Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) "slow and steady" support thread - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 93 Old 02-11-2009, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'd like to start a thread to provide support and encouragement for those of us who are following the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (for healing the gut and rebalancing the intestinal flora), and who are going slowly and carefully, following the recommendations in Breaking the Vicious Cycle and on the BTVC web site. The SCD can be difficult to follow in the beginning, and many people end up abandoning the gradual introduction of new foods and just skipping straight to the full "legal list." Sometimes they'll go even further, and use packaged foods or supplements that aren't permitted on the diet, because they question the rationale for excluding them. The trouble with this approach is that, if you only have minimal or partial success, you're likely to end up wondering: "is the diet not working, or is it because I didn't really do it properly?" That's what happened to me when I first tried doing the SCD several years ago. Now I'm back for a second attempt (along with my children this time), and I'm being extra-careful and following all the advice from the old-timers that I'd previously ignored. And this time, I really am having better results.

So anyway, here's the thread. Anyone who's doing the "slow and steady" SCD (or is interested in trying it), feel free to jump in with your stories, questions, tips, etc. One request, though: if you'd like to post a recipe or meal idea, please make sure it's suitable for the early weeks of the diet; no advanced foods such as nut flour, dried fruits, beans, and raw fruit or vegetable salads. Most of us are in the early stages, and it would be good to have a place where we aren't constantly being reminded of all the stuff we can't yet eat. (For those who have made it to the point where they can have those foods , there are many other places, on MDC and elsewhere, where you can share your creations.)

And now, back to finding a storage space for all these and . The cashiers must think I have a troupe of monkeys. Well, some days, I guess that's not too far from the truth.
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#2 of 93 Old 02-11-2009, 12:53 PM
 
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I'm almost a year into the diet and so I'm probably not what you're looking for. But I wanted to say that I wish there had been something like this around when I first started. I remember how strange I felt, when I first gave up grains and starchy foods. It was like I was in withdrawal, and I felt terrible. I actually quit twice, before I finally made the commitment.

Anyway, good luck and hang in there. It's tough to make the change, but it gets easier pretty quickly.

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#3 of 93 Old 02-11-2009, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Llyra and other advanced SCDers, please feel free to join in; it would be great to have your words of wisdom. My only concern was that I'd like to avoid the posting of advanced recipes in this thread. As they say at Pecanbread, many newcomers fall into the trap of thinking that the SCD is "the nut diet." (Gee, d'you think maybe the name of their site has something to do with it?! )

Regarding withdrawal: Last time around, I sped through the early stages, then stayed on the "full diet" for a few months. I never really experienced any major shifts in symptoms (for better or worse), and felt a little healthier overall, but not enough to justify staying on it. The hardest part was that I was hungry all the time. I had to snack constantly all day, and never felt satisfied.

This time, during the intro and beginning of stage 1, I had clear withdrawal/die-off symptoms... headaches and joint aches, constant hunger, fatigue, stool changes. It was pretty bad for the first couple of weeks, then started to ease off. Now I'm about a month in, and I have a normal appetite and a lot more energy than before. I don't feel bored or deprived, as everything we eat is tasty and nutritious, and we can still have some of our favorite foods.

In hindsight, I think the starter yogurt I was using a few years ago might have had bifidus in it. If so, that could have been the cause of my failure to respond. People often talk as if the "no bifidus" rule was something that Elaine Gottschall just pulled out of her hat... but I've been reading Dr. Haas's book, The Management of Celiac Disease, and it does talk about this issue ("an overgrowth of bacteria belonging normally to the nursling period"). In fact, in the early 20th century, celiac disease was called "intestinal infantilism," because it was characterized by an excess of bifidobacteria, which are only supposed to predominate in the gut of infants who are exclusively or mainly breastfed.

Interesting stuff!
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#4 of 93 Old 02-11-2009, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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BTW, Dr. Haas's book contains several case studies of successful responses to the original diet, as it was used to help children with severe malnutrition due to bowel disease. He provides a detailed description of their daily intake, and for the first few months, these children (toddlers and preschoolers) were typically eating 14-16 bananas each day.

I remember reading somewhere that Elaine G. didn't recommend eating more than two bananas a day, but I'm guessing that's for people who can tolerate a wide range of foods. If you're in the early stages, and have picky or sensitive children, it seems as if it won't hurt to give them several bananas, if that's all they'll eat by way of carbohydrates.


