Do you feed your guests organic foods if you yourself eat organic food? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 04-30-2011, 11:37 AM
 
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Nowhere does the OP say that only the guests got nonorganic while the hosts ate organic. I'd like that clarified before I voice an opinion.
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Old 04-30-2011, 12:13 PM
 
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i think that maybe what your brother did was a bit on the tacky side... however, to answer the question truthfully, if we have a party, i will absolutely buy stuff like non organic ranch dressing and 'bad' stuff like that to make dips & such.  there's no way we could feed party guests organic stuff, and plus, i think for the most part, the 'bad' junk food is kind of the naughty fun of party food.  that's a different scenario than a dinner with just another couple or two.  in that situation, we'd serve what we ourselves would eat-- if we have organic or local stuff, that's what would get cooked, but even then, i might use non organic canned cherries to make a pie or something like that.  if i knew the people we were feeding were conscious about that stuff, i would probably offer an explaination first, but not like HEY you're not good enough to get the good stuff, homie ;)


 

 


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Old 04-30-2011, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by askew View Post





Really? People choose this school not only for the wonderful teachers and farm like campus, but because they serve an all organic vegetarian lunch, family style, to the kids. It is a Montessori school, and they are big on table manners and practical life lessons. The chickens they raise on the campus are cage free and fed organic. The vegetable garden is organic, the kids compost their waste. To me, bringing a non organic snack seems out of step with why people choose the school. And for the record, they request organic fruits and vegetable that come in. They don't demand it. They even send a list home of the top 12 produce items to buy organic; the items which have the highest pesticide residue. 

ok well I missed the part where you said all that...i was thinking like, a typical public school.mischievous.gif
 

 

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Old 04-30-2011, 12:59 PM
 
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This is a really interesting point, crunchy mommy, thanks for bringing it up. It highlights an unexamined assumption. I've been stressing about putting meat on the table precisely because I think it makes for a better quality meal. I'm an ex-vegetarian (but never for health reasons) so I could easily put together a vegetarian meal. But honestly (and I'm not arguing with you, just revealing my thought process) I think pasta is very bad for us, so my worry about putting meat on my guest's table is based on wanting to provide them a good meal along the lines of something I would eat. I could easily put a bowl of pasta on the table and tear up a salad and be done with it, but this would actually be an example of feeding guests a lower quality of food (imho) that I would not normally eat.

Besides which, I'm grain-free now, so pasta and rice and such, if I served them, would be quite literally things I would not eat.


Good point... We eat gluten-free & aim to eat low grain (not always successful with that) so I get where you're coming from. I have a bit of a personal hierarchy for "healthy food" which sometimes I forget others don't necessarily share!! From worst to best, mine goes something like:

anything artificial, hydrogenated, HFCS, etc.
conventionally grown meat, dairy, etc.
processed grains (white bread etc.)
organic & ethically raised animal products
grains
fruits
beans
veggies, nuts, seeds

So on my hierarchy, whole grain pasta would be much better than conventional meat, but I can totally see how on someone else's, meat (organic or not) is preferable & even essential... I guess the bottom line would be meeting your guests where they're at (and trying to figure out THEIR hierarchy). And also, like a pp mentioned, some people enjoy really indulging in otherwise 'unhealthy' foods when it comes to a special occasion... wow I guess you really have to know a lot about your guests before you invite them over... lol

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Old 05-01-2011, 08:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ldavis24 View Post

I think I'd go insane without my black beans and rice...Laohaire, I would love to go grain free but B&R is one of my FAVORITE things to eat...How did you do it!


