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Old 11-02-2007, 04:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Black Orchid View Post
After reading it, I simply cannot believe that some would find comfort in knowing that others will be left to suffer while they are taken away to find Heaven. It seems more a sympton of western arrogance that somehow we are more deserving of a greater experience than others...
I think this is where the big difference between the Catholic and evangelical Protestant understanding comes from. Catholics see *a lot* of value in suffering. We don't think it makes any sense for us to be "taken up" to escape the suffering that will occur during Tribulation. We believe we'll experience it right along with everyone else. (And of course, we see no biblical basis for it).
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Old 11-02-2007, 04:06 PM
 
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That is your interpretation and that of many.

DO an indept study and you'll see that many disagree with this.

As Christians we CAN disagree, but if it gets in the away and becomes a focus of division in the church I feel thats wrong.

NOne of us really know what will happen in the future, its all in Gods hands and various passages in the Bible concerning this can be interpreted differently.......thats just the way it is. There is no complete right or wrong on this, just different interpretations. One day we'll all know the truth.
I've studied it plenty. I know that people disagree, that doesn't make them right.
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Old 11-02-2007, 04:39 PM
 
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This is kinda funny:

America's Armageddonites


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Most journalists find it difficult to take seriously that tens of millions of Americans, filled with fantasies of revenge and empowerment, long to leave a world they despise. These Armageddonites believe that they alone will get a quick, free pass when they are “raptured” to paradise, no good deeds necessary, not even a day of judgment. Ironically, they share this utopian fantasy with a group that they often castigate, namely fundamentalist Muslims who believe that dying in battle also means direct access to Heaven.
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:00 PM
 
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Yes, I am a dispensationalist. I believe the Scripture supports this view, but also know and understand varying views and their scriptural support also.

For me personally discussion on this is merely informational, and not essential to ones faith. Where, when, how....of Christ's return is not as essential as knowing that he WILL RETURN and believing and trusting in Him is what counts in the end.
This is what I believe, too. Though I've only read stuff that supports a pre-trib rapture and my family believes this as well (so I was raised believing this).

However, I'm really interested in reading what others think on this. Does anyone have any good links that explain, scripturally, a no-rapture view?
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Old 11-08-2007, 06:19 PM
 
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However, I'm really interested in reading what others think on this. Does anyone have any good links that explain, scripturally, a no-rapture view?
http://www.catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp
http://www.catholicculture.org/libra...fm?recnum=5788
http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/2002Nov/nov21tru.htm
http://www.catholicplanet.com/articles/article111.htm
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Old 11-13-2007, 03:10 AM
 
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I've studied it plenty. I know that people disagree, that doesn't make them right.
No snark, but just curious. Are you infering that your belief is "right"?

FTR, I totally believe in a pre-trib rapture. I can back it up by scripture, but won't, as it is my belief and I have no need to try and convince anyone. Because, really, I don't think it matters one way or another. I figure that if I am ready, fine, if it is "late" and is a mid-trib or post-trib, I will still be ready. It's all the same to me.


Any misspellings or grammatical errors in the above statement are intentional;
they are placed there for the amusement of those who like to point them out.
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Old 11-13-2007, 09:31 AM
 
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Jenny- than we completely agree on something YEAH!
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:15 AM
 
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No snark, but just curious. Are you infering that your belief is "right"?

FTR, I totally believe in a pre-trib rapture. I can back it up by scripture, but won't, as it is my belief and I have no need to try and convince anyone. Because, really, I don't think it matters one way or another. I figure that if I am ready, fine, if it is "late" and is a mid-trib or post-trib, I will still be ready. It's all the same to me.

Um...yes. Why would I believe it if I thought it was false?? :
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:20 AM
 
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I believe it to be true, I just don't believe it
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:49 AM
 
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Um...yes. Why would I believe it if I thought it was false?? :
I totally understand that line of thinking.

But I guess I can say the same thing. My belief is right.

I've studied it plenty. I know that people disagree, that doesn't make them right.

to each his own.

Any misspellings or grammatical errors in the above statement are intentional;
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:49 AM
 
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I believe it to be true, I just don't believe it

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Old 11-13-2007, 05:01 PM
 
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You guys, do you mind if I recommend a really interesting book on this subject?

http://www.amazon.com/Footsteps-Mess...4980437&sr=8-1

I read many books on the topic before, but only THIS book gave me the clearest idea on the book of Revelation and also other opinions. Great study book.
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:43 PM
 
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Thanks. I will have to check it out. I always love to hear what others say on the matter.

Any misspellings or grammatical errors in the above statement are intentional;
they are placed there for the amusement of those who like to point them out.
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Old 11-22-2007, 12:05 PM
 
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Jane, Would you mind telling us if it is anything like the Lahaye and Jenkins stuff out there? Its a lot of money to buy that book and my libraries cant find it. Im interested in hearing something other than LaHaye's take on all of it. I read the entire Left Behind series. Its good-ish fiction. I did really enjoy the last book 'The Glorious Appearing' I think its called. One day I just started thinking how entirely unbiblical the whole series really is. Its part of a multimillion dollar christian merchandise industry that I cannot stand. Its funny because the day I was thinking of how unbiblical the series was I was on a bus. When I got off that bus, moments after I began thinking about how unbiblical it was Im walking thru downtown manchester and someone hands me, for free, a book which is a rebuttle to the left behind series. For me, that wasnt coincidence. It wont mean anything to anyone else but that 'coincidence' meant to me that I was along the right train of thought. I atleast started questioning the things the 'church' was teaching on the subject. Im no nearer to knowing the answer to 'The Rapture Question' but I do not believe Jerry Jenkins nor Tim Lahaye know what they are talking about. (Tim Lahaye wears a toupay for goodness sake. I cannot take a man seriously when he's wearing a wig!)
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Old 11-22-2007, 02:27 PM
 
