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#31 of 47 Old 08-28-2013, 06:19 PM
 
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I have to agree that WIC can be extremely helpful for some families. As for the milk, most families on WIC couldn't afford organic milk anyways. There are plenty of alternatives to the processed cold cereals, such as cream of wheat or oatmeal. There are lots of veggie options, and frankly the non-organic thing isn't an issue for me because I can't afford to buy organic without WIC anyways. Sure it is tough if you make specific dietary choices that don't allow you to use certain vouchers because you won't eat the product, but how is that worse than not getting the voucher at all?

 

As to the ignorance issue, unfortunately not everyone is curious and interested in educating themselves. Information has to be presented to them in an accessible way, or they just don't know it and won't seek it out. It's hard not to judge people making these decisions, but we all have our personality strengths and weaknesses, and challenges in life. What bothers me isn't the individuals, but our whole society that doesn't try to better itself to educate the whole. Those who do know better, but don't make good choices that affect their children and families are the people that bother me. If it was more "cool" to actually care about nutrition and the types of food that we are given access to, then I think things would be much better.

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#32 of 47 Old 08-28-2013, 07:34 PM
 
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Some people truly don't get it and some do but don't care. I have a friend who is a mix of both. She just doesn't care enough to learn so she remains ignorant.

When her oldest was in kindy she would throw a Lunchables in his backpack every day. After a few weeks, the teacher pointed out to her that they weren't really very healthy due in part to the high sodium content. So instead she made a sandwich of cheap deli ham on white bread and added a Capri Sun and bag of Doritos. And was proud of it, like she had actually made an improvement!

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#33 of 47 Old 08-28-2013, 07:42 PM
 
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As to the ignorance issue, unfortunately not everyone is curious and interested in educating themselves. Information has to be presented to them in an accessible way, or they just don't know it and won't seek it out. It's hard not to judge people making these decisions, but we all have our personality strengths and weaknesses, and challenges in life. What bothers me isn't the individuals, but our whole society that doesn't try to better itself to educate the whole. Those who do know better, but don't make good choices that affect their children and families are the people that bother me. If it was more "cool" to actually care about nutrition and the types of food that we are given access to, then I think things would be much better.

 

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Some people truly don't get it and some do but don't care. I have a friend who is a mix of both. She just doesn't care enough to learn so she remains ignorant.

When her oldest was in kindy she would throw a Lunchables in his backpack every day. After a few weeks, the teacher pointed out to her that they weren't really very healthy due in part to the high sodium content. So instead she made a sandwich of cheap deli ham on white bread and added a Capri Sun and bag of Doritos. And was proud of it, like she had actually made an improvement!

 

I was having a conversation w/ a friend today.  She's gluten intolerant & has issues w/ dairy.  She recently was at a frineds to celebrate both their birthdays, with a lot of food that she hasn't eaten in a long time.  She ate a bunch of it which had gluten & dairy in it.  The next day she was lethargic, foggy, felt like sitting on the couch, doing nothing all day.  She had no motivation.  As we were talking, I said that listening to how she felt afterwards, I had to wonder how many people out in the general public, feel like this on a regular basis because of what they eat.  How many people look like lazy couch potatoes, but wouldn't be if they weren't eating things that actually turned them into couch potatoes because of what it did to their minds & bodies?  So, reading these replies reminded me of that.  I wonder how many people are truly paralyzed?

 

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#34 of 47 Old 08-29-2013, 06:11 AM
 
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I didn't really understand how bad the majority of peoples food habits were and just how many people are obese until our county fair two weeks ago. I mean everyone eats crapat the fair but I was way shocked at the number of familes where every single person no matter what age in the famuly was obese. Its sad.

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#35 of 47 Old 08-29-2013, 06:31 AM
 
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Even if people do have an interest in feeding their family better, the stress of poverty can be a overwhelming.  We had the opportunity to help a family that was living on the edge (as in no money food, zero, on a regular basis).  The mother did an amazing job with what she had but after working full-time and caring for the children, there wasn't enough physical and emotional energy at the end of the day to expand her cooking skills.  We stocked their freezer with meat (beef and pork) that she had no idea how to cook.  I could see the stress on her face as I was explaining how easy it was to put a roast in the crock pot.  


