Does anyone else have insuffient glandular tissue? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 137 Old 04-06-2004, 03:32 PM
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i started a new thread-didn't want to high-jack this one.
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#32 of 137 Old 04-06-2004, 08:16 PM
 
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My daughter is now 6 weeks old. She weighs 9 lbs. 11oz. This is great! My last three babies struggled with putting on weight for almost five months!!

I have given up on the SNS. I found that her latch was getting sloppy because I was so focused on trying to get that stupid tube in her mouth right. I found my nipples getting sore. So, I stopped. She drinks from an Avent bottle.

I have accepted the amount of milk that I can produce is not enough. When she nurses and I don't hear any swallowing for a while, I take her off and switch sides. When she is finished, she drinks her bottle of formula...between 2-3 ounces a feeding. Trying to get her to drink more is impossible. She takes forever to drink the amount I give her as it is! I say she drinks about 15-20 ounces a day. She nurses exclusively all night.

Her poops have greatly increased. You don't know how happy it makes me to see those yellow, cottage-cheesy poops!! Its ridiculous, but true. Her other poops look dark green and smell nasty. But to see those bf diapers make me feel good that she is indeed getting something from me.

I just read an article about women being deficient in Omega-3's having a hard time producing enough milk for their infants. Its becoming very common with women in the U.S eating a SAD. Soooo, this could explain how many women I'm reading having such a hard time producing milk. I'm going to the health food store this week and buying myself some flax seed oil. My daughter can drink a few drops too.

I'll let you know if this helps!
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#33 of 137 Old 04-06-2004, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My son Peter is now just over 3 months. He was 12 lbs. 11 oz. three weeks ago. So I'm sure he is well over 13 lbs. now. He had a real growth spurt about 6 weeks ago and went from taking 9 oz of formula a day to 16 oz.

I was using the starter SNS, the one that holds 3 oz. and was having to use it for every feeding. So I switched to the 6 oz SNS and now use it 3 times a day, bf only other times during the day and at night. I'm still taking domperidone.

From my experience of bfing three children I think that my body simply has an upper limit of what it can produce. This is depressing, but I have to remind myself that what I am producing is probably about 20 oz - nothing to sneeze at. Those cans of formula powder that I have a love/hate relationship with would be used up alot faster if I was not nursing. I also have the experience of bf my older son for 16 months, so I know that a long duration is possible even if quanitity is not.

So we're at the point where we can continue like this indefinately and I'm feeling better about it all the time. I read in the "Defining your own success" book that the amount of antibodies in a woman's breastmilk increases as the amount of breastmilk decreases. Meaning that I am still giving my son the full health benefits of nursing while only nursing parttime.

p.s. I also LOVE those yellow seedy poops!
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#34 of 137 Old 04-26-2004, 02:14 PM
 
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This is the support I've been looking for. Have 19 month old twins, but was only able to bf for 5 months and even then was supplementing each feed with a few ounces of formula. Have a newborn and tried to exclusively bf. Lactation consultant commented on how small breasts looked (not tubular just flat-chested) and asked if they expanded during pregancy. I commented that they did not seem fuller. The baby latched on right away and appeared to be getting colostrum so she said not too worry. Milk came in on day three. Unfortunately, baby lost weight and appeared slightly jaundiced. She lost too much weight at first and ped. said to supplement with formula as I had done with twins. Baby pooped at every feed. It was seedy. At 4 week checkup, the pediatrician commented on how she seemed to be getting most from the breast b/c of how great her poop looked and how frequently she went. Weight was back up past birth weight. I was so excited. But now at 6 weeks, my supply has dropped. I'm only getting one ounce each time I pump. Baby is only pooping once a day. Am trying fenugreek and thistle. I'm on day 2 but it doesn't seem to be helping. Any advice?
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#35 of 137 Old 04-26-2004, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi 3under2! I'm glad you found this thread.

I can only give advice based on my experience. If you are like me then it's not that your milk supply has dropped, it's that it hasn't kept up with your baby's increased needs. Don't look at the pump to determine how much you are making. Most babies need 2.5 ounces of milk per pound of body weight per day. If (for instance) your baby weighs 8 lbs then she will need 20 ounces of milk. If you are giving 10 ounces of formula then you are making 10 ounces.

