Scientology! I have so many questions... - Page 4 - Mothering Forums
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#91 of 117 Old 05-15-2008, 12:57 PM
 
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I just want to clarify I wasn't attempting to be obtuse or accusatory or anything with my question. It's something I hear people bring up a lot as proof that Scientology is "evil" and a cult instead of an actual religion, so I figured I might as well ask an actual member instead of forming an opinion based solely off naysayers and wikipedia.
that is, if you belive in "good" and "evil." some people don't.

here is janet reno's def. of cult: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JroymBDd1H4 nice.
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#92 of 117 Old 05-15-2008, 02:46 PM
 
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I just want to clarify I wasn't attempting to be obtuse or accusatory or anything with my question. It's something I hear people bring up a lot as proof that Scientology is "evil" and a cult instead of an actual religion, so I figured I might as well ask an actual member instead of forming an opinion based solely off naysayers and wikipedia.
That's probably always a good idea.

I never knew anything about fair game before now. It was gone before my time.
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#93 of 117 Old 05-15-2008, 05:12 PM
 
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I am really pleased to see that this thread is still alive. You guys all ask really good questions.

I have a few more-

What are your personal views about Operation Freakout (CBS did a story about it, part of which can be seen here) and the case of Paulette Cooper?

Are you aware of what happened to Lisa McPherson?

In regards to Scientology's stance on psychiatry, do you find it to be in conflict with L. Ron Hubbard's own search for mental help in 1947, as seen here (zoom in, if needed)?

Have you read or heard this statement from Lawrence Brennan, former Legal Branch I Director World Wide Guardian’s Office?

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#94 of 117 Old 05-15-2008, 08:04 PM
 
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training for auditors was mentioned and i was wondering what that entailed. also, are there any research studies addressing the effectiveness of auditing? would a person have to be a member of the church to receive auditing?
Auditor training is very extensive. There is a 13 page description of it here.

Anyone undergoing auditing on there own terms can vouche for it's effectiveness. I know it works after receiving it. I am more able as a person, I have an easier time thinking for myself, making decisions without looking for approval or worrying about upsetting someone. These were problems for me before I received auditing.

Anyone can get auditing. All Scientology centers have free Introductory Dianetics auditing. After that, it is up to you whether you receive it or not. Anyone can practice Scientology even without getting auditing (there is a LOT to Scientology besides auditing).
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#95 of 117 Old 05-15-2008, 08:23 PM
 
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as i understand it, from reading here and doing some research on my own... is that auditing can be similar to hypno-therapy. address subconscious "programming" that is affecting your conscious thoughts/feelings/behaviors/etc and via suggestion change the programming to be positive. because all hynosis is self-hypnosis (i.e. you cannot be hypnotized without willingly participating) you cannot be "brainwashed" in this process. that is also why anyone could become an auditor by reading books... the basic hypnosis techniques can be learned quickly from reading and practicing. and once you personally are familiar with how it works, you could teach yourself cues to enter self-hynosis to do this work using recordings, etc.

i'm sure there is more to it than that, seeing as it is a religious/spiritual experience... but from a layman's and future hypnotherapist's perspective what you are describing makes total sense.

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#96 of 117 Old 05-15-2008, 08:33 PM
 
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There's no promotion either way from the Church proper. Individual members will promote whatever they want. I promote breastfeeding. The local LLL leader down here is a Scientologist.

I was raised on the formula as were my brothers, though we all had al least 2-3 weeks of nursing. My older sister was nursed for over a year.

Please keep in mind that the formula was written down in the early 50s. IIRC, the formula scrips handed out by doctors back then were made of evap milk and corn syrup, and the powdered formulas were not more than powdered milk and corn syrup solids.
The barley formula was a MAJOR improvement over those two options.
Even in the 70's my mom was told to give me 2% milk sweetened with corn syrup (the doc told her formula was making babies too fat, so 2% milk should be used!). So I can see the barely formula having more nutrients than that. Although I personally would never consider it a replacement for breastfeeding.