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#36 of 47 Old 08-29-2013, 02:01 PM
 
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I have to chime in about this and feel that I have an angle similar to mamarhu's. I am a nutritionist (& registered dietitian). The ignorance about basic nutrition info is unbelievable. The sad fact is that most people don't know how to cook and unfortunately our fast food/processed food society is enabling this to go on.....
With that said, there are programs (albeit small and way too few & far between) including the WIC program that can help. It's unfortunate that my3beasties had such a horrible experience with the program, as this was not my experience AT ALL. I grew up very poor (but with loving parents, mind you who did their very best) with younger sibs who were on the WIC program. Yes, there was a lot of juice- but my mom bought tomato juice to cook with. Yes, there was a lot of dairy, but dairy is a minimally processed food that does remain an affordable source of protein. My mom main homemade yogurt (which she learned how to do from a WIC nutrition workshop). Yes, there was processed cereal, but my mom bought old-fashioned oats that stretched much further than a box of Cheerios. And the beans were a mainstay in our diets. I remember tuna cakes, and at times, the carrots were the only fresh produce at the table. The nutritionist (who did have a nutrition degree but was not a registered dietitian) allowed me to shadow her when I expressed interest in becoming a nutrition professional. The program isn't perfect, but has improved greatly even today and participants can now get fresh produce- lots of fruits and veggies. As well as buy produce from the local farmers market (this was actually part of the program when my family participated, but our little community out in Hoo-hoo Holler did not have a farmers market).
I'm not saying that the program isn't without it's problems, but for my family it was very helpful- such a blessing during difficult times.

Sierramtngirl, I'm so glad you had a mom who was able to make good choices with the WIC foods!! It is definitely a blessing during difficult times, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was ungrateful at all for the help it provided.  I guess I was being critical of the way our WIC program was - they did not provide the kind of education workshops that would help people make healthier choices with the foods given, and instead steered us toward processed foods. At the time, there was no option for farmer's markets or other fresh produce...seems they have expanded the program over the last few years, which is great!

 

I did a lot of creative cooking with the WIC foods we could eat, and when it came to the point that we could hardly get anything on the list because of our allergies and intolerances, I felt it wasn't worthwhile continuing with the program, especially with how condescending these individuals were about our different needs and unwilling to provide alternatives for us. It would have been easy enough to say "Oh, you can't drink milk, so try rice milk instead", or "If you can't eat tuna, how about canned salmon" but they wouldn't allow any substitutions or even offer suggestions. I couldn't afford much, so our fridge was usually very empty, but even still, we wound up being healthier in the long run. I am very glad to see they have improved WIC so much...even though it didn't work for us, I know first-hand it can be such a help to those in need.


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#37 of 47 Old 08-29-2013, 02:12 PM
 
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I was having a conversation w/ a friend today.  She's gluten intolerant & has issues w/ dairy.  She recently was at a frineds to celebrate both their birthdays, with a lot of food that she hasn't eaten in a long time.  She ate a bunch of it which had gluten & dairy in it.  The next day she was lethargic, foggy, felt like sitting on the couch, doing nothing all day.  She had no motivation.  As we were talking, I said that listening to how she felt afterwards, I had to wonder how many people out in the general public, feel like this on a regular basis because of what they eat.  How many people look like lazy couch potatoes, but wouldn't be if they weren't eating things that actually turned them into couch potatoes because of what it did to their minds & bodies?  So, reading these replies reminded me of that.  I wonder how many people are truly paralyzed?

 

Sus

I felt like this the first 28 years of my life, and couldn't figure out why! It wasn't until my DS was 2 that I found out he has celiac and a ton of food intolerances, and so do I. Once we changed our diet, I felt like a different person! For the first time in my life, I had energy, no digestive problems, and wasn't in pain.  DS was all of a sudden a healthy child, where before, he was so sickly it broke my heart. 

 

When you eat gluten and all these allergens every meal of your life, you get used to it and feeling like crap all the time seems "normal".  I've often wondered  the same thing: how many people are out there who are overweight couch potatoes, and in chronic pain with all kinds of health problems, because they have undiagnosed celiac or food allergies?? I bet the number is staggering. The problem is, you become addicted to these junk foods, and getting your body on a clean diet is just as hard as getting clean from some kind of drug...so I think many people, even if they realize it, don't have the willpower to kick the junk food habit.


