What milk and why? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 66 Old 01-12-2004, 11:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am sooo milk confused. I have purchased many differnt kinds and can't seem to fnd one that DD likes. I don't really like milk at all so i am at a loss of what to give her...beisdes BM. I have tried Soy, Vanilla Soy, Organic, and Vanilla rice milk. I bought chocolate soy today but I haven't given it to her yet b/c I am not sure if I want to use chocolate as an alternative. Should the chocolate soy be used as jsut treat or is it good for her? I noticed the soy and rice milks are low in fat and isn't she supposed to have the fat?
My DD is 14 mos and still nurses strong but I would like to have an alternantive once in while that I could offer her. What do you use and can you please tell me why?

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#2 of 66 Old 01-13-2004, 01:44 AM
 
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I am interested in this too, for many of the same reasons.
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#3 of 66 Old 01-13-2004, 01:49 AM
 
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My boys drink plain soy. But, I believe bm and water are really the only drinks our bodies need. I have heard that the way our systems are set up is that fluid is for hydration and food is for nutrition, once we're weaned. There are no other species that drink fluid other than water once they are weaned. Food (or dronk) for thought at least. I wouldn't worry if I were you.
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#4 of 66 Old 01-18-2004, 11:35 PM
 
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My kids like the Trader Joe's Basmati Rice Drink. It's also only $1.09 a box here.

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#5 of 66 Old 01-19-2004, 12:33 AM
 
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I would go with raw cow's milk from a grass-fed cow, if you can get it. Nutritionally it is superior to all the other drinks you mentioned (except bm of course). The raw milk has enzymes that make it very digestible and the calcium is extremely easy to absord unlike pasteurized milk. Check out this website for info: www.realmilk.com

 

 
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#6 of 66 Old 01-19-2004, 01:47 AM
 
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Soy can be a hard food to digest, unless it is tempeh or miso. Why not milk? Or rice milk or nut milk? Juice? My DD also likes water with lemon in it. It's a twist on the same old. Also, if you are experiencing winter like we are, we give DD soups, teas (herbal), etc.

We gave up soy years ago because of the dangers of soy. I think if you do a search on it you'll find more. Also go to http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/Marketplace.htm or http://www.susunweed.com/Weed_letter...1.htm#surprise if you want to read more.

I pulled some quotes from the Susun Weed article. Some points she makes:

The phytates and other anti-nutrients in soybeans are only partially deactivated during ordinary cooking and can produce gas, reduce protein digestion, and create chronic deficiencies in children. . . .

Another way to moderate the harmful effects of tofu and other unfermented soybean products is to eat tofu with meat or fish, as is traditionally done in the Orient.

The soy industry recognized that, according to a spokesman: "The quickest way to gain product acceptability in a less affluent market is to have the product consumed on its own merit by those who are more affluent." Thus these soy byproducts have been cleverly marketed to resemble traditional foods: soy milk malteds, soy baby formula, soy yogurt, soy ice cream, soy cheese, soy hot dogs, and so on. Let's face it: these are fake products, not health foods.

Note:
1) I am well aware that one man's food is another man's poison.
2) I am not knocking natural, fermented soybean products, such as miso and tempeh, small amounts of tofu in seaweed soups, etc.
3) As for formula, not every mom can or wants to breastfeed - but why soy formula? Why not cow milk formula or better yet, goat's milk?

I totally agree about raw milk, but I have had to settle for organic milk.

Edited to add this terrific link: http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html
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#7 of 66 Old 01-19-2004, 02:01 AM
 
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I agree with ja mama. Also, keep in mind that chocolate and vanilla (and even plain sometimes) soy milks tend to have lots of sugar in them.

My son (16 mos) drinks mostly BM and water, but he has regular soy milk in his cereal, and he likes it.

I would suggest using the soy (or rice or nut) milk in cereal or a smoothie, and then your daughter probably won't mind the taste.

I also suggest avoiding cow's milk because nature designed cow's milk to turn a baby calf into a COW not a person. We are also the only species to drink milk past infancy (or toddlerhood ). Basically I truly believe it isn't healthy at all, but that's JMO.