But, I think, rather than asking if Scientology promoted breastfeeding, I should have asked whether or not Scientology does anything to correct L. Ron Hubbard's misinformation when he states "one should forget breast feeding" along with promotion of his formula. It sounds to me like Scientology is obviously not against breastfeeding, but my concern is for people who may take the teachings literally and ditch breastfeeding for the barley formula if the information has not been updated for current times.

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#97 of 117 Old 05-15-2008, 08:41 PM
 
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But, I think, rather than asking if Scientology promoted breastfeeding, I should have asked whether or not Scientology does anything to correct L. Ron Hubbard's misinformation when he states "one should forget breast feeding" along with promotion of his formula. It sounds to me like Scientology is obviously not against breastfeeding, but my concern is for people who may take the teachings literally and ditch breastfeeding for the barley formula if the information has not been updated for current times.
LRH corrected this himself in a later text which says something along the lines of "the baby should be fed a high protein formula if the mother is not breastfeeding".

There is also something written, not by LRH, saying to supplement with cod liver oil and nutritional yeast separately, or what your pediatrician recommends, as well as not using honey for babies under a year.

And, in the end, people will do what they think is best and what they feel they should do. I know many, many breastfeeding Scientologists. The ones that I know that use the formula, would have used Similac or other ABM if not for the barley formula.
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#98 of 117 Old 05-15-2008, 09:35 PM
 
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LRH corrected this himself in a later text which says something along the lines of "the baby should be fed a high protein formula if the mother is not breastfeeding".

There is also something written, not by LRH, saying to supplement with cod liver oil and nutritional yeast separately, or what your pediatrician recommends, as well as not using honey for babies under a year.

And, in the end, people will do what they think is best and what they feel they should do. I know many, many breastfeeding Scientologists. The ones that I know that use the formula, would have used Similac or other ABM if not for the barley formula.
Perfect, exactly what I wanted to know! and am glad to hear it. Thank you!

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#99 of 117 Old 05-21-2008, 07:31 PM
 
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Does Scientology have an official stance or opinion on RIC?
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#100 of 117 Old 05-26-2008, 11:06 AM
 
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What if someone has something serious, like, say, schizophrenia? Is Scientology still against psychiatric help for those people?
Yes. For more info on psychiatric "help", you can go here and here. The second link has nothing to do with Scientology but clearly outlines psychiatric abuses from someone who has been there.
I'm confused by this "answer". What exactly does Scientology do for the person who's got schizophrenia? Or do you not accept that diagnosis since it's a psychiatric diagnosis? What then do you do for someone who has all the symptoms of schizophrenia.

Also, what do psychiatric abuses have to do with anything? There are websites about Scientology abuses too but I do not see you rejecting it on that basis.

Is there a reason besides the abuses that Scientology rejects psychiatry?
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#101 of 117 Old 05-26-2008, 01:33 PM
 
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I'm confused by this "answer". What exactly does Scientology do for the person who's got schizophrenia? Or do you not accept that diagnosis since it's a psychiatric diagnosis? What then do you do for someone who has all the symptoms of schizophrenia.

Also, what do psychiatric abuses have to do with anything? There are websites about Scientology abuses too but I do not see you rejecting it on that basis.

Is there a reason besides the abuses that Scientology rejects psychiatry?
(note: I am NOT a Scientologist, nor do I play one on the intertubes)

The first site she linked has this information about themselves:

Quote:
he Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR) is a non-profit, public benefit organization dedicated to investigating and exposing psychiatric violations of human rights. It also ensures that criminal acts within the psychiatric industry are reported to the proper authorities and acted upon.

CCHR was founded in 1969 by the Church of Scientology and the internationally acclaimed author, Dr. Thomas Szasz, Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry at the State University of New York, Syracuse. At that time, the victims of psychiatry were a forgotten minority group, warehoused under terrifying conditions in institutions around the world. Because of this, CCHR penned a Mental Health Declaration of Human Rights that has served as its guide for mental health reform.
From that site, I have a small piece of info regarding schizophrenia:

Quote:
For example, “Mrs. J,” diagnosed as schizophrenic after she began hearing voices in her head, had deteriorated to the point where she stopped talking and could not bathe, eat or go to the toilet without help. A thorough physical exam determined she was not properly metabolizing the glucose that the brain needs for energy. Once treated, she dramatically changed, singing Christmas carols, talking to people, and completely stabilized. “She has completely recovered and shows no lingering trace of her former mental state,” a friend stated.
The main focus seems to be finding a medical cause for the behavioral problem. Here they have a pdf with information on drug free ways of treating patients diagnosed as schizophrenic.