Eh... wish i could give you a 3 step program but it did involve some struggle. For a month I ate almost the exact same thing over and over because I couldn't figure it out. Now I can easily think of things to eat but it's so $$$$ for the meat (which I really want, at least once a day). So I'm seriously straining (well, quite broken, actually) my budget just to feed myself, hence my stress about feeding others since I'm way over budget as it is. Grains are cheap, so replacing them is hard on the wallet. I assume that their cheapness is how grains became the staple of our diets in the first place (which is odd if you think about it - since grains MUST be processed for humans to eat; we are not ruminants). Despite how difficult it was in the beginning for me to make the switch, the benefits were so strong (and when I fall off the wagon I have to pay for it so much) it's actually pretty easy to keep going. I look at some grains and immediately picture the price I'd pay if I ate it, and it's just not worth it. There is a grain-free/paleo/etc thread going on in Nutrition.

 



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Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by laohaire View Post




This is a really interesting point, crunchy mommy, thanks for bringing it up. It highlights an unexamined assumption. I've been stressing about putting meat on the table precisely because I think it makes for a better quality meal. I'm an ex-vegetarian (but never for health reasons) so I could easily put together a vegetarian meal. But honestly (and I'm not arguing with you, just revealing my thought process) I think pasta is very bad for us, so my worry about putting meat on my guest's table is based on wanting to provide them a good meal along the lines of something I would eat. I could easily put a bowl of pasta on the table and tear up a salad and be done with it, but this would actually be an example of feeding guests a lower quality of food (imho) that I would not normally eat.

Besides which, I'm grain-free now, so pasta and rice and such, if I served them, would be quite literally things I would not eat.




Good point... We eat gluten-free & aim to eat low grain (not always successful with that) so I get where you're coming from. I have a bit of a personal hierarchy for "healthy food" which sometimes I forget others don't necessarily share!! From worst to best, mine goes something like:

anything artificial, hydrogenated, HFCS, etc.
conventionally grown meat, dairy, etc.
processed grains (white bread etc.)
organic & ethically raised animal products
grains
fruits
beans
veggies, nuts, seeds

So on my hierarchy, whole grain pasta would be much better than conventional meat, but I can totally see how on someone else's, meat (organic or not) is preferable & even essential... I guess the bottom line would be meeting your guests where they're at (and trying to figure out THEIR hierarchy). And also, like a pp mentioned, some people enjoy really indulging in otherwise 'unhealthy' foods when it comes to a special occasion... wow I guess you really have to know a lot about your guests before you invite them over... lol


Yeah, that is true. My dinner guests are organic (but I think they don't require it as guests like my boss does), and the woman is dairy-free (which, as an ex-vegetarian-but-not vegan, was a little hard for me to solve since all my old recipes had dairy). And unfortunately I guess I recently became one of those pain-in-the-neck guests being grain free but so far I have not asked anyone to accommodate it. I would have had a heart attack trying to feed a grain-free-dairy-free guest a few months ago. Now I actually have several good meal ideas for those.

 

And yes, we all have hierarchies, and mine have changed over time. I guess that highlights the objection the OP has - that she and BIL ostensibly have hte same hierarchy, but he broke it to serve her. If she knew he had a different hierarchy and organic food was not high priority for him, I'm sure she would have felt differently. But if I had a guest who ate like me and we both knew it, and I served spaghetti, that would be just odd to say the least :)

 


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Old 05-01-2011, 11:28 AM
 
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I assume that their cheapness is how grains became the staple of our diets in the first place

 

 

I beg to differ--

 

grains are far more easy to store and keep for longer periods of time unlike meat, while fish can be salted / dried the process to do so for meat is far more involved

 

also in the long run to grow a crop vs keeping cattle is much easier also transportation of grains (seed) is easier as well

 

crops vs livestock feeds far more in a shorter time frame


 

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Old 05-01-2011, 11:44 AM
 
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I guess grains are cheap FOR those reasons. I don't think we're differing :)


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Old 05-01-2011, 01:23 PM
 
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practical and sustainable does not mean cheap

 

the sudden new tread of grain free is extremely troubling to me and has no historic bases nor to we have substantial information to understand the long term effects


 

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Old 05-01-2011, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

practical and sustainable does not mean cheap

 

the sudden new tread of grain free is extremely troubling to me and has no historic bases nor to we have substantial information to understand the long term effects



I think a lot of mamas here will point out that eating grain free has been the norm for our species for a lot longer than we've been eating grains... There is a lot of historic basis for going grain free. Another mama can jump in here but in my head that was a part of going paleo primal I thought...I have a migraine I can't think properly right now.

