Did Christians persecute the Jews? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 234 Old 01-17-2008, 06:01 PM
 
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This question?

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Originally Posted by jul511riv View Post
Can someone please explain this to me? What exactly does "chosen people" mean to a Christian? And if it is something so great and holy, why wouldn't EVERYONE want to be in on it?
It is an interesting question. I have Christian relatives who have told me this, that Jews are chosen, wrong, but chosen. So what's so great about being chosen, then, if we are just sticking around to be the ultimate example of a people who was wrong about JC?
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#122 of 234 Old 01-17-2008, 06:46 PM
 
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Can someone please explain this to me? What exactly does "chosen people" mean to a Christian? And if it is something so great and holy, why wouldn't EVERYONE want to be in on it?
I can only speak for my own church. The Jews were chosen by God to know and worship the true God, and to receive the Messiah. From our perspective, we are in on it.
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#123 of 234 Old 01-17-2008, 11:31 PM
 
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Christians have persecuted a great many people, the Jews only being one of them.
Many groups of people have been persecuted by many other groups of people. I don't think Christians are the only group to ever demonstrate persecution or discrimination.

Heck, Christians in Bethlehem are feeling pretty persecuted at the moment - which is why most of them are fleeing. Their suffering is absolutely nowhere NEAR as horrific and enormous as that which the Jewish people have suffered, but my point is that this thread is turning into a one-upmanship contest. We all know that Christians have persecuted Jews throughout history -and that it's still happening today. The question is - how can we work together - from BOTH sides - to educate and make change? There is no point in widening the gap (which threads like this do). I see sweeping generalisations on both sides here.

I'm not sure what the point of this thread was. Was it to foster peace, or to point fingers?

Not having lived in Germany, I can't say for sure what the current 'feel' is, but a German friend gave three recent examples of anti-Semitism in England (Prince Harry dressing up as a Nazi was one of them) and explained that Germany's strict laws meant he would have been jailed if he'd done it there. She explained that the laws against Holocaust denial and anti-Semitism have led to a harmonious relationship between Jewish people and the other citizens (in her opinion) and part of it was because of the recognition and apology offered for what happened.

I don't know how Jews perceive the laws in Germany - can someone share their feelings? Has it been helpful? Is it a viable option for other countries?
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#124 of 234 Old 01-18-2008, 01:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by graceomalley View Post
Many groups of people have been persecuted by many other groups of people. I don't think Christians are the only group to ever demonstrate persecution or discrimination.

Heck, Christians in Bethlehem are feeling pretty persecuted at the moment - which is why most of them are fleeing. Their suffering is absolutely nowhere NEAR as horrific and enormous as that which the Jewish people have suffered, but my point is that this thread is turning into a one-upmanship contest. We all know that Christians have persecuted Jews throughout history -and that it's still happening today. The question is - how can we work together - from BOTH sides - to educate and make change? There is no point in widening the gap (which threads like this do). I see sweeping generalisations on both sides here.

I'm not sure what the point of this thread was. Was it to foster peace, or to point fingers?

Not having lived in Germany, I can't say for sure what the current 'feel' is, but a German friend gave three recent examples of anti-Semitism in England (Prince Harry dressing up as a Nazi was one of them) and explained that Germany's strict laws meant he would have been jailed if he'd done it there. She explained that the laws against Holocaust denial and anti-Semitism have led to a harmonious relationship between Jewish people and the other citizens (in her opinion) and part of it was because of the recognition and apology offered for what happened.

I don't know how Jews perceive the laws in Germany - can someone share their feelings? Has it been helpful? Is it a viable option for other countries?

I'm not so confident "we" all know that. Just a vibe I get.

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#125 of 234 Old 01-18-2008, 01:07 AM
 
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I'm not sure what the point of this thread was. Was it to foster peace, or to point fingers?
I'm not sure if you read the thread that this one was inspired by, but in it at least one poster expressed the view that because anti-Semitism is, in her opinion, "un-Biblical" and "un-Christian", it is somehow incorrect to say that Christians have persecuted Jews through history. She seemed to be promoting the view that anti-Semitism has no roots in the "true" Christian religion, and that as a member of a Christian denomination that has not had any significant examples of institutionalized anti-Semitism, she does not need to recognize the anti-Semitism that has occurred during the history of her faith.