In case anyone is interested, here's our current menu. Still mostly intro & stage 1 foods, with a few additional vegetables.

Last night's dinner: sliced turkey, cheese, avocado, bananas, diluted apple cider/carrot juice blend

Breakfast: scrambled eggs, diluted apple cider, bananas, yogurt with honey, and sliced cheddar (b/c children ate all the eggs and yogurt, and were still hungry )

Lunch will be: meatballs, well-steamed carrots, pureed asparagus, diluted grape juice, and "magical green pudding" made from avocado blended with honey & yogurt

Dinner will be: braised lamb shoulder chops, well-steamed artichokes, butternut squash puff, and baked peeled apples with butter, honey, and a tiny bit of vanilla

My 3 and 5 year olds turn up their noses at all green vegetables, even guacamole. This will be my first time making the avocado pudding. I think it might go over okay, since it doesn't really have a bitter taste.

Hope you all have a great day.
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#5 of 93 Old 02-11-2009, 05:42 PM
 
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hey there! We are no longer on the diet, but I have to say that I did feel that Dr. Haas' book was a great asset in embarking on this journey. It did explain quite a bit.

We have 3 people in my house that actually have a celiac diagnosis, one who was never tested but cannot tolerate gluten at all and another who was never challenged.

I'm curious, and pardon me if I'm not remembering correctly, you seem to be very well versed in homeopathic medicine. Are you using it at all in your healing process?

Your menu looks lovely by the way!
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#6 of 93 Old 02-11-2009, 07:33 PM
 
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Subbing but not quite joining yet as I'm on a TED for 7 week old son who is having issues with what I eat. Still trying to get a baseline for the diet. I dont know what to do and its starting to compromise my breastmilk. But as soon as I do and figure out what he's intolerant to, then I'm going to start on this as I have some leaky gut/intestinal issues. I have a lot of problems and want to get better before my next pregnancy.

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#7 of 93 Old 02-12-2009, 01:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi, Panserbjorne!

I've been interested in homeopathy for years, but really buckled down to study it seriously after DD2 was born with serious congenital problems (in spite of my doing "all the right things" prenatally). Her holistic pediatrician is trained in homeopathy, and often suggests remedies for acutes. I've been self-prescribing for everyone else, which I know isn't recommended, but I stick to low potencies and it seems to work out okay. My biggest successes have been with DS's croup and my own menstrual problems. Food intolerances and behavioral issues seem to be much harder to deal with.

I haven't really been following the homeopathic threads, but I seem to remember that there was some discussion of the bowel nosodes (remedies made from abnormal gut flora). That's something I'd like to look into more, especially for DD1 who has had digestive problems since birth. She's already had noticeable improvement after just a couple of weeks on the SCD, but I think the right remedy would be a very helpful adjunct to the diet.


Jewellz, your children are very close in age to mine. (We're expecting #4 in a few months.) I'll say a prayer for you and your little guy. I hope you can figure out what's bothering him soon.
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#8 of 93 Old 02-12-2009, 05:53 AM
 
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well, this is exactly us too! Thanks for starting this. We are on about Week 7 by now. Taking it very slowly.

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Originally Posted by hummingmom View Post
And now, back to finding a storage space for all these and . The cashiers must think I have a troupe of monkeys. Well, some days, I guess that's not too far from the truth.
This is so funny to me. I started going to the grocery store late, late at night, so I don't have to take my kids and tell them we can't buy pineapples or frozen blueberries or whatever (it's not like they are even begging for candy in the checkout! it's just easier this way). Anyway, there is this same woman who has been at my favorite store to get organic bananas, and I buy literally 8 or 9 bunches of bananas at a time. She first asked me, what I was doing with all those bananas. I just said, My kids eat a lot of bananas.
Now she knows me when I come in the door! It's kind of funny but I literally plan everything around the various ripening stages of the bananas. I have to plan ahead, so we aren't left in the cold without any at the right stage! So I always have bananas sitting around everywhere at various stages of ripeness! I'm so glad you understand!


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BTW, Dr. Haas's book contains several case studies of successful responses to the original diet, as it was used to help children with severe malnutrition due to bowel disease. He provides a detailed description of their daily intake, and for the first few months, these children (toddlers and preschoolers) were typically eating 14-16 bananas each day.
I feel better now. My kids are eating a lot of bananas. Not quite that many though! I was worried, but now I am not! I have always wanted to get that book. I should look for it online. Isn't it out of print?