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Old 05-01-2011, 02:58 PM
 
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Ok, I'll probably get flamed for this but I have the opposite problem. I was raised eating conventionally and cheaply. Spaghetti, beans and rice, casseroles, some chicken and hamburgers, canned tuna, etc. While I strive to feed myself better, and I strive to give mostly organic fruits, vegetables, and grains to my son (he doesn't eat meat), we don't eat organic all the time and have a very, very tight budget. However, DH's friends and coworkers are what I would call upper middle class yuppie granolas (and lest I offend, you should know that I sort of strive to be like this). When they have potluck or when he has them over, everything has to be flawlessly free-range and sustainably organic (these are people who specifically ask about the origin the food and won't touch it if it comes from Safeway), which means shopping at the one very expensive health food store in town (we do not have any chain health-food stores like Whole Foods) and spending a ton of money. I put up with it because I love my husband and don't want him to be embarrassed, but frankly, this kind of food snobbery really irritates me.

 

This could be a myth, but I've heard that the Dali Lama happily eats whatever his guests serve him, because he says to not enjoy any meal served to him as a guest would be doing more harm than any harm that was already done in the preparation of the meal.


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Old 05-01-2011, 06:04 PM
 
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practical and sustainable does not mean cheap

 

the sudden new tread of grain free is extremely troubling to me and has no historic bases nor to we have substantial information to understand the long term effects


There is plenty about ag practices in the grain industry that make it non-sustainable. Like mono-cropping.

As for the "evidence"... Man has been around about 2.5 million years. Agriculture has been around about 10 thousand. If grain-free is so unhealthy how on earth did man survive the intervening 2.4 million years? By contrast the current way of eating has been around about 200 yrs (refined sugar/flour, canning, etc.) or less (trans-fats, HFCS). And in that time (the 10K, not the 200), we've seen all sorts of diet related diseases that did not exist prior (from scurvy, beriberi, osteoperosis, rickets to the more modern diabetes, celiac, arthereosclerosis, etc).

What exactly do you think grains bring to the diet that can't be found elsewhere?

I really dont understand the knee-jerk negative reaction so many people have to eating grain-free. Yes, it can be very difficult in our society, but that doesnt make it unhealthy in the slightest. Do you have the same objections to raw vegan? They typically aren't eating grains either. And they don't have nearly the history behind them.

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Old 05-01-2011, 08:21 PM
 
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Haven't read through this fully....

We came up against this just the other day. We're planning a party (which may end up with somewhere between 8-30 people, I know big range, but I haven't gotten back most of the RSVPs), and were trying to do a BBQ themed party. Well, BBQ usually means lots of meat, AND cuts of meat we never buy because they are too expensive pastured. (Steaks and stuff, we buy ground and roasts for stew, and whole chickens, and that's it). We thought about getting organic non-pastured steaks but decided that we would just do pastured but do sliders, so that it was a) ground and thus cheaper), and b) would have less emphasis on meat. I'm guessing with sliders people will eat less meat and more of the delicious sides we will have lots of. (and honestly, if 30 meat eaters come, then we will be doing organic non pastured, because that is just way beyond our range. AND I know most of the people coming wouldn't be serving us pastured meat in return, (or eat it themselves), so in that sense it's not that weird).

And for our wedding, if it came down to it, I have NO problem serving organic but not pastured meat. It's more important to me to be able to share a nice meal, and to serve the best we can afford, but we can barely afford to feed ourselves the quality food we eat, we can't afford to serve it to lots of people. (But if I have a single family or two over for dinner, then I will serve them the same quality we eat. It may or may not have meat, since we don't eat much meat, but I wouldn't get lower quality for a small group)

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Old 05-01-2011, 10:15 PM
 
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Guests in our home get what we would personally eat.   


