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Worldshakerz 08-03-2004 07:54 PM

Thougt I'd start off a new thread for August.

How's everyone doing? I've got NT apple butter that I need to use up soon. I'm thinking about using it in a bread, like putting the apple butter instead of banana in the NT banana bread recipe. I also may try one of the recipes under the apple butter cookie thread. I'll probably make both, I've got a whole quart to use up.

Since the summer session ended and I've got 3 more weeks until school starts back up, I've been enjoying getting to do more in the kitchen. I'm taking chicken out of the freezer tonite so I can make stock in the next day or two..its been a couple of months since I made it.

Well, healthy and yummy eats to you all.

toraji 08-03-2004 11:22 PM

Hooray! Thanks for starting a new thread! Cathe, can you archive our old one pretty please?

We've been doing lots of foraging of wild blackberries. They just started ripening and are oh-so-tasty! We're also finally starting to harvest our first ripe tomatoes of the season. This year we are taking great pains to use organic soil amendments and foliar feeds (kelp, calcium, and fish meal/emulsion) and it has been making a huge difference in the quality of the produce. Has anyone heard about Brix testing? I've just heard about it for testing the quality of produce but haven't gotten a refractometer as of yet.

One of our chickens got nabbed by an unknown predator a couple weeks ago, but luckily no more have been taken. The shock of the last chicken butchering has faded slightly, which is good because it's about time to do another one. eek.

Livi's Mama 08-04-2004 11:12 AM

Hi! I'm new to NT, just finished reading the book and slowly trying new dishes. Finding it a bit difficult. Partly due to the "newness" of so many of the dishes/ingredients & partly because some things are so expensive (ie coconut oil.) Also, I'm concerned DH will revolt if I don't ease him into it I had made yogurt before, but now I've got milk separating to make whey/cream cheese. Also tried kefir but apparantly I did something wrong, cuz it sure doesn't look right. Is it possible to mess up kefir? - I'm pretty sure my curds were good. Oh well, try again. Any tips for a newbie? So happy to find this group !!

TigerTail 08-04-2004 11:23 AM

lol, i didn't even realize there was an apple butter recipe in nt, i prolly erased it from my mind after my salty apricot butter debacle. i have it two ft from me, i'll give it a looksee for my next batch (today is blackberry day, anyway- more perishable!)


Gale Force 08-04-2004 07:52 PM

We just discovered that our 14 hens, brought by the Easter Bunny in April, are actually 12 hens and 2 roosters. We'll probably save one of the boys and eat the other. We're also working on a new area for meat chickens -- they'll have their own coop and large yard for ranging. The yard is divided in half so we can plant one half in clover or something and let the chickens in when it has grown up. The meat chickens will live in what will be our orchard -- to be planted this winter.

I went off the sugar wagon this weekend, actually all of the wagons. I am still off of the fermented beverage wagon (and I don't mean the traditional fermentation techniques). Just lost a baby at 9 weeks and am in a state of recovery. I attempted to read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration as part of my recovery. Have you all seen that book? It is a poorly organized manuscript. Anyway, I decided to crochet a baby blanket instead. My sister-in-law is expecting in October.

yitlan 08-05-2004 12:19 AM

I use both the apricot butter and the berry syrup in my morning grains. Yum!

hrheka 08-05-2004 10:51 PM

Hi, I'm very new here. I just stumbled across NT and the WAP site last week and have been totally converted. I've been reading all your old threads and thats what has really helped convince me to try this way of living out.

I've been A vegetarian off and on for 15 years, started when I was 12. I've eaten fish through parts and ate meat like crazy while I was pregnant. I've started thinking I had a hypothyroid problem which is how I stumbled across NT.

I live in New York City so some things are very hard to get here. Like raw milk. I've seen on one thread that there are some places that mail order it frozen. Has anyone tried this, is it good?

Others things are very easy. Yesterday I was in a part of Brooklyn that is very Russian and I found a resturant with real home made Kvas. I got a big mug of it. I must say it was so refreshing (it was 87 degress out and I'd been on the beach). I'm trying to find a good jar now so I can make some of my own.

