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#1 of 118 Old 02-02-2008, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Christians...

What do you teach your kids about "How the world began?"

I am confused because according to creation science, the earth is young. this is the theory I think is more likley.

But then there is the far more popular theory that the earth is millions and millions of years old.

What do you teach? I am going to have to face this at some point!!
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#2 of 118 Old 02-02-2008, 07:46 PM
 
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I'm sure someone with more experience will have a better answer but I thought I'd give it a shot.

DS is 9 so we're not really doing science right now. However, he's old enough that he's seen plenty of books with the evolution theory. The curriculum we use is Christian based so we have bible time and started our history timeline with creation.

I have done alot of reading about creationism prior to teaching it. Through my reading I decided just to teach exactly what is written in the Bible. Mystery of History takes you right through it. We've talked about how archaeology supports scripture, the difference between natural selection and evolution. There's so much to talk about - factually - that ds doesn't have a problem with it.

I think it's scarier for me because I know the viewpoint most of the world has and what schools are teaching. It feels weird to me because I'm just now coming around to creationism myself. Henry Morris' books are good - they helped alot. Plus, and ds and I were just talking about this the other day, I don't believe I, as a Christian, can pick and choose what I take word for word and what is just a "story." I think I'd be putting myself in a very vulnerable position. Anybody would tell you that you can't bring a person back from the dead but if I agree with drs./experts who make that statement that would mean Jesus wasn't resurrected and where would that leave my salvation? Or what about the virgin birth? There's so many examples.

Frankly, I don't even think most Christians are pure creationists. There are varying degrees - all creation or creation but not in 6 days or creation with help of evolution. www.answersingenesis.com is an informative resource that may help.

So basically, I teach the Bible. We skip the parts in resource books that talk about millions of years. We've covered why creationism makes more sense (to us) and why we believe God's word as it is written.

HTH
April
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#3 of 118 Old 02-02-2008, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Frankly, I don't even think most Christians are pure creationists.

HTH
April
I agree...And I think the issue is that I dont even know where I stand on this issue.

And with a 4 yr old and a 2 yr old who are reading dinosaur books all the time, its really hard for me to read out loud "The dinosaurs lived millions of years ago."

I am not sure of that
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#4 of 118 Old 02-02-2008, 08:04 PM
 
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we teach creation as how it happened and evelution as a theory.

as for dinosaur books and such we just ermind them that not everything you read in a book is true and scientist don't agree. even the ones who agree dinos are very old they don't seem to agree on how old. it is a good lesson in "you can't believe everything you read.

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#5 of 118 Old 02-02-2008, 08:18 PM
 
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Try Henry Morris. My library carried his older books. His new one "Bibilical Creationism" I have but haven't read. Also, Ken Ham (www.answersingenesis.com) has a book called The New Answers Book. 25 question on Creation/Evolution and the Bible. I actually got that one in the book aisle at our grocery store! I haven't read that one either I got it for dh - who isn't a creationist and doesn't want to sit down and read a book thoroughly He thinks I'm getting "taken" (we have different religious backgrounds) and should bone up on my evolution which I think is a ridiculous statement b/c I got plenty of evolution in jr. high, high school, and undergrad.

It was weird when we sat down to do the timeline and the MOH book instructed us to put dinosaurs on Noah's ark. I was squirmy - just b/c evolution is SO ingrained. I believe the texts I've read on creationism but it's difficult to talk about w/non-believers.

Lilyka's point about the dino books is good. Ds was a self-taught reader at 2 yrs. and devoured dino books. I didn't stop him - I didn't see a reason to. He literally read dozens of book based on evolution (you know, the little kiddie science books) and I thought accepting creationism would be difficult for him but it wasn't.

It's hard. I know how you feel. Awkward. Worried. I am thankful that I have a homeschooling support group that is also teaching creationism and a faithful friend who helps answer questions that I or my son might have.
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#6 of 118 Old 02-02-2008, 08:32 PM
 
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Not a Christian here, but was raised one. And I had quite the inquiring mind.

When I was 6, I remember asking my Grandma how the dinosaurs lived without killing Adam and Eve! LOL My grandma told me that when God created the earth, that the Bible says in "one day" but back then that one day was a really really long time.

Is there a passage in the bible that states exactly when the earth was created according to Genesis? Where is the 5,000 number from?
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#7 of 118 Old 02-02-2008, 08:35 PM
 
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I teach then creation, but leave the door open to evolution when they are older, For now the science curric we use focuses on creation so that is what I stick with.

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#8 of 118 Old 02-02-2008, 08:39 PM
 
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Christians...

What do you teach? I am going to have to face this at some point!!
I'm a Christian. I don't believe that the bible is meant for us to interpret entirely literally, so I see no conflict between the story of Creation and the science of evolution. I believe that God created the world, and that evolution is likely the method He used.

