Raw milk debate with DH - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 8 Old 12-10-2010, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We've been drinking raw, organic grass fed milk for 2 YRS now, and the other day DH demands 'scientific proof' that raw milk is safe for our children.  DH can win any argument any time and talk me to death and I really hate having any 'discussion' with him.  I told him our farm is very sanitary, it's an amish farm they themselves drink it everyday and they have maybe 10 cows to milk.  We've watched dirty jobs with the big milk mills and I told him that is where the problem of dirty milk lies in overcrowding and mass milk production.  I also told him that the Weston Price foundation recommends raw because of all of the nutrients lost due to pasturization.  He said who is weston price, give me real proof, and honestly, I didn't research raw milk to death so I didn't have much of a footing to stand on.  This all stems from my husband's daily practice of over sharing and now he feels that I need to answer to all of his coworkers that think it is 'gross'  irked.gif 


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#2 of 8 Old 12-10-2010, 08:39 AM
 
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Here you go, it's the best anyone can do:

 

http://www.realmilk.com/ppt/index.html

 

If he tears that apart, the only other thing you can do is demand scientific proof that pasteurized milk is safe.


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#3 of 8 Old 12-10-2010, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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haha thank you, he's so frustrating sometimes eyesroll.gif


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#4 of 8 Old 12-10-2010, 08:44 AM
 
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Wait! Actually, I gave you the wrong link. I just googled it and thought that was the one I was thinking of.

 

THIS is the one I was thinking of, and I think it's better for your purpose, because it's a point by point response to the FDA's position.

 

http://www.realmilk.com/documents/SheehanPowerPointResponse2009Oct.pdf


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#5 of 8 Old 12-10-2010, 10:58 AM
 
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I would check out the dairy you get the milk from (I don't know what your state requires) but there have been some places here in PA that do fail inspections and have had problems with their milk-not saying you have these issues but if someone says something to him you should have some testing proof to back up what you say

 

FYI not all raw milk is organic (several places here sell non-organic raw) that might a difference to him


 

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#6 of 8 Old 12-15-2010, 08:07 PM
 
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Does your dairy do any testing on a regular basis?  Our dairy tests for mastitis at every milking, and they test for a number of other milk pathogens at some kind of regular interval.  (Can't remember what that interval is at the moment.)  They are always very willing to share their testing results.* 

 

Good test results are about as scientific as you are going to get.  No natural food, pasteurized or not, can be guaranteed 100% safe at all times.  I assume, for example, your dh never eats deli meat?  It is recalled for possible bacterial contamination with alarming frequency, and pregnant women are now advised not to eat it!  Does he allow raw chicken into your home or fresh fruit?  'Cause chicken is the number one cause of food poisoning, followed by leafy greens, fruits and nuts.  So if your dh is willing to risk going to Subway now and then, or giving his kids a salad or an apple, he is operating with a double standard of "proof".  You can't prove that raw milk is safe, because in fact, it is not perfectly safe.  (Just like your salad is not perfectly safe.)  The real question should be:  Is it any *more* dangerous than other foods we feel are worth the risk because of their nutritional benefit?  If it is not, the debate is over.  If it *is*, is the risk/benefit ratio still within our tolerance levels?  (You might accept more risk for leafy greens, for example, than you would for deli meat, because the benefit is greater and the risk still low.)  I hope this line of thinking is helpful in your discussions with him. 

 

*An aside:  Our dairy once had a nutritional analysis done on their milk as well, which was very interesting.  The levels of some micro-nutrients as well as some major vitamins were much higher than in conventional milk.  The nutritional analysis was a one-time thing, though, and I believe it was commissioned and paid for by one of their clients, so most dairies might not have that info.  I no longer have it for our dairy. 

 

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#7 of 8 Old 12-15-2010, 08:32 PM
 
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To me, it just comes down to simple logic and critical thinking. Assuming the concern is bacteria contamination. Human mothers pump milk for their children (and sometimes, for donating to others) and store it all the time. Whether its an emergency freezer stash, or to send to daycare. Either way, it is milk, being removed from the body of a mammal, to be consumed at a later time. I've never had to be a regular/every day pumper, but I know that I never put forth much effort to santize. Sure, I boiled pump parts once in a while (probably less than once a week) but goodness, I don't think I ever even washed my hands before pumping. I pumped into containers that had just been sitting out open on the counter. I never had any special rules to follow to make sure I didn't contaminate the milk. Raw dairy farmers DO have special rules to follow to make sure there's no contamination. So, what makes humans so special that we can be "uncareful" when we pump and our milk is perfectly safe, but even when farmers use precautions when milking their cows, its somehow unsafe? Its either safe to  drink milk after its been removed from the animal (or human) or its not. No sense discriminating against non humans! 


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#8 of 8 Old 12-16-2010, 06:20 AM
 
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I think the main issue is to talk to your farmer. Healthy cows will give healthy milk. The risk comes when either the cow is carrying pathogens, or pathogens are introduced due to careless handling. So you'll want to inquire to make sure they're testing the milk from time to time for things like tuberculosis, brucellosis and Johnes disease. Then you want to inquire about how the milk is handled and stored during and after milking. I personally would not obtain milk from a farmer who was unwilling to talk frankly to me about these issues-- your farmer should be glad to address your concerns if you are courteous about asking.

The farm where I purchase raw milk has a sign stating, "Our cows are all certified for TB, Brucellosis and Johnes disease. Our milk is tested once a week and our operation is certified by the PA Dept. of Agriculture and PA Organic Certified." They also have it on their website.

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