I think it is important to, as you say, educate people about the history of anti-Semitism. I think that is the point of the thread. You mention the laws in Germany, which I know little about. I think some of the posters on this thread, however, would not be willing to "own" anti-Semitism enough to believe that they have anything to recognize or for which to apologize.
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#126 of 234 Old 01-18-2008, 03:07 AM
 
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I think you might be referring to me and the OT/NT thread.

I've been following this thread closely.

I'm so ashamed that I didn't know just how bad anti-semitsm is prevalent today in America and truly was ignorant (not bigotry - bigotry stems from hate right?) about roots of anti-semitism in the Christian faith.


I will NOT let this happen to my children. They will be very aware of this history.

My mom did tell me that Hitler rejected all forms of religions and had Bible burning fest. Then I learn he was raised Christian.

I honestly believe the reason I'm so stupid about Christian history is because we're told not to talk about religion in school. I went to a public school. I actually did ask about the Jewish faith when we were studying the Holocaust
and was scolded for asking religious questions.

And of course, afaik, churches don't teach this in Sunday school. At least this history was never presented in class whenever I attended.

I like the idea of taking my children to a Synagauge (sp?) so they can learn more about Jewish History.

I was relieved that the Jewish mamas were supportive of this idea. At first I thought one might spit in my face b/c I'm a Christian. I'm getting mixed signals here.

Weather this thread is about pointing fingers or Jews and Christians trying to make amends and find peace with each other, I've learned so much. I'm just so sorry and utterly embarrassed about my ignorance. You can flame me if you want. I deserve it.
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#127 of 234 Old 01-18-2008, 03:34 AM
 
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My mom is a high school english teacher in a small city that draws from a wide rural area. My mom teaches Holocaust studies as part of the English dept. and the 9th grade social studies teacher has had me come in and talk about Judaism and Israel. I have to tell you, the ignorance out there is shocking. One of the first questions I always get asked when it comes to Q&A is "aren't you scared about going to hell?" The second is usually, "but how can you not believe in Jesus?" And that's AFTER I've spoken.
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#128 of 234 Old 01-18-2008, 04:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by fruitful womb View Post
I think you might be referring to me. And the OT/NT thread.

I've been following this thread very closely.

I'm so ashamed that I didn't know just how bad its prevalent today in America and truly was ignorant (not bigotry - bigotry stems from hate right?) about roots of anti-semetism in the Christian faith.


I will NOT let this happen to my children. They will be very aware of this history.

My mom did tell me that Hitler rejected all forms of religions and had Bible burning fest. Then I learn he was raised Christian.

I honestly believe the reason I'm so stupid about Christian history is because we're told not to talk about religion in school. I went to a public school. I actually did ask about the Jewish faith when we were studying the Holocaust
and was scolded for asking religious questions.

And of course, afaik, churches don't teach this in Sunday school. At least this history was never presented in class whenever I attended.

I like the idea of taking my children to a Synagauge (sp?) so they can learn more about Jewish History.

I was relieved that the Jewish mamas were supportive of this idea. At first I thought one might spit in my face b/c I'm a Christian. I'm getting mixed signals here.

Never-the-less, I'm learning and weather this thread is about pointing fingers or Jews and Christians trying to make amends and find peace with each other, I've learned so much. I'm just so sorry and utterly embarrassed about my ignorance. You can flame me if you want. I deserve it.
You don't deserve flames at all - that's a brave post.

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at least one poster expressed the view that because anti-Semitism is, in her opinion, "un-Biblical" and "un-Christian", it is somehow incorrect to say that Christians have persecuted Jews through history. She seemed to be promoting the view that anti-Semitism has no roots in the "true" Christian religion, and that as a member of a Christian denomination that has not had any significant examples of institutionalized anti-Semitism, she does not need to recognize the anti-Semitism that has occurred during the history of her faith.
I wasn't aware of the other thread, but thanks for letting me know the background, BinahYeteirah. I just saw that there was a closed thread down the page further, and I guess that's the one you're talking about.