We are still very early in the diet, and are improving steadily, but we still have days of setbacks with looser mushier stools again. But overall, we've had more days of normal stools than not, and only a few tummyaches that didn't last long. Mostly we eat meat, eggs, coconut oil, olive oil, and BANANAS. And every variation thereof. We also do several well-cooked, peeled vegetables and cooked peeled apples, Golden Delicious only. It's hit or miss getting my youngest one to eat the vegs, but actually he seems to do best on just the protein, fat, and bananas. And they have both finally gained weight. It seems like when I add in more fiber, though, even the well cooked peeled vegs, he has looser stool again. I think we just need to go very slowly. We haven't tried any dairy yet, or probiotics, and I feel like that should be our next step. I'm not sure whether to try yogurt (dairy or possibly coconut), or a probiotic supplement, or enzymes.

I have some questions to bring up, but it's late, but I'll be back.
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#9 of 93 Old 02-12-2009, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It's kind of funny but I literally plan everything around the various ripening stages of the bananas. I have to plan ahead, so we aren't left in the cold without any at the right stage!
LOL... our current inventory is about 25 lb. of bananas, at 3 different stages of ripeness. That should see us through the weekend. I should probably stick some of the rock-hard green Costco ones in a paper bag, to speed up the ripening a bit. Tending the banana crop does take a surprising amount of effort. (I can't complain, though... it's much easier than applesauce. The children can eat that stuff faster than I can make it!) BTW, if you get to the store when the grocer is marking down the turning-brown bananas, you can get some really good deals. Our local Asian market had them for 19c/lb, which is very inexpensive for our area.


The Dr. Haas book was just republished a few months ago, I think, by some dedicated SCDers. It's available from Digestive Wellness, Lucy's Kitchen Shop, and a few other places.


For those who can have eggs: I just made the nut-free, dairy-free souffle bread (found under Stage 1 recipes here), and it was a big hit. The children ate the whole batch for lunch. I used half a ripe avocado, as suggested. Fortunately it didn't turn out green, more of a golden yellow. (They were highly suspicious of last night's green pudding, though they did end up eating it. It was delicious.) Since I really dislike the taste/smell of browned eggs, I used the cookie sheet method, spread the batter thinly, and baked it for much less time than the recipe said: 10 minutes on one side, then 5 minutes on the other, just enough so that the eggs were cooked through. We called it "sponge bread." It actually looked a lot like Sponge Bob.

The sponge bob... I mean sponge bread... held up well when used in sandwiches with a moist filling (we used apple butter and farmer's cheese; chicken salad would also work), but it was a bit on the greasy side when eaten with the hands. DD1 insisted on using a fork. I suspect this is due to the oil in the avocado. Other vegetables might produce a tidier, if less tasty, result.
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#10 of 93 Old 02-12-2009, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, we're just coming out of a major temper explosion here. Based on past experience, I think we can reasonably conclude that too many eggs make DD1's behavior worse. It's not that surprising, esp. as I often feel kind of grumpy after eating them myself. This also supports my suspicion that she could be helped by a homeopathic remedy from the Ferrum series, probably Ferrum Metallicum ( = iron), which has "worse from eggs" among the notable symptoms. She has a lot of the other characteristics, and I've actually tried Ferrum remedies in the past, but probably didn't stick with the idea long enough.

I find this extremely interesting, in that I recently read an Australian study in which prenatal iron supplements were associated with double the risk of behavior problems in preschool children. (This was a controlled study; they don't routinely recommend prenatal iron in Australia.) Of course, excess iron also contributes to gut dysbiosis, and iron is one of the forbidden supplements on the SCD. DD1 is the only one of our children with clear digestive and behavioral issues, and she's also had the most exposure to supplemental iron. I took iron-fortified prenatals starting a few months before her conception, and kept taking them all the time I was breastfeeding. Then I had a change of attitude, and didn't take any iron with my next two pregnancies. I still had a high-normal hemoglobin and hematocrit on every blood test, so the supplements were clearly unnecessary in my case.

