Why take bread & not wine? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-19-2008, 11:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
Sagesgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 3,262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was chalice bearer at church today (I am Episcopalian), and for the first time encountered two people who partook of the bread but refused the wine. They were in the same family--father and daughter--but the mother and sons all took both. I'm a bit flummoxed, having not encountered this before, so I thought I would ask here, since I know we have people from many different Christian backgrounds. (There are several Catholics who come to our church.) Does anyone know? Willing to take a guess?

Sabra: Mama to Bobbie (3/02), Linda (1/04), Esther (10/05), Marie (11/10), & Douglas (11/12)

Sagesgirl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-19-2008, 11:03 PM
 
Baby Makes 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Grape allergy? No idea.
Baby Makes 4 is offline  
Old 10-19-2008, 11:05 PM
 
notneb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 726
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've not taken the wine when I had a cold, so as not to get other parishioners sick.
notneb is offline  
Old 10-19-2008, 11:41 PM
 
Suzukimom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 261
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My mother will not dip bread in the grape juice if communion is done by intinction. She's afraid other people's fingers have touched the juice, therefore contaminating it.
Suzukimom is offline  
Old 10-20-2008, 12:01 AM
 
JoyFilled's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Recovering alcholics don't take the wine at my church.

And I attended a church a few times and the wine was so gross I couldn't take it.
JoyFilled is offline  
Old 10-20-2008, 04:35 AM
 
merpk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was going to say that, too. 12-Steppers manage to find religious ways around wine in every religion.

(Grape juice is a biggie.)
merpk is offline  
Old 10-20-2008, 04:48 AM
 
Sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In Poland, Catholics don't take wine - just the host. Only the priest drinks the wine. On special occassions, like communion or confirmation, they dip the host in the wine.

In the Catholic Church I went to, growing up in America, not everyone took the wine either. I'd say it was 50/50.

Personally, I never took the wine because I have a slight germ phobia and in all the Catholic Churches I went to, they served the wine from one goblet - to everyone. All they did was wipe with a napkin. To me, it seemed kind of ... well, not sanitary.

In a Baptist church I went to once, they served grape juice in individual cups - I partook of that. Individual cups - GREAT idea. One goblet - not happening (for me). But, again, the germ thing gets to me. I'm that person in the public bathroom who touches everything through paper towels.

First special delivery - April 2010 :
Sailor is offline  
Old 10-20-2008, 09:32 AM
 
Twinklefae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 4,992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I grew up Catholic, and wine wasn't offered to everyone every week, so maybe they were confused. (Dad went one way with daugther, Mom went another with son.) Wine was only offered on "special occasions" when I was growing up. Served all from one goblet, which I always liked.

Sarahknit.gifmarried to Kylehopmad.gif Mama to Orion  bouncy.gif08/07 and introducing Alice! babygirl.gif 02/11
DCP to 1 busy munchkin! and a CRST too!
 
Twinklefae is offline  
Old 10-20-2008, 10:20 AM
 
moonshoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
DH and I don't take the wine. We are Catholic. I guess because it was never offered when we were growing up, it just doesn't feel *right* to us somehow. I guess we're old fogies in a way.

Catherinepraying.gif traditional Catholic mama to bikenew.gifjammin.gifdiaper.gif wife to an amazing man.selectivevax.gifnocirc.giffamilybed1.gif

moonshoes is offline  
Old 10-20-2008, 10:38 AM
 
ktog29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I believe the Catholic Church teaches that the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus are all entirely present in both species.

Alcoholics are likely to refuse the wine/precious blood and those with Celiac are likely to skip the host/body.

HTH
ktog29 is offline  
Old 10-20-2008, 10:52 AM
 
Irishmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In the bat cave with heartmama
Posts: 45,457
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Catholic Celiacs can't have the wine either - the priest always puts a piece of host in it before "serving".
Irishmommy is offline  
Old 10-20-2008, 01:36 PM
 
xekomaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Last Frontier
Posts: 2,167
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
I'm Catholic - "germs" never seemed like good reason to refuse the Lord when you consider that Catholics believe that that IS ACTUALLY God, but most educators - schools, CCD, RCIA, etc, teach that it is fine to take just the Host. The wine/Blood is not even offered at some churches/large services, and I'd say about 1 in 5 receive at mass.

Funny to me the way that family divided, because my dad and I always receive the Blood and my mom and brother skip it.

