Questioning or Former Veg*n Support/Chat - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 89 Old 03-14-2011, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Mmmm, I haven't tried meatballs yet. I did try a bratwurst the other day! There was a very pork-y taste to it that I didn't really like--but not that the pork was bad, just that this particular brat really tasted "sweaty"? Idk--I'm going to keep trying to see if I really do dislike it or just certain ways it's prepared. I'm seeing cheap deals on farm-raised pork here all the time, so I'd really like to like it, even just for the ease of obtaining it here in my locale.

 

Tonight I roasted a chicken--my goodness, I have to say that learning to cook meat again sure is throwing me for a loop--it was about 10pm before we had dinner! So now I know to start the chicken waaaaay earlier. I roasted it with whole potatoes, garlic cloves, and quartered apples, sprinkled the chicken with pumpkin pie spice, paprika, garlic, salt. It was good!

 

Since we were out of town until last night, there are no freshies in the fridge, and I need my green leafies!! But I remembered that I had frozen bags of prepped cole slaw that need eaten up--so tomorrow we get chicken breast sammiches and cole slaw for lunch eat.gif

 

Bodhitree--that Full Moon Feast book sounds interesting. I identify so much with a lot of what you're saying, how your thinking has changed.

 

My primary reason for quitting meat was factory farming and animal injustice; then last year getting into our local food movement via weekly trips to our csa farm kinda got me started on re-accepting that animals can be raised well and sustainably for the land. I used to think that vegetarianism would save the environment, but now for myself I think that local based food culture has a more positive impact, whether that food includes animal products or not.

 

Just to clarify from upthread-I don't think that my health problems came from vegetarianism, but rather from having multiple surgeries per year for several years, etc--just that those were a major draw on my core health, followed by pregnancy (tho I was lacto-ovo thru the pg), then after he was born I got really nasty sick a couple times and could really feel that I was having a hard time fighting it off--and then I started craving meat really strongly. So my health problems were unrelated, but I think that eating meat (esp. bone broth) is a faster route to helping me get my core strength back.

 

Slightly related in food land-planted the baby corn, black-eyed peas, mini squash, some adzuki, and more spinach today! Researching coop designs. Remembering baby chicks from my childhood. Tomorrow, I'm planting a stir-fry plot with mustard greens, snow peas, raab broccoli, carrots, green onions. Mmmmm, bring it!

 

Tonight, dd said, 'I'm so glad that I decided to eat meat once again--this dinner is delicious' :D

 

My new healing food / nutrition goal is to make smoothies (with greens) in the am to go with breakfast and to get back on taking our supplements.


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#62 of 89 Old 03-16-2011, 07:02 PM
 
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Ooh, your garden sounds great. I haven't started putting anything in the ground yet. There are still two whole months to go before our last frost date! I'll probably start putting in some lettuce, spinach, and kale within the next couple weeks, though. I had big plans to start seeds indoors, but I can't keep DD out of the houseplants as it is, and I don't have anyplace to start seeds that would be out of her reach.

 

Now that I've had more of a chance to look it over, I highly recommend Full Moon Feast. There are recipes (I haven't tried any yet) but much of the book is just about food and our relationship to it and how eating mindfully can encourage connection in our lives. I think it's pretty great.

 

My parents are coming this weekend, and I think we're going to grill steaks! I haven't had a steak in probably 18 years, so that will be interesting. I'm hoping I love it. I'm just not up for joylessly eating things because I have to. Enjoying my food is a very high priority for me! The good news is that my palate is adjusting. When I first started eating eggs again, they tasted kind of icky but I choked them down. Now I like them! joy.gif


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#63 of 89 Old 03-22-2011, 06:33 AM
 
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Just bumping to say the steaks were good and I'm excited to cook all kinds of stuff on my new grill!

 

How's everyone else doing? smile.gif


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#64 of 89 Old 03-27-2011, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Full Moon Feast is now on my Amazon wishlist ;)

 

We had steaks last Saturday, too, and wow! Like meat candy, lol. Seriously can't believe I waited this long to have steak!

 

Tonight we're having pork loin medallions and baked potatoes, steamed broccoli. Pork is my bravest foray so far, lol. I had this huge detest for it while veg*n (probably because I associated it so much with all the factory farm stuff I've seen). But this is a farm pig, and I think it's going to be really good.

 

I don't know what's up with me--I am still hungry all.the.friggin.time if I don't eat meat daily. I've been adding in lots of fats to everything I cook on the premise that more (healthy) fats help one feel fuller for longer. But maybe it's 'coz we haven't been eating a lot of bread products and have had no cheese in the house for a couple of weeks which is really different for us. That's probably it, now that I think about it. We've been eating brown rice and quinoa and occasional organic corn tortillas (with lime!), but really hardly any bread and the dearth of cheese is a major change for my house.

 

I'm checking out a local herd share for a milk supply--this is a huge step for me as I've been a loyal soy girl for years and years. But since I've been digging heavy cream, half and half, milk kefir, butter, etc, I think I can do some real milk--if not we'll just use the milk in other dishes like cream soups, sauces, etc. I haven't yet made the leap of faith to call local farmers about getting a large quantity of meat--I'm working myself up to it and actually really looking forward to it! I want to make cheese!! I made yogurt which came out a lot like ricotta though flavored w/ honey and pumpkin pie spice so I froze it and made soft-serve yogurt for dd.

 

I have been avoiding soy intuitively, I know I ate it/drank it for so long (and in mass quantities), and NOW I'm questioning whether it's healthy for me? Right. Idk, I think I hit this turning point w/ soy as ds has started solids and I just have this mama gut intuition that I don't want to feed him soy or give him soy breastmilk--even though I ate it while I was pregnant eyesroll.gif

 

We have a huge stash of boxed soy milk (which we get from food commodities WIC while we qualify) in the garage that must be used. I guess I'd rather have organic soy milk than "regular" antibiotic and hormone-laden cow milk. *shrug*

 

Emotionally--I'm feeling like a hypocrite for all my years of loyal veg-sim and now I'm so easily swinging to the other end of the pendulum.

 

I recently read on mdc that detesting meat can be a sign of zinc deficiency--hmmm. There were many times in the last handful of years that I suspected zinc deficiency for other reasons.

 

Still really enjoying the challenge of re-learning to cook and the huge variety of dishes that are now open to me. Still feeling relieved and really overjoyed at the freedom I now have in my diet. Have come out to the rest of my family and have gotten some irritating comments about how "we're made to eat meat....protein deficiency, etc." which really irk me. I don't think I was ever protein deficient, not by a far sight. I think I was fat-deficient lol.gif and missing out on some other nutrients, probably. But I do still feel like I have to defend that people CAN be healthy on vegetarianism and that there are traditional veg diets (granted they are lacto-ovo) that are quite sustainable. It's like people want me to admit that I was wrong all those years, and I can't admit that because I don't believe it--we ate really healthy! I managed to produce a big healthy baby on a veg diet! Isn't that proof enough?