Anyway, sorry to babble so but I'm really happy to have found this whole thing and have found you discussions so useful. Can't wait to join in. Thanks!

xenabyte 08-06-2004 04:13 PM

Gale Force,

about your loss. Here is a for you and your

Feel better soon.

xenabyte 08-06-2004 04:14 PM

Just made my first overnight Kefir. It was pretty pleasant straight up, but I saved it and made a smoothie with it this morn. YUM!

Thanks again Suse!

UrbanPlanter 08-06-2004 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by hrheka
Hi, I'm very new here. I just stumbled across NT and the WAP site last week and have been totally converted. I've been reading all your old threads and thats what has really helped convince me to try this way of living out.
Hi, I'm new, too! Can I join

What is the NT and WAP site? I'd love to check it out, too.
I'm very excited about learning more about all of this!

Gale Force 08-06-2004 09:44 PM


thanks xenabyte.

welcome gals.



Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon

also like

Wild Fermentation by Sandor Katz -- very well written, interesting story and perspective with basics of fermenting various foods.

toraji 08-06-2004 10:05 PM

Oh no! Gale Force, many hugs to you. I'm so sorry to hear about your loss.

Welcome to the new tribe members!

hrheka, I mailordered my butter from
there is a NYC WAPF chapter ( ) that may be able to help you out with raw milk. Lucky you, you can get pastured meats at the farmers market! My sister lives in Brooklyn and she goes to the market at Union Square? the one next to NYU and gets pastured cheese and meat there.

morsan 08-07-2004 02:35 AM


Glad to see some new ones, welcome.
I see blackberry bushes EVERYWHERE, even when I close my eyes. And they're so yummy. We have lots on the land we're living on but I think the other renters are picking it all . We'll see what I can do this weekend while they're gone. I made some berry suryp a couple of weeks ago and it was rather salty, should it be?? Dh wouldn't eat it at all. The second time I tried it it wasn't too bad, but then I had added some water and rapadura to it. Is it necessary to add salt, and that much? The brand I use now is Real salt. Would celtic salt be better? It's like five times more expensive!!

Tomorrow we're going to Ashland where I'm picking up some pastured beef bones, I'm so excited. I bought some beef and ground lamb last time I was there (3 weeks ago) and haven't used it up since I haven't had any beef broth.
Thinking about making some peach chutney. Got some peaches this week for 4 bucks a case (organic, but hail damaged). Half of them looked alright but one I had was tasteless, so I got discouraged and left them to rot. I'm just going to buy some at the coop instead. I don't think I will mailorder produce again.

I started some beet kvass, but with the weather being so cold (like 70 degress, that's a 30 degree drop!) I kept it out for three days. I'll taste it tomorrow.

I'm really into NT cooking again, but I'm kind of bummed because my oven doesn't work. I wonder if I can just use the broiler the same way you use an oven. Anyone knows if that's possible? All I got now is a toaster oven. I made crispy almonds, and all I could fit in there was a mere half cup!!

What do you all do for kids snacks and sweets?

mamaMAMAma 08-08-2004 12:09 PM

I would like to join this group too. A quick intro: I'm a ovo-lacto vegetarian (10 years) and just about to start adding some meat back to our diet because of health reasons.

Anyways, I'm looking at the kimchi recipe in NT. Has anyone tried it? I never liked kimchi, until I tried some fresh kimchi last year when we were visiting Portland, OR. We went to a french restaurant and the owner's wife is Korean and just made a fresh batch of kimchi. I tried it (because she was very enthusiastic) and it was great! So I'm wondering how authentic the kimchi recipe is. I won't be able to add whey (dairy sensitivity) and will be adding more salt.

Gale Force 08-08-2004 12:28 PM


welcome mamaMAMAma. i have been meaning to respond to your other thread -- i was a vegan for 4 years before i got pg about 3 years ago. i was a vegetarian for most of my life before that. i ended up w severe depression in pg and postpartum. after lots of tests, i realized the underlying cause was deficiencies that related to the veg diet. the change has made all the difference.

blackberries: they are native to the mountains here and we've had a few bowls from the wild bushes on our property. our plan this winter is to dig them up and plant them as a hedge around the perimeter to deter deer from visiting. we have two mamas w babies who graze everyday. the berries have nasty thorns, so no animal will be interested. we'll have to pick in long sleeves and jeans. a friend has some very thorny boysenberries we may try as well. so in about two years, you all are invited over for some berry cobbler.

thanks for your condolences toraji. i'm doing much better. we wil be planting a memorial black walnut tree on the west side of our property which will become a dominant part of the landscape there and help frame our view of the Sierra foothills.