XM,: mama to ds (5/08), dd (9/10) and ds (6/12) ! whale.gif :C.H.S & M.

xekomaya is offline  
Old 10-20-2008, 03:10 PM
 
tanyalynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TX, but anticipating one more move
Posts: 11,489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Some wines apparently use casein (a milk protein) as part of the filtering process, something like that. There is another relatively common allergen that's sometimes used in wine manufacturing, I forget which because it's not one of ours. People very sensitive to milk (or whatever that other one is--I almost think fish??) need to be careful which types of wine they consume (that assumes they know what's in the host and it's okay).
tanyalynn is offline  
Old 10-20-2008, 06:01 PM
 
mamabadger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,743
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In my church (Orthodox) it wouldn't be possible to take one and not the other. Small pieces of the bread are mixed together with the wine in the chalice, and fed to the communicant on a little spoon.
mamabadger is offline  
Old 10-20-2008, 11:09 PM
 
miss_sonja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,855
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishmommy View Post
Catholic Celiacs can't have the wine either - the priest always puts a piece of host in it before "serving".
At our church, the priest puts that bit into only the priest goblet, so that celiacs can partake of the wine as well. I think it's a really thoughtful thing to do.

Mom to DD1 (11/1999),  DD2 (07/2003), and DS (11/2012), all born at home and cloth diapered. 

miss_sonja is offline  
Old 10-20-2008, 11:18 PM
 
Irishmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In the bat cave with heartmama
Posts: 45,457
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ours puts it in both. But the celiac in my family (dd) "doesn't believe" any more, so doesn't go up.
Irishmommy is offline  
Old 10-21-2008, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
Sagesgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 3,262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This has been really fascinating. All I knew about Catholic Communion before this was that you can't take it unless you are in good standing with the church.

We have bread & wine communion every single Sunday; we call our service after the Eucharist, in fact. There's not a different goblet for the priest; we all drink from the same one. It's a rather democratic thing.

As for the germ issue...Honestly, you're a lot more likely to catch something from the Peace beforehand (wait, do Catholics have that?) than from the communal cup.

Sabra: Mama to Bobbie (3/02), Linda (1/04), Esther (10/05), Marie (11/10), & Douglas (11/12)

Sagesgirl is offline  
Old 10-21-2008, 06:14 PM
 
Irishmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In the bat cave with heartmama
Posts: 45,457
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagesgirl View Post
As for the germ issue...Honestly, you're a lot more likely to catch something from the Peace beforehand (wait, do Catholics have that?) than from the communal cup.
Yup. And both my kids refuse to shake hands with anyone. I wish I could refuse!
Irishmommy is offline  
Old 10-21-2008, 06:56 PM
 
the_lissa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I grew up Catholic and in my 20+ years of attending mass, I have never seen the wine offered to the congregation.

Jam 7, Peanut Butter 5, and Bread 2.

the_lissa is offline  
Old 10-21-2008, 07:31 PM
 
lawschoolmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 254
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A close family member is a recovering alcoholic, and never takes the wine.

Wife to DH 6/05 partners.gif and mommy to DD1, born 10/07 dust.gif and DD2, born June 2010 energy.gif, and one cat.gif! We bftoddler.gif, familybed2.gif, and homeschool.gif

lawschoolmama is offline  
Old 10-22-2008, 11:22 AM
 
spero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: the back of beyond
Posts: 9,488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm a Eucharistic Minister and would just like to clarify that, in the Roman Catholic Church, we do not consider it wine when it is consumed. It has been consecrated through God's mercy and our faith to become the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ. For most believers, this brings a whole other dimension to this cup. I know many recovering alcoholics who receive from the cup without hesitation, and almost all the young children (of Eucharist-receiving age) in my church partake as well - even though some of their parents don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
All they did was wipe with a napkin. To me, it seemed kind of ... well, not sanitary.
It's actually called a Purificator, and has some spiritual significance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xekomaya View Post
I'm Catholic - "germs" never seemed like good reason to refuse the Lord when you consider that Catholics believe that that IS ACTUALLY God,
:

Personally, I think that the communal sharing of one cup is a beautiful leap of spiritual faith. If one believes that it is indeed the Blood of Christ, how could one possibly think that any harm could come to them through that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ktog29 View Post
I believe the Catholic Church teaches that the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus are all entirely present in both species.
That is true. However, consumption of both species is encouraged.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishmommy View Post
Catholic Celiacs can't have the wine either - the priest always puts a piece of host in it before "serving".
Quote:
Originally Posted by miss_sonja View Post
At our church, the priest puts that bit into only the priest goblet,
Yes, at our parish only the priest and deacon drink from the cup that contains the bit of host. There are two other goblets for the rest of the congregation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the_lissa View Post
I grew up Catholic and in my 20+ years of attending mass, I have never seen the wine offered to the congregation.
Wow, seriously?!