They consider psychiatry to be inaccurate. Well, this:
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One of CCHR's primary concerns with psychiatry is its unscientific diagnostic system. Unlike medical diagnosis, psychiatrists categorize symptoms only, not disease. Jeffrey A. Schaler, Ph.D., says, "The notion of scientific validity, though not an act, is related to fraud. Validity refers to the extent to which something represents or measures what it purports to represent or measure. When diagnostic measures do not represent what they purport to represent, we say that the measures lack validity... The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-IV) published by the American Psychiatric Association is notorious for low scientific validity."
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#102 of 117 Old 05-26-2008, 02:15 PM
 
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Does Scientology have an official stance or opinion on RIC?
What is RIC?

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(note: I am NOT a Scientologist, nor do I play one on the intertubes)
Thanks, Amey, for answering even though you are not a Scientologist! I keep thinking this thread is over and done until I get an email with new posts, so sorry for not answering promptly sometimes.

Anyway, not knowing anyone personally who has schizophrenia, I have no idea and have never looked into Scientology opinions on this (beyond knowing that psychiatric help is not condoned for mental conditions)! So I'm glad Rachel answered and that Amey elaborated

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#103 of 117 Old 05-26-2008, 02:21 PM
 
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What is RIC?
Routine Infant Circumcision

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#104 of 117 Old 05-26-2008, 02:23 PM
 
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Does Scientology have an official stance or opinion on RIC?
Oh, I figured it out. I have never seen anything from Scientology on the topic of circumcision, but as a Scientologist operating on the Scientology principles I am familiar with, I would never circumcise a child. I know there are Scientologists who do, but since this definitely falls under the category of creating an engram for the baby, I don't know what they're thinking!

Just to reiterate, this is MY opinion, not (that I know of) that of Scientology.

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#105 of 117 Old 05-26-2008, 06:14 PM
 
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FTR, I have a friend who was born in to Scientology in the 70s and he was circumcized.
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#106 of 117 Old 05-26-2008, 08:26 PM
 
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You stated and I've heard before that scientologists believe that a child's spirit chooses his/her parents.

I'm assuming scientology doesn't have anything against adoption, since Tom Cruise has two adopted children (I could be wrong, of course)...my question is, what do scientologists think about the children's pre-natal choice in that matter...did adopted children choose "wrongly" when they went to their biological parents?

Very interesting thread....
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#107 of 117 Old 05-26-2008, 09:02 PM
 
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I've heard the stories about Xenu. If it is in the upper levels I wouldn't know it because I am not there yet. If it is there, well, OK.

I believe there is life outside of this planet.

I don't worship aliens. I don't commune with aliens. I've never seen one or spoken to one.

It is not an all important subject by any means.
FWIW, I have never heard that scientologists worship aliens or anything like that. I don't think it is the common perception (but maybe I'm wrong).

And I have no problem with the idea there might be life somewhere else and maybe even panspermia.

You would think with all that quiet gentle birth and early trauma stuff, scientologists would be 100% against RIC. I wonder why it isn't policy.
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#108 of 117 Old 05-27-2008, 10:25 AM
 
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You stated and I've heard before that scientologists believe that a child's spirit chooses his/her parents.

I'm assuming scientology doesn't have anything against adoption, since Tom Cruise has two adopted children (I could be wrong, of course)...my question is, what do scientologists think about the children's pre-natal choice in that matter...did adopted children choose "wrongly" when they went to their biological parents?

Very interesting thread....
Kathee, I think I messed up by mentioning this because this was more my belief than a Scientology thing. Scientologists believe that people are spiritual beings, when they are operating bodies and when they are not, so, of course, a being makes choices whether he is in a body or not, so to me it makes sense that if a being decides to come be my baby--it was a decision! I have not specifically read that in any Scientology texts, but said texts are myriad and I have much yet to read so . . .