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#9 of 118 Old 02-02-2008, 08:43 PM
 
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I haven't crossed that bridge yet. My boys are 5 and under and are happy with just knowing that the God made everyone and everything. I don't know the answer to how old the earth is, and I honestly never cared! I can totally see my 5 year old asking me though, he's very inquisitive.

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#10 of 118 Old 02-02-2008, 08:46 PM
 
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For now, I teach that God created the world in 6 days a long time ago. No millions and billions of years, but I don't know where you're getting the 5,000 year figure from... there are no dates mentioned as far as I know.

When we watch National Geographic specials and the like, if they mention "millions of years ago" or cavemen, I point out that some people believe in that, but that we know that that's not true, because the Bible tells us it's not. They are young and have not questioned past that.

I do have books and other resources available for them for when they're older, that give more of the scientific facts that support creationism, but for now, we haven't delved too deeply into it.
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#11 of 118 Old 02-02-2008, 08:58 PM
 
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Christians...

What do you teach your kids about "How the world began?"

I am confused because according to the Bible, the earth is 5000 years old, and there is alot of science to proove it.

But then there is the far more popular theory that the earth is millions and millions of years old.

What do you teach? I am going to have to face this at some point!!
I am a Christian. I disagree that the Bible says the earth is 5000 years old.

I teach my children that (for the simplicity of a message board post) God made the big bang and that evolution is part of his extremely way-cool design.

Honestly, as a Christian, I do not see a conflict between real science and faith.
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#12 of 118 Old 02-02-2008, 09:49 PM
 
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I also teach DS that not everything from science is true, especially things that people are looking at evidence for and are assigning meaning through their worldview, but have not actually seen. I love Answers in Genesis as well We get the magazine and it is packed with great information and has a small kids section that DS enjoys.

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#13 of 118 Old 02-02-2008, 09:56 PM
 
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I choose not to limit God or His methods. We treat evolution as a scientific theory (and discuss what that means as opposed to a literary theory), and then the fact that nobody really knows - we do our best with the evidence as presented and keep searching for more understanding.
We also look at comparable stories from other religions (like Pandora's Box) that show strong similarities between them and the biblical stories and discuss how, with an oral history, it is possible to have stories end up entertwining or changing based on a person's beliefs -like a rather elaborate game of telephone.

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#14 of 118 Old 02-03-2008, 12:06 AM
 
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I believe the usual Creationist figure is 6,000 years, not 5,000--but, as someone who believes Genesis is history, albeit poeticised, I don't like the attitude that 'the Bible teaches that the earth is X years old'. The Bible does not, in fact, say how old the earth is. The 6,000 years figure is arrived at by adding up genealogies and ages in Genesis, which is kind of cunning except that genealogies in Genesis weren't necessarily father-son-father-son all the way down. 'Father of' may have meant 'ancestor of' rather than literal 'father', meaning that there could well be gaps in the chronology--either unimportant generations, deemed not significant enough to warrant mention, or generations deliberately 'blotted out' from the record because of sin, etc. So using the genealogies as 'proof' that the earth is a specific age is dubious at best--and of course, there's the theoretical possibility that Adam and Eve lived, pre-Fall, in the Garden for hundreds of years.

As a Christian who plans to homeschool, I plan to teach the theory of evolution correctly--I've seen far too many Christians who misunderstand evolutionary theory and teach a strawman, which is frankly embarrassing. (Not that I'm a hotshot scientist at all, I might add--DH is better at that sort of thing, so he'll probably take over the kids' scientific education at some point). I don't want my kids spouting nonsense like 'Evolution says we came from monkeys' or 'If evolution were true, there wouldn't still be monkeys today'. I want them to know what the theory means, how it was arrived at, its moral and sociological implications, the philosophy behind it, and so on--the whole package. Ultimately, when my children are old enough to understand, I will teach them the philosophy behind secular science as a whole, and how it is fundamentally flawed. Rather than just focussing in on evolution, I will show them how secular science of any kind, when challenged, cannot philosophically defend itself, and how on the other hand Christianity provides a cohesive worldview through which most scientific theory and practice can be logically and philosophically justified. A complicated task, which will be much more demanding than simply saying 'We're Christians, we don't believe this' or flinging them a copy of Creation magazine; but a necessary one, I think. Most Christians are simply not philosophically competent, which leads them to think in secular terms and believe that the evidence for 'the other side' is overwhelming.

How far my children will debate the evidentials I'll probably leave largely up to them, as I'm more concerned in their education with giving them a solid philosophical grounding, so they can 'fill in the blanks' throughout their lives. But if they happen to be interested in white hole cosmology or genetics, I'm sure we can hunt up some kind of learning system.

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#15 of 118 Old 02-03-2008, 01:11 AM
 
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I am confused because according to the Bible, the earth is 5000 years old, and there is alot of science to proove it.
Where is this science proving the world is 5,000 years old? I'd like to see it. Thanks.