 

So I am still really glad for the support on this thread because even though I've "come out" and am positively accepting myself as a meat-eater, I still feel like there are issues that only others who have gone through this transition will understand.


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#65 of 89 Old 03-27-2011, 02:00 PM
 
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hi, I guess this would be me.  I have been a very strict vegan with a few breaks for the past 6 years.  However for the past year or so I started eating meat somewhat regularly, following my cravings-- mostly roasted chicken (including skin), some eggs, and yogurt.  However I still average a "mostly vegan" way of eating but since I'm not strictly vegan I never know what to call myself!

 

I developed a lot of dental problems while vegan despite the fact that I was drinking juice fortified with calcium.  I still don't know if this was "just because" or if it was due to cutting out all dairy (I was also sugar free and still am, more or less).  I'm still not sure what to do on this front.  I don't particularly like cheese or milk but can usually eat yogurt in moderate quantities.

 

However all this came crashing to a halt when I learned my mother had been diagnosed with breast cancer-- I have not eaten meat since-- one of the main reasons I cut out meat in the first place was because of the cancer risk.  I don't know how realistic my fears are, and I would like to go back to an occasional meal with poultry or fish, but am terrified now.  My mother has always eaten a lot of meat, most of it red meat, a lot of it grilled.  Any thoughts on the cancer risk of eating meat? 

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#66 of 89 Old 03-27-2011, 07:12 PM
 
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>However I still average a "mostly vegan" way of eating but since I'm not strictly vegan I never know what to call myself!

 

Back when I was vegan, I called somebody who ate that way a "meat minimalist".

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#67 of 89 Old 03-28-2011, 12:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frugalmum View Post

However all this came crashing to a halt when I learned my mother had been diagnosed with breast cancer-- I have not eaten meat since-- one of the main reasons I cut out meat in the first place was because of the cancer risk.  I don't know how realistic my fears are, and I would like to go back to an occasional meal with poultry or fish, but am terrified now.  My mother has always eaten a lot of meat, most of it red meat, a lot of it grilled.  Any thoughts on the cancer risk of eating meat? 
 


Thread-crashing :) to say that

 

1) AFAIK the jury is still out on meat consumption and risk of breast and colorectal cancers, and

 

2) I think the concern is more about red meat cooked at high temperatures or cured/preserved, rather than about total animal-product consumption per se.  Fish has been found to be protective in some analyses.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20495462

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21110906

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15956652

 


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#68 of 89 Old 03-28-2011, 03:39 PM
 
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thanks mambera.  My understanding is that charred red meats are dangerous and that cured meats contain sulfites which are carcinogenous. 

 

Has anyone here tried canned Salmon?  This would kill two birds with one stone (haha) as it is very high in calcium.  I've never tried it.  How did you prepare/ serve it?  Is it already cooked in the can or is it raw?

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#69 of 89 Old 03-28-2011, 03:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craft_media_hero View Post

 

I'm checking out a local herd share for a milk supply--this is a huge step for me as I've been a loyal soy girl for years and years. But since I've been digging heavy cream, half and half, milk kefir, butter, etc, I think I can do some real milk--if not we'll just use the milk in other dishes like cream soups, sauces, etc. I haven't yet made the leap of faith to call local farmers about getting a large quantity of meat--I'm working myself up to it and actually really looking forward to it! I want to make cheese!! I made yogurt which came out a lot like ricotta though flavored w/ honey and pumpkin pie spice so I froze it and made soft-serve yogurt for dd.

 

I have been avoiding soy intuitively, I know I ate it/drank it for so long (and in mass quantities), and NOW I'm questioning whether it's healthy for me? Right. Idk, I think I hit this turning point w/ soy as ds has started solids and I just have this mama gut intuition that I don't want to feed him soy or give him soy breastmilk--even though I ate it while I was pregnant eyesroll.gif

 

We have a huge stash of boxed soy milk (which we get from food commodities WIC while we qualify) in the garage that must be used. I guess I'd rather have organic soy milk than "regular" antibiotic and hormone-laden cow milk. *shrug*

 

Emotionally--I'm feeling like a hypocrite for all my years of loyal veg-sim and now I'm so easily swinging to the other end of the pendulum.

 

I recently read on mdc that detesting meat can be a sign of zinc deficiency--hmmm. There were many times in the last handful of years that I suspected zinc deficiency for other reasons.

 

Still really enjoying the challenge of re-learning to cook and the huge variety of dishes that are now open to me. Still feeling relieved and really overjoyed at the freedom I now have in my diet. Have come out to the rest of my family and have gotten some irritating comments about how "we're made to eat meat....protein deficiency, etc." which really irk me. I don't think I was ever protein deficient, not by a far sight. I think I was fat-deficient lol.gif and missing out on some other nutrients, probably. But I do still feel like I have to defend that people CAN be healthy on vegetarianism and that there are traditional veg diets (granted they are lacto-ovo) that are quite sustainable. It's like people want me to admit that I was wrong all those years, and I can't admit that because I don't believe it--we ate really healthy! I managed to produce a big healthy baby on a veg diet! Isn't that proof enough?

 

So I am still really glad for the support on this thread because even though I've "come out" and am positively accepting myself as a meat-eater, I still feel like there are issues that only others who have gone through this transition will understand.



I'm jealous that you get to look for a milk herd share. I'm so looking forward to getting dairy back in our diets someday. Sigh.

 

I would probably use the soymilk too. We've been avoiding soy just because it's such an allergenic food, but I'm not convinced that soy is the devil in food form like a lot of people believe. I don't know that I want to eat it in huge quantities like I used to, but I don't think smallish amounts are going to kill you.

 

And I don't think that changing your diet means you're a hypocrite. When your circumstances, knowledge, and needs change, you can change your actions too, and it's just fine. The cognitive whiplash can be difficult to deal with lol.gif but there's nothing wrong with making different choices than you used to. The thing that makes the health argument a bit complicated is that people want to talk about it like the same thing is going to work for everyone, and frankly it's not! Some people can be healthy on a vegetarian diet, but others can't be. But most people aren't interested in that level of complexity, especially when their main goal is to enjoy telling you that they told you so. smile.gif



Quote:
Originally Posted by frugalmum View Post

hi, I guess this would be me.  I have been a very strict vegan with a few breaks for the past 6 years.  However for the past year or so I started eating meat somewhat regularly, following my cravings-- mostly roasted chicken (including skin), some eggs, and yogurt.  However I still average a "mostly vegan" way of eating but since I'm not strictly vegan I never know what to call myself!