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#38 of 47 Old 08-29-2013, 02:43 PM
 
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I didn't read all of the posts... I scanned but couldn't bring myself to indulge in all of the criticism--open and veiled. My heart aches for the countless moms who are doing their best but are having their choices strewn on a forum without their permission for strangers to "tisk-tisk" at, or worse. And I feel saddened not so much for the "obese kids at the fair" who were enjoying their corn dogs, but for the mamas posting here who were more concerned about what other families looked like and were eating than enjoying the outing with her own family.

Instead of openly criticizing others, I hope that I can teach my infant daughter to love people and reach out to them from a sincere place to help them where they're at. For example, sharing healthy snacks with the "obese" kids at school, or inviting the obese kids to play fun games at recess. Isn't that a better legacy than putting up one's nose in disgust or veiling that disgust with pity??

And for the record, my mom is overweight and we've always eaten phenomenally (read: wild game, fresh veggies, and almost no fast food). It tears her heart out to be glared at and judged by strangers. And my husband is extremely fit and healthy and was fed almost entirely junk food just about from birth. Just a reminder that no one can accurately judge a book by its cover.

Well, that's my two cents. The post that stuck out to me the most on this topic was the first poster's (mamahru). She spoke from actual experience--not as the critical neighbor or judgmental stranger--as the person genuinely seeking to educate and empathize with mamas. I appreciate her sharing her experience and insight into such a complex topic!
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#39 of 47 Old 08-30-2013, 06:01 AM
 
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Sierramtngirl, I'm so glad you had a mom who was able to make good choices with the WIC foods!! It is definitely a blessing during difficult times, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was ungrateful at all for the help it provided.  I guess I was being critical of the way our WIC program was - they did not provide the kind of education workshops that would help people make healthier choices with the foods given, and instead steered us toward processed foods. At the time, there was no option for farmer's markets or other fresh produce...seems they have expanded the program over the last few years, which is great!

 

I did a lot of creative cooking with the WIC foods we could eat, and when it came to the point that we could hardly get anything on the list because of our allergies and intolerances, I felt it wasn't worthwhile continuing with the program, especially with how condescending these individuals were about our different needs and unwilling to provide alternatives for us. It would have been easy enough to say "Oh, you can't drink milk, so try rice milk instead", or "If you can't eat tuna, how about canned salmon" but they wouldn't allow any substitutions or even offer suggestions. I couldn't afford much, so our fridge was usually very empty, but even still, we wound up being healthier in the long run. I am very glad to see they have improved WIC so much...even though it didn't work for us, I know first-hand it can be such a help to those in need.

 

Concerning what I bolded, WIC was started as a farm subsidy program.  In the simplest sense, it was used to keep the dairy prices up first, providing food aid second which is probably why alternative foods (rice milk as an example) aren't offered/permitted, it doesn't help the dairy industry.  Someone correct me please if I am wrong, I volunteered with the program but that was 20+ years ago.


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#40 of 47 Old 08-30-2013, 08:12 AM
 
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I'm not sure anyone was sticking their nose up in the air or anything. I think most or all of us are legitimately shocked that people feed their kids this way, ie: giving a 19 month old up to 6 cans of coke a day. Giving him that much pop has nothing to do with being poor (which they are not) or not knowing that that is bad for him. And I wasn't saying that people were wrong for letting their kids have corn dogs at the fair, I was saying that I was surprised at the number of families where all the people were obese. I'm not talking about heavier person who is healthy, I'm talking about obesity. I don't think sharing a healthy snack with an overweight kid at school is going to make their parents wake up and stop giving them junk food, for whatever reason they have, for every meal. The 'everybody just needs a hug, and everything will be better' attitude just doesn't work and having a greater and greater number of people raising kids with terrible eating habits is going to effect everybody.

 

I think not watching the video, skimming posts, and then saying that we are all bashing fat people and being snobs is a little bit judgemental.

