Jesus: God or prophet? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 38 Old 11-27-2007, 11:15 AM
 
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Jesus also said, ""If you truly loved me you would rejoice to have me go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I". [John 14:28] " Again... sounds like Jesus is a Prophet, not God.
Jesus also says "I and the Father are one" and "The Father is in Me and I am in the Father" and "If you knew me, you would know my Father also" "you call me teacher and Lord and you are right for I AM" (I AM=YAHWEH=God), etc.
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#32 of 38 Old 12-02-2007, 10:42 PM
 
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According to the earliest gospel (Thomas), which is not in the bible and most christians refuse to recognize as fact primarily because it contradicts their beliefs, Jesus NEVER claimed to be god and was an apocolyptic scholar, one of hundreds at the time. I believe he was a sage and nothing more.

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#33 of 38 Old 12-02-2007, 11:34 PM
 
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Both.

Jesus was 'prophet, priest and king'; one can hardly deny that He was a prophet, given that He prophesied, which is pretty much the definition of being a prophet! But yes, I believe He is one of the members of the Trinity; ie, God. Jesus referring to Himself as a prophet in no way implies that He couldn't be more than a prophet; any more than Jesus referring to Himself as a shepherd meant that He was only a shepherd. Certainly, some of His contemporaries referred to Him as a prophet, not as God; which is to be expected, given that even the disciples didn't have a very clear idea about who Jesus was, until the Resurrection. But one can't say 'His contemporaries called Him X, therefore He was X'--after all, His contemporaries called him all sorts of things--Moses, Elijah, a man with a demon, a good teacher, you name it.

L&IsMama: I'd be curious to know what exactly you find illogical about the Trinity? I had a discussion once with someone who said that the Trinity violated the law of non-contradiction (not true), but apart from that I've never heard anyone say it was illogical per se; just difficult to understand. I have heard complex analogies involving 3-in-1 shampoo, though.

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God is omnisicient. Jesus is not.
"Mark 13:32: "No one knows the day or hour, not even the angels in Heaven nor the Son, but ONLY the Father.""
"Luke 8:45: "Jesus then asked, ‘Who touched me?"" Jesus if Omniscient, would know.
God, the three persons of the Trinity, can be omniscient without each of the Persons of the Godhead having to exercise that attribute, surely? As for the latter instance, we don't actually know Jesus didn't know who touched Him--He may have been asking simply to get her to 'fess up. But anyway, during His incarnation Jesus limited many of His divine attributes--He wasn't omnipresent, for example, given that He was 'trapped' within the confines of a human body. So I don't think it's a theological problem if He chose to give up some of His Divine knowledge in order to more fully experience humanity.

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#34 of 38 Old 12-02-2007, 11:51 PM
 
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I don't think spirituality or faith is constant.... or meant to be. For me, I usually ask God to help me find my way on my path... but I have no idea where my path leads.
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#35 of 38 Old 12-03-2007, 12:00 AM
 
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I personally believe He is God, but I don't have the great resources others have been sending.
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#36 of 38 Old 12-03-2007, 01:43 PM
 
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Jesus also says "I and the Father are one" and "The Father is in Me and I am in the Father" and "If you knew me, you would know my Father also" "you call me teacher and Lord and you are right for I AM" (I AM=YAHWEH=God), etc.
Even apart from direct statements like these, a great deal of what Jesus taught were things he had no authority to say unless he was God. Examples:
"Your sins are forgiven." These were not offenses against Jesus himself which were forgiven personally, but all the man's sins. The Pharisees objected strongly to this statement, since it was understood that only God can forgive sins.
"Today you will be with me in Paradise."
To the apostles, "You will eat and drink at my table in my kingdom. You will also sit on thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel."
"But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne."
Matthew 12:41-42: Jesus claims to be greater than Jonah or Solomon.
"Abraham desired to see my day, and he did see it, and rejoiced."
Driving people from the Temple, he said, "My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer. But ye have made it a den of thieves."
"I saw Satan falling like lightning from Heaven."
Mark 2:28: When criticized for breaking the Sabbath, Jesus claimed to be Lord of the Sabbath.
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#37 of 38 Old 12-04-2007, 12:06 AM
 
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Jesus was the human manifestation of God.
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#38 of 38 Old 12-11-2007, 04:06 PM
 
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i think he is gods son. why would he call himself his father?
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