 

I developed a lot of dental problems while vegan despite the fact that I was drinking juice fortified with calcium.  I still don't know if this was "just because" or if it was due to cutting out all dairy (I was also sugar free and still am, more or less).  I'm still not sure what to do on this front.  I don't particularly like cheese or milk but can usually eat yogurt in moderate quantities.

 

However all this came crashing to a halt when I learned my mother had been diagnosed with breast cancer-- I have not eaten meat since-- one of the main reasons I cut out meat in the first place was because of the cancer risk.  I don't know how realistic my fears are, and I would like to go back to an occasional meal with poultry or fish, but am terrified now.  My mother has always eaten a lot of meat, most of it red meat, a lot of it grilled.  Any thoughts on the cancer risk of eating meat? 



I've been reading lots of blogs and such about people who used to be veg and no longer are, and a bunch of them have mentioned tooth decay. I believe the theory is that not only do vegans limit their intake of calcium by not consuming dairy, but also their diet tends to be very heavy on grains and beans that contain anti-nutrients that actually prevent you from absorbing minerals. I myself haven't looked into that enough to decide whether I believe it or not, but there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that tooth decay may be associated with veg*nism.

 

I'm sorry about your mom's diagnosis. My thoughts on cancer risk--even if there is an association b/w meat consumption and cancer (another thing I'm not sure about at this point), there's a big difference between occasionally eating meat and eating a lot of it all the time. And contrary to what I used to believe when I was mostly vegan, there are plenty of nutrients (not just protein) that are much easier to get in animal products, and there are bound to be at least some health benefits to getting those nutrients. Also, our ancestors have been eating meat for hundreds of thousands of generations, so I can't believe that a type of food that was a major source of nutrition during the course of our evolution is likely to do us serious harm. In short, personally I'm not worrying about cancer risk at this time.

 

As for me, I've been getting better at being a meat-eater. It's funny that it's sort of a skill, but it sure feels that way to me! I got a few new cookbooks, which is helping. I made some chicken nuggets in the slow cooker last week, and they were yummy! There's still a learning curve, but I'm feeling more comfortable with the whole thing.


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#70 of 89 Old 03-29-2011, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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antinutrients in legumes/grains- right, that's why so many people say it's essential to soak grains/beans

 

canned salmon-salmon burgers! YUM!

 

evil soy-right, I agree that soy gets a way more bad rep than it should. I do think that it's a beneficial food and that there are probably benefits and drawbacks, all things in moderation, right? Oh, and I have also been reading/thinking about how fermented soy is easier to digest and doesn't have the anti-nutrients, etc, so I'm thinking about making soy kefir or piima milk! Since we have all that boxed milk, and it really is yummy, will be even more so once it's kefir-ed and maybe blended with some frozen fruit, huh? I have been frequenting the culturesforhealth.com site, and I love love love it! I know it's off-topic, but I'm totally going to get more into fermenting foods and try making sourdough bread (though it seems kind of a pain that you have to feed it for several days before baking?)

 

red meat and cancer- I was browsing through the back TF thread and read smth about the fat getting burned which is where the risk factor is so that if you grill you should do so in a cast iron pan--easy enough! Idk if this is fact or not, I think it was on a TF steak thread if you wanna search, sry I don't have the link right now.

 

herd share/dairy intolerances-for what it's worth, I've seen it mentioned a lot on the tf board about how people who cannot tolerate dairy are able to drink raw milk or kefir *shrug* maybe worth a try?

 

Also---there's this book . . . "Reversing Food Intolerances" or smth like that? I bet you can dig it up if you use the search function here on mdc

 

frugalmum, welcome to the thread!!

 

Sorry this is so hasty, I've gotta get to making dinner--diced leftover pork tenderloin (which was delicious, btw) with veges in leftover cooked quinoa, like pork fried rice eat.gif

 

be back to post more soon!


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#71 of 89 Old 03-29-2011, 06:33 PM
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I saw this in a magazine and thought about this thread and thought some of you may be interested.  A documentary that will air on PBS around about Earth Day about one vegetarian woman's journey of marrying a hunter/commercial fisherman and moving to Alaska and wanting to eat locally.

 

http://www.eatingalaska.com/

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#72 of 89 Old 03-30-2011, 02:25 AM
 
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  It's so strange that this subject has been weighing heavily on my mind lately and to find a whole thread about it. As of now, I'm still on the fence.  I've been a vegetarian for 17 years and have been seriously questioning how healthy it really is for a few months now, starting with cravings and dreams about meat. Those have faded but I found out a few weeks ago that DS has two cavities and it really has me searching for answers in our diet. I can't help but think that our vegetarianism might have something to do with his decay and that my morals may be putting my family's health at risk. 

  And I feel the way so many of you have said: that I would be loosing a huge piece of my identity or my integrity if I were to start eating meat. 

  Besides dismembering things disappointed.gif -- bones and gristle and fat: OH MY! -- and the good natured but relentless ribbing of my family (they think "hey, would you like some steak?" is a HILARIOUS joke and have thought this for 17 years. I can only imagine what sort of guff we'll get when we tell them we changed our minds.), the hardest thing for me to get past is that I don't know how to justify to my child that killing things is ok and (most importantly) something that WE do, because I still have a hard time justifying it to myself.

  Though I've been at times a fairly militant vegetarian in the past (though not evangelical), I've tried to raise DS without the militant view (ie: most people eat meat but our family doesn't, no big deal.) but he's a sensitive guy. He once had a concerned talk with me after watching me spray the ants who had taken up residence in my houseplants with orange oil. He said that really there was no need to kill the ants because they don't hurt us and we can all share the house together and be happy. (He's three.) And frankly I'm a sensitive lady so I had no answer for him other that they get into the cats' food and then the cats have nothing to eat, because he's kind of right and I asked myself the same question while I was doing it. As far as pests go, ants are really just annoying and not much else.  

  And I question whether I'm really entitled to eat an animal that I KNOW I wouldn't have the guts/gumption/stomach to kill myself. I've always stuck to the philosophy that if I was starving, I would certainly kill and eat an animal, but if I have the option to make another choice, why shouldn't I? 

 But is my body trying to tell me that it's not an option I can choose?

One thing that really resonated with me is how pp's have mentioned how much we go out of our way with the processed veggie substitute products that have a laundry list of ingredients when meat is so unprocessed (ie: so much closer to "real food"). I am so  careful to get pure, fresh, organic produce and dairy etc. but I serve 'em up with a processed slab of Quorn from a box in the freezer. What's that about?! Soy may or may not be safe, but it's defiantly a goitrogen, and being hyperthyroid, I try to avoid it these days. (I swilled it down like there was no tomorrow in the past!) And most of the other veggie proteins are so carb heavy.