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#41 of 47 Old 08-31-2013, 08:37 AM
 
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I grew up in the 70's in an upper-middle class suburb of NYC.  My parents were both Irish immigrants who grew up on rural farms.  My mother knew how to cook, understood nutrition basics, but just didn't care enough to provide us with homecooked meals.  She was usually drunk when we came home from school.  If she was half in the bag , we'd actually drive to get Chinese take-out, pizza, McDonald's or on Wednesdays she would take advantage of the "Wednesday is Sundae " at Carvel.  Sure, we thought it was great.  If she was too drunk to drive she'd open a bag of frozen chicken and veggies , put it in a pot and add water. If she was passed out, my older brother would make pasta and add a can of sauce.  We ate homeooked meals on the weekends when my dad was home.  Meat and potatoes, Irish stew, good, hearty farm food.  Nevertheless, when I went to college and lived with a few women in a rented house off campus I discovered many fruits and vegetables I never knew existed.  I borrowed their Moosewood Cookbooks and taught myself basic nutrition and how to cook nutritious meals.  I started eating correctly for the first time in my life and I was furious at my mother for her neglect.

Sometimes you just have to face the facts that certain parents don't give a crap about their children's welfare.

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#42 of 47 Old 08-31-2013, 08:43 AM
 
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I grew up in the 70's in an upper-middle class suburb of NYC.  My parents were both Irish immigrants who grew up on rural farms.  My mother knew how to cook, understood nutrition basics, but just didn't care enough to provide us with homecooked meals.  She was usually drunk when we came home from school.  If she was half in the bag , we'd actually drive to get Chinese take-out, pizza, McDonald's or on Wednesdays she would take advantage of the "Wednesday is Sundae " at Carvel.  Sure, we thought it was great.  If she was too drunk to drive she'd open a bag of frozen chicken and veggies , put it in a pot and add water. If she was passed out, my older brother would make pasta and add a can of sauce.  We ate homeooked meals on the weekends when my dad was home.  Meat and potatoes, Irish stew, good, hearty farm food.  Nevertheless, when I went to college and lived with a few women in a rented house off campus I discovered many fruits and vegetables I never knew existed.  I borrowed their Moosewood Cookbooks and taught myself basic nutrition and how to cook nutritious meals.  I started eating correctly for the first time in my life and I was furious at my mother for her neglect.

Sometimes you just have to face the facts that certain parents don't give a crap about their children's welfare.

Sorry that happened to you. It's great you were able to learn nutrition at a later time. That's how I was. We ate fruits and vegetables and home cooked meals but they were still mostly part of the SADiet. I was "healthy" but had some health problems come to light after graduating high school and needed to kind of "reboot" my diet to solve a lot of health issues. I only recently learned about real nutrition and am greatful I don't have have picky eaters. :eat


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#43 of 47 Old 08-31-2013, 09:29 AM
 
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I'm not sure anyone was sticking their nose up in the air or anything. I think most or all of us are legitimately shocked that people feed their kids this way, ie: giving a 19 month old up to 6 cans of coke a day. Giving him that much pop has nothing to do with being poor (which they are not) or not knowing that that is bad for him. And I wasn't saying that people were wrong for letting their kids have corn dogs at the fair, I was saying that I was surprised at the number of families where all the people were obese. I'm not talking about heavier person who is healthy, I'm talking about obesity. I don't think sharing a healthy snack with an overweight kid at school is going to make their parents wake up and stop giving them junk food, for whatever reason they have, for every meal. The 'everybody just needs a hug, and everything will be better' attitude just doesn't work and having a greater and greater number of people raising kids with terrible eating habits is going to effect everybody.

I think not watching the video, skimming posts, and then saying that we are all bashing fat people and being snobs is a little bit judgemental.

I read all the posts here and yes, there is some thick, heavy judgement being passed. But sadly, that doesn't surprise me in the least because the mommy wars have proven to be quite prevalent here in recent years.

As to your example of the 18 month old who drinks 6 cans of Coke a day - first could you point out to me where that was mentioned (I seemed to have missed that) and second please tell me that no one here really thinks that is a true tale. A young child consuming 72 ounces of carbonated beverage would have a difficult time having enough room in their stomach to consume much else. Sadly overdramatizing situations like this only polarize people even more.
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#44 of 47 Old 08-31-2013, 11:20 AM
 
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As to your example of the 18 month old who drinks 6 cans of Coke a day - first could you point out to me where that was mentioned (I seemed to have missed that) and second please tell me that no one here really thinks that is a true tale. A young child consuming 72 ounces of carbonated beverage would have a difficult time having enough room in their stomach to consume much else. Sadly overdramatizing situations like this only polarize people even more.