I have found (after experiencing 3 children) that my body takes a long time to catch up to my child's needs and probably has a maximum amount that it will produce. Right now my 4 month old weighs 13 lbs, and takes about 18 ounces of formula so I am making at least 15 ounces. The amount of formula that he receives has not changed in at least a month so I know I must be making more than I was a month ago.

Some ideas: Be sure to use some kind of at-breast supplementer. Read the book "Defining your own success" by Diana West, it's about women who have had breast reductions, but it absolutely applies to us. Just keep at it. My second child probably only took 2-3 feedings a day from the breast but we just kept going and he breastfed until 15 months old. My current baby is doing even better than that. You may want to try Domperidone. I have been taking 120 mg. a day since 4 weeks old and I think it has made a difference.

Good luck and keep in touch.
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#36 of 137 Old 04-27-2004, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My ds was just weighed today and he is 14.5 pounds! So I am producing even more breastmilk than I thought I was!
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#37 of 137 Old 04-27-2004, 02:17 PM
 
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thats great
i think i may be too, even though doesnt seem like it, but if that formula is true and works then i am producing 15 ounces. Doesnt seem possible!!! could my ds need less than the 2.5 ounces per pound?

even if not true for us, makes me feel good too think i may be producing 15!!!!!!

im just glad that i stuck it through,it was worth keeping at it even though upsetting at the time, and felt like would be easier to quit. But i now have a very healthy and well baby, whom i love feeding, i am now so comfortable with the sns that i find way easier than a bottle.
its thanks to everyones support here that i made it this far, and continue to every day.

the lady at the post office asked me today if i was breastfeeding, and i said i did but supplemented (my usual answer as feel guilty if dont add that use formula, like im not being truthful). anyhow she said that she could tell he was breastfed as looked so well and healthy and a contented baby!!! it made me feel great, its so all worth it.
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#38 of 137 Old 04-28-2004, 08:27 PM
 
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Thx. Corriander for the suggestions! Tried SNS, but it was rather cumbersome or should I say comical to try to use and chase after toddlers. Formula flying everywhere. The fenugreek, pumping, oatmeal, and/or water seem to be working. Seems like the supply is starting to go up. Thx for the 2.5 oz. per lb. formula. Now I'll really be able to check and monitor any progress.
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#39 of 137 Old 06-04-2004, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi,

Just wanted to post an update on us and keep this thread alive for anyone who needs it.

My ds is now 5 months old. We have almost completely given up the SNS. I'll use it about once a week. When I saw that he had no trouble going from bottle to breast it was easy to give up the cumberson SNS.

He has started solids and that seems to have decreased his need for formula without decreasing my supply. He will take between 12-18 oz. of formula a day, depending on how much solids he eats I guess. So I figure that I'm producing at least 25 oz. of breastmilk a day. Before solids he was taking as much as 20 oz. of formula.

I am still on domperidone, though I have dropped my dosage down to 80 mg from 120 mg.

I am happy to say that I have (finally, after 3 children) come to peace with my situation and accepted that I cannot exclusively breastfeed a child. Gone are the days of constantly researching for new herbs to try, fruitless pumping, measuring out meager amounts of formula and dispairing when I realize that he needs more and more. I can now relax and enjoy what I have: a happy breastfed child who LOVES the breast, needs it to relax and fall asleep, who needs some extra calories from formula but who is getting all the benefits of breastmilk from me.

I would like to read updates on everyone else who has responded to this thread in the past. It would be great to hear how everyone is doing.
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#40 of 137 Old 06-14-2004, 04:59 PM
 
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For the longest time I have been searching the net and other bfing support groups to find other moms with igt and almost everyones post on mdc told my story. I was determined to bf and was told my small breasts wouldn't slow me down.. I tried everything, fenugreek, brewers yeast, big bowls of oatmeal, mother's milk tea, super switch nursing, double pumping with a hg pump, sns, and finally reglan.. the only thing i didnt take was dom, planned on it with next kid but now with the crackdown on it who knows.. I am just glad to be able to talk to other moms who deal with the regret of not supping earlier and the embarassment of bottle feeding in public... Just think some ladies are worried about breastfeeding in public and we get more nervous about bottlefeeding : it is always something isnt it?

for those moms who breastfed for an extended timeframe (12+ months) any hints? did you only use sns? or were you able to breast and bottle? and when or is there an age the breast and solids were enough? I think i produce around 18 oz if that helps...