 I agree with the traditional food philosophies in many respects. We've been drinking raw milk and eating pastured eggs for about a year and a half. We eat lots of butter, cheese, and cream.  I try to soak most grains (but meal planing is not my strong suit) and our bread is homemade, slow fermented, whole wheat sourdough. I just started implementing fermented cod liver oil and cell salts for the cavities. I want to try bone broth, but I'm really intimidated by all the cracking bones and skimming fat and the mere mention of phrases such as "jello-like consistency" creep me out to no end. 

  I brought the meat question up to DP the other evening, and this decision is so weighty and I've seen meat as such an "evil" for so long, I felt like Eve temping Adam with the apple. DP felt weird about the idea of it, like I do.  He says he's ok if DS and I go carnivore, but he's not so sure about himself. (he's afraid he'll get fat, he says. lol.gif) But I also wonder if a change in HIS diet wouldn't improve his wild mood swings and quick temper he gets when he's hungry. Plus he has cavities too, after 10 years on a vegetarian diet. 

   I must say that the idea of opening a whole new undiscovered world of cooking is really intriguing and exciting. 

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#73 of 89 Old 03-30-2011, 10:20 AM
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I just recently found this thread and while I still haven't read through the whole thing, so many of you have so succinctly expressed what I have been thinking about the past couple months. I am so sad that my vegan diet dies not seem right for me any more. Part of me feels like perhaps I am not trying hard enough to make it work, but honestly, I no linger have the energy...and that is a big part of my problem. I am weak, tired, unmotivated, and my skin has felt like sandpaper. I just started letting some dairy and eggs back into my diet, and it seems to be helping with my skin (I'm guessing the fats?). I don't anticipate being ready to eat meat ever again, but in some way I wish I could. I have learned that I have been oh so judgmental and now that it is me weighing my ethics against what my body needs/wants, I am singing a different tune.
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#74 of 89 Old 03-30-2011, 01:10 PM
 
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Jes, do you have a recipe for the canned salmon burgers? That sounds good. And I've heard before that some people who can't tolerate "normal" dairy do great with raw dairy. (How weird is it that pasteurized, homogenized milk is "normal"?) The problem is, I'm not sure how to get my hands on some raw milk to try it out without having to buy a herd share. I might be able to check with a couple friends, though, to see if they have any extra that I could buy from them. I just don't want to spend $75 on the herd share and a month's worth of milk, only to find out we can't use it, kwim? We are going on an intensive gut-healing campaign over the next few months, so hopefully DD and I can heal from our food intolerances and be able to do dairy again. I'd be happy being off gluten for a good long time, but I would love to be able to have kefir, butter, and cheese.

 

jeanine123, thanks for the link! That looks fascinating.

 

erratum, like you I am very sensitive and have a hard time killing insects in my house. The other day I tried to rescue a spider who had gotten stuck on some double-sided tape, but I couldn't figure out how to do it without having to pull the poor thing's legs off. So I know where you're coming from. I guess for me, I am having to make my peace with the fact that we are animals and we cannot eat without taking life. Sure, you can eat only plants, but animals and insects are killed in order to produce those plants, no matter what. I used to think I was minimizing that by being mostly vegan, and I was, when you compare a vegan diet to eating animals who are fed grains. But when you compare a vegan diet to one that includes grassfed organic meat, it's not so clear. When I eat beef, I'm eating a very small part of a large animal, and the collateral damage to other animals and insects that comes along with that is minimal. In fact, eating grassfed beef from the ranch by my town is actually a good thing, since that ranch works hard to improve the ecology on their grazing land, which improves the habitat for all the animals who live there, not just the cattle. I guess what I'm saying is that I used to think it was really simple: if I didn't want to kill, I needed to live off of plants. But now I think that there isn't any way to avoid the karmic burden of killing in order to live, so you might as well take an honest look at the complexity of the situation and make the best choices you can. For me, those choices turned out to be pretty different from what I had imagined, but I feel that my personal integrity is better off for having gone through this process and having moved toward a different (more honest, more "real") dietary pattern. I also believe that taking life in a spirit of gratitude and reverence is very different from doing so in a spirit of denial and unconcern. I am so, so grateful every time I eat meat, and to me eating meat with that awareness is better than eating wheat or beans or whatever with no awareness of everything that has been sacrificed to put food on my plate. Your mileage may vary, of course. I'm just sharing what my experience has been.

 

jkg, I liked how you put it: "I have learned that I have been oh so judgmental and now that it is me weighing my ethics against what my body needs/wants, I am singing a different tune." That's a humbling realization, isn't it? I don't think I would have ever gone down this path if health issues hadn't pretty much forced me to, but actually I'm glad that they did. I think it's good for the soul to have to confront the idea that we might be fundamentally mistaken in our beliefs. Once in a while, at least. I wouldn't want to have to do it too often! lol


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Jes, do you have a recipe for the canned salmon burgers? That sounds good. And I've heard before that some people who can't tolerate "normal" dairy do great with raw dairy. (How weird is it that pasteurized, homogenized milk is "normal"?) The problem is, I'm not sure how to get my hands on some raw milk to try it out without having to buy a herd share. I might be able to check with a couple friends, though, to see if they have any extra that I could buy from them. I just don't want to spend $75 on the herd share and a month's worth of milk, only to find out we can't use it, kwim? We are going on an intensive gut-healing campaign over the next few months, so hopefully DD and I can heal from our food intolerances and be able to do dairy again. I'd be happy being off gluten for a good long time, but I would love to be able to have kefir, butter, and cheese.

 


This recipe looks good: http://allrecipes.com//Recipe/yummy-lemon-salmon-burgers/Detail.aspx Last time, I tried the recipe off the back of the can, and it was lacking some zest, for sure! The lemon one sounds delish, though, I think I will give that a try next time. I think it would be good with a little dijon mustard mixed in to the patties, too. We've been doing fish on Fridays. I have to say, I've been trying some wack foods just for the sake of health and expanding my palate--I mixed up some sardines like how you would tuna salad (with pickle and onion, etc), and dd really liked it on crackers, I kinda choked it down coz I know sardines have good calcium and oils and all that, but the texture was a little too mushy for me. Dh gagged lol.gif I'm just going to keep at it--sardines are lower on the food chain than tuna.