As for why eggs might aggravate an iron-related problem, more so than other iron-rich foods (like red meat) ... I have no idea. Maybe it's something to do with whatever causes that nasty smell when they're browned.
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#11 of 93 Old 02-12-2009, 08:59 PM
 
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maybe it's the sulphur and not the iron?
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#12 of 93 Old 02-12-2009, 10:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The green ring that forms in overcooked hard-boiled eggs is ferrous sulfide, according to this article. So, I'm guessing the problems (and the smell) are related to the combination of iron and sulphur, esp. when the eggs are cooked too long. I'll have to try raw eggs and see what happens. If those go over okay, I'll try separating the eggs and using just the whites for baking. The yolks can go in smoothies, or can be used to thicken a sauce.

Speaking of raw eggs, when I was making the sponge bread, I was reminded of an all-raw avocado mousse that I used to make. IIRC, you separate an egg, then blend an avocado with the egg yolk and a little raw honey. Then you beat the egg white and fold it into the avocado mixture. Yum.
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#13 of 93 Old 02-12-2009, 11:53 PM
 
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I'm definitely curious to see what you come up with! And yes, we are HUGE fans of raw eggs over here. My kiddos ADORE raw pudding and milkshakes. We use a similar recipe to your as well.
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#14 of 93 Old 02-13-2009, 05:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hummingmom View Post
For those who can have eggs: I just made the nut-free, dairy-free souffle bread (found under Stage 1
I made this last week too. It was a LOT of work with the separating the eggs out, whipping the whites, etc, but it was worth it. I used leftover broccoli for my 1/3 cup of mashed vegs. It was not greasy, and they kids ate it with their hands. Actually, my older child opened it up like a pita and stuffed some sausage inside. (just crumbled ground pork with my own salt pepper and sage).

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I'm definitely curious to see what you come up with! And yes, we are HUGE fans of raw eggs over here. My kiddos ADORE raw pudding and milkshakes. We use a similar recipe to your as well.
We have been having daily either smoothies (banana, raw egg, CO, ice and water) or banana "pudding" which is the exact same thing just without the ice and water. We also put the pudding in the freezer for a short while and had an ice cream of sorts.

I introduced nut butter this week, very slowly, just one pancake the first day, two the next day, then my older child really, really wanted to make something, so I let him pick something from the pecanbread site and he chose the nut butter brownies, which I have had to ration today, because I want to go slow with the nuts. I can't tell if they are okay or not. Both kids have had stools this week that weren't totally normal, but they aren't falling apart anymore, they are just like softer and in several pieces instead of one formed stool, like they were having. But, at the same time, this has happened just from having more cooked vegs, so I don't know what it is.

One question about coconut oil: I had switched from the gold label Tropical Traditions to the regular organic expeller pressed. Then I started using the Gold Label again. Do you think the Gold Label could actually have stronger properties, and so it causes more loose stool, maybe die-off? I guess the only way to know is to switch back.

I want to try a probiotic again. I am thinking about a supp (custom probiotics maybe?) or coconut yogurt. I have mixed feelings about the probiotics, and the SCD recommendation for just acidophilus. The GAPS suggested probiotic has multiple strains.
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#15 of 93 Old 02-13-2009, 05:42 AM
 
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One thing to add about myself: Since adding in the nuts, it has kicked back in my cravings for sweet stuff, and I am eating way more bananas, which isn't how I feel the best. I had really kicked the whole craving sweet after the first few weeks, getting enough protein, fat, and drinking broth.
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#16 of 93 Old 02-13-2009, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We've also tried a few nut butter baked goods, and they really increased the cravings for me, too. Same thing with the stool changes. I guess the answer is to introduce them more slowly, but it's hard when it all tastes so good.

DD1 got some Valentine's treats at one of her classes, but she was okay about trading them for a My Little Pony thingamajig. I've also promised to make some candy for tomorrow: honey meringues, jell-o shapes using Welch's red grape juice, and maybe honey toffee if I'm feeling ambitious. My big hope is that we'll be able to have some advanced treats by Easter. It's a big holiday for us, and I timed the diet on purpose so that we'd be at the 3-month mark by then.

