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#31 of 192 Old 08-09-2004, 11:55 PM
 
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mamaMAMAma,

I could send you the grains and if it didn't work out, I guess you could toss them. Feel the shudder of the kefir lovers reading the thred. I could send you the drink (I'm thinking in tupperware or something), it would be extra sour by the time it arrived, but I think it would be OK. You could make a smoothie to help with the sour and test it out.


On the swap -- I'll see how I'm doing in a few weeks and if my organizational skills are up to par. It would be fun, but I am sure complicated.

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#32 of 192 Old 08-10-2004, 11:31 PM
 
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I must say I'm awfully jealous of all you mamas with yards with all those yummy things growing. I'm looking into my Brooklyn back"yard", its a bunch of concrete & a fire escape. Maybe one day...

Anyway, so I've been reading NT and checking out the WAP site. We've been eating meat again for a little over a week. I'm starting to feel a bit less dazed than I'd been feeling over the last few years so thats nice. My daughter LOVES meat, this is her first experience eating it (14 mos) and is eating so much more now than she had been eating.

I just wanted to ask the rest of you how often your families are eating meat? What are your meals like on a typical day? I feel like I'm still integrating so much new knowledge I'm wondering what people who have been following this path for longer are doing.

Thanks so much.
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#33 of 192 Old 08-12-2004, 01:14 AM
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Hello Heather,

I have been missing from the boards here for a while, but am checking in for a bit today. I have a great pemmican recipe somewhere that I can dig up for you. I will try to post it a little later.

Rebekah
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#34 of 192 Old 08-12-2004, 01:55 AM
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Hello, I found the pemmican recipe. Here is the site I adapted it from:
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~haskell/HSP/PEMMICAN.html

We use almost equal amounts of fat and dried meat. The more fat you use; the sweeter it tastes. Also dried cranberries give it a really nice tartness. We also use currants and apricots. Almonds seem to be the best nuts to use. We press the ground beef flat onto dehydrator trays and dehydrate it at room temp with a fan on high to preserve all of the enzymes. Then we grind it in a meat grinder or grain mill so that it is very powdery. The finer you grind the meat, the better the texture in my opinion. Anyway, that is how we do it. I think the most important thing is getting the fat ratio right though. Like I said we use quite a bit more fat than that recipe uses and think it is really great. Anyway, let me know if you try this recipe and how it turns out for you.
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#35 of 192 Old 08-12-2004, 02:34 PM
 
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Thank you Rebekah! I copied it and will try it in next few days.

Q: So, ground beef, not thin strips like jerky? Or is it just a matter of what you have on hand? I wanted to make some regular jerky too, so if there is no appreciable taste difference, I figure I'd make extra jerky and convert some to 'pemmican'.

THANKS AGAIN
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#36 of 192 Old 08-12-2004, 02:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrheka
I just wanted to ask the rest of you how often your families are eating meat? What are your meals like on a typical day? I feel like I'm still integrating so much new knowledge I'm wondering what people who have been following this path for longer are doing.
My family tends to do less emphasis on the meat than NT recommends. We do about 1/4 lb per person a day on the days that we do eat it, which lately has been pretty skimpy since we need to butcher another chicken. Before that it was probably every other day and bone broths 3 x a week. Every day has some sort of animal product though, usually dairy in the form of raw butter or yogurt/kefir.

I'm going off to breakfast right now, I'll start a "NT Mamas-What I ate today" thread when I get back. (Unless someone wants to beat me to it and start one first!)
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#37 of 192 Old 08-12-2004, 03:02 PM
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Hello Heather,

Yes, we use ground beef not jerky. I can't imagine that grinding jerky would work. It needs to be put through a meat grinder to get it somewhat powdery. With jerky, the fibers are still together and tough from being dry, and I think that would make it chunky and irregular shaped. I imagine the natives who did this had some sort of huge mortar and pestle type thing that they pounded it with. Pounding jerky would probably powder it, but that would be too much work, I think. Also twice ground beef is better than just a single grinding. We make ground beef jerky sometimes for the kids. It is easier for them to break and chew. You can mix in spices and stuff pretty easily while the meat is still moist also. Anyway, let me know what you use and how it turns out!
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#38 of 192 Old 08-12-2004, 03:16 PM
 
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WOW, that's a great idea. My Ds #1 LOVES to 'suck' on jerky when he sees DH eating it. I would never have thought to use ground beef so he can eat it easier (and father has false teeth, and that would be nice for him, he loves flavor, but hates traditional jerky as it's hard to eat)!!!