 

Could you call a farm and explain your situation and that you would like a "sample" of milk? I don't know if that's exactly within the bounds of raw milk law, but I would think that if you were on site, they might let you try some and maybe take a little home? Idk. Raw milk actually sounds really good--it's been on my mind a lot lately. I emailed that farm, but no one has gotten back to me, so I will have to be more direct and call, I think. Now I'm panicking a bit that they won't have a herd share available!
 

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I just recently found this thread and while I still haven't read through the whole thing, so many of you have so succinctly expressed what I have been thinking about the past couple months. I am so sad that my vegan diet dies not seem right for me any more. Part of me feels like perhaps I am not trying hard enough to make it work, but honestly, I no linger have the energy...and that is a big part of my problem. I am weak, tired, unmotivated, and my skin has felt like sandpaper. I just started letting some dairy and eggs back into my diet, and it seems to be helping with my skin (I'm guessing the fats?). I don't anticipate being ready to eat meat ever again, but in some way I wish I could. I have learned that I have been oh so judgmental and now that it is me weighing my ethics against what my body needs/wants, I am singing a different tune.


jkg- I'm glad that you are here! I understand what you are saying. I used to think that the only fascist universal law I could ever imagine being just would be world veganism--that if everyone were vegan, it would save the planet, and there would be enough food for all. My veg*nism was really driven my animal cruelty, factory farm conditions, and the declining quality of meat in the supermarket--I was looking at it from a standard consumer perspective--but like bodhitree said, pastured animal life has a totally different impact on the earth and the life of the animal, not to mention the quality of meat. Now I feel like I have to eat my words a little because yes, grain-fed beef, etc is BAD for the environment, but I do think that free range meat consumption is different. You say "I wish I could" so I want to give you permission ;) if you want to do so, you can consume meat--if you are craving it and your inner wise mama voice is saying you need it, then don't turn away from that-give yourself what you want/need, it's okay and not just okay but really can be a great decision hug2.gif I identify with the sandpaper skin thing, I would drink water like crazy and use lots of plant oils in cooking, and my lips would always be blistery-dry but I've noticed that my skin is not as dry/itchy and my lips are no longer cracked since I started back on meat.

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  It's so strange that this subject has been weighing heavily on my mind lately and to find a whole thread about it. As of now, I'm still on the fence.  I've been a vegetarian for 17 years and have been seriously questioning how healthy it really is for a few months now, starting with cravings and dreams about meat. Those have faded but I found out a few weeks ago that DS has two cavities and it really has me searching for answers in our diet. I can't help but think that our vegetarianism might have something to do with his decay and that my morals may be putting my family's health at risk. 

  And I feel the way so many of you have said: that I would be loosing a huge piece of my identity or my integrity if I were to start eating meat. 

  Besides dismembering things disappointed.gif -- bones and gristle and fat: OH MY! -- and the good natured but relentless ribbing of my family (they think "hey, would you like some steak?" is a HILARIOUS joke and have thought this for 17 years. I can only imagine what sort of guff we'll get when we tell them we changed our minds.), the hardest thing for me to get past is that I don't know how to justify to my child that killing things is ok and (most importantly) something that WE do, because I still have a hard time justifying it to myself.

  Though I've been at times a fairly militant vegetarian in the past (though not evangelical), I've tried to raise DS without the militant view (ie: most people eat meat but our family doesn't, no big deal.) but he's a sensitive guy. He once had a concerned talk with me after watching me spray the ants who had taken up residence in my houseplants with orange oil. He said that really there was no need to kill the ants because they don't hurt us and we can all share the house together and be happy. (He's three.) And frankly I'm a sensitive lady so I had no answer for him other that they get into the cats' food and then the cats have nothing to eat, because he's kind of right and I asked myself the same question while I was doing it. As far as pests go, ants are really just annoying and not much else.  

  And I question whether I'm really entitled to eat an animal that I KNOW I wouldn't have the guts/gumption/stomach to kill myself. I've always stuck to the philosophy that if I was starving, I would certainly kill and eat an animal, but if I have the option to make another choice, why shouldn't I? 

 But is my body trying to tell me that it's not an option I can choose?

One thing that really resonated with me is how pp's have mentioned how much we go out of our way with the processed veggie substitute products that have a laundry list of ingredients when meat is so unprocessed (ie: so much closer to "real food"). I am so  careful to get pure, fresh, organic produce and dairy etc. but I serve 'em up with a processed slab of Quorn from a box in the freezer. What's that about?! Soy may or may not be safe, but it's defiantly a goitrogen, and being hyperthyroid, I try to avoid it these days. (I swilled it down like there was no tomorrow in the past!) And most of the other veggie proteins are so carb heavy.

 I agree with the traditional food philosophies in many respects. We've been drinking raw milk and eating pastured eggs for about a year and a half. We eat lots of butter, cheese, and cream.  I try to soak most grains (but meal planing is not my strong suit) and our bread is homemade, slow fermented, whole wheat sourdough. I just started implementing fermented cod liver oil and cell salts for the cavities. I want to try bone broth, but I'm really intimidated by all the cracking bones and skimming fat and the mere mention of phrases such as "jello-like consistency" creep me out to no end. 

  I brought the meat question up to DP the other evening, and this decision is so weighty and I've seen meat as such an "evil" for so long, I felt like Eve temping Adam with the apple. DP felt weird about the idea of it, like I do.  He says he's ok if DS and I go carnivore, but he's not so sure about himself. (he's afraid he'll get fat, he says. lol.gif) But I also wonder if a change in HIS diet wouldn't improve his wild mood swings and quick temper he gets when he's hungry. Plus he has cavities too, after 10 years on a vegetarian diet. 

   I must say that the idea of opening a whole new undiscovered world of cooking is really intriguing and exciting. 


erratum-welcome to our little thread! Like you and bodhitree, I have a problem killing insects, too. I totally let the ants live in my house for a while by postponing spraying them and eventually they just went away, weird, huh? 

 

I craved the bone broth first, I think I wanted the bone broth even more than the meat--my body was telling me that I needed that! The good news is that you don't have to crack the bones, you can just throw them in a pot with a little vinegar or lemon juice, spices, etc. and simmer simmer simmer. The jello-consistency I have yet to achieve with chicken broth--I think it is like the holy grail of bone broth and if you do finally get it, by then you'd probably be pretty psyched about it!

 

I don't know about the dis-membering issue. I kinda forced myself to procure the meat and go through every step of cooking it rather than rely on de-boned chicken or asking my dh to handle it raw--I just really wanted this decision to be MINE, you know? I wanted to own my meat consumption. I felt the same way, that people should be willing to kill it if they want to eat it--I don't know if I could really do that, intellectually, but I always used to tell friends (like you said) 'if I was starving in the woods, I'd definitely kill an animal to eat it' but justifying my vegetarianism that I wasn't in a life or death situation--but maybe we are? I am eating this meat to sustain my own life. For me right now, I am understanding that it is life or death. I don't know if you dig Susun Weed, and this article is primarily about goat-keeping, but if you read through it, she has some really, really awesome insights about "giving death" that I have been pondering since reading it: http://www.susunweed.com/herbal_ezine/July10/healingwise.htm I am still thinking about it . . .