In a logical sense, I can see the reasoning behind the thinking that a true Christian - someone who follows the message of Christ (which is to be loving, forgiving, kind, etc) wouldn't participate in anti-Semitism. As we know, atrocities have been committed in the name of MANY religions. It doesn't mean that the atrocity is a teaching of that religion though. I'm thinking of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Sure, *some* Muslims (the minority) support it, but most Muslims are peace loving and they have condemned it.

Having said that, I think it's absolutely necessary for Christians to acknowledge that anti-Semitism has occurred (and is still occurring) with people claming 'Christian' reasons for it (so that we can confront it and work towards educating people against it, and hopefully one day abolish it).

I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth - I didn't even read the other thread. And I'm absolutely not trying to justify or 'explain away' anti-Semitism which has been committed by the Church or by people who claim to be Christians. I'm not going to deny that it happened - all I am saying is that I personally don't believe that people who truly love and follow a man whose message was 'peace be with you' and 'love one another' would participate in something which goes against that message. Putting it into a parenting context ... I would hope that someone who claims to be a follower of Alfie Kohn wouldn't discipline their child with a switch, kwim? That's a really simplistic explanation which doesn't even touch how disgusting anti-Semitism is, I know. That's just *my* perspective. I know that very violent things have been done in the name of Christianity, but I'm arguing that those things should not be seen as teachings of the Jesus. Acknowledge them, but condemn them and commit to working against letting it happen again. Educate against them so that people turn against it and recognise it as anti-Christian and un-Biblical.

Having said that, I can also see why Jewish people would think that because it's committed by people who claim to be Christians, then it's a Christian pastime. If my family, cultural and racial history was plagued with hate crimes being committed against me by people claiming to follow someone, I too would assume it was a teaching of that church.

I personally would confront and challenge any person who claimed to be a Christian, yet displayed prejudice or persecution against someone from another religion (any religion, not just Judaism). But that's just me.

I'm not saying this to downplay the significance of anti-Semitism. I'm truly not. I'm horrified by it, and am actively teaching my children about fighting against it. I'm just trying to share why I believe someone may have said that it's not a Christian thing. I don't think it should be denied, I just hope that maybe my point of view (ie 'from the other side') can be heard too, although I realise that one person on a message board is likely to have little impact on opinions which have been formed by years of torment. I hope I haven't said anything offensive or that I get this thread pulled. My intent isn't to argue.

I was reading through the link given on the last page ... I had absolutely no idea that Jews were killed for 'torturing bread'. My goodness, that's so appalling. Not only that people would actually believe that stabbed bread would bleed, but that it was used as an excuse for anti-Semitism.

The point about Christians 'drinking blood' (personally I think it's a remembrance thing ie 'do this in memory of me' not 'become a vampire and drink this magic wine or grape juice which still tastes *just like* wine or grape juice and nothing like blood') while accusing Jewish people of doing the same was an interesting one.

I guess you can tell I don't believe in transubstantiation, eh?

I will admit that I have a lot of problems with some of the things taught in Churches these days. I think the message of Jesus has been lost in many Churches. I read an article a long time ago called 'Christian with a small c' (I think) which outlined some massive problems with many Churches. I'll see if I can find it, in case anyone is interested. My view probably has been influenced by my opinion of the Church ... but it's not a view which is uncommon among Christians these days.

Anyway I've written a novel. If you get through it - thanks for listening!