Thank you again! I've got some ground buffalo in freezer, I'm gonna spice it, and dehydrate it! OMG how easy! I was dreading 'slicing super thin' some brisket!

I have dried fruit (cranberries, etc) on hand, so I actually might get to make this tonight!

Mmm, I wonder how coconut oil would work for the 'fat' portion? It keeps a long long time, but I know 'animal' fats keep longer.

Would you 100% suggest I go get some beef fat trimmings from the butcher (don't have any really fatty meats on hand, atm) and render it myself? Have you ever used another fat?

Thanks again! Either way, gonna make ground beef jerky tonight!
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#39 of 192 Old 08-12-2004, 07:51 PM
 
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Well, I tried the kimchi today. It's good but a little too salty (and I eat pretty salty already). So I'm wondering for the next batch if I can add less salt? I'm not sure how the salt content affects the fermentation. I used the recipe on the koreankitchen website.
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#40 of 192 Old 08-13-2004, 01:09 AM
 
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I wonder what happened? Did you rinse the cabbage well after you salted it to wilt? Did you account for the salt in the chili sauce that you used? I think you can use less salt, you just have to watch the fermentation a bit more. I'll ask my DH (resident fermentation expert).
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#41 of 192 Old 08-14-2004, 04:39 PM
 
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So its week 2 for my family of changing the way we eat. Things are going well except my energy is so low. I'm attributing this to the fact the I gave up coffee cold turkey. Its been a week and a half without any caffeine. Most of the day I'm fine, not really peppy but getting through, but then there are times like now when I'm so tired.

So I'm wondering how many of you have kicked the caffeine habit. how long did it take you to adjust to a new way of eating (especially those who were previous vegetarians)? My family seems to be adjusting better, my husband still drinks coffee because its harder to quit with his job.

Prior to our change I did drink a lot of coffee, but not a lot of sweets or refined carbs. Never had junk in the house just snacked on it when I was outside of the house. So I don't think its the lack of sugar that's doing this. Its most likely a combination of things. Just feel like I need some encouragement before I drag myself over to the espresso machine.
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#42 of 192 Old 08-14-2004, 06:19 PM
 
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Good for you hrheka! I used to drink 5-6 cups of coffee a day, and quit cold turkey as well. (this was 5-6 years ago). I had really bad headaches for a bout 2 weeks and then the headaches went away. I don't crave coffee at all even when dh is brewing his decaf. So hang in there, you're doing great.
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#43 of 192 Old 08-14-2004, 09:24 PM
 
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hooray for kicking coffee! It's so hard, kudos to you!

What about juice as an alternative? Wheatgrass is supposed to give you a boost. Also smoothies with raw pastured eggs.

I kicked coffee long before I switched to omnivorism, so I wouldn't be able to tell you how long it took me to adjust. You are probably having a hard time with the radical diet change. Hugs to you. It will get so much better after your body recovers from the caffeine addiction!

I generally have pretty low energy normally (all my life), I think I have some adrenal issues. It got better when I started eating this way, but I'm wondering if maybe I have some gluten issues as well that are contributing to my tiredness?
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#44 of 192 Old 08-14-2004, 10:14 PM
 
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Thanks for the support mamaMAMAma and Toraji. It made me feel better to hear you say two weeks mamaMAMAma, so many people were telling me it would just be a few days so i started getting a bit nervous now that its been almost a week and a half. I'll definately try the wheatgrass juice on Monday when I stop by the health food store. Toraji, do you recommend having a little every day while I'm getting over the caffeine or just some every few days?