Speaking of Easter, I wish I could find a legal ham! Last time we were on the diet, I bought a salt-cured country ham, but the site I got it from seems to be out of business. Oh well, it probably had nitrates anyway. I guess I'll have to stick with occasional treats of prosciutto and Organic Prairie bacon. (Some people on Pecanbread and other lists have checked with OP, and they've confirmed that the bacon is okay. Only organic honey is used as a sweetener, and there are no other questionable ingredients. The Organic Prairie cold cuts are to be avoided, though; they may contain corn starch as a "processing aid," to stop the slices from sticking together. Just goes to show, you can't trust the label to disclose everything.)

For probiotics, the SCDophilus from GIProHealth is legal, and there might be some others as well. Personally, I would follow the advice to stay away from bifidus; there are just too many unknowns. This book about bifidobacteria confirms the earlier reports that it can be involved in overgrowth, and apparently it can even be invasive in immunocompromised people. As far as I've been able to find, that's never happened with L. acidophilus or the other recommended organisms (L. bulgaricus, S. thermophilus). I'd love to read the whole bifidus book, but it's $500... ouch. If someone has access to a medical library that has a copy, maybe they can take a look for us.
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#17 of 93 Old 02-13-2009, 07:39 PM
 
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I'm so glad to be having this dialogue with you and, hopefully have PB share her comments and experience too. That would be interesting to look through that book. We do have a medical school close by, I should see if it's there and if I can go by sometime and thumb through it.

I'm conflicted about the probiotics because they ultimately caused (or contributed to irritation that was causing) blood and mucus in the stool of my 4 yo. This was before we started SCD though, and they were not SCD legal probs. BUT, I went back and looked in my notes from when we were on the diet years ago with my older child, and, I couldn't believe I hadn't remembered this, but when we started the completely plain L acidophilus from Custom Probiotics, he ALSO had blood in the stool. I wrote that it seemed to help, but at the same time, it caused the blood. That was like 6 years ago, so I didn't remember that. I am hesitant to try dairy with them.
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#18 of 93 Old 02-13-2009, 07:46 PM
 
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Anytime you feel like posting what you ate in a day, I'd love to have more ideas for this early stage. My husband is having a hard time getting enough to eat and is not liking eating teh same things all the time. Bssically I think he can suck it up and deal because his kids need this and he can stop at a restaurant on his way home from work if he wants to. He totally needs the diet too, has gut issues and is one of those people that is constitutionally "grumpy". But, I feel like if I can make things a little more appealing it will make it easier for him. And I'd prefer he didn't bring other food home and eat it in front of the kids. Once we get to the full diet, he'll be fine. We did it for three years before and he was fine. He ate only SCD at home, but would eat out for lunch, etc.

Here's what we've eaten so far today:
B: runny eggs, bananas

Snack (at our Valentine's party): Almond butter brownies (with half the amount of honey called for)

Lunch: chicken *salad* made with boiled chicken, mashed butternut squash, coconut oil, a few drops of honey and a pinch of salt (it doesn't sound good but I had no mayo ready so I just used what was available, and it was actually pretty good)

Snack: smoothie with bananas, eggs, CO, water and ice

For dinner I am fixing: salmon, mashed cauliflower with broth, green beans

And there have been several bananas in between too.
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#19 of 93 Old 02-13-2009, 07:49 PM
 
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Do you give the kids a vitamin? I stopped when we began SCD, and I am wondering if they need it. I'd like to get a juicer and juice some fresh nutrient-dense veggies, but they are so expensive. I take that back, I have a Juiceman Jr in the way back corner of my kitchen cupboard, which does remove the pulp. I want a better juicer like an Omega or Champion. I wonder if we're far enough along for fresh juices like that.
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#20 of 93 Old 02-14-2009, 01:10 AM
 
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moving to nutrition and good eating

"Have faith in yourself and in the direction you have chosen." Ralph Marston

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#21 of 93 Old 02-14-2009, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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momofmine, sounds like we might have the same husband, LOL.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that that Custom Probiotics are extremely strong.... I wonder if it was maybe your previous experience was just too much at once? Anyway, I really hope you can work around to having the yogurt; it's been great for us on so many levels. DS does have a bit of a dairy sensitivity (used to cause reflux as a baby, now he just gets congested if he has too much), but he's a giant fast-growing kid who needs all the nutrition he can get. We've tried various calcium supplements in the past, but I can't find an SCD legal one that looks child-friendly and half decent. And the dairy has other stuff, like B vitamins, that are hard to get at this stage of the diet.