I'm terribly disappointed if there's no more Precious Blood by the time I reach the cup.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
spero is offline  
Old 10-22-2008, 11:33 AM
 
StacyL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Banned - period.
Posts: 3,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_lissa View Post
I grew up Catholic and in my 20+ years of attending mass, I have never seen the wine offered to the congregation.
The consumption of the Precious Blood by the faithful in Holy Communion is not a traditional practice in the Roman Catholic Church.

In the Traditional Latin Mass (and that was the form of ALL Masses prior to the creation of the Novus Ordo Mass at Vatican II) Holy Communion is only consumed by the faithful under one species in the Sacred Host. The Precious Blood is only consumed by the priest.

The practice of the faithful consuming the Precious Blood started after Vatican II, and is never practiced in a Traditional Roman Catholic Mass.

It is also worth noting that there were no such thing as Eucharistic ministers/ministeresses prior to Vatican II - only the priest could distribute Holy Communion.
StacyL is offline  
Old 10-22-2008, 11:46 AM
 
the_lissa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by spero View Post


Wow, seriously?!

I'm terribly disappointed if there's no more Precious Blood by the time I reach the cup.
Weird, eh? I am going to ask my grandma about it next time I visit.

Jam 7, Peanut Butter 5, and Bread 2.

the_lissa is offline  
Old 10-22-2008, 03:06 PM
 
spero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: the back of beyond
Posts: 9,488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by StacyL View Post

The practice of the faithful consuming the Precious Blood started after Vatican II,

It is also worth noting that there were no such thing as Eucharistic ministers/ministeresses prior to Vatican II - only the priest could distribute Holy Communion.
Thank all that is good and holy for Vatican II!

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
spero is offline  
Old 10-22-2008, 07:47 PM
 
the_lissa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Jam 7, Peanut Butter 5, and Bread 2.

the_lissa is offline  
Old 10-23-2008, 01:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
Sagesgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 3,262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Transubstantiation is not an actual doctrine of the Episcopal/Anglican church. There was no agreement on it in the early days, and so it (like much else) has been left up to individual interpretation. I do not believe in a literal transformation, but I do think the metaphor is an incredibly important and holy one.

I was wondering if, perhaps, they simply did not want to take the wine from me since I am a woman. (The other chalice bearer at the service was a man, and he gave to the mother; the sons took directly from the priest, as they helped a bit with that part of the liturgy since we have no acolytes at that service.) He & I were sort of switching off every couple of people. I honestly don't think there's a need for two chalice bearers at that service, since we don't have two priests handing out the host, but ah well.

Sabra: Mama to Bobbie (3/02), Linda (1/04), Esther (10/05), Marie (11/10), & Douglas (11/12)

Sagesgirl is offline  
Old 10-24-2008, 02:42 AM
 
Sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by StacyL View Post
The practice of the faithful consuming the Precious Blood started after Vatican II, and is never practiced in a Traditional Roman Catholic Mass.

It is also worth noting that there were no such thing as Eucharistic ministers/ministeresses prior to Vatican II - only the priest could distribute Holy Communion.
Yes, and to add to this, in many countries in Europe, it is still ONLY the priest that gives the host. An altar boy usually stands with him, with a golden tray. The golden tray is held underneath the host as the priest hands it to a person (almost always right on the tongue, as opposed to in the hand).

In Poland, especially, it's unheard of for "civilians" to handle the host.

And wine is never given, but I mentioned that before I think.

Re: the germ issue - I should probably mention that I'm not a believer, and never really was. Though, I grew up in a traditional Roman Catholic family - for 18 years of my life. So, probably, if I believed, germs would never have been an issue for me.

First special delivery - April 2010 :
Sailor is offline  
Old 10-24-2008, 03:27 AM
Banned
 
CharlieBrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: garden variety
Posts: 4,983
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by spero View Post
Thank all that is good and holy for Vatican II!

CharlieBrown is offline  
Old 10-24-2008, 04:12 AM
 
JTA Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm Greek Orthodox & Dh is Catholic. We attend each others services every other week (Catholic, then Orthodox, etc).

Dh was told by my priest that during our mass, dh could partake of the body but not the blood (wine). Something about the blessing being different between the two. When I go to dh's church, I take the wafer but do not drink the wine.

As for not drinking the wine, I was told not to partake if I was bleeding anywhere, but especially during that time of the month. Apparently it's bad to imbibe the blood of Christ just to bleed it out. Maybe the Catholic Church is similar in this? Maybe he or his daughter were bleeding?

Ami

Wife to dh, Mommy to my heavenly angel, J (06), and my earthly angels, S (07) and E (10)

JTA Mom is offline  
Old 10-24-2008, 10:14 AM
 
spero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: the back of beyond
Posts: 9,488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
The golden tray is held underneath the host as the priest hands it to a person (almost always right on the tongue, as opposed to in the hand).
That's called a paten.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
spero is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off