 

I think if I knew how, I would totally go quail-hunting or something to sustain our poultry consumption. We have been cooking a chicken about every other week (for 3-4 meals from each bird)--that's 24 chickens a year! Wow. Would I personally kill two chickens a month to feed my family? I don't know. But I think if dh or I could hunt geese or duck or quail or smth and stock up the freezer once a year, I would feel really good about it. I have friends that do that, and I've got mad respect for them. Plus, it's much cheaper than buying it at the store! 

 

I took dh to a ribs place today and had my first ribs, non-organic and all. The freedom I have to eat where/what I want is so rich, I really am luxuriating in it--not just ordering sides at a restaurant, kwim?

 

joy.gif to you all!


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I do wonder why some people don't get the gelling in broth and others don't.  I almost always get it, even when I *hanging head* use conventional meat bones.  Do I cook it longer or use a different ratio of bones to water, perhaps?  I don't know what I'm different to get "the holy grail" of broth most of the time.  I usually use precooked bones & scraps, leftover from a meal, and I always include everything waste, rather than just bones.  My pot may have cooking juices, bones, skin, cartilage, meat and blobs of fat, depending on what was leftover from the meal, plus whatever flavoring I feel like adding.  Add all of that to a pot with water and a sploosh of whatever vinegar is handy (I usually use cheap white vinegar) and cook it down for an eternity, adding water as needed.  Chicken gets 12-24 hours, mammals get 48-72 hours.  After that, I pull out the solids and cook down the broth until it's not watery looking.  How's that different from your broth?

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I'm planning to start raising quail this spring.  It's very very affordable, takes almost no space (unlike chickens), easy to do and low effort.  The only problem I foresee is that you need to process *many* more birds than you do chickens -- if two chickens will feed your family for a month, you may have to kill a couple of dozen quail to do the same thing.  I haven't killed any yet, but I imagine it will be a little easier than chickens were.  It's a lot faster, too.  

 

Let me know if you want more information on raising quail at home.

 

 

I think if I knew how, I would totally go quail-hunting or something to sustain our poultry consumption. We have been cooking a chicken about every other week (for 3-4 meals from each bird)--that's 24 chickens a year! Wow. Would I personally kill two chickens a month to feed my family? I don't know. But I think if dh or I could hunt geese or duck or quail or smth and stock up the freezer once a year, I would feel really good about it. I have friends that do that, and I've got mad respect for them. Plus, it's much cheaper than buying it at the store! 

 
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I do wonder why some people don't get the gelling in broth and others don't.  I almost always get it, even when I *hanging head* use conventional meat bones.  Do I cook it longer or use a different ratio of bones to water, perhaps?  I don't know what I'm different to get "the holy grail" of broth most of the time.  I usually use precooked bones & scraps, leftover from a meal, and I always include everything waste, rather than just bones.  My pot may have cooking juices, bones, skin, cartilage, meat and blobs of fat, depending on what was leftover from the meal, plus whatever flavoring I feel like adding.  Add all of that to a pot with water and a sploosh of whatever vinegar is handy (I usually use cheap white vinegar) and cook it down for an eternity, adding water as needed.  Chicken gets 12-24 hours, mammals get 48-72 hours.  After that, I pull out the solids and cook down the broth until it's not watery looking.  How's that different from your broth?


That's exactly what I do. So I don't know--I've only done it with chicken, though, and I guess there's more gelatin in beef bones? Maybe I don't have enough bones--I'm doing just the leftovers from one chicken and including the cartilage, fat, etc. plus the vinegar and cooking down for about 24 hrs. *shrug* I will keep trying, though. Maybe it's my water? We have really alkaline, chlorine-y tap water which I use for cooking. Also, I haven't tried the strain it out and continue to cook down without the solids--I cook it down to about 2 quarts with the solids in it. Probably starting with at least 2 gallons of water?

 

About the quail--I like the idea of keeping them in my yard, but my city has an ordinance limiting us to 6 livestock animals, and we are planning on getting at least four laying hens. I don't think I can get around that. I'd love to have guineas or quail, though. 

 

Dh doesn't seem as into the idea of providing our own food as me; he is not as go-getter-y as I am, so I don't know if he'll take the initiative to go hunting for our food. But I'm certain that if I started training/learning about hunting for small game, he would jump on board. 

 


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I don't know if you dig Susun Weed, and this article is primarily about goat-keeping, but if you read through it, she has some really, really awesome insights about "giving death" that I have been pondering since reading it: http://www.susunweed.com/herbal_ezine/July10/healingwise.htm 




Thank you for sharing that link! I love Susun Weed, and that was a wonderful read. I have been wanting goats for a couple of years now, and I will definitely refer back to this article once we start our little herd.
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#80 of 89 Old 04-02-2011, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Just had to share that my soy milk kefir came out really good! It's not as thick as dairy kefir but light and sweet and airy with a little yogurt-y tang. I used the YoGourmet kefir packets that you can get at health food stores and let it ferment for maybe abt 48 hrs. I bet it would've got more yogurt-y if I had left it another day, but there was some definite curd going on! I think blended strawberries would make it even more yummy.gif So there's an option for dairy-free kefir at home! I thought it made be a problem that the milk was not full fat, but nope, real good!

 

So juice and soy kefir in the fridge thumb.gif both are very mild for my kefir-phobic family.


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#81 of 89 Old 04-06-2011, 12:58 AM
 
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  So I did it! I cruised around the bacon aisle at the grocery store for a while, but I chickened out every time, like I was buying condoms or nudey mags :) Then I had a plan to buy a chicken from this great place at the farmer's market, Riverdog farms. I buy eggs from them and they have pasture raised chickens with mobile coops and it sounded so perfect. That is until I discovered they sold them with the heads and feet still on. That was one giant leap for ex-veggie-kind. A bit too much too fast. So I opted instead to take things slower and get some fish. 

    I cooked it tonight and it was AMAZING! I was so surprised: nothing felt wrong about it. I felt like the pp who was talking about making yummy noises when she ate. In fact, afterwords me and DH talked about how we both felt "high" and sure enough, both our pupils were dilated. 

   DS was curious and helped me make the fish, touching it and asking questions (like "how do you think the fish feels?" as in the animal not the texture) and seemed curious in a positive way about the whole process, but didn't want to eat any. But he's a picky guy, so that's no surprise. 