Peace
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#129 of 234 Old 01-18-2008, 04:09 AM
 
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My mom is a high school english teacher in a small city that draws from a wide rural area. My mom teaches Holocaust studies as part of the English dept. and the 9th grade social studies teacher has had me come in and talk about Judaism and Israel. I have to tell you, the ignorance out there is shocking. One of the first questions I always get asked when it comes to Q&A is "aren't you scared about going to hell?" The second is usually, "but how can you not believe in Jesus?" And that's AFTER I've spoken.
Yeah, there's lots of ignorance. However, some heartwarming stories have come out (I wish they were more prevalent). 'Paperclips' gives hope.
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#130 of 234 Old 01-18-2008, 04:11 AM
 
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BTW here's the article I was talking about. I got the name wrong.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1025-25.htm

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No Longer a Christian
by Karen Horst Cobb

I was told in Sunday school the word "Christian" means to be Christ-like, but the message I hear daily on the airwaves from the “christian ” media are words of war, violence, and aggression. Throughout this article I will spell Christian with a small c rather than a capital, since the term (as I usually hear it thrown about) does not refer to the teachings of the one I know as the Christ.
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#131 of 234 Old 01-18-2008, 04:17 AM
 
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Many groups of people have been persecuted by many other groups of people. I don't think Christians are the only group to ever demonstrate persecution or discrimination.
Many people have come here to make a comment to this effect. I think that if you examine you deep motives, you might feel defensive of your faith and be trying to negate the immense magnitude of Xian persecution of the Jews (by individuals and by Churches) and subtly delegitamize this thread.

Please consider this.
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#132 of 234 Old 01-18-2008, 04:21 AM
 
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Many people have come here to make a comment to this effect. I think that if you examine you deep motives, you might feel defensive of your faith and be trying to negate the immense magnitude of Xian persecution of the Jews (by individuals and by Churches) and subtly delegitamize this thread.

Please consider this.
Ouch.

Not defensive ... just upset that it has been done in the name of my faith. I really tried to convey that in my last post.

ETA I should have just made a 'ditto' to chfriend - she said it more clearly.
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#133 of 234 Old 01-19-2008, 05:27 PM
 
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Sorry Grace, I just read your ;ater posts and we were online at teh same time and I only read your first post when I responded. I likes what you had to say in you later posts. (But I do feel that what I wrote may have been relevant for other posters.)
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#134 of 234 Old 01-19-2008, 10:02 PM
 
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Many people have come here to make a comment to this effect. I think that if you examine you deep motives, you might feel defensive of your faith and be trying to negate the immense magnitude of Xian persecution of the Jews (by individuals and by Churches) and subtly delegitamize this thread.
I do not think it is the historical persecutions people are feeling defensive about. Christian PPs have all agreed that they took place, that they were horrific, and several have suggested ways to educate their families, fight anti-Semitism, or "reach out" to the Jewish community.

If we are being asked to acknowledge persecution of the Jews by Christians over the centuries, that has already been done, many times. I hereby do so once again. However, we are being asked to do something more...to acknowledge that the persecutions took place because Christianity, at its most basic doctrinal level, promotes hatred and oppression, specifically oppression of the Jews. That is both wrong to suggest, and unreasonable to expect Christians to acknowledge in any way.

It is very much like the situation Muslims find themselves in when acts of violence or terrorism are committed by radical Islamic groups or individuals. They are asked to do more than acknowledge the event; they are expected to admit that Islam is a religion of violence and brutality, or else risk being seen as supportive of terrorism, or in denial about it.

It is unreasonable to expect either Muslims or Christians to repudiate or insult their faith in order to demonstrate the sincerity of their feelings about violence or persecution.
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#135 of 234 Old 01-20-2008, 01:20 AM
 
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This is what I have been wondering about this thread. It is almost as if acknowledging that Jews have been persecuted in the name of Christianity is not enough, but that most people seem to want the Christians to admit that it is a basic teaching of the faith. Which it totally NOT true.

We, as in my family and every church I have ever attended, have always been taught that Jews are the Chosen of God. And the Scriptures clearly state that those who bless the Hebrews will be blessed and those who curse them will be cursed. We, as Christians, have been grafted into the vine, but we are not any better or worse than the ones born into the vine originally.

I acknowledge that much persecution of the Jews has happened in history in the name of Christianity, but I will never acknowledge that Christianity in any way is anti-semitic. Because if you follow the basic teachings of the Bible it is not. Though many may twist the Bible for their own purposes.