Speaking of supplements... I don't like taking more than the RDA of synthetic vitamins, so we're each taking about 1/8 of a tablet of the Freeda SCD B-complex. It's kind of a hassle splitting the pills, but at least they're easy for the children to swallow. And even at that dose, it's enough to turn our pee bright yellow.
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#22 of 93 Old 02-14-2009, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Forgot to add... We have an Omega juicer (the 8001), but it's been in storage for a few years, and now I can't find the juicing screen. : So, as it happens, I'm planning to dig around in the garage this weekend and look for DH's old Juiceman. I know that the high speed oxidizes the juice, but if you're going to drink it right away, it should still be very nutritious. At this stage of the diet, any juicer is better than none, IMO.

In general, the Omega is better for greens like wheatgrass and kale, but the Juiceman is great for soft, juicy fruits like pineapple and grapes. Those tend to "flood" the Omega (my model, anyway), unless you alternate them with something hard like apples.

Both juicers are fine for carrots and celery. Even my ancient little Braun juicer did a good job with those.
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#23 of 93 Old 02-14-2009, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Last night's dinner was a big hit. I made clam chowder, using small 3"-ish rutabagas instead of potatoes. (I've read that the big rutabagas are more indigestible, for some reason.) Here's the recipe I came up with:

3 tbsp. SCD legal bacon fat
1 onion, peeled and roughly chopped
3 small rutabagas, peeled, quartered, and sliced
3 medium carrots, peeled and sliced
2 stalks celery, strings removed, sliced

Saute vegetables in bacon fat over medium-low heat until onions and rutabaga are translucent. Add:

* Juice from 4 x 6.5 oz cans additive-free clams or other seafood (I used 2 cans Bar Harbor clams & 2 cans TJ's mussels), strained to remove sediment
* Homemade salt-free chicken stock as needed, so vegetables are covered
* 1/4 tsp thyme
* 2 bay leaves
* dash of cayenne

Simmer until the vegetables are tender, around 20 minutes. Puree soup with a blender. Reheat gently, adding:

* Reserved canned clams or other seafood
* 1 cup SCD French cream

If you're dairy-free, I think it would be fine without the cream. It's plenty thick on its own, but you could enrich it with an egg yolk or two.

My 16 month old was a huge fan of the chowder. She quickly abandoned the spoon, and was sticking her whole fist in and sucking it off her fingers. As soon as she'd eaten it all (which was surprisingly fast), she would bellow for another bowl. She also took her first steps last night at bedtime. She'd been right on the verge of walking for months, but didn't seem to have the nerve. Is it just a coincidence... or was it the clams?
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#24 of 93 Old 02-14-2009, 05:14 PM
 
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Wow! I didn't know rutabagas were SCD-legal. That's good to know. What about turnips? I never checked; I was just working on the assumption that they were like potatoes, and thus disallowed.

I would be so psyched if I had a potato-substitute for stews.

Oh, well. I looked it up-- rutabagas allowed, but turnips are a no-go.

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#25 of 93 Old 02-14-2009, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Rutabagas are okay, but they're only supposed to be used in moderation because they're quite fibrous. Otherwise, I would have used more rutabagas and skipped the carrots.

Turnips and parsnips were originally allowed, but some people didn't do well with them, so now they're considered an "experimental" food... not recommended in the early stages, but okay to try once substantial healing has taken place. (This is going from memory, as I can't find my copy of BTVC. If I'm getting this wrong, feel free to correct me.) Parsnips are quite high in carbs & fiber relative to the other permitted root vegetables, so it makes sense that they could be problematic. Turnips are comparable to carrots and rutabaga in their carb count, though, so I'm not sure what the trouble with them is. In any case, I'm guessing that big turnips would cause more problems than little ones.

BTW, you can also use cauliflower in the chowder, instead of rutabaga. Low-carb web sites have a lot of recipes that use cauliflower, including "cauliflower mashed potatoes," which are very tasty. Again, though, don't go overboard. Too much indigestible fiber seems to be problematic for many of us.
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#26 of 93 Old 02-15-2009, 12:31 PM
 
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momofmine, sounds like we might have the same husband, LOL.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that that Custom Probiotics are extremely strong.... I wonder if it was maybe your previous experience was just too much at once?


so we're each taking about 1/8 of a tablet of the Freeda SCD B-complex. It's kind of a hassle splitting the pills, but at least they're easy for the children to swallow.

