president on this same Wikipedia page: "Dana McLean Greeley, the first president of the Unitarian Universalist Association, described Unitarian Universalism as post-Christian insofar as Christians no longer considered it Christian, while persons of other religions would likely describe it as Christian, as least historically." This definition of post-Christian is completely different from your original definition. In fact this definition fits pretty darn well with what I first said about UU being Christian, which is that most Christians would say UU is not Christian but historically it was a Christian religion.

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#35 of 40 Old 11-13-2007, 09:15 PM
 
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OMG.

I did not make the definition up.

I did not change my mind

The UUA actually says they are post-christian. FROM the UUA page.

I didn't say it was the result. I don't know how I can make this more clear. I am really trying.

These are not my words and yes you are still misunderstanding. I am sorry there is such a huge gap in communication here.
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#36 of 40 Old 11-13-2007, 09:16 PM
 
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read your post again, and yeah there is a big misunderstanding on your part. The quote you used from wiki, was one I was first going to use.

I think when I added the word dead, which would mean for me, not useful, as apposed to gone from the face of the earth, that may have been where the confusion started.

Weird.
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#37 of 40 Old 11-14-2007, 03:57 AM
 
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EE gads, I was being a wise guy ladies. I so totally did not mean to stir the pot. I just realllly dislike the reverend. Luckily, she disappears 3 months of the year, and I enjoy it then.

My minister, and half of our congregation, is Humanist. However, we have Jewish, Pagan, Hindu, this Taino Indian, Christian, and a whole lotta Buddhist folks floating around.

I meant that our UU society (since it was in the UU thread) was post x-tian, not ALL of society. Her sermons are exclusively Humanists, except during Yom Kippur. However, I don't completely agree w/the UUA saying that all of the UUs are post xtian, because I have been to a few congregations that you would think you were in a typical protestant service. At one point Polytheism & the Hindu/Native American structure was the way to go, along came monotheism & it took over (and still has a stronghold), but different beliefs are starting to emerge, my people still hold/reteaching their Great Spirit, Great Mother, and the "demi-gods" we have. Heck most of the same stories have been recycled by each religion, just with a different name slapped onto it. These things happen, beliefs change, people change, and cultures change. So, thank you Adele for explaining the post xtian thing for me. I just need to visit the UUA more often.


I know that the UUA does the lip service, but each congregation is so completely different when you get down to it. My rev. will not even allow the discussion of a CUUPS program, thinks we beat the enviormental issues like a dead horse, and will very rarely interject anything from another viewpoint. She will tell you flat out that you are in her UU house, that UUism has it's own hx, and there is no straying from her Humanist beliefs.

Oh gosh, I bought up my belief in fate up on day and :...

Again, sorry to stir it up...

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#38 of 40 Old 11-14-2007, 04:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by feyfollow View Post
I know that the UUA does the lip service, but each congregation is so completely different when you get down to it. My rev. will not even allow the discussion of a CUUPS program, thinks we beat the enviormental issues like a dead horse, and will very rarely interject anything from another viewpoint. She will tell you flat out that you are in her UU house, that UUism has it's own hx, and there is no straying from her Humanist beliefs.

Oh gosh, I bought up my belief in fate up on day and :...

Again, sorry to stir it up...
I'm so sorry that your rev. is like that. Honestly, she sounds awful. And not following UU principles either! What about tolerance and supporting each individual's spiritual journey?? I'm glad you can get the benefits from the guest speakers and the RE program in spite of the minister. I don't think I could do that.

You should check out the UU thread in the main Spirituality forum. Lots of great UUs there with a wide variety of beliefs and very friendly and supportive I think.

Thanks for the follow-up post.

Peace.

Adele

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#39 of 40 Old 11-14-2007, 12:44 PM
 
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thinking more on the post christian comment that goes back to the original post. saying you are post Christian is still using Christianity as your starting point. rather than saying "we are a multi religous organization they are saying "we are group of people who have moved on from Christianity" So saying post Christian really actualy says a lot about the that fellowship particular fellowship at least.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#40 of 40 Old 11-14-2007, 01:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
thinking more on the post christian comment that goes back to the original post. saying you are post Christian is still using Christianity as your starting point. rather than saying "we are a multi religous organization they are saying "we are group of people who have moved on from Christianity" So saying post Christian really actualy says a lot about the that fellowship particular fellowship at least.
Very good point and well said.

I have never heard that term in my UU congregation. I wonder if that lack of use, also says something about my particular congregation and its view of itself.

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