I've often wondered if I have gluten issues as well. The past few weeks soaking or fermenting my grains have made them a little easier on my system. I know two people recently diagnosed with Celiac and both of them have really big energy issues. I've been thinking if my energy does not start to balance out soon I might be tested for gluten intolerance. Both of my friends had very few symptons but were severely celiac.
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#45 of 192 Old 08-16-2004, 01:55 AM
 
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I think I'd probably take it slow introducing wheatgrass juice into your diet. A little bit, then increase if you don't have any problems. Wheatgrass juice is notorious for detoxing. I used to do a little bit mixed in with other veggies, like carrot/celery/beet and apple. I was never much for doing straight shots of the stuff. So maybe just a little every day? You can adjust if it makes you feel bad or good.

Yeah, hopefully I can beat these energy issues without going grain-free. The thought quite honestly scares me although I totally understand the benefits of it. I've heard if you are celiac that it's best to go totally grain-free as there is a lot of gluten-grain contamination of the non-gluten grains.
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#46 of 192 Old 08-22-2004, 06:47 PM
 
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How is everyone doing? Just wanted to bump this up so it didn't get buried.

We finally butchered another chicken and it went much smoother this time around. It dressed out at 8 pounds! Big chicken indeed. It was a Cornish cross meat bird, the ones they usually butcher at 6 weeks for broilers. We obviously let ours go longer. But it was still rough. I don't think it will ever get easy (nor do I want it to get easy!) to butcher an animal. Keeps your human-ness in perspective, KWIM?
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#47 of 192 Old 08-23-2004, 11:39 PM
 
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I'm glad things went better this time Toraji. I'm so amazed that you can do that, how do you learn these types of things? Did you internship with a farm or anything? I'm unfortunately a city girl now but when I was a kid there were a lot of cows and chickens around but I was never privy to the slaughtering process. We're thinking about getting out of this blasted city in a few years a trying for someplace where we can have some animals but I'm not sure how to go about learning what I'd need to do to tend for them, etc.

Anyway, I'm in the process of moving, again (2nd time this year). We're staying in Brooklyn for now but we're moving to an area with no health food store. We're set for produce/meat/eggs/basic dairy from the farmer's market that we go to once a week in Manhattan. I'm trying to figure out how to get grains though. Does anyone know someplace on-line that sells good grains? I need them ground already as I've not saved the $$$ for a grinder. I'd prefer they were organic and ground by whoever was selling them to me. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
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#48 of 192 Old 08-24-2004, 03:07 PM
 
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I grew up a total city girl, although the place I lived had a lot of horses around. But it was definitely not the farm-type horses, more of the arena show kind. To be honest, DH kinda dragged me into farm life (lol, he's a product of the concrete jungle as well), but the more I started looking into self-sufficient living the more I liked all the philosophy and concepts behind it.

My bible is "The Encyclopedia of Country Living" by Carla Emery. That is the most comprehensive book on self-sufficient farm skills I've found. I also do a lot of research on the net when I need to learn something specific like how to butcher a chicken. We still fumbled around pretty badly the first time around ("Is that the gizzard?" "I don't know, I've never eaten one!"). So we're just giving it our best (blind) shot, and it seems to be working okay.

On mail-order flours: if I had to order them online, I'd go through this place (sells sprouted flours!) http://www.creatingheaven.net/eeproducts/eesfc/
or Azure Standard (big West Coast co-op) http://www.azurestandard.com
Shipping might be pretty costly to the East Coast though.
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#49 of 192 Old 08-24-2004, 03:59 PM
 
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Our meat chicken area is almost finished and I am getting a bit nervous about the slaughter. We have hens who will start laying any day now -- ordered 14. They all lived, but 2 are roosters. So we just have a rooster to some friends and he was very upset by it as were the chickens we kept. Anyway, it's making me think about the meat chickens a bit more. We have intended to have a little meat chicken breeding program here, but now I wonder if we should just buy some boys (they are about 25 cents each typically) and go through cycles like that. I would have a hard time parting a mom from her child. Of course, the reality of the chicks that you buy in the feed store is that they have been parted from their mommas, you just don't do it yourself so you don't think about it. Oh, the many reasons for a vegetarian diet. Too bad you can't get animal fat from eggplant.

