Cows milk bad for the immune system? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 43 Old 07-08-2008, 11:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PJJ View Post
IMHO, cow's milk is meant for calves.
And the tasty chemicals in most herbs and spices are meant to STOP animals from eating the plant, but we enjoy them nonetheless . Really most of our food items have another natural purpose -- it is not like there are a bunch of altruistic species out there making food just for us (except for fruit -- and plants only "want" us to eat those so that we spread their seeds around, and I don't know about you, but I don't spread my feces outside to return the blueberry seeds to the soil - I just flush them on down). So yes, cow's mild is meant for calves, that does not automatically exclude it being good for people.

I did look at your links in the following post as well PJJ. I can't read the whole book right now, but I did read the article (which seemed pretty heavily based on the book). There were some interesting ideas in the article, but overall I am skeptical of ANY article that does not include a proper bibliography (it threw around a lot of names with degrees after them, but I always want to be able to trace the research back to the original science -- and I couldn't do that with that article). I'm assuming the book is better at supporting its arguements, and I'll have to check it out of the library sometime. That said, most of the arguements in the article do not seem that different from what folks already said to be the problem with dairy -- pasturized, high hormone, high antibiotic milk isn't great, if you don't have the right genes you can be allergic or lactose intolerant, and too much of anything is bad (I like dairy, but I don't drink 3-4 glasses of milk a day. Is that normal for others?) It didn't really mention much about other dairy products such as yogurt, cheese, butter, etc.

Also, I would never recommend cow's milk to an infant as a replacement for human breast milk. Of course the immunity benefits won't transfer, they are very different immune systems. But an adult with a healthy immune system and the proper genetics for processing milk does not need to have the immune boosting power of milk, and can still benefit from the other nutrients in the milk.

To the OP I would ask the following: Has milk and dairy products made you feel ill, gassy, or bloated before? Do you enjoy dairy products? Do you eat them in moderation as part of a varied, healthy diet?

I would say (again PERSONAL OPINION coming up), if you say "no" to the first, and "yes" to the second two, then continuing to eat dairy is fine and not a danger to your immune system (and PJJ, I don't think this disagrees with anything from your sources, but please elaborate if you have additional information).

Emily mother to Colin 5/3/2009
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#32 of 43 Old 07-09-2008, 12:26 PM
 
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I've been lurking and have decided to post my opinion on this.

As a child I drank milk and feel that it did cause me to have excessive mucous and also have effects on my immune system. I drank both reg. milk and local raw dairy milk(even milk from my baby sitter's cow). I had a serious problem with ear/throat infections, but I believe that the combination of the mucous and my infected tonsils were the main culprits. At 16 the doctor finally remove the tonsils, and my throat infections decreased drastically. At 19 I read an article about milk=increased ear/throat infections and decided to cut out milk, and went to drinking soy/rice milks for the next 11 years.

Fast forward to 2.5 years ago, when I was pregnant with my DD, at 4.5 months I woke up one day and wanted milk, not soy milk, not rice milk. I'm talking yummy, cold 2% a big glass of it and that craving continued through out my entire pregnancy and has stayed. During pregnancy I drank a half gallon every couple days, and I also switched to half and half from soy creamer(for my 1/2 cups of coffee). I still have not gone back to soy milk or creamer, my body changed during pregnancy and now soy milk kinda grosses me out, soy creamer makes me sick. I drink milk because my body now feels better when I do. My DD also is a big milk fan, which to me obviously started in the womb. She also likes the other things I craved red peppers and caesar salad, so I guess it started with my cravings.

I'm now a milk drinker, not excessively, but I do love it. I don't feel any better or worse, I strongly believe that pregnancy changed my chemistry and for whatever reason this was what happened to me. It's just my experience.

Me Wife to T (14 years)Mama to Princess(4) and Monster Boy(my 1 year old ):
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#33 of 43 Old 07-11-2008, 07:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by allnaturalmom View Post
There is no such thing as hormone-free milk. The healthiest milk from
the healthiest cow is naturally loaded with lactoferrins,
immunoglobulins, steroid, and protein growth hormones. In an effort to
provide their children with healthy foods, mothers and fathers search
out products that are advertised to be "hormone free." Such marketing is
deceptive. When drinking body fluids from animals, or eating their
flesh, you ingest their naturally occurring hormones.

Read more about this here: http://notmilk.com/hormonefree.html
This makes it sound like you can avoid eating hormones by not eating animal flesh or drinking their bodily fluids. Hormones are in plants, too. Hormones are simply chemicals in the organism that cause change. Without hormones *nothing* would ever happen. No growth, no flowers, no fruit, no babies, etc. Hormones are essential to life. It's the artificial ones you want to avoid.

