What;s worse cow's milk or soy milk?? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 47 Old 10-23-2008, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi. I am new to this forum, so I am hoping I am posting in the right place.

I took my son to his well baby visit today- he is 15 months- and the dr. was trying to convince me not to give my son soy milk. I don't like cow's milk at all (for a multitude of reasons) and have never given it to either of my kids. I have read conflicting articles on soy milk. What are your thoughts on soy milk??? Thanks in advance!
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#2 of 47 Old 10-23-2008, 09:37 PM
 
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Is your 15mo nursing? If yes, then there's no need for any additional milk in his diet.

If not, then I'd go with cow or goat milk over soy. Soy "milks" are highly processed and not really good for human consumption, at least not in huge quantities. The occasional tofutti ice cream is unlikely t ocause problems, but a steady diet of soymilk is high in phytoestrogens and difficult to digest.

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#3 of 47 Old 10-23-2008, 09:56 PM
 
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Is your 15mo nursing? If yes, then there's no need for any additional milk in his diet.
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-Angela
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#4 of 47 Old 10-23-2008, 10:12 PM
 
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I am lactose intolerant and just don't drink milk. Soy or otherwise. If I so desired milk I would go goat.

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#5 of 47 Old 10-23-2008, 10:22 PM
 
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We're doing fine without any day-to-day milk. Occasional rice milk for my muffin recipe, and coconut milk when I'm cooking something that I want rich and creamy, but other than that, we're fine without.
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#6 of 47 Old 10-23-2008, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sorry I posted twice- I edited and then I couldn't delete... still learning how to use this site...

As far as BF, believe me, I know the benefits of BF and all that...I wish I could have done it longer but it wasn't working out... period. I don't really wish to go there... it is a done deal and I can not go back in time, unfortunately.

That being said, I really want to know what other moms are giving their children and their thoughts on soy milk? I am just not a fan of animal milk, at all. But don't want to keep giving soy if it is bad.
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#7 of 47 Old 10-23-2008, 10:34 PM
 
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My daughter was having chronic ear infections and colds around 9 months old. Took her to the chiro and she told us to cut out regular formula and give her soy formula instead (I was BFing, pumping, and supplementing with formula). The chiro actually performed a diagnostic test to determine whether she was allergic/intolerant of the regular formula. With the soy formula her chronic congestion improved within a couple of days. She had no problems with the soy formula as far as we could tell. Even now, at 2.5 years old, she drinks more soy milk then cow's milk. Haven't noticed a problem.
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#8 of 47 Old 10-23-2008, 10:37 PM
 
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We do organic cows whole milk, mommas milk in a cup, and almond milk. I try to stay away from soy.

Amy, mommy to Ava, 6, Gavin, 4, Lila, 2, and Baby #4 due in early November! joy.gif
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#9 of 47 Old 10-23-2008, 10:38 PM
 
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I would not give soy milk either (or rice milk), for the same reasons the others have said. It is not a whole food and is nowhere near as nutritionally complete as milk, human or cow or otherwise.

If the child tolerates goat milk I would give that, preferably raw. It is more easily digested than cow milk and the ratio of lactose/casein is much closer to that of breast milk.

If the child couldn't tolerate dairy I would focus on getting in nutrients and fat some other way, i.e. bone broth, coconut oil/milk, avocado, etc.
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#10 of 47 Old 10-23-2008, 10:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melvis View Post

That being said, I really want to know what other moms are giving their children and their thoughts on soy milk? I am just not a fan of animal milk, at all. But don't want to keep giving soy if it is bad.
My son drinks rice milk.
He can't have dairy at all and learning about the phytoestrogens in the soy beverage is what prompted me to switch him from soy to rice.

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#11 of 47 Old 10-23-2008, 10:52 PM
 
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I would definitely give animal milk over soy any day. Soymilk is incredibly controversial for a reason. Even if you discount the problems with hormone mimicry, it is GMO, highly processed, and tends to contain additional ingredients.

If animal milk is not well tolerated, I would go with a nut/seed milk next. Whether that's almond, coconut, hemp, etc. But I would much rather make them myself than buy them in a can or a package at the store.

Ultimately though, I would question why you think your DS needs milk? Do you think he needs the protein, the fat, the vitamins, etc.? Because there are all sorts of other things you could be giving him instead of either milk or soymilk, depending on why he's getting it.

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#12 of 47 Old 10-23-2008, 10:56 PM
 
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If I had a non-nursing toddler, I would give him or her milk from another mammal (possibly in the form of formula rather than whole milk, depending on what the rest of the baby's diet looked like.) If no mammal milk was tolerated at all, then I'd go with a soy formula, not plain soy milk.

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18, and Jack, 12
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#13 of 47 Old 10-23-2008, 11:01 PM
 
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Personally, if I had a child under two, for whom human milk was not an option, I would use a formula of some sort. If a formula was not possible, I would use an animal milk. Probably goat's would be my first choice.