Amanda Rose, author, Rebuild From Depression: A Nutrient Guide. Don't miss this opportunity to build a business telling friends about probiotic foods and grass fed meats: Beyond Organic Review.

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#50 of 192 Old 08-24-2004, 04:02 PM
 
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Just sitting around waiting for the kefir verdict from mamaMAMAma.

tap tap
tap

Anyone else need kefir grains? I've got 3 cups or more now. We go through at least a quart a day here.

Anyone have an extra kombucha mushroom? We had one many years ago but apparently it got composted in an over-zealous attempt to clean the refrigerator.

Amanda Rose, author, Rebuild From Depression: A Nutrient Guide. Don't miss this opportunity to build a business telling friends about probiotic foods and grass fed meats: Beyond Organic Review.

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#51 of 192 Old 08-24-2004, 04:28 PM
 
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GaleForce,

I know a lady here in CO that has Kombucha 'babies' occasionally to mail out. PM me your email and I can put you in touch with her.

Suse,

Yours should arrive any day/time now. It was mailed on Monday. She asks me to confirm when you get it, so she won't worry.

I made Kefir cheese and spiced it with garlic, some 'spike', sea salt and cumin. It reminds me of 'Neufchatel' (sp) spread cheese. It's Oh so yummy.


RAF,

I'm finally making some Beef Jerky in my dehydrator (I'm using ground buffalo) that I spiced with Soy, Garlic and a tiny bit of black pepper and sea salt. I made thin 'patties' and just laid them on the racks (used two racks) of my Ronco dehydrator. I was worried that it wouldn't be a 'marinade' for the meat, just seasoning. If you read this, how do you know when they are dry enough and 'safe' to use?

TTYL
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#52 of 192 Old 08-24-2004, 05:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gale Force
We have intended to have a little meat chicken breeding program here, but now I wonder if we should just buy some boys (they are about 25 cents each typically) and go through cycles like that. I would have a hard time parting a mom from her child. Of course, the reality of the chicks that you buy in the feed store is that they have been parted from their mommas, you just don't do it yourself so you don't think about it. Oh, the many reasons for a vegetarian diet. Too bad you can't get animal fat from eggplant.
We had one of our layers hatch out a nest of eggs and after about 6 weeks, most of the chicks were no longer hanging out with her. Any ones that still wanted to be with her she would peck away and drive off. So after this time, they are independent chickens (at least in the mama's eyes!). This seems to be pretty standard behavior for mama chickens from what I've heard. We got about 4 roosters in her batch of 14 babies, so our laying flock will be thankfully increasing, as we did not have enough before.

It's a good idea to keep the meat birds separate because it affects the pecking order when you cull a chicken, which could cause the layers to stop laying temporarily. Although we don't do that at the moment because we don't have our land separated like that yet.

LOL about the eggplant! :
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#53 of 192 Old 08-24-2004, 05:52 PM
 
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Refering to the 'animal fats from an eggplant...' :LOL Like protein from an egg...

We get breastmilk from big round coconuts... *Ok, so a similar medium chain fat*

Can you think of any more? :LOL (This is making me laugh so hard I woke up the baby...haha)
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#54 of 192 Old 08-24-2004, 06:25 PM
 
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galeforce: Sorry it took a while. Well, the kefir is sitting in the frig. I haven't tried it yet. I was going to try it yesterday, but dh has this big interview today and I didn't want dd#2 to be grouchy last night (in case she is sensitive to it). She was fussy last night anyways, so I could have tried it then!
I had a little taste just now, and ah.. I probably can't drink it straight. I'm off smoothies because of my low carb diet, so I think I'll make some cream cheese with it. Then I can put the whey in our morning porridge.

The grains are still in the kefir, I don't really know how to separate it. All my sieves are stainless steel. And I don't have those garlic wrapper things that xenabyte was talking about. DD#2 just woke up.
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#55 of 192 Old 08-24-2004, 07:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamaMAMAma
The grains are still in the kefir, I don't really know how to separate it. All my sieves are stainless steel. And I don't have those garlic wrapper things that xenabyte was talking about. DD#2 just woke up.