If you go with soy, make sure that it's organic, since soybeans are one of the biggies in terms of GMO's and pesticides.
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#8 of 66 Old 01-19-2004, 08:54 AM
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I second the recommendation for raw milk as being far superior than the other pseudo-milks. Soy milk is just plain dangerous since it hasn't gone through a LONG period of predigesting the anti-nutrients. In China, soy milk was traditionally made by a very long process (and was initially just given to pigs during times of starvation to increase their milk production, which was used for human consumption). This is far from the case with quick-made conventional soy milk.
Rice milk-- I find that way too sweet. The sugar content is indeed pretty high. However, making your own isn't too hard, and probably would ensure some fiber is still present in the milk (which would decrease the glycemic effect of the starch).
There's no nutritional reason to give your child these milks. And since your child doesn't even like them, why bother?
There's a way to make almond milk (by first predigesting anti-nutrients and then fermenting it). This is drink full of nutrients as well as enzymes.
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#9 of 66 Old 01-19-2004, 01:08 PM
 
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My DD started getting one cold after the next several months ago and the cows milk was aggravating her congestion so we switched to rice milk. I didnt' care for the starchy taste so we tried a couple other milk alternatives. Soy scared me and I didn't care for the oatmilk so we ended up with almond milk. DD loves it. The only thing I don't understand is why it's low fat? Aren't almonds high in fat? Do they take the fat out for some reason? I'd be interested in making our own but I'm not sure how to do it. Morsan, I'm really interested in what you said about making your own almond milk. Do you have a recipe or directions or know where I can get more info?
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#10 of 66 Old 01-19-2004, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Holy Cow! Thanks sooo much for all your replies. I really learned a lot! I thought soy was a healthy food choice. It never even occured to me that she didn't even have to drink milk (other then BM) at all. This was so informative thank you all sooo much!
I am going to look up a recipe for almond milk and see if that is somehitng she may enjoy in her cereal.

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#11 of 66 Old 01-19-2004, 06:31 PM
 
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I agree with je mama. Kids don't really need any of the milks, be it cow milk, soy milk, rice milk, ect...Most just like it on cereal and such. I think water is our perfect drink and that all nutrients can be obtained by food. I personally like to alternate rice milk, almond milk and soy milk, for variety. My daughter is severly allergic to all dairy, even trace amounts, so cow milk is out of the question. I have seen plenty of the soy, rice and almond milks that are full fat- the only ones I have seen that are low fat say 'low fat' on the label. Rice milk is naturally lower in fat than the others, but is also a little higher in sugar. I agree that kids, especially young kids, really need their essential fats, but it does not need to come from any of the above mentioned drinks. For fat, I give my girl flax oil every day, as well as seeds, nuts and things like coconut milk. For calcium, I give her almonds, kale, broccolli, sunflower seeds, rice, soy and almond milks, as well as a chewable supplement (just to be on the safe side).
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#12 of 66 Old 01-19-2004, 08:13 PM
 
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#13 of 66 Old 01-20-2004, 04:24 AM
 
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I would have to say raw milk too. I only give my kids raw milk or if I cannot get it, I give them organic non GMO soy. I make sure I read the label & get the one without canola oil in. I am very lucky in that I have access to organic, grass fed raw milk where they do not truck their male calves off to the meat works. I would not buy it otherwise. We only drink soy when we are out of the house. I'd still take my chances with organic non-GMO soy milk without canola oil over homogonised, pasteurised milk any day.

All that said, I do try to give them water & nutritative herb teas like nettle instead & make up for their calcium & protein & fat intakes from primarily plant sources.

Milk is an extra food in our house as a pose to a core food.
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#14 of 66 Old 01-20-2004, 10:29 AM
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hipumpkins- Yes, I have a recipe for almond milk I can share with you. I haven't made it myself yet, but from what I've heard it's really yummy. I guess your daughter will be the judge though!
Since I don't have a computer at home, I will try and remember to get back about the recipe. Probably later today. PM me just to make sure.
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#15 of 66 Old 01-20-2004, 01:19 PM
 
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I am quite fortunate because where I live they only sell non gmo organic soy milk... so that makes life alot easier... im vegan so i dont drink cows milk at all... my daughter is quite healthy... like said before i do not use soy milk as a core food... its used mostly in smoothies, cereal, and baking... i prefer herbal teas, water, and pure juices for drinks....

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#16 of 66 Old 01-20-2004, 03:45 PM
 
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We use Almond Breeze. It is not organic but it is the only alternative Sam will drink. I take that back, she will drink Chocolate Silk. There are lots of alternatives out there. We went with one because she needs variety at preschool. Several ounces of water a day gets boring. We vary it with organic juice.

Also, none of them HAVE to be a part of your little one's diet. American just believe milk is vital so when we want or have to avoid it, we look for "milk alternatives". What about water? All the nutrient provided in a milk or alternative drink can be gotten from food.
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#17 of 66 Old 01-21-2004, 02:08 AM
 
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Hi all - interesting thread. Have tried all of these options and my dd likes them all (except cow's milk - never had ).