-Angela
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#14 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 12:25 AM
 
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I'd go with goat's milk if you're uncomfortable with cow's milk. Personally I would never give my son (or myself for that matter) any soy products except for very small amounts of organic fermented soy (such as a quality soy sauce). From the information I've found, humans have not traditionally consumed soy in large quantities and when it was consumed it was fermented. I don't think evolution has caught up with the amount of soy our society consumes and I have a hard time believing that doing so doesn't have negative consequences.

ETA: I do agree with PP that if your son is nursing then he doesn't actually need any "milk" products. Human milk is more than adequate.

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#15 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 01:03 AM
 
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Clearly the opinions you get will be what is ingrained in each person's conditioning and belief.

There are many reasons cow's milk is bad for human consumption as there are for soy consumption by humans. Personally I don't use either and do not recommend either as our children are not bovine and soy is not a good food source for humans.

What's most important to answer is why you feel the need to give your young one cow milk or soy milk. Identify what you want your child to receive by consuming either one and find alternatives that fit your beliefs and comfort.

Fortunately there is a lot of wonderful natural whole foods available to give us and our children all the nourishment they need even in the absence of breastmilk. Once you identify what you want then find the foods that will provide that.
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#16 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 01:24 AM
 
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I drink it, our kids drink it, and I have no fears about it. Both our kids are allergic to the casein in cow's milk. I tried consuming a tiny amount of goat yogurt while nursing the less allergic child and he had a quite a reaction to that so goat casein is off limits for us too. I ran through all the other alternative milks...rice milk has no fat or protein, oat and almond milks taste funny and they won't drink them, Dari free tastes like soap and has no fat or protein, and even the hemp milk I can get is not calcium enriched. They will not consume large amounts of broccoli or almonds. I need to get them calcium from somewhere. They like vanilla soymilk and drink it happily. I like the unsweetened soymilk and we can cook with it and make nice creamy sauces. If dairy was an option for us I would use it instead...in fact I would probably buy raw whole milk....but it's not, and soy is working out for us.

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What are your thoughts on soy milk??? Thanks in advance!

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#17 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 01:32 AM
 
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I don't eat processed anything - so no processed soy, i.e. soy milk. Personally, I think if it's been processed, it's not as good for you as it could be.

I used to drink raw organic milk, but then I went vegan (for personal health reasons). Now, I don't really drink any dairy substitute beyond almond milk (which I make myself) and coconut milk.

Toddlers, though ... well, hopefully, I'd be breast feeding still. But, if circumstances prevented me, then I'd stick to organic goat's milk.

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#18 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 10:22 AM
 
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I don't eat processed anything - so no processed soy, i.e. soy milk. Personally, I think if it's been processed, it's not as good for you as it could be.
I've made soy milk before, the 'mush' that is left behind is excellent bread starter. I agree that too much soy is no good. Like, I have a hard time processing meat. So in response my mom bought "fake meat" and everything soy, soy cheese, milk, meat, everything. It screwed up my hormones, but an occasional tofu dish or glass of soy isn't going to end your life. If you are ve*an it's unhealthy to live your life off processed soy replacements.

If goat is out of the question for you I would research alternate "formulas" like something smoothie esk that you can whip up that is nutritionally complete and feed.

I've never been able to drink a glass of milk and aside from booba milk I wouldn't expect my kids too. I think the peds who go to cows milk are being outrageous. If you can't BF you use formula or another humans milk ( not is this society) not bovine milk. I've always thought that was silly. Plus, if you are trying to live sustainable, cows are hard work!

HTH keep us updated on what you choose and what your ped says!

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#19 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 10:29 AM
 
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I'd look into a source of local, organic, preferably grass/pasture-fed raw milk. Goat or cow, either one would be better by far than soy milk, IMO. If those are not an option, then I'd look into getting a soy-milk maker and buying your own organic soybeans and making your own soymilk. Its not hard. My dad has a soymilk maker thing, and you just soak soybeans for a day, then put'm in and little bit later you have your own, fresh, additive free, soy milk.
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#20 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 11:22 AM
 
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My son is allergic to dairy and obviously doesn't drink milk. I don't think soy milk is remotely healthy at all so he mostly drinks water and has a little rice milk with meals.
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#21 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 11:38 AM
 
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No soy milk. Ick. If you look at the Asian diet, they eat tofu and fermented soy sauce. They're not big into soy everything like the SAD. We eat the wrong kinds of soy here because we think it's nutritious. We use rice milk and coconut milk in recipes. We drink water. We get our nutrients from food, including calcium.

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#22 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 12:05 PM
 
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I too would not use soy milk. We used to be vegan and had health problems because of soy.

Here is a good article and video..