Any misspellings or grammatical errors in the above statement are intentional;
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This is what I have been wondering about this thread. It is almost as if acknowledging that Jews have been persecuted in the name of Christianity is not enough, but that most people seem to want the Christians to admit that it is a basic teaching of the faith. Which it totally NOT true.
And what many Christians, in defense of their faith and belief seem to continue to miss is that historically IT IS a basic teaching. And for some it still is (see link to billboard outside church?).
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#138 of 234 Old 01-20-2008, 03:49 AM
 
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And what many Christians, in defense of their faith and belief seem to continue to miss is that historically IT IS a basic teaching. And for some it still is (see link to billboard outside church?).
To what Christian Church are you speaking about? Because with so many denominations and a major split/distinction between Catholic and protostent chruches. To tie them all together as one "historrically basic teaching" is not logical or correct.

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This is getting tirsome. Yes, we know that there are many different denominations. But historically, they all diverged from the Catholic church and then the East/West split of Orthodox/Catholic that DID espouse such views. To say "but my church doesn't believe that" is well and good, but it ignores the history of Christianity. Protestants didn't just suddenly get light-beamed down to Earth in a vacuum, you know? And many of the same Protestant churches took YEARS to distance themselves (or HAVEN'T) from such beliefs.
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#140 of 234 Old 01-20-2008, 04:03 AM
 
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But again, this all goes back to history. All our history as Christians began at Jesus. So in some sense or another we are all inter-related, sure. But that does not make the basics of the Christian faith anti-semitic. And I am not speaking of just MY church, I am speaking from personal experience with MANY churches over the last 35 years of my life covering several different sects. As well as from my knowledge of scriptures that I have studied extensively. The scriptures are in no way anti-semitic, and that is the sole basis for my Christian beliefs. Church doctrines do differ from church to church, but I have also never come across that teaching within any of the many churches I have been a member of.

So again, I don't really understand what this thread is wanting from "me" as a Christian. To admit that the church teaches anti-semitic teachings? Because it that is what is being asked I will never do it, because it is simply untrue, from where I stand. Again, perhaps somewhere back in history, but not in any my experience. If you are asking that it has happened in the past, sure and it was horrid, but I can't change the past. All I can do is to change the future.

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#141 of 234 Old 01-20-2008, 04:24 AM
 
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But again, this all goes back to history. All our history as Christians began at Jesus. So in some sense or another we are all inter-related, sure. But that does not make the basics of the Christian faith anti-semitic. And I am not speaking of just MY church, I am speaking from personal experience with MANY churches over the last 35 years of my life covering several different sects. As well as from my knowledge of scriptures that I have studied extensively. The scriptures are in no way anti-semitic, and that is the sole basis for my Christian beliefs. Church doctrines do differ from church to church, but I have also never come across that teaching within any of the many churches I have been a member of.

So again, I don't really understand what this thread is wanting from "me" as a Christian. To admit that the church teaches anti-semitic teachings? Because it that is what is being asked I will never do it, because it is simply untrue, from where I stand. Again, perhaps somewhere back in history, but not in any my experience. If you are asking that it has happened in the past, sure and it was horrid, but I can't change the past. All I can do is to change the future.

kidzplenty, just curious did you see this post? any thoughts?

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#142 of 234 Old 01-20-2008, 04:50 AM
 
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No, I had not seen that post (mostly because I usually stay out of these kinds of discussions). And I must say that I am highly offended that a Christian church could say, much less teach that to it's members. And at this very moment, I am very glad that I am not now nor have I ever been a member of the Baptist church, if that is a fair representation of their beliefs and teachings.

My churches have always been along the lines of Charismatic and Pentecostal types, usually non-denominational, though the one I am currently a member of was an integration of a AA Baptist and a non-legalistic Pentecostal church. And I will restate, teachings like that would NEVER be allowed in my church. We have always been taught to have the up most respect of God's people, and by that meaning the Jews. Granted, we do hope for their conversion, and we do pray for them, as we would pray for anyone that is "lost", but we don't look down on them.

And we don't "blame" anyone for Jesus's death. I mean, really, if He had not died, we would not have the privilege of being saved. HE laid down His life, for us. The religious leaders at the time aided and instigated a riot that brought the fulfillment of the prophecies, but it was within His power to put a stop to it at any time. And the Roman rulers could have stopped it, and instead, gave permission for it. But His death was what just had to be. No one is "to blame".