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Old 05-02-2011, 05:07 AM
 
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As for the "evidence"... Man has been around about 2.5 million years. Agriculture has been around about 10 thousand. If grain-free is so unhealthy how on earth did man survive the intervening 2.4 million years? By contrast the current way of eating has been around about 200 yrs (refined sugar/flour, canning, etc.) or less (trans-fats, HFCS). And in that time (the 10K, not the 200), we've seen all sorts of diet related diseases that did not exist prior (from scurvy, beriberi, osteoperosis, rickets to the more modern diabetes, celiac, arthereosclerosis, etc).

What exactly do you think grains bring to the diet that can't be found elsewhere?

 

Please do provide the evidence- since we only have a period of time of recorded history and we do not have evidence to accuretly know what man died of prior to recorded history, you must know something the rest of us do not.

There is a great difference in man that walked on all fours and up right man and gut development during this time.

To state that the above mentioned diseases did not exist prior to recorded history is purely inaccurate.

 

This is about organic (and meat in general)- grasses are grains (achenes /poaceae-gramineae ). And there is a distinction between grains and cereal grasses. Unless you know of tests that are testing people for "grass" allergies please do provide this information-a celica does not accurately do so, it does not test for the allergies for over 4000+ species. It is truly false to be grain-free and still eat meat and dairy-you are what the animal eats. Alfalfa is not a grass yet is it called so by many farmers and people eat it thinking they are eating a "grass". Many organic "meats" are also finished off with grains but again grass is a grain.

 

I prefer to get my macronutrients, mocronutriednts, and phytonutrients from several sources and that included grains and the animals that eat them - I like the serotonins and want them in my diet!  NOTE- I am unable to obtain all from other sources as only few select fruits give enough serotonins.

 

Since man has been eating grains on a regular bases since recorded history I have yet to see a peer review study showing the long term benefits of not doing so (that means no meat of dairy diet).

 

I serve what I eat and I also think it is rude to not do so.


 

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Old 05-02-2011, 07:32 AM
 
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That was my point too, I serve what I eat and I have recently stopped eating grains.

 

I won't argue food with you or anyone, because it's the same as religion. Everyone has their beliefs and experiences. I was pretty surprised at the very sudden and very noticeable benefits I observed when I stopped eating grains. There was a period of adjustment while I figured out what to eat, but that was because I ate a grain-based diet before and had to come up with totally new approaches (not to mention the financial issue). I feel stronger and more stable now than I have in years, and people who have no idea about my changes are noticing how healthy I'm starting to look. It's certainly possible that grains are good for most people but not me, or that only certain grains are bothering me and not others, but I certainly don't feel the slightest bit deprived nutrient- or macronutrient-wise, and thus I'm quite happy not eating grains.

 

What I really care about is that people are thoughtful and mindful about their food choices, and I would be most happy if the world thought more like you, serenbat. I'm not inclined to argue but support my sister in her mindfulness. I care a lot about food ethics, sustainability and health. I've come to choose slightly different things, but it's all cool.


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Old 05-02-2011, 08:02 AM
 
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Guests in our home get what we would personally eat.   



Same here. 

 

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Old 05-02-2011, 10:46 PM
 
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Our preschool is the same. Organic foods are requested for parent-provided snack and there is a long list of "food" that can be brought for snack or for the children's lunches, if they eat lunch at school.


 

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Old 05-03-2011, 03:10 PM
 
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If we won't eat it, we won't serve it. We eat a mostly organic whole foods diet. If we have company we usually serve less expensive meals (hamburgers, whole grain pasta, egg bake, whatever), but still within what we will eat. I also have no problem asking people to bring a dish.

 

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