Maybe we can get them together!

I don't really remember now about the CP probiotics, but I am thinking that we did go slow, but I don't really remember what the ultimate outcome was. So, are you just doing yogurt and no probiotic supp? Your experience with dairy sounds like ours, which is why I have been avoiding it. I also have this hang-up because last year (while not on SCD) I finally decided to let my kids try drinking raw milk (they had never had milk before, only cheese and yogurt) and within a couple of months, they both got strep for the first time. This is just my own baggage, but I had strep repeatedly as a child, then found out I was allergic to dairy, and after removing dairy, never got strep again.

(SIDE NOTE TO PB IF YOU'RE STILL HERE: HEY! Is THAT what you are talking about with miasms?? There is a light bulb going off for me right now.)

I've been considering trying dairy again, but I also just wonder about dairy in general, aside from my own experience. As a food, were we meant to drink other animal milk? I don't know, I'm still trying to figure out what I think about that.

How old are your kids that are swallowing the 1/8 pill? I've never tried it with mine. I do think I need a B supp.

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Originally Posted by hummingmom View Post
Both juicers are fine for carrots and celery. Even my ancient little Braun juicer did a good job with those.

That's good to know about the juicer. I may drag it out and try it. Since we aren't doing anything raw yet, I can still put raw vegs and fruits in the juicer and drink that? Because we aren't getting the fiber? Is that correct?

Thanks so much for the chowder recipe, sounds awesome. I was holding off on celery and onions, because of the fiber. We've had onions just a handful of times in these two months. Maybe we can try celery now.

Regarding cauliflower, I use that all the time. I make the mashed cauliflower "potatoes" practically every other night. Since we were avoiding dairy, I use chix broth instead of butter. It's a little runnier, but still very yummy. And thanks for the egg thickening tip. I have used an egg in the cauliflower potatoes to thicken it, and it was very yummy.

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* Juice from 4 x 6.5 oz cans additive-free clams or other seafood (I used 2 cans Bar Harbor clams & 2 cans TJ's mussels), strained to remove sediment
Are you finding additive-free canned seafood at Trader Joe's? I was wondering about crabmeat. The only I have been able to find is the Phillip's in cans, which is very expensive, but it had sodium acid pyrophosphate (to prevent the formation of struvite crystals). Same thing with shrimp, can't find the frozen shrimp without additives either.

And, definitely YES to that on the fiber. I have found that too much fiber is what causes problems for them again too, more mushy, floating, looser stools. But then I have to balance it out by getting enough fat into them, so that they go. It's a fine line here right now. My kids definitely don't get constipated, just the fat seems important to keep things moving, not the fiber, as most people think.
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#27 of 93 Old 02-18-2009, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Sorry to have been away from the thread so long. We've had a lot going on... nasty weather, multiple power outages, my car broke down, and at one point we even ran out of ripe bananas. (The horror!!!)

The strep/dairy connection is interesting. At 10 months, DD1 got a rash that the ped diagnosed as "textbook scarlet fever." This is quite rare in babies, and I've always suspected that it was related to my introducing raw kefir a few days earlier. At the time, we didn't have access to a homeopath or other alternative practitioner that we trusted, so we ended up giving her the antibiotics. I was very conflicted about it, as I knew it was a bad idea to suppress a rash (and she didn't even seem very sick, just bright red), but but my grandfather had had serious health problems from rheumatic heart disease, so we weren't comfortable just waiting it out.

My 3-year-old can swallow the cut-up vitamins without any problems. If he couldn't, I'd do my usual trick: crush them and mix them with a little honey or homemade jam. It works for pretty much everything.

Regarding seafood, we get canned fish and mussels at Trader Joe's, clams and smoked oysters by the case from Amazon, and frozen fish and scallops from a few different places. We're not especially fond of crab or shrimp, so I haven't looked for those since we've been on the diet. I do recall that shrimp virtually always has sulfites, and often (in the case of Chinese farmed shrimp) has unapproved drug residues. Sulfites are SCD legal, but I tend to get headaches from them, so shrimp is pretty much out for us.