And again, I do admit that persecution has happened, and even that it happened in the name of Christianity. Perhaps even historically, that "The Church" sanctioned it. But that still does not mean that the basics of the Christian faith nor the teachings of the church now are in any way anti-semitic.

Any misspellings or grammatical errors in the above statement are intentional;
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#143 of 234 Old 01-20-2008, 05:14 AM
 
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if the "scriptures" aren't anti semetic, then why is it that when I read "Paul" (was it? It was so long ago) that he was TOTALLY anti-semetic. Is this not counted as "Scriptures"? Cause it totally was at the Catholic school I went to.

not being snarky, just askin

also, if xtians are "grafted to the vine" and all that...well does that mean that you consider yourself "Jews" or the "real jews" or that the "jews as we know them today were chosen to recieve the messiah, but then the christians are the ones that ACCEPTED the messiah in Jesus?

I'm still kind of really confused, cause xians acknowledge that there is a difference between xians and jews but it seems here that they are saying that they are the same thing?

again, just being confused and asking as politely as I can.

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#144 of 234 Old 01-20-2008, 05:55 AM
 
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if the "scriptures" aren't anti semitic, then why is it that when I read "Paul" (was it? It was so long ago) that he was TOTALLY anti-semitic. Is this not counted as "Scriptures"? Cause it totally was at the Catholic school I went to.
Without knowing exactly what scriptures you are referring to, I can not even begin to answer this. I have studied the Scriptures for years and even spent several years in a Bible college, and I have never heard of this, though I guess it may be out there. Perhaps it is in Catholic teachings? (Not trying to be snarky either, but I am guessing Catholic teachings are a bit different than Protestant teachings.) I have read the books of Paul many times, and they are very "Christian" in a sense and teaching of how to run churches and such, but I have never read anything anti-semitic.

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also, if xtians are "grafted to the vine" and all that...well does that mean that you consider yourself "Jews" or the "real Jews" or that the "Jews as we know them today were chosen to receive the messiah, but then the Christians are the ones that ACCEPTED the messiah in Jesus?

I'm still kind of really confused, cause xians acknowledge that there is a difference between xians and Jews but it seems here that they are saying that they are the same thing?

again, just being confused and asking as politely as I can.
OK (not offended at all), and I suppose that there are different view points, but this is how I explain it.

The seed of Abraham, to whom God revealed Himself and made a covenant with, is His People. This was pasted down through time and history. When Jesus was born on earth, the embodiment of God, it was with the purpose to restore fellowship with "His People" to himself, for sin had created a division between God and His people. When Jesus did this, He brought salvation (a restoration) to all that believed, FIRST to the Jew, then beyond. (Romans 1:16) Salvation through Jesus was brought to the Jews, and when they turned it away in unbelief, it was given to the Gentiles (Romans 11). The Vine (being Jesus, John 15), has pruned from it by the Father all those that do not believe. And we, the gentiles are grafted into the vine once we come to a belief. For we were not originally of the vine (being that we were not of the Jewish line).

So, I, being grafted into the Vine, have become a "spiritual Jew", or an "adopted Jew". And Jesus was the "Jewish Messiah" sent by the God of the Jews for His People, but has adopted us as His own as well because of our belief in Him. There is the same God, but most Jews do not accept Jesus as their Messiah, therefore, to my best explanation (not trying to offend anyone but trying to put this in words to best explain what I mean without stepping on anyones toes), our God is the same, but the Jewish faith is incomplete. (Truly, I am not trying to start something, but putting it into words is difficult, especially on a public debate type board.)

OK, I think I answered the questions, and I hope I have not offended anyone, this is just how I am wording it trying to get across what is in my mind the best way I can.

Any misspellings or grammatical errors in the above statement are intentional;
they are placed there for the amusement of those who like to point them out.
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#145 of 234 Old 01-20-2008, 11:40 AM
 
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My churches have always been along the lines of Charismatic and Pentecostal types, usually non-denominational, though the one I am currently a member of was an integration of a AA Baptist and a non-legalistic Pentecostal church. And I will restate, teachings like that would NEVER be allowed in my church.
Unfortunately not all Pentecostal churches feel this way. Did you see this post?