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erratum, like you I am very sensitive and have a hard time killing insects in my house. The other day I tried to rescue a spider who had gotten stuck on some double-sided tape, but I couldn't figure out how to do it without having to pull the poor thing's legs off. So I know where you're coming from. I guess for me, I am having to make my peace with the fact that we are animals and we cannot eat without taking life. Sure, you can eat only plants, but animals and insects are killed in order to produce those plants, no matter what. I used to think I was minimizing that by being mostly vegan, and I was, when you compare a vegan diet to eating animals who are fed grains. But when you compare a vegan diet to one that includes grassfed organic meat, it's not so clear. When I eat beef, I'm eating a very small part of a large animal, and the collateral damage to other animals and insects that comes along with that is minimal. In fact, eating grassfed beef from the ranch by my town is actually a good thing, since that ranch works hard to improve the ecology on their grazing land, which improves the habitat for all the animals who live there, not just the cattle. I guess what I'm saying is that I used to think it was really simple: if I didn't want to kill, I needed to live off of plants. But now I think that there isn't any way to avoid the karmic burden of killing in order to live, so you might as well take an honest look at the complexity of the situation and make the best choices you can. For me, those choices turned out to be pretty different from what I had imagined, but I feel that my personal integrity is better off for having gone through this process and having moved toward a different (more honest, more "real") dietary pattern. I also believe that taking life in a spirit of gratitude and reverence is very different from doing so in a spirit of denial and unconcern. I am so, so grateful every time I eat meat, and to me eating meat with that awareness is better than eating wheat or beans or whatever with no awareness of everything that has been sacrificed to put food on my plate. Your mileage may vary, of course. I'm just sharing what my experience has been.

 

jkg, I liked how you put it: "I have learned that I have been oh so judgmental and now that it is me weighing my ethics against what my body needs/wants, I am singing a different tune." That's a humbling realization, isn't it? I don't think I would have ever gone down this path if health issues hadn't pretty much forced me to, but actually I'm glad that they did. I think it's good for the soul to have to confront the idea that we might be fundamentally mistaken in our beliefs. Once in a while, at least. I wouldn't want to have to do it too often! lol

 

 

I don't kill spiders, but for an entirely different reason. Some very small part of my brain is convinced, however ridiculous, that if you smash a spider it will release some sort of pheromone that will tell all the other spiders in the world to come and kill you. lol.gif

You've made some really great points here. Another point that I've heard that resonated with me, was that if you care about humane treatment of animals, buying beans does nothing to support that. A better way to strike a blow at factory farms would be putting your money/consumer weight into supporting farms/business with humane and sustainable practices.

     And I think questing your beliefs is a great (albeit difficult) thing. If something is worth believing in, if should stand up to scrutiny. And sometimes beliefs are appropriate for their time, and sometimes they need updating. And admitting that you are wrong/mistaken/in need of change is really something modern people should do more. Personal growth is a great and humbling force and hardheadedness is it's enemy. For instance, in politics,  someone is seen to be "waffling(Sp?) on the issues" if they ever, in the history of their career, change their stance on a subject.  Shouldn't we be glad that a politician saw his mistake and corrected it, or grew with the times and circumstances instead of folding his hands, holding his breath, and stubbornly going down with the ship just because he once voted x on y?

At least is what I'm telling myself to psych myself up for dropping the bomb on my family about the whole "meat thing." ;)


 

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erratum-welcome to our little thread! Like you and bodhitree, I have a problem killing insects, too. I totally let the ants live in my house for a while by postponing spraying them and eventually they just went away, weird, huh? 

 

I craved the bone broth first, I think I wanted the bone broth even more than the meat--my body was telling me that I needed that! The good news is that you don't have to crack the bones, you can just throw them in a pot with a little vinegar or lemon juice, spices, etc. and simmer simmer simmer. The jello-consistency I have yet to achieve with chicken broth--I think it is like the holy grail of bone broth and if you do finally get it, by then you'd probably be pretty psyched about it!

 

I don't know about the dis-membering issue. I kinda forced myself to procure the meat and go through every step of cooking it rather than rely on de-boned chicken or asking my dh to handle it raw--I just really wanted this decision to be MINE, you know? I wanted to own my meat consumption. I felt the same way, that people should be willing to kill it if they want to eat it--I don't know if I could really do that, intellectually, but I always used to tell friends (like you said) 'if I was starving in the woods, I'd definitely kill an animal to eat it' but justifying my vegetarianism that I wasn't in a life or death situation--but maybe we are? I am eating this meat to sustain my own life. For me right now, I am understanding that it is life or death. I don't know if you dig Susun Weed, and this article is primarily about goat-keeping, but if you read through it, she has some really, really awesome insights about "giving death" that I have been pondering since reading it: http://www.susunweed.com/herbal_ezine/July10/healingwise.htm I am still thinking about it . . .

 

I think if I knew how, I would totally go quail-hunting or something to sustain our poultry consumption. We have been cooking a chicken about every other week (for 3-4 meals from each bird)--that's 24 chickens a year! Wow. Would I personally kill two chickens a month to feed my family? I don't know. But I think if dh or I could hunt geese or duck or quail or smth and stock up the freezer once a year, I would feel really good about it. I have friends that do that, and I've got mad respect for them. Plus, it's much cheaper than buying it at the store! 

 

I took dh to a ribs place today and had my first ribs, non-organic and all. The freedom I have to eat where/what I want is so rich, I really am luxuriating in it--not just ordering sides at a restaurant, kwim?

 

joy.gif to you all!


That was a great article. It made me tear up reading it. Thanks.

 

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  And I think questing your beliefs is a great (albeit difficult) thing. If something is worth believing in, if should stand up to scrutiny. And sometimes beliefs are appropriate for their time, and sometimes they need updating. And admitting that you are wrong/mistaken/in need of change is really something modern people should do more. Personal growth is a great and humbling force and hardheadedness is it's enemy. For instance, in politics,  someone is seen to be "waffling(Sp?) on the issues" if they ever, in the history of their career, change their stance on a subject.  Shouldn't we be glad that a politician saw his mistake and corrected it, or grew with the times and circumstances instead of folding his hands, holding his breath, and stubbornly going down with the ship just because he once voted x on y?

nod.gif So true. Very nicely put.
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#83 of 89 Old 04-06-2011, 06:47 PM
 
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Yay erratum! Welcome back to omnivorism. I'm so glad your fish was a good experience for you. eat.gif Yeah, I wouldn't be able to deal with the chicken with head and feet still attached. Maybe sometime in the future, but I'm not quite ready for that yet!