As for the question of what we were "meant to" eat, I'm not sure how one could go about establishing such a list (though having a copy would certainly make life easier ). One thing I do know is that many healthy populations, in diverse parts of the world, have been consuming dairy products for thousands of years. They're a food of civilization -- as are grains and pulses -- but civilization is a natural part of being human. If I were to give up dairy on the grounds that it wasn't available to my hunter-gatherer ancestors, I'd also have to give up central heating, air conditioning, electric light and refrigeration... not to mention tropical, out-of-season, canned, or frozen fruits, coffee and tea, distilled liquor, carbonated water, and honey as more than an occasional delicacy. These things have been part of my ancestors' lives for far less time than dairy products, and one could certainly come up with an argument against each of them on health grounds. But I'm not going to be the one to take a stand for "paleo purity." The SCD is hard enough as it is, without having to stand over a smoky campfire dressed in animal skins, making applesauce from some wrinkled old apples that I've stored in the back of my cave. Cheese is a venerable food, and it agrees with my digestion, so I'm happy to be able to have some... along with a dish of guacamole, a glass of lemonade, and (once this baby is born) an occasional scotch and soda on the rocks. :
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#28 of 93 Old 02-18-2009, 11:21 AM
 
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Oh yes the animal skins. Too funny. I totally see what you are saying. Yes, tropical fruits would be out, unless you lived near them. I guess dairy is just a hard one for me because I have never tolerated it well, and it always makes me wonder if our bodies were designed to drink breastmilk from another species. I do agree that many populations have been thriving on it, and maybe after healing my own body more I will be able to handle it better.

Sorry you guys have had a rough week! That's very interesting about your ten month old with the scarlet fever rash. Yes, strep is very, very rare in one so young. I know it does happen, but it's just not at all common. Did she have any residual effects from the abx? Are you on the SCD for yourself mainly or your kids? When my 3 yo had abx for strep, he had never had abx before in his life, and has never since then, but that one round of abx messed up his digestion and gut flora so much that we worked for almost a year to get things back to normal before now trying SCD. It's really quite crazy.
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#29 of 93 Old 02-22-2009, 10:40 PM
 
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I need to make a cake for a birthday celebration, and we have tried almond and pecan butter, but I'm keeping it limited right now. BUT, I am out of the nut butters, and have to order them (because we need peanut-free ones), and the only thing I can actually buy at a local store that would be peanut-free is Sunbutter. SCD says to wait three months for seeds, but do you think Sunbutter would be okay? And we are exactly two months.
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#30 of 93 Old 02-26-2009, 03:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I guess you've probably made some kind of cake already, but FWIW I wouldn't chance the Sunbutter. Well, maybe if it was a one-time thing, and you were each only going to have a tiny serving... equal to a couple of teaspoons of seeds. Anyway, I hope it went (goes?) well.

We're still kind of in the doldrums around here. Late last week, we had to go to a social event at an unfamiliar restaurant, and I got glutened. It was just one bite, but I was in horrible shape for the first few days and I'm still not back to normal. Now I'm finding myself wondering if some of my ongoing problems have been due to low-level gluten ingestion. After many years of being GF, I'd become fairly relaxed about cross-contamination, even to the point of eating McCann's and Country Choice oatmeal (this was before "GF oats" were available) and sharing a dishwasher and toaster oven with my gluten-eating family. Of course, that wouldn't account for the whole picture, as I also have trouble with additives and refined carbs in many commercial GF products. And it's still a mystery as to how I developed this gluten sensitivity in the first place.

I'm actually thinking about taking my kids off the SCD, and just having them be GF with minimal packaged foods. I'm pretty sure that would be fine for my younger two, as they don't have a lot of digestive or behavior issues. I'm not so sure about my eldest; the diet might be helping her, though it's hard to tell for certain. Anyway, for the sake of harmony I think it should be "all or none," and it's become really hard to keep up with feeding all of them, especially my 3 year old DS who eats like a horse. If I could just serve him some starch with his meals, I know he wouldn't be clamoring for snacks every couple of hours, which would make life a lot easier.

As for me, I think the diet is helping a lot, and I really want to stick with it... but I'm hardly gaining any weight, which is a bit of a concern as I'm well into the 2nd trimester and wasn't huge to start with (though I was somewhat overweight this time around). The lack of weight gain is in spite of substantial regular meals, and frequent snacks of Havarti, guacamole, fresh apple juice, farmer's cheese, and other high-calorie foods. I'll have to see how things go in the next week or two. And I really need to get back to the store that sells the SCD legal bacon.
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