Gale Force 08-08-2004 12:38 PM


Let's talk about your dairy sensitivity. Have you tried any homemade cultured dairy products using organic milk? I ask because I was sensitive to dairy as well, commercial yogurt included. I took a chance and started culturing my own yogurt and had no problems, in fact, I started craving it. I now make kefir as well. We're only about five hours away from each other -- I can send you kefir grains if you are interested. Even in this hot weather they should be OK. That goes for anyone else as well -- I always have a good bit of grains. For folks who live outside of California, I should probably wait until the weather cools a bit.


TigerTail 08-08-2004 01:35 PM

i'm sorry for your loss as well, amanda.

glad the kefir is working, xena! (fwiw, amanda, grains sent from tn to co priority made it there quickly & in good shape.)

now i'm envious of the thorny boysenberries- all i can find in catalogs are the thornless, & like the blackberries i don't like them as much. does anyone know why boysenberries (of any sort) should be so buggery hard to find east of the rockies? in cai they were pretty ubiquitous, & NO one grows them here, tho' i cann't think of a horticultural reason they wouldn't grow. i like them sooo much more than blackberries. (maybe when it cools down you could trade me a slip? i have black & red raspberries, i could send you a chunky rooted piece of both...)


ps i think this trading/sharing thing is actually working out pretty cool, since commercial starts are often so pricey & we end up with so much to share once it grows, anyway.

i am going to try to start some koji for miso and amazake- if what i read is *true*, the ginger 'bug' you start for ale is actually where the aspergillus culture comes from! (can't remember where i read it, but sandor doesn't mention it, i think i may email him & see what he has heard.) if that doesn't work they have koji at my beer store (for sake )

wish me luck!

toraji 08-08-2004 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by mamaMAMAma
Anyways, I'm looking at the kimchi recipe in NT. Has anyone tried it? I never liked kimchi, until I tried some fresh kimchi last year when we were visiting Portland, OR. We went to a french restaurant and the owner's wife is Korean and just made a fresh batch of kimchi. I tried it (because she was very enthusiastic) and it was great! So I'm wondering how authentic the kimchi recipe is. I won't be able to add whey (dairy sensitivity) and will be adding more salt.
I looked at the recipe in NT for kimchee and it is very far from being authentic. I am a Korean snob about it though. The one in Wild Fermentation is closer, but the best thing to do is to go straight to a Korean source. You don't need whey to make it. Here is a link to a recipe that looks pretty similar to the one my mom makes:
and for radish kimchee:
stuffed cucumber kimchee:

You can substitute Vietnamese fish sauce for the Korean fish sauce (or vegetarians can omit this). Korean chile flakes can be bought at a Korean or big Asian grocery store. And a note on the fermentation instructions, they say to put it in an airtight container, but you need to leave the lid loose while it is setting out to let the gases escape.

Happy spicy fermenting!

Gale Force 08-08-2004 02:30 PM


We are actually going sometime this week to get the plant(s). Hopefully tomorrow. Our friend will be moving sometime in the next year and he is overrun with boysenberries, so I'll see about getting some extra. I have no idea what zones they will grow in, but it's worth a shot.


mamaMAMAma 08-08-2004 05:49 PM

gale force: About my dairy sensitivity, I just discovered this a few weeks ago. I've been off dairy because of dd#2 (gassy) and noticed that my perpetual runny nose went away. I tried some goat feta cheese and the runny nose came back(so I'm allergic to goat too). Thats when I figured out I'm somehow allergic to dairy (dd#1 is too, and she gets red bumps around her mouth when she eats yogurt...). I've never tried kefir or making my own yogurt / kefir. I would love to try. I believe I saw some kefir grains at WF, is that the same as yours? Or do you have a special batch?
I'm very sorry about your loss. I had a miscarriage May 2003. The black walnut tree sounds like a great way to remember your little angel.

toraji: Thanks for the links. I'll stop by the asian market this week to pick up some korean chilli and fish sauce.