Recently, though, I've been really concerned about the amount of sugar she eats. Not the obvious candybars, but all the "hidden" sugars in foods. I've suffered from chronic candida for about a year and don't want the same to happen to her.

Anyway, I have found that the ONLY milk alternative without added sugar is oat milk. We have a wide selection here and it's the only one I've found. Also, through research, I've found that fruitjuice is esentially sugar water with a high "sugar-load". These food are really bad for our bodies, particularly young/developing ones.

If I had to do it all again, I'd stick to breastmilk (a great reason to pump and save) and clean water. That's my two cents.

Me : living with and loving papa and the kids: Dd1 8/97 , dd2 8/04 and my sweet baby ds 5/09 : :
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#18 of 66 Old 01-21-2004, 09:31 AM
 
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I make my own soy milk for my daughter. Actually, I usually toss in flax seed, soybeans, almonds, oats, and brown rice.... makes for a very tasty blend I add NO sugar. I use a machine from: http://www.soyajoy.com

I love making her milk.... I also make a nice big batch of soylatte for me so I have it on hand..... chocolate-coffee-milk. YUM!

I also add acidophilus and let it sit overnight in a warm place (usually closed microwave) and make soy yogurt for her

Good stuff all around!
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#19 of 66 Old 01-21-2004, 12:02 PM
 
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Kimberlylibby,

Could you make soy yogurt with store bought soy milk? Silk is the most common brand here. I would love more detailed instructions if you are will. I can certainly try it if you do not know about the store-bought aspect. My youngest, despite being dairy intolerant, loves yogurt and can tolerate it mostly. But I would love to get her off of it (even the one or two tubs a year she eats).

Thanks.
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#20 of 66 Old 01-21-2004, 12:55 PM
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Try cow's milk. Make sure to get lowfat, not whole milk - cow's milk is fattier than breastmilk. Dioxin may be an issue with respect to all animal fats, as well, so limiting one's exposure can make sense. Make sure you get organic milk or milk from a small (preferably local) producer who doesn't use rBST or any other hormones or unnecessary antibiotics.

And FYI, this sort of comment has essentially no rational basis, IMO:

Quote:
I also suggest avoiding cow's milk because nature designed cow's milk to turn a baby calf into a COW not a person. We are also the only species to drink milk past infancy (or toddlerhood ). Basically I truly believe it isn't healthy at all, but that's JMO.
Yup. We're the only species to eat olive tapenade, goat cheese, and fermented soy products, too. I mean, c'mon folks. Additionally, is it breastmilk that turns humans into humans? Would a baby human turn into a goat if it drank only goat milk, then, according to this logic??

Please, please stop with this silliness!!!

I thought we'd taken care of this sort of thing on the "blood and pus in cow's milk" thread.

/rant
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#21 of 66 Old 01-21-2004, 01:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by mpeel
Kimberlylibby,

Could you make soy yogurt with store bought soy milk? Silk is the most common brand here. I would love more detailed instructions if you are will. I can certainly try it if you do not know about the store-bought aspect. My youngest, despite being dairy intolerant, loves yogurt and can tolerate it mostly. But I would love to get her off of it (even the one or two tubs a year she eats).

Thanks.
Yes, you could. It just would be a heck of a lot sweeter!

I heat it to warm (to the touch) put it in a glass container, add 1 T of yogurt starter (you can get vegan stuff at a health food store, or you can use 1 T of any kind of yogurt with live cultures, MUST HAVE LIVE CULTURES).

I put a lid on the container and put it in the microwave to keep it warm for 10 hours (don't turn the microwave on, it's just an incubator)... or your oven with just the light on....

10 hours later you'll have yogurt. I have varied results with thickness, depending on how successfully I keep it the right temperature... but if it is thin, I just toss some berries in and make a drink for dd.... if thicker, she eats it plain.

Good luck!
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#22 of 66 Old 01-21-2004, 01:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marlena

Please, please stop with this silliness!!!

I thought we'd taken care of this sort of thing on the "blood and pus in cow's milk" thread.