Thanx and good luck to everyone!
Jenn
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#41 of 137 Old 06-14-2004, 05:16 PM
 
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Have you ever checked out the book Nursing Mothers Herbal??? Fantastic resource I thought I'd pass along!!! Great info about increasing milk!!! All the best,

I have retired from administration work, so if you have a question about anything MDC-related, please contact Cynthia Mosher. Thanks!
 
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#42 of 137 Old 06-14-2004, 05:35 PM
 
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I wish I would've found this forum 5 wks ago. I stopped BFing then (my son is 8 wks). 2nd baby, same story- no engorgement, pump 1/2 oz with good pump. At least this one didn't get dehydrated because we started supplementing in the hospital under LCs guidance. It was so frustrating and time-consuming pumping, nursing, bottlefeeding, and trying the SNS (not to speak of also mothering a 3 yr old) that I finally quit. I felt like I was spending more time with the equipment than with my baby. If I had read your posts I might've continued comfort nursing. I don't feel like a failure when I'm bottle-feeding, I feel like one when I'm nursing. I thought about relactating, but the effort involved seems impossible, plus I've started taking Lamisil tablets and I don't think they're compatible with BF. I know I'm a good mom: I wanted nothing more than to exclusively nurse my babies for extended time. I'm angry, feeling guilty, and betrayed by my body. Because I've been through this before I thought I was OK with all this. I'm feeling sad now. Any support, encouragement would be helpful. Thanks!
P.S. Unlike some other members, I hated the SNS- it was hard enough to get him to latch on correctly to me, much less with the tube in his mouth, then most of the time I wouldn't have it positioned right, so I had to squeeze it adn then it would leak all over me. After 20 minutes, he would only have drank half of what he needed to, so I would have to bottle feed the rest of it. The SNS sounds great in theory, but I thought "you try sucking through this tiny tube, and tell me how easy it is!"
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#43 of 137 Old 06-15-2004, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Steph,

Yes, the SNS is difficult to use. It took me 3 kids to really get the hang of it. And I stopped using it regularly (for my most recent child) at 3 months when I realized that my ds can go breast to bottle without problem. I know what you mean about feeling like a failure when nursing - at least I used to feel that way. I quit nursing my first child at 6 months for all the reasons you described and it took therapy to really get over it.

CrunchyJen,

I breastfed my second child for 16 months, so yes it can be done with a partial supply. I think my supply is about the same as yours - maybe 20 oz. After 12 months I would nurse him 2-3 times times a day and it became apparent that as long as I kept it up he was very eager also, and we could have continued indefinately.

Have you read "Defining your own success"? It is written for moms breastfeeding after a breast reduction, but otherwise it completely applies to us. It describes how to bottlefeed without discouraging your own supply. Essentially always breastfeed first and then follow up with a bottle, not the other way around. I couldn't recommend this book more! It really changed my outlook. I still open it randomly and feel better after reading a page or two.

For me it took accepting that I could never fully breastfeed a child before I could finally move on with confidence. I even breastfeed and then bottle feed in public now. I used to think that people would think me strange for doing both.
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#44 of 137 Old 06-18-2004, 01:51 PM
 
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What's hard is that you're not totally understood or accepted by either the bfing crowd or the ffing crowd. My BFing friends were sympathetic and supportive because they saw how hard I worked at it, but they didn't completely understand it because they had "normal" BFing problems (engorgement, mastitis, baby nursing all the time, etc), but not problems with supply. And my FFing friends didn't really understand what all the fuss was about, why I was still trying after 2 1/2 mos (with my 1st ds), just give him a bottle and get over it. BFing friends can relate a little to the grieving, they relate it to weaning. But FFing friends were either so relieved to change from BFing to FFing, or never wanted to BF in the 1st place. So forums like this one is the only place where I can come and breathe a little sigh of relief that I'm not alone.

I was thinking more about why I quit at 3 wks. My 2nd ds sleeps well at night-he wakes up once to eat then goes to sleep. I was remembering those 1st couple weeks, nursing for 20 min (it would take that long for him to get my 1/2 oz I'm sure, let-down on the pump took 5-10 min) then bottlefeeding him for however long it took for him to eat 2-3 oz. The whole shebang took 45-60 min, then pumping! And this was every 2-3 hrs! No wonder I quit. And in my case I think the pump was more effective than the child. I believe that because of my low supply he developed an ineffective suck, rather than the other way around (my 1st ds did this too). And he kept falling asleep because there wasn't much milk. It just seemed to take a lot of energy for him.