Living the good life and walking a path of peace with DH and DD (4/09)
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#84 of 89 Old 04-11-2011, 11:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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  So I did it! I cruised around the bacon aisle at the grocery store for a while, but I chickened out every time, like I was buying condoms or nudey mags :) 

 I am ROTFLMAO.gifat this! I totally agree. I felt like that when going into our local natural meats store--like I was going into an "adult bookstore" or something. I still feel kinda weird when checking out of the hfs with meat, like somehow the checkers know I "waffled" or smth.

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That was a great article. It made me tear up reading it. Thanks.

 

thumb.gif Right! I have been thinking about it ever since.

 

 

Oh, people, we have chickens! They are in my downstairs bathroom right now while we build their new home. We have been calling them chocobos ;) I hope that they are all female. I don't want to deal with either giving a rooster away or biting the metaphorical bullet--my mom says if one's a boy, just name him "Dumpling" eyesroll.gif but seriously I don't know if I'm ready to "give death" yet. Anyway, we should start getting some eggs late summer/early fall!

 

I am checking out that herd share--I'm actually excited to try cow milk again! A friend has a little farm and is doing a work trade for produce and may have goat milk available, too. So we will make feta or smth, I'm not sure I'd like straight goat milk, but maybe the kids will.

 

Dh and I are getting to the nitty gritty about how much meat we think we'll eat in the upcoming year and narrowing down farmers to go through--I've noticed that the cost for pastured vs. "natural" (being some amount of feed lot existence) is not prohibitive here for us to buy pastured--being like $30 or so for a bulk purchase. Gosh, meat is expensive! Sticking to $500 a year seems difficult if you eat meat frequently and buy quality. We have been eating meat maybe 2-3x/wk, and I have to say that I notice I feel hungry a lot more often and sooner after meals on veg days. So I would like to be comfortable in knowing that there's plenty in the freezer from one animal, kwim?

 

Anyway . . . .......I bought 3 squid steaks! They were like a dollar a piece. I figure we could slice them into whatsit, calamari strips or find a recipe online and grill them . . .Idk, I just want to be really open-minded and try new things, because formerly all meat was gross so now I'm trying to let go of pre-conceptions regarding food.

 

 

 

 


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#85 of 89 Old 04-12-2011, 08:58 AM
 
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I just recently found this thread and while I still haven't read through the whole thing, so many of you have so succinctly expressed what I have been thinking about the past couple months. I am so sad that my vegan diet dies not seem right for me any more. Part of me feels like perhaps I am not trying hard enough to make it work, but honestly, I no linger have the energy...and that is a big part of my problem. I am weak, tired, unmotivated, and my skin has felt like sandpaper. I just started letting some dairy and eggs back into my diet, and it seems to be helping with my skin (I'm guessing the fats?). I don't anticipate being ready to eat meat ever again, but in some way I wish I could. I have learned that I have been oh so judgmental and now that it is me weighing my ethics against what my body needs/wants, I am singing a different tune.


Hi Jen!!!  Just wanted to say hey, and isn't it funny that our food journeys have been so parallel?  Just wanted you to know that I'm cheering you on, no matter what path you choose.  Adding meat back to our diet has been a good choice for us, but in many ways it has been an identity crisis.  It's all change.  Change is hard, but good.  I'm still trying to harmonize all the different paths of wellness that I aspire to.  But we each have to make our own song, right?  Hugs!


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#86 of 89 Old 04-13-2011, 12:03 PM
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Holy WOW, Chessa, YES!! This thread has been very comforting to me and I so wish we didn't live hundreds of miles apart so we could discuss this in person. I am having a really hard time with it. Have your kids gone non-veg too? I made chicken Parmesan one day (I still can't bring myself to eat it, baby steps I guess) and my oldest wanted to know why we were eating that, and then why did I decide I wasn't going to. I did not have a good answer and talked in circles. greensad.gif. Ugh. However, they LOVED it and they actually have color in their faces again. So I think I am on the right path. Now just to figure it out for myself...
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#87 of 89 Old 04-13-2011, 07:41 PM
 
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Holy WOW, Chessa, YES!! This thread has been very comforting to me and I so wish we didn't live hundreds of miles apart so we could discuss this in person. I am having a really hard time with it. Have your kids gone non-veg too? I made chicken Parmesan one day (I still can't bring myself to eat it, baby steps I guess) and my oldest wanted to know why we were eating that, and then why did I decide I wasn't going to. I did not have a good answer and talked in circles. greensad.gif. Ugh. However, they LOVED it and they actually have color in their faces again. So I think I am on the right path. Now just to figure it out for myself...


Yeah, we've all jumped on/off the respective bandwagons. redface.gif  It was some interesting conversation at first, to be sure.  We mainly did it to see if it would help my DH deal with food sensitivities (I think he has leaky gut basically).  The jury is still out whether it is helping, but it doesn't seem to be hurting him or making him worse, and he's no longer saying things like "I think the carrots set me off"  - it seemed like a new vegetarian item a week was making him react and I was starting to pull my hair out trying to meal plan! 

 

Ham is a big hit around here with everyone.  Everyone more or less tolerates chicken (the tofu of meat, IMHO).  I can really get into a good burger, my DH still has mental blocks on red meat but will tolerate it (just not relish it like I do!).  I'd say I've had the easiest transition back.  I just feel fuller, like I'm not hungry all the time or constantly eating dairy to fill me up (still eating dairy, just not as my main protein source).  We eat a LOT of eggs, too.  I'm rolling with it. We went pretty heavy on the meat the last two weeks - we tried grain free for DH for two weeks to see if it had any effect (it didn't - and it's a MAJOR pain and really expensive to do). I'm finding now that I'm craving some of my old veg standbys again.  It's like I had to go off the meat deep-end for a while, get satiated, and now I'm finding a happy medium.  It's been an adventure in meal planning, to be sure!

 

Silas says really funny stuff like, "Poor chicken....oh well, it had a good long life!" chomp chomp chomp lol.gif

 


Chessa , mama to Silas T (6/06) , wife to Chad . Welcome August Emerson! 2/8/10
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#88 of 89 Old 04-16-2011, 09:14 AM
 
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It's so nice to talk to people who get it when i say I'm embarrassed to be seen shopping for meat or eating it in public... feels like driving past a synagogue on Saturday to me!

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#89 of 89 Old 04-16-2011, 12:58 PM
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It's so nice to talk to people who get it when i say I'm embarrassed to be seen shopping for meat or eating it in public... feels like driving past a synagogue on Saturday to me!


I know what you mean!! I feel like a "closeted" dairy consumer. I find myself buying eggs and dairy and hiding them under other items in case I see anyone I know. How do you go about explaining your change of heart?
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