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#16 of 118 Old 02-03-2008, 01:57 AM
 
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I was raised Christian, but was not taught Creationism...ever. I was told that those who wrote down the Creation story needed to put it into terms that they understood, and that in no way diminished the Glory of God. What we see as 7 days and nights could have been miliseconds or thousands of years. Having a more sophisticated understanding via science than what the first peoples knew to be "true" is not an insult to God, rather more of a testament to what truly awesome work is being attributed to him. Look what God set in motion!

Point being, I never thought having to take every word as literal truth in the Bible was a necessary condition to being a good Christian.

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#17 of 118 Old 02-03-2008, 02:54 AM
 
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Theories are ideas hypothesised to describe something in the realm of knowledge that are yet to be verified.
As far as creationism is concerned, I thing the anthropic principle is interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle - the earth is too orderly to have happened by accident.
As far as the actual timing of it - I don't think that is important. In fact, if you read the Bible carefully it does not specifically say that the earth was created 6000 years ago. The word in Genesis 1:2 is that the earth became without form and void - not that it was created that way. The actual hebrew word is translated as was in some translations, but the word is better translated as became. We do not have full understanding of time and how the earth developed and we get more and more scientific knowledge all of the time.
It is just good to teach our children that God created the earth.

As far as the theory of evolution - it works on a small microscopic scale, but there is no evidence of one species turning into another species.
Even all the experiments with fruit flies that show "evolution" just show the flies developing larger wings or something. They don't ever turn into something else besides a fruit fly.
I think punctuated equillibrium is interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium
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#18 of 118 Old 02-03-2008, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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As far as the theory of evolution - it works on a small microscopic scale, but there is no evidence of one species turning into another species.
Even all the experiments with fruit flies that show "evolution" just show the flies developing larger wings or something. They don't ever turn into something else besides a fruit fly.
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I dont only base my faith on the Bible, I base it on what I feel in my heart is true.

And in my heart, I belive God is telling me that evolution is not how the earth developed.
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#19 of 118 Old 02-03-2008, 01:18 PM
 
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I assumed the op, by posting 5000 yrs., meant a young earth. Of course there's no way of knowing exactly how old the earth is but there's a huge difference in teaching millions of years and 10000 or less.

On our timeline, we have creation around 6000 yrs. BUT our little markers all have question marks on them b/c we understand we're just making the best guess we can with the information we have. We have lots of question marks or circa's b/c, in the beginning, it's just too hard to put a date - contradicting books shows that.
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#20 of 118 Old 02-03-2008, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I assumed the op, by posting 5000 yrs., meant a young earth. .
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#21 of 118 Old 02-03-2008, 06:13 PM
 
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The theory of evolution does not discuss how the world began. Evolution discusses change in the inherited traits of a population from one generation to the next and how this process causes populations of organisms to change over time. Abiogenesis is the study of the question of how life may have began from non-life. The big bang theory is a model of the universe that shows how the universe started and expanded, and created the solar system, our galaxy, etc.

Pretty much all of biology and natural sciences base their studies on the theory of evolution. Big Bang is mostly a field of study for astronomical and mathematical scientists. (in other words, for the really nerdy ) Abiogenesis is a field of study for the natural scientists. All three are mind bending in nature, and require years of study to truly comprehend, because they are so immense, especially the study of evolution. These just aren't theories you can learn in a day, week or semester.

I just wanted to clarify what evolution is, because I've heard soooo many people say that evolution explained how life or the universe began or how the world was created, and that's not what it's about at all. They are seperate fields of study. HTH

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#22 of 118 Old 02-03-2008, 06:25 PM
 
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The theory of evolution does not discuss how the world began. Evolution discusses change in the inherited traits of a population from one generation to the next and how this process causes populations of organisms to change over time. Abiogenesis is the study of the question of how life may have began from non-life. The big bang theory is a model of the universe that shows how the universe started and expanded, and created the solar system, our galaxy, etc.

Pretty much all of biology and natural sciences base their studies on the theory of evolution. Big Bang is mostly a field of study for astronomical and mathematical scientists. (in other words, for the really nerdy ) Abiogenesis is a field of study for the natural scientists. All three are mind bending in nature, and require years of study to truly comprehend, because they are so immense, especially the study of evolution. These just aren't theories you can learn in a day, week or semester.

I just wanted to clarify what evolution is, because I've heard soooo many people say that evolution explained how life or the universe began or how the world was created, and that's not what it's about at all. They are seperate fields of study. HTH

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#23 of 118 Old 02-03-2008, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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yeah, i know.

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The theory of evolution does not discuss how the world began. Evolution discusses change in the inherited traits of a population from one generation to the next and how this process causes populations of organisms to change over time. Abiogenesis is the study of the question of how life may have began from non-life. The big bang theory is a model of the universe that shows how the universe started and expanded, and created the solar system, our galaxy, etc.