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I LOVED reading the Left behind Series. I think I read until Book8 or 9. Just good reading and I loved the characters. Total hogwash, but still fun.
That's how I felt about them. Kind of like chocolate for the minde. :

Dh and I both still are thinking through the idea of the Rapture. I really can't see any basis for making dogma out of the millenial thing. I can see where it might be interpreted that way, but to me the end of time is still very murky. What I know is that Jesus will return, the dead will be resurrected, the believers will be separated from those who rejected God, and those living at that time will be taken up into heaven. How, when, and in what order that will all happen doesn't actually seem to me to be that important.

I have a commission to fulfill as a Christian, and I should be living my life for God's glory whether a Rapture is going to happen tomorrow, or not.
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Old 11-22-2007, 04:03 PM
 
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I LOVED reading the Left behind Series. I think I read until Book8 or 9. Just good reading and I loved the characters. Total hogwash, but still fun.
:

I read the entire series and wondered how they could possibly do the Glorious Appearing really well after the hype of all those books, but I did enjoy the climax and ending.

It was enjoyable reading. I started the series (book one) LeHaye & Jenkins did after Left Behind, but I just couldn't get into it.

Fun fiction, but nothing past that IMO.



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Originally Posted by maplesugar View Post
Maybe if Stephen King tackled the issue ala The Stand.
The Stand was an awesome Armageddon story.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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Old 11-23-2007, 01:27 AM
 
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Jane, Would you mind telling us if it is anything like the Lahaye and Jenkins stuff out there? Its a lot of money to buy that book and my libraries cant find it. Im interested in hearing something other than LaHaye's take on all of it. I read the entire Left Behind series. Its good-ish fiction. I did really enjoy the last book 'The Glorious Appearing' I think its called. One day I just started thinking how entirely unbiblical the whole series really is. Its part of a multimillion dollar christian merchandise industry that I cannot stand. Its funny because the day I was thinking of how unbiblical the series was I was on a bus. When I got off that bus, moments after I began thinking about how unbiblical it was Im walking thru downtown manchester and someone hands me, for free, a book which is a rebuttle to the left behind series. For me, that wasnt coincidence. It wont mean anything to anyone else but that 'coincidence' meant to me that I was along the right train of thought. I atleast started questioning the things the 'church' was teaching on the subject. Im no nearer to knowing the answer to 'The Rapture Question' but I do not believe Jerry Jenkins nor Tim Lahaye know what they are talking about. (Tim Lahaye wears a toupay for goodness sake. I cannot take a man seriously when he's wearing a wig!)
You are too funny.

It's nothing like Left Behind Series. It studies the Scriptures and passages and explains them but also reviews other points of views. We are not living in Messianic era now. I understand that this book is not cheap, perhaps when I have more time I will talk in more details about it... Granted, it is also one man's study, not saying that he is right or wrong.
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Old 11-23-2007, 09:20 PM
 
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Maybe if Stephen King tackled the issue ala The Stand.
You know, I saw a movie trailer on tv the other day for a Stephen King film that looked to me like it might be a bit of a twist on the Three Dyas of Darkness prophecy. I think it was callled "The Mist."
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Old 11-23-2007, 10:29 PM
 
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"The Mist" is based on a great King novella. It's more SK classic horror genre than end times, unlike the obvious good vs evil/Armageddon plot in "The Stand".

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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Old 11-23-2007, 11:09 PM
 
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That is your interpretation and that of many.

DO an indept study and you'll see that many disagree with this.

As Christians we CAN disagree, but if it gets in the away and becomes a focus of division in the church I feel thats wrong.

NOne of us really know what will happen in the future, its all in Gods hands and various passages in the Bible concerning this can be interpreted differently.......thats just the way it is. There is no complete right or wrong on this, just different interpretations. One day we'll all know the truth.

Can I just say that I agree with everything that you are saying? It can get very confusing and yea there is no way to know for sure, just like anything else but I believe it. I really don't was to go through the tribulation!! I believe!

Jennie: Working mother to 3 and loving wife to my hubby for over 12 years
Emily 10 Taylor 8 Logan 6
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Old 11-24-2007, 01:22 AM
 
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I totally understand that line of thinking.

But I guess I can say the same thing. My belief is right.

I've studied it plenty. I know that people disagree, that doesn't make them right.

to each his own.
Nothing wrong with having the strength of your convictions
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Old 11-24-2007, 01:24 AM
 
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"The Mist" is based on a great King novella. It's more SK classic horror genre than end times, unlike the obvious good vs evil/Armageddon plot in "The Stand".
My favorite SK story of all time!!! I need to find some money so I can go see it!!!!!


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What I know is that Jesus will return, the dead will be resurrected, the believers will be separated from those who rejected God, and those living at that time will be taken up into heaven. How, when, and in what order that will all happen doesn't actually seem to me to be that important.

I have a commission to fulfill as a Christian, and I should be living my life for God's glory whether a Rapture is going to happen tomorrow, or not.
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