Scientology is certainly not against adoption. It's one of those things that I don't think is specifically addressed (not really a spiritual question) but I know several Scientologists with adopted children, including my good friend with twin girls adopted from China. Scientology definitely does encourage caring for children and making the world a better place for everyone, and I feel that adoption is along those lines.

I've personally wondered about people choosing to come into families that I would not want to be part of (abusive, for example) and my PERSONAL thoughts are that we do stupid things when we are alive and when we are not. Maybe they came to that family because they knew someone in that family in another life and were drawn to that connection. Maybe they are accustomed to that kind of family life/environment and did not go far to look for a new body. Could be many reasons. Again, this is my speculation. I never read any of this in Scientology. So, HTH.

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#109 of 117 Old 05-27-2008, 10:31 AM
 
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You would think with all that quiet gentle birth and early trauma stuff, scientologists would be 100% against RIC. I wonder why it isn't policy.
I agree that Scientologists ought to be against RIC. But when Ron wrote about the long range mental and spiritual effects on a person involved with moments of pain and unconsciousness, he did not (that I know of), then list out all the ways a person could experience such trauma. That's my answer to why it isn't policy. It just isn't addressed as part of spiritual doctrine.

Although, there might be Jewish families in Scientology that do feel it is part of their spiritual doctrine to DO it. I don't personally know any Scientologists who also consider themselves Jewish. My husband's father was raised Jewish but he is not practicing Judaism, and is a Scientologist, and my husband is intact.

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#110 of 117 Old 06-03-2008, 03:27 AM
 
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I am really pleased to see that this thread is still alive. You guys all ask really good questions.

I have a few more-

What are your personal views about Operation Freakout (CBS did a story about it, part of which can be seen here) and the case of Paulette Cooper?

Are you aware of what happened to Lisa McPherson?

In regards to Scientology's stance on psychiatry, do you find it to be in conflict with L. Ron Hubbard's own search for mental help in 1947, as seen here (zoom in, if needed)?

Have you read or heard this statement from Lawrence Brennan, former Legal Branch I Director World Wide Guardian’s Office?
Yes, I watched quite a frightening video about Lisa Mcpherson a couple of weeks ago Tragic and worrying.
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#111 of 117 Old 06-03-2008, 05:16 AM
 
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As a Scientologist I believe that I am a spiritual being inhabiting a body. I believe that I have lived many lifetimes in many bodies, and that when this body dies I will get another one. I also believe that my daughter (now three years old) choose my dh and I and came to be our daughter and be in our family intentionally.
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My ds (he's almost 4), tells me all the time that he chose me from the spirit world to be his mama. That's pretty cool to hear that there is a religion that actually believes that. We're agnostic, btw, with a strict belief that when people strongly feel faith in what they believe, that it's 100% true for them. That includes beliefs about afterlife, etc.


These are not new concepts to Scientology.

They are very standard and ancient Jewish mystical concepts, that our souls are constantly returning to new lives, and that children choose their parents. And that each people has its own truths.




Am still not getting what Scientology believes . Can anyone clarify this? Is there a core belief system, beyond the self-help psychiatric-override thing going on?
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#112 of 117 Old 06-03-2008, 06:32 AM
 
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Can I ask a question? I was just wonder how Scientologists (and obviously I realize you can't speak for an entire religion, but wondered if you had a feeling) feel about Tom Cruise being held up as "the" example of Scientology in the media? Would there be a feeling that at least Scientology is being opened up to people, or is it a worry that people are using his (as considered by some) wacky behaviour to look down on Scientology?

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#113 of 117 Old 06-06-2008, 09:03 PM
 
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Can I ask a question? I was just wonder how Scientologists (and obviously I realize you can't speak for an entire religion, but wondered if you had a feeling) feel about Tom Cruise being held up as "the" example of Scientology in the media? Would there be a feeling that at least Scientology is being opened up to people, or is it a worry that people are using his (as considered by some) wacky behaviour to look down on Scientology?
Any publicity is good publicity A lot of people come into our churches just to find out what all the fuss is about (anonymous fuss included).