If you don't have any 'onion/garlic' bags, do you have a plastic screw on lid for a mason jar? You could poke a few holes in the top with an ice pick or a nail and hammer. Just make a bunch of them so the kefir drains through, but not your grains. (I was contemplating this before I saw the garlic sitting on my counter and thought about the 'netting').

Also, if you just HAVE to strain it, just use your stainless steel strainer, just don't rinse the grains, and put them back into a clean 'brew' container and add fresh milk. There will only be contact with the grains on the bottom side and leaving some kefir on them should insulate them enough to not cause any problems.

The dom says you can use a cotton 'doily' that is about the right 'weave', but I tried this and the grains stuck to the cotton pretty badly, but I picked them off gently. I also washed the doily in SUPER hot water, and fluff dried to make sure it was sterlie, before using it to strain.
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#56 of 192 Old 08-24-2004, 08:29 PM
 
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Thanks xenabyte. I'll poke some homes in a ziplock tonight and see if it works. Then I'll give your cream cheese recipe a try.
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#57 of 192 Old 08-24-2004, 09:17 PM
 
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Okay, I didn't wait till tonight. I'm glad I didn't, don't want dh to witness what a klutz I am. He's been asking me why I'm doing this.. why not just buy kefir from the store. : I didn't poke the holes large enough so the kefir wasn't going down, so I poked holes in another bag because I didn't want the stainless steel fork to disturb the grains...

I have clumps of stuff (grains I guess?), but I don't have individual grains. Did I kill them? Then I tried doing the cream cheese without reading NT. So now I have a cheese cloth (flat diaper) over a sieve and milk dripping down. I thought whey is supposed to be clear? not milk like? Thats when I picked up the book. I guess I'm supposed to let the kefir sit a day or 2 until it separates before doing the sieve/cheese cloth? Any tips? I'm very excited about this, I hope my body, dd#1 and dd#2's can tolerate this form of dairy.

Better go clean up the kitchen / evidence. Dh is coming home early.
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#58 of 192 Old 08-24-2004, 09:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenabyte
Refering to the 'animal fats from an eggplant...' :LOL Like protein from an egg...

We get breastmilk from big round coconuts... *Ok, so a similar medium chain fat*

Can you think of any more? :LOL (This is making me laugh so hard I woke up the baby...haha)
what about the idea of getting EFA's from flax oil, a very fishy-tasting substance? :LOL
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#59 of 192 Old 08-25-2004, 05:42 PM
 
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you know, i am lazy as all get out & i just pour around the kefir clumps & fish out any that fall in with a spoon. it's not like a small clump that gets in is harmful, kwim? i have not strained it in any fashion since i've had it. i wouldn't sweat it.

where am i missing the coconut/eggplant joke?

jerky just needs to be dryish/flexible; i haven't had any spoil on me yet. (i'm anxious to try the ground/pemmican version; my babies always liked to gnaw the stuff too.)

goatlady, my goat lady has been v understanding & came with eggs & milk i paid her for in nickels, lol. (boy that milk went fast- we had mexican hot chocolate- slap me, it was 'abuelita', a nestle brand, not 'ibarra', but it was sooo goatilicious on a rainy day.)

suse
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#60 of 192 Old 08-25-2004, 06:02 PM
 
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mamamama,

I have large 'Kefir clumps/grains' also. My kefir gets pretty thick by next day (probably because I have not 'thinned the grains' since I got them).

I just swirl the jar to kinda break it up and free the grains that might be surrounded in 'clingy curds', pour off the kefir into a new jar and add more milk to my 'original lumps' in the brew jar. I wash the jar out every other day or so. I think I loose a few 'little ones' occasionally too when straining.

If you let the Kefir you poured off sit in fridge a day, it will start to seperate into a 'yellowish, clear' whey and the 'curds' will start to cling together. If you let it set at room temp for another day, it will form your 'curds' even faster! But I usually let it do it's thing in the fridge.

I pour this in my cheesecloth and while I get some kefir milk in the whey (tiny amount that settles to bottom), most forms a nice mass of 'cream cheese' in the cloth.

I added garlic, cumin, 'spike' and some sea salt to last batch. I swear it was like 'Neufchatel' herbed cheese!

hth
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