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...unhealthy.aspx

There is also some evidence that soy can cause brain damage because it impaires and harms the thyriod. Hormones affect the development of the brain.
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#23 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 01:04 PM
 
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Along the lines of what you want, nutritionally, from milk... we eat a lot of eggs, and if you don't have allergies, they've got a lot of great nutrition. I'm not sure how long kids need dietary cholesterol (I weaned my son when he was 21mos old, he's 2.5y now), but between that and a wide variety of amino acids and vitamins and minerals, eggs are good.
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#24 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 01:38 PM
 
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I was told by one my doctors that soy milk is not good for you. I can not remember the reason for it, but when I heard that I was really shocked.
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#25 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 03:07 PM
 
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I'm wary of processed soy, especially for little boys. Tiny amounts I think can't hurt, but if you're going to be giving several cups of soy milk a day, that's a lot, and we still don't have any genuinely reliable answers on whether soy is harmful.

What you want from milk primarily is protein, cholesterol and other fats, and calcium, right? You can get calcium from fortified orange juice, if all else fails. And organic eggs will get you the protein and fats. So will unsweetened organic whole-fat yogurt, and that will provide probiotics for gut health, too. If your LO will eat those things, then I'd say you don't need milk at all. But if you're dealing with a picky eater, or a child with allergies, or a vegan child, and breastmilk isn't available, I'd be giving commercial formula of some kind. I'd be careful of rice milk and other milks like that, because of the lack of protein and fat in them. I'd be worried that the child might be filling up on those milks and missing out on essential nutrients.

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#26 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 03:15 PM
 
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Under age two I'd be giving formula and beyond that, organic cows milk or goat milk. If I couldn't give that I'd go with a nut milk like almond..preferably made at home.

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#27 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 03:50 PM
 
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I'm extremely leery of consuming products fortified with calcium. Whole milk contains calcium plus magnesium, vitamin D, and other co-factors that help us absorb and use the calcium. Bone broths contain calcium, magnesium, and other minerals in biologically appropriate amounts. Whole almonds contain calcium along with other minerals and vitamins. Every single natural food source of calcium doesn't contain ONLY calcium.

But most "calcium fortified" orange juice, soymilk, etc contain calcium carbonate- sometimes with vitamin D but never with any other minerals to balance it out. I don't think this is a very usable format, and I think I read somewhere that this "unabsorbed calcium" is more likely to cause kidney stones than to be used productively by the body.

I do purchase ready-made almond or rice milk on occasion, and I've bought soymilk in the past, but I usually go out of my way to AVOID the ones with added calcium.

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#28 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 03:56 PM
 
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clearly, every body is different, but we've never had problems with a vegetarian diet. In fact, once I quit meat entirely 10 years ago, I'd argue that I've never felt better. I believe in moderation for everything, and that goes the same for soy. Everything I've read implies that you have to really eat a LOT of soy to have the hormonal issues, but I don't read up on it constantly. Dairy was a big problem for me, and I cut back on it significantly about 12 years ago: not completely - that's very difficult with the insidious nature of casein - but I also can't find a suitable cheese that works for me. We use a fair amount of soy milk - the unsweetened type, non-GMO. My kids will drink a small cup of it a couple times a week, and we mostly just use it for cereal and cooking. We love edamame and cook with tofu often, but still - none of these are overwhelming our diet to the point that I consider them risky.

Variety in protein is the key, I believe - we do still eat fish, even though I'm having a hard time with that, the more I think about it. And we like quorn & TVP. Again, not enough of any one thing to justify being worried about it. Trying to increase our beans, but sometimes kids are too picky!

As for a doctor saying a 15mo NEEDS milk - at his age, maybe he needs something fortified, but I don't think that's an argument for bottles of any type of milk at his age.

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#29 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 03:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Personally, if I had a child under two, for whom human milk was not an option, I would use a formula of some sort. If a formula was not possible, I would use an animal milk. Probably goat's would be my first choice.

-Angela
Yes. Our family switched to goat's milk just last week. I like it and the girls drink it like they don't have a problem with it. Soy is not good in my opinion and cow's milk is not an option for us.
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#30 of 47 Old 10-24-2008, 05:56 PM
 
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my opinion is that processed, non-fermented soy is not great for a person on a daily basis. healthful soy foods in my opinion would be edemame (boiled and salted whole soy beans which my kids like a lot dipped in shoyu) or naturally fermented tempeh or other fermented soy product like soy yogurt. the phytoestrogens in soy milk and formula have been researched to have a possible link to testicular and other cancers later in life for boys, so while a baby/child may tolerate soy milk or formula the long term safety is questionable imho.

is you abjection to animal derived milk about the often ill treatment of animals or just a general vegetarian diet or another reason? how i combat the dominant paradigm on animal products in the usa generally being derived from factory farmed and antibiotic fed animals is by buying locally produced animal products from farmers that treat the animals well, feeding them their natural diet that has not been treated with pesticides or other chemicals (in the case of cows/goats this would be primarily or exclusively grass). the cow milk i buy is certified organic, locally produced in my state, from grassfed cows and unhomogenized with no added vitamins. it is also low-tempreture pasturized rather then ultra high temp pasturized which kills all living enzymes in milk. i feel comfortable feeding my family this milk, i pay a hefty price for it but it is worth it to me.
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