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#34 of 43 Old 07-11-2008, 11:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by evening start View Post
That being said, I do agree that most of our modern milk supply in this country comes with an unnecessary and unwanted addition of antibiotics and hormones. If you can find a farmer to sell you fresh, raw, organic (or better than organic) milk, definitely go for it. If not, look for organic milk in the groccery store and as with everything use moderation as your guide.

That is my opinion, of course. I am not a doctor (but I am a trained scientist and a biology teacher), so I don't know about the very latest research on dairy and the immune system. But I'm not going to stop eating diary:.
I guess this is what I was looking for.
I love milk...love it. With all due respect to the vegan Mamas on here, there is.no.way I am giving up drinking milk anymore than I plan to give up drinking wine or coffee.
That being said, I am always looking to "tweak" our diet to make us stronger and healthier.
I will definately switch back to buying organic and will check into finding a raw source.

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#35 of 43 Old 07-11-2008, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by evening start View Post
To the OP I would ask the following: Has milk and dairy products made you feel ill, gassy, or bloated before? Do you enjoy dairy products? Do you eat them in moderation as part of a varied, healthy diet?

I would say (again PERSONAL OPINION coming up), if you say "no" to the first, and "yes" to the second two, then continuing to eat dairy is fine and not a danger to your immune system (and PJJ, I don't think this disagrees with anything from your sources, but please elaborate if you have additional information).
Nope, in fact a glass of cold milk was my first choice to soothe a sour stomach when I was pregnant and a glass of warm milk helps me rest at night.
Yes, I do eat a moslty healthy diet.

Married to my best friend since 08/05
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#36 of 43 Old 07-12-2008, 12:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by alysmommy2004 View Post
We really try to limit dairy in our house, but my DD is a milk addict. I'm slowly trying to get her switched to hemp milk or almond milk, but she really has trouble with the taste. Anyway, I noticed the OP is in NC. I don't know where you are, but the best milk (by best I mean affordable and non convential) I have been able to find is from Homeland Creamery. I buy it at Earth Fare instead of Organic Valley (my next option) or Horizon (which I try to avoid) mainly b/c it's local.
Thanks!
There is a retailer not too far from me.

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#37 of 43 Old 07-14-2008, 11:33 PM
 
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The China Study by Campbell has a lot of information on how dairy affects the body, including acting as trigger for cancer.

Very scientific, very thorough.

I highly recommend it.
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#38 of 43 Old 07-15-2008, 01:11 AM
 
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#39 of 43 Old 07-15-2008, 01:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MacroMama View Post
The China Study by Campbell has a lot of information on how dairy affects the body, including acting as trigger for cancer.

Very scientific, very thorough.

I highly recommend it.
I disagree. After reading it, it left me wanting more information. It seemed to have a good premise, but the facts were disjointed and didn't really address the China study itself except in a very perfunctory and superficial way.

It also didn't provide a good case for excluding dairy, only excluding the eating of casein alone. I don't know any dairy eater who eats casein exclusively.

I blog traditional foods and Weston A Price at Nourished Kitchen. See my healthy recipes.
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#40 of 43 Old 07-15-2008, 09:49 AM
 
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To the OP - check out www.realmilk.com if you're interested in finding a local source of raw milk.

I'm off to check out The China Study!
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#41 of 43 Old 07-15-2008, 10:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by snowbunny View Post
It also didn't provide a good case for excluding dairy, only excluding the eating of casein alone. I don't know any dairy eater who eats casein exclusively.
Since casein composes 87% of the protein in milk, it's pretty hard to avoid if you consume dairy...
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#42 of 43 Old 07-15-2008, 11:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MacroMama View Post
Since casein composes 87% of the protein in milk, it's pretty hard to avoid if you consume dairy...
I'm not suggesting anyone avoid casein unless they're sensitive to it.

When you take any component of food and use it in isolation (as was done in the studies referenced by Campbell) it does not give you a whole perspective on the whole food. He studied casein, not dairy. Yes, casein is a component of dairy, but when you study it in isolation you can't assume that its isolated effects will translate to the whole food.

Take beta carotene for example, study after study showed that foods rich in beta carotene helped combat cancer, but when beta carotene was used supplementally it actually speeded up the cancer. Does that mean that beta carotene is dangerous? Hardly. What it does mean is that there are other components of food, and they interact together in human health.

The point is that clean, whole foods are nourishing and healthful. Foods that are not whole (like casein alone) have the potential to be unhealthful.

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#43 of 43 Old 07-15-2008, 11:59 AM
 
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It is bad for my immune system-I am allergic to cows milk.
My son wont be having cows milk as I dont believe it is healthy for human's.
Some people do think it is healthy, others dont.And there is nothing wrong with that at all.:
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