We have blackberries in our backyard too. The thorns on those things are hideous and they grow like weeds. Just discovered the hard way that there are thorns on the back of the leaves too! Ouch! But they are so tasty.

Gale Force 08-08-2004 07:29 PM


I am not sure what they have at Whole Foods, probably some sort of kefir-like starter. I doubt they have the real deal. How about if I send you some actual kefir (the drink) since it sounds like you have a good litmus test for your sensitivity. If it's OK, I can send you grains so you can make it yourself.


Gale Force 08-08-2004 07:36 PM


Ladies -- we should organize a good, old-fashion MDC swap for plants, garden products, starters, etc. I figure an early fall swap would be ideal -- before hard freezes for gardening items. We could start a post in the swap forum sometime in Sept and mail in early October. What do you all think?

We just moved here so everything I can harvest is extremely drought, deer, gopher, and squirrel resistent. It all survived the care of the previous non-gardening owner. I could put together packages of (1) bay leaves, rosemary, lavender; (2) succulents; (3) bulbs -- narcissus, daffodils; (4) bearded iris; (5) scented germaniums. I think it would be cool to get seeds and starts from other people, of anything, frankly.

TigerTail 08-08-2004 10:59 PM

i mentioned something awhile ago about that, but got discouraged after poking around the swap forum- it is not at ALL what it used to be, & seems to be mostly dipe-orientated ($20 value, 'back' swaps i cannot figure, etc.) we had a round robin for seeds a few years ago that worked out pretty well. but i am organizationally impaired; if you can figure out a way to make it work for us, i will be happy to join! (lots of seeds, queen of the night cereus cuttings... hmnn, if i start rooting stuff now...)

lol- how does one get 'extra' daff bulbs? i'm bad; i have 1000s but keep finding new places to stuff 'em.

suse <--- bulb greedy

mamaMAMAma 08-08-2004 11:35 PM

gale force: I would like to try kefir, but how are you going to send me some? I know you live close, but its still 5 hours away. I was at WF earlier and I checked and they have yogamart (?) kefir grains.

Anyways, I'm really glad I found this thread. I got my napa cabbage and as soon as dd#2 goes to bed I'll start my kimchi. toraji: I got some thai chili paste instead. THought I'd give it a try and will get some korean chili paste next time I go to the asian market.

TigerTail 08-09-2004 12:21 PM

i used to bury my kimchee lots of korean relatives... it's been ages since i made any & i haven't double-checked the nt version for authenticity, lol. now i'm curious. isn't it pretty much napa or bok choi, ginger, red pepper (or the paste), garlic, salt? i don't think i put fish sauce in mine, & i put fish sauce in everything. btw, isn't chili paste pretty much chili paste? i use sambal oelek because it's easy to find, & is chile, vinegar, salt- pretty basic. what's in the korean brand?


milk4two 08-09-2004 12:39 PM

I just unpacked my NT book after our move and can't wait to get back into the groove. We have been eating really poorly the last 2 months.

mamaMAMAma 08-09-2004 01:23 PM

I started my kimchi last night. Actually I put the napa in the salt solution. Today I'll add the chili paste and veggies... Hmm, I can taste it already. I hope it comes out okay.
suse: I don't know whats in the korean brand chili paste but will try and get some this sat. I've never tried sambal oelek.

toraji 08-09-2004 01:28 PM

chili paste? Arrgh, I should have checked the recipe more thoroughly. It is supposed to be korean chile flakes, which come dry in a bag, not a paste which is probably more expensive. I'm not sure what is in chile paste, but it would probably turn out good anyways! Just not authentic.

mamaMAMAma 08-09-2004 01:36 PM

Oops toraji. Its me... it says chili powder in the recipe. I was at the store yesterday and didn't bring the recipe with me. I'll for sure try and get some chili powder this weekend to try it out though. I have a feeling I'll be making a lot of kimchi!

xenabyte 08-09-2004 02:34 PM


Anyone make Pemmican?

I have the NT recipe, but was wondering if anyone has a different recipe or way to do it that they REALLY like.

Ditto for jerky recipes...


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