Pretty much all of biology and natural sciences base their studies on the theory of evolution. Big Bang is mostly a field of study for astronomical and mathematical scientists. (in other words, for the really nerdy ) Abiogenesis is a field of study for the natural scientists. All three are mind bending in nature, and require years of study to truly comprehend, because they are so immense, especially the study of evolution. These just aren't theories you can learn in a day, week or semester.

I just wanted to clarify what evolution is, because I've heard soooo many people say that evolution explained how life or the universe began or how the world was created, and that's not what it's about at all. They are seperate fields of study. HTH
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#24 of 118 Old 02-03-2008, 08:59 PM
 
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Where is this science proving the world is 5,000 years old? I'd like to see it. Thanks.
answersingenesis.com has a lot of information about young earth creation, if you would really like to see it.

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#25 of 118 Old 02-03-2008, 09:18 PM
 
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#26 of 118 Old 02-03-2008, 09:56 PM
 
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answersingenesis.com has a lot of information about young earth creation, if you would really like to see it.
Well, she asked about the science, and answersingenesis.com is anything but. Sorry.
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#27 of 118 Old 02-03-2008, 11:06 PM
 
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Well, she asked about the science, and answersingenesis.com is anything but. Sorry.
How's that?

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#28 of 118 Old 02-03-2008, 11:32 PM
 
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I'll have to disagree that answersingensis does not have scientific information on their website. They have plenty of other stuff, too, but the site is dedicated to helping Christians answer the question "How was the world created" scientifically. They go to great lengths to use science to prove their points.

This might be the worse possible analogy but here goes. When I started reading about birthing, about how interventions (EFM, vag. exams, etc.), even seemingly innocuous interventions were unnecessary and potentially harmful it came together in my mind so easily. I read that I could birth w/o being in the hospital w/a needle in my back AND w/o a dr.! It just made sense! I bought it all hook, line and sinker. Plus, the research was there to prove that I was making good, safe choices for me and the baby. So I have my babies at home w/mws. However, I'm in a minority with my birth choices. Even if you birth in a hospital w/o meds you are in the minority. The masses simply don't buy into most of our (on MDC) line of logic REGARDLESS of the research.

So then I came to creationism w/homeschooling. What to do? I'm a Christian but who honestly can believe that God whipped everything up in six days, end of story? I began to read and question. My mom was less than thrilled that I would question the authoratitive text of The Bible but I need facts sometimes. For a second I thought maybe she was right. I believe, I have faith, but I just love it when archaeologists or scientists find something that can only be explained by a divine creator or that proves that an event in The Bible happened just as it is written, yk? I think questions are great and I believe the answers are in the Bible and science. I don't find the two contradictory at all. Sure, there are some over zealous Christian scientists who are reaching w/their data BUT there are other Christian scientists who have studied, researched, and written excellent books on the topic.

So my point is there is scientific research to support creationism. However, b/c the scientific community would implode if they recognized a Divine Creator, they prefer to continue to tell the masses Christian scientists have it wrong - their quacks or their research is actually not as "scientific" as theirs is. And that's just not true. It's actually very similiar to what an MD might tell a first time, uninformed mother - No honey, you don't want to pass up the epidural, etc. You have to dig. The information is there.

And in the end - we're still not all going to agree I look at my education as a continuum - I read, experience, learn, question, then something else comes along and turns it upside down again. That happened with my birthing, too.

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#29 of 118 Old 02-03-2008, 11:45 PM
 
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I haven't read the entire thread but as a Roman Catholic, I have not conflict between natural selection and my Faith. Faith begins where reason ends and these days that is empirical science... and I accept evolution.

Remember there are two versions of the creation story in the bible--

So our Holy story isn't factual but literary by design.

Faith begins where reason ends. Period.

I don't have a problem teaching evolution to my children. It doesn't change the fact that God picked up some earth and Breathed his Life-Breath into and and Created man.

And if you want to be really fundamental about it, then read it in Hebrew. Then come back and talk to me about it.

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#30 of 118 Old 02-04-2008, 02:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by elfinbaby View Post
I'll have to disagree that answersingensis does not have scientific information on their website. They have plenty of other stuff, too, but the site is dedicated to helping Christians answer the question "How was the world created" scientifically. They go to great lengths to use science to prove their points.
Again, there is no science on that website. It's a crock of lies and misinformation meant for people who never learned real science (or who tried to learn it but their parents kept them ignorant). You want REAL science? You'll find it here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/gquery
These are the databases/programs that real scientists use everyday.

I'm sorry, but as a former researcher in genetics, it makes me steamed to hear about children whose curiosity leads them to want to learn science, but instead their parents feed them answersingenesis CRAP. I just want to cry.
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