I don't really worry about people looking down on Scientologybecause of that. The one's who do such things without ever knowing about the church or even talking to a Scientologist, simply basing their conclusions on rumors, or on one person's behavior, or on crappy things that happened 30 years ago in the name of Scientology, well, it's a kind of person I don't really have a desire to deal with.
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#114 of 117 Old 06-09-2008, 05:46 AM
 
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Any publicity is good publicity
True I suppose it would have opened a lot to the idea of Scientology who may not have heard of it before.

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#115 of 117 Old 06-09-2008, 03:18 PM
 
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These are not new concepts to Scientology.

They are very standard and ancient Jewish mystical concepts, that our souls are constantly returning to new lives, and that children choose their parents. And that each people has its own truths.
I am familiar (well, for my level of study anyway) about the Jewish ideas of reincarnation (we were all present at Sinai, the mentions of it in the Zohar, etc) and of, of course, truths for Jews not meant to be truths for everyone. But I have been googling my brains out this morning to find some mention of children choosing their parents. The very closest I can even come to this concept is the idea of some that, like karma, what is done in one life can effect if and in which sort of way one might be reincarnated. But nothing of children choosing actual parents. Can you point me to anything online I can read about this? Being there is no dogma about the afterlife I know there are like 10,000 ideas (probably much more!) about how it all exactly works. But you mention it as being a very common and standard, so I assume there must be something I can find, right? Please help me with a link or a turn in the right direction.


Quote:


Am still not getting what Scientology believes . Can anyone clarify this? Is there a core belief system, beyond the self-help psychiatric-override thing going on?
I'm going to try to answer this one.


From Wiki (zenu)

Quote:
Scientologists believe that seventy-five million years ago, Xenu was the ruler of a Galactic Confederacy which consisted of 26 stars and 76 planets including Earth, which was then known as Teegeeack. The planets were overpopulated, each having an average population of 178 billion<snip>
Xenu was about to be deposed from power, so he devised a plot to eliminate the excess population from his dominions. With the assistance of psychiatrists, he summoned billions[1] of his citizens together under the pretense of income tax inspections, then paralyzed them and froze them in a mixture of alcohol and glycol to capture their souls. The kidnapped populace was loaded into spacecraft for transport to the site of extermination, the planet of Teegeeack (Earth). <snip> When they had reached Teegeeack/Earth, the paralyzed citizens were unloaded around the bases of volcanoes across the planet. Hydrogen bombs were then lowered into the volcanoes and detonated simultaneously.
Snipped some out so my quote wasn't too big.

So I think after the thetans were blasted out of the volcanos they were put through some kind of brainwashing by Xenu (teaching them about earthly things, religions, etc). I think they somehow lost their sense of personal identity here, some grouped into clusters,

then from http://www.scientology-lies.com/pres...-theology.html (I think the site is overall biased, but the information I copied from there seems exactly the same as I have read lots of other places, so I think it is pretty standard)

Quote:
Central to Scientology is a belief in an immortal soul, or "thetan," that passes from one body to the next through countless reincarnations spanning trillions of years. Collectively, thetans created the universe — all the stars and planets, every plant and animal. To function within their creation, thetans built bodies for themselves of wildly varying appearances, the human form being just one.

But each thetan is vulnerable to painful experiences that can diminish its powers and create emotional and physical problems in the individual it inhabits. The goal of Scientology is to purge these experiences from the thetan, making it again omnipotent and returning spiritual and bodily health to its host.

The painful experiences are called "engrams." Hubbard said some happen by accident — from ancient planetary wars, for example -- while others are intentionally inflicted by other thetans who have gone bad and want power. In Scientology, these engrams are called "implants."

According to Hubbard, the bad thetans through the eons have electronically implanted other thetans with information intended to confuse them and make them forget the powers they inherently possess -- kind of a brainwashing procedure.


"Implants," Hubbard said, "result in all varieties of illness, apathy, degradation, neurosis and insanity and are the principal cause of these in man."
And then comes in the information that has already been mentioned on the thread by the scientologists, auditing, engrams, all that.
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#116 of 117 Old 06-09-2008, 06:12 PM
 
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Bacon for you, orangebird, because that's the first time I've seen that explained in language one could understand without already being indoctrinated.
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#117 of 117 Old 06-09-2008, 08:29 PM
 
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Yes! You know how I love the bacon.

Thank you.
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