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=117

This church posting the sign (that m2'7 referred to above) IS a Pentecostal church. So, while your church may not feel that way. Obviously some of them do.
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#146 of 234 Old 01-20-2008, 11:43 AM
 
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I know more than one Methodist bishop who teaches that praying for the conversion and attempting for the conversion of the Jews IS Anti-Semitic.

And Luther is the one who first "Protested" as in Protestant, also ragingly anti-Semitic.

Lemme see if I can find the link that merpk posted awhile back where mainly Paul talks about Jews in the NT. Not so complementary those quotes.

http://www.messiahtruth.com/anti.html

Much of the information in this essay has been extracted from the article[1] Removing Anti-Jewish Polemic from our Christian Lectionaries: A Proposal by Prof. Norman A. Beck[2], who is a New Testament scholar and Professor of Theology and Classical Languages at Texas Lutheran University. In his article, Prof. Beck deals with what he calls in some of his published books "… the specific texts identified as most problematic …", texts found in six of the 27 books that comprise the New Testament.

I checked these against http://www.blueletterbible.org/ And yep, these quotes do appear in the NT.

So it leaves me Are they all taken WILDLY out of context by a NT scholar?
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#147 of 234 Old 01-20-2008, 12:07 PM
 
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As someone who used to take this topic lightly, I find it interesting to come back now and read these responses.

Christians have managed to crusade against pretty much every faith and spiritual belief since the beginning of Christianity's inception, and the millions killed and the bloodshed left in its wake is really, truly mind-boggling. Perhaps this is a danger of mixing church and state. When a religion that is based in peace, love, and tolerance is twisted around to suit the leaders' need for power, well, this is what happens, no?

It's interesting that so many people downplay what the Jews have experienced - and continue to experience - for thousands of years by comparing them to this, that, or the other category of persecuted peoples. The difference, to me, in all of this is that thousands of years worth of misinformation is still intact. The rumblings of anti-semitism - even if it's just a joke about money here or a crack about Israel there - are still alive and well, and thanks to this misinformation, the Jews have never felt safe and equal as a people since their persecution began. And some feel that, jeez, look at the pattern throughout history -- could it only be a matter of time before some crazed world leader, drunk on these lies and yearning for power, decides to exterminate a few million more?

So yes, many Christians persecuted the Jews, along with many other cultural and religious peoples who did not accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior. It's such a shame, really, because the teachings of Jesus are antithetical to such godless behavior.
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#148 of 234 Old 01-20-2008, 12:12 PM
 
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#149 of 234 Old 01-20-2008, 02:49 PM
 
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Yes, we know that there are many different denominations. But historically, they all diverged from the Catholic church and then the East/West split of Orthodox/Catholic that DID espouse such views.
Christians on the board have been warned many, many times against explaining what another religion's teachings or scriptures "really" mean, particularly when they try to interpret Judaism. The same applies in reverse. Jewish posters are no more experts at what Christianity "really" teaches or what its scriptures actually mean, than Christians can speak with authority on what Jews truly believe.
We can agree on historical events, but please leave us to decide what we do or do not believe as part of our religion.
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#150 of 234 Old 01-20-2008, 03:12 PM
 
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Christians on the board have been warned many, many times against explaining what another religion's teachings or scriptures "really" mean, particularly when they try to interpret Judaism. The same applies in reverse. Jewish posters are no more experts at what Christianity "really" teaches or what its scriptures actually mean, than Christians can speak with authority on what Jews truly believe.
We can agree on historical events, but please leave us to decide what we do or do not believe as part of our religion.
yes, but those of us who were raised in the church (yes, we are here), can speak with authority about what WE were taught in the church. and i can't recall that Jews were specifically singled out for conversion in any church that i went to, but ALL people who weren't christian were to be saved or they were going to hell.

and the first anti-semitic slur i ever heard came from my mom and we were charismatic/pentecostal, bible-believing and all that (they still are).
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