/rant
I guess you're just not willing to accept that some people have done research and come to different conclusions than you. Can you at least accept that someone could rationalize the opinion that cow's milk is not healthy for humans? Or are you so unyielding in your views that everyone must submit to your views.... I'd hate to think that your smugness denies you the ability to consider the viewpoints of another intelligent, well-researched human being.
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#23 of 66 Old 01-21-2004, 02:27 PM
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We've already been over all this ground before. I'm quite willing to accept that there may be good reasons to avoid dairy products from certain producers, or from certain regions of the country, or what have you. But I have yet to see good research linked either on this thread (in the relevant posts) or on the "blood and pus" thread. (The one set of links in the "blood and pus" thread that go to what appears to be reputable studies don't actually make the point the post author intended to make, as it dealt with a rare form of pathogen that can cause mastitis, rather than the usual stuff).

Just because it's published somewhere on the net doesn't therefore make it credible.
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#24 of 66 Old 01-21-2004, 02:54 PM
 
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Great info on alternatives. I don't drink milk and don't plan on giving to my daughter.


I agree that you can't believe everything you read on the net. Thats why I'm relying on what I've seen and myself have experienced w/milk. When I stopped drinking milk and consuming dairy products, my health drastically improved. The weight dropped, I felt so much better, I stopped having awful stomach cramps. Best thing is I haven't gotten any severe colds. I used to get colds left and right and could never get rid of that congestion.
I've known several people who have experience renewed good health by quitting dairy. So this is enough evidence for me. My gut tells me that cows milk was made for baby cows and thats it.
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#25 of 66 Old 01-21-2004, 03:19 PM
 
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Ok the great milk debate could go on for ions...between people who drink milk and who dont.... cant we all just get along .....hehehehe..

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#26 of 66 Old 01-21-2004, 03:36 PM
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Marlena- Thanks for that hilarious comment. I laughed so hard!!
Lots of babies in the past have had the milk of another animal if a mother died or could not nurse (and there was no one else around to nurse).

Sweetpeasmom- Could it be your gut's telling you that cows milk isn't good for you? Sounds exactly like you have lactose-intolerance. Not everyone has that condition. And yes, being sensitive to lactose would get you congested if you consumed it. There's nothing general about the combination human-cow's milk to be drawn from that, just that you're lactose-intolerant.

Here's the almond drink recipe:
2 cups skinless almonds
warm flitered water
2 tsp sea salt
1/4 cup whey
1/8 cup raw honey or Rapadura
1 tsp vanilla extract
1 tsp almond extract
filtered water

Soak almonds in warm water overnight. Drain and process into a smooth paste in a food processor. Mix this with everything else in 2-quart jug and add enough water to fill it.. Cover tightly and set at room temperature for 2 days. Then refigerate. Stir well before serving.
You can also use freshly shelled pecans or walnuts.

Fermented beverages are great because the body can more easily assimilate the fluids this way (rather than drinking water plain).

I also have a recipe for fermented brown rice milk, if you're interested.
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#27 of 66 Old 01-21-2004, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You bet I am! I can't beleive how simple it seems to amke almond milk.
Thanks!

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#28 of 66 Old 01-21-2004, 04:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marlena


Just because it's published somewhere on the net doesn't therefore make it credible.
Why do you assume my research is from the internet exclusively?

It isn't that I think YOU are not entitled to your own opinion, but you are basically slamming anyone who could possibly think something is wrong with the whole idea of drinking/eating cow byproducts. Perhaps you could word things differently... like "We've done the research and found that for us, the benefits outweigh the risks of drinking cow milk."

I was challenged to question my views on dairy when my daughter ended up vomiting and getting diarrhea after any tiny exposure to dairy. I was upset, because I wasn't very well-researched in the alternatives.... when I started looking things up, I went from "ooh, soy milk, that's fake and creepy..." to "hey, you know, that does make sense..."

I feel confident that soy/oat/almond/rice/flax milk is a good addition to my diet and my family's diet. I know exactly what I'm putting in the milk I make for her, and that makes me a lot more confident.

Kimberly
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#29 of 66 Old 01-21-2004, 04:41 PM
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If your child is lactose-intolerant, or if for some reason dairy products don't keep well in your household, then sure, dairy alternatives may be a better choice for you. I never said the contrary.
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#30 of 66 Old 01-21-2004, 04:46 PM
 
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We drink organic cow's milk as none of us tolerate soy products very well, and we find rice milk to sweet and the others more work than we can handle right now. I have done a lot of research about it and I am peaceful with our choice and respect other people's choices too! We will go without milk rather than drink non-organic, and that is no huge hardship for us.

I do agree with the argument that saying "our species is the only one to do this" is unhelpful as we do so many things that aren't found in the rest of nature - some of them good, some of them bad.

We were asked to share "what milk and why?" I hope I haven't offended anyone by my comments.
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