The 18 month old who drinks up to six cans of Coke a day was a direct reference to the video in the first post. He didn't consume much else (and when he did, it was fast food or junk and he obviously had major sleep issues from the caffeine/sugar that he was bombarded with daily).

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#45 of 47 Old 08-31-2013, 06:35 PM
 
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Why does this always come up that discussing something is judgmental? I thought these posts have been quite fair.

As for the whole "not my problem" part, it is everyone's problem. These children can't speak for themselves so they need someone to advocate for them. Obesity/bad eating causes diseases that have a financial cost born by all society. The sick use limited resources that could be used elsewhere. For an example a diabetic will have more infections, they'll take more antibiotics, speeding up how fast bacteria become resistant. So when I have an infection maybe the antibiotics won't work for me.
Yes carrots and honey are nicer and its great to share those ideas. However research shows in general people are more motivated by the stick. Hence anti-smoking adds showing bad consequences.

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I didn't read all of the posts... I scanned but couldn't bring myself to indulge in all of the criticism--open and veiled. My heart aches for the countless moms who are doing their best but are having
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#46 of 47 Old 08-31-2013, 07:10 PM
 
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We grew up poor- I suppose it is fortunate that we were so poor we grew turnips and beets and my dad shot squirrel and deer for meat. Seems like most were poor where I grew up and all of them knew how to grow a handful of turnip seeds or some pole beans. We weren't urban, obviously. We also foraged, picking mushrooms and wild greens and even stealing cover crops from the army corps of engineers land. Catching fish. We survived. In time, we were less poor, and didn't have rely on these things so much, but we still did them.

So I did grow up eating actual food, seeing It cooked and canned and preserved.

Present day in my hometown it is totally different. The families living there for the most part depend upon fast food and processed meals from the store. I'm not being judgemental when I say that, it's just the truth. The old timers are dying off and the old way of surviving while poor is being lost.

I don't hear a lot of judgement in this thread, the video is sad. It is sad that whole generations are sick from fast food and processed crap. Is it happy? No. It's not even neutral. It's sad. The addictive ( and purposefully so) qualities of these foods is only creating a worse habit, so that it is nearly impossible for people to change their diets.

I dont see how saying this is sad or expressing a sense of helplessness when it comes to it is offensive.

What I learned as a kid was about survival. In the past, poor people of all races knew these basic skills. I wish there were an easy fix.
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#47 of 47 Old 09-01-2013, 08:20 PM
 
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We grew up poor- I suppose it is fortunate that we were so poor we grew turnips and beets and my dad shot squirrel and deer for meat. Seems like most were poor where I grew up and all of them knew how to grow a handful of turnip seeds or some pole beans. We weren't urban, obviously. We also foraged, picking mushrooms and wild greens and even stealing cover crops from the army corps of engineers land. Catching fish. We survived. In time, we were less poor, and didn't have rely on these things so much, but we still did them.

So I did grow up eating actual food, seeing It cooked and canned and preserved.

Present day in my hometown it is totally different. The families living there for the most part depend upon fast food and processed meals from the store. I'm not being judgemental when I say that, it's just the truth. The old timers are dying off and the old way of surviving while poor is being lost.

I don't hear a lot of judgement in this thread, the video is sad. It is sad that whole generations are sick from fast food and processed crap. Is it happy? No. It's not even neutral. It's sad. The addictive ( and purposefully so) qualities of these foods is only creating a worse habit, so that it is nearly impossible for people to change their diets.

I dont see how saying this is sad or expressing a sense of helplessness when it comes to it is offensive.

What I learned as a kid was about survival. In the past, poor people of all races knew these basic skills. I wish there were an easy fix.

Omg tabitha! Where did you grow up? Sounds like where I'm from- i could have written your post, word for word! Everyone was poor- even the "rich" kids. But I'm very proud of my upbringing & the fact that I have those skills & hope to pass them on to my kiddo.

Sierra, wife to DH , Mama to DD (2012) and DS(2014). In love with my family and hoping for inner .
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