Does it make anyone else mad to have friends who didn't choose to BF get a milk supply/engorgement? I would've given my right arm to experience that.

When I look at the pics of hypoplastic breasts on that website, mine don't look as extreme. I have fullness on the outsides of my breasts, but the insides lack fullness. And definitely asymmetrical, with the lrgr one producing more (although he preferred the smlr one). And they're not that small- about a C cup. I didn't experience much growth during pregnancy- I couldn't fit into my tighter bras, but I could still fit into the looser ones. Although this time I experienced more sensitivity, achiness, itching, etc. Is that a good sign for next time? AND- while I was nursing I actually had some lumpiness if I hadn't nursed or pumped for a while. I was excited about that!
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#45 of 137 Old 06-24-2004, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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since I bottlefeed and breastfeed (usually one immediately after the other) I think that there are some folks who just don't know what to think about me. But no one has EVER commented or asked. It is a real blessing to finally have the confidence to not care what anyone thinks and just do what I need to to feed my baby, but I couldn't tell you exactly how it came about.

My ds just got over an injury to his mouth that he got from a fall. For a day and a half he would not bf or bottle feed. I got really engorged which felt sort of nice for about an hour - then it was really painful. Thank goodness I have a pump, but it was so irritating to pump. I could never do it to increase my supply for longer than a week. I don't think it was working and it just took too much time.

for me bf did get easier for each child. But I couldn't say if that is really because things improved for me physically or if the previous experience just made me know how to handle things better.
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#46 of 137 Old 07-06-2004, 06:38 PM
 
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Corey: How long do you BF, and then how long does it take your kiddo to FF after that?

DS is now 11 wks old, and I really regret quitting at 3 wks. I have found some info on relactating, but it sounds so difficult. And with the sml supply I had in the 1st place, I'm not sure if it would even work. I don't know if he would even latch on. Does anyone have experience w/this? Maybe its time to let it go.

Stephanie
Sean (3/5/01)
Matthew (4/21/04)
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#47 of 137 Old 07-20-2004, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Steph,

I just got back from vacation so that's why I haven't responded. If I am reading your question right... my ds usually bfs for about 10 minutes before he has drained the breast and then I give a bottle. I try to bf before every bottle, but the last two weeks vacation kinda screwed with that.
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#48 of 137 Old 07-21-2004, 04:37 AM
 
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Hello!
I have this same problem. I am pregnant with #4 and can't believe I am even pondering getting out the SNS again! Ah-what mothers will do. It is late and I need to get to sleep, but I truly look forward to coming here for support. That is so great you kept it up for 16 months! My hero! My last breastfed for about 5 months. They just seem to lose interest. I would love to keep it up this time for longer though. I had to laugh when you talked about people wondering when you give a bottle and breast. I have gotten those looks too-how funny.
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#49 of 137 Old 07-26-2004, 04:06 PM
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"I consider myself a breastfeeder, but I find that I always have to explain myself in the company of breastfeeders and then I feel like a fraud."

I certainly feel that way sometimes! It is a shame that we not only feel like failures, we feel like oddities or frauds around those who successfully BF. It's like a competition or something.

My husband and I have thought about having a second child;, we haven't decided yet...sometimes I think about having another and then wonder am I going to fail again and have to use formula for my second child? Can my psyche stand another failure to BF?

Good luck to everyone who is still trying!
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#50 of 137 Old 07-26-2004, 04:10 PM
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I also felt like I was spending more time with the equipment than my baby, and the BF was session after session of crying for both of us. Whereas with a bottle at least I could peacefully feed him and he would be satisfied and full afterwards. I wish I had pumped longer but like you said, it is very time-consuming and I eventually quit. I too feel like a good mom and I know I did the best I could under the circumstance. I wish we could stop beating ourselves up over this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steph1
I wish I would've found this forum 5 wks ago. I stopped BFing then (my son is 8 wks). 2nd baby, same story- no engorgement, pump 1/2 oz with good pump. At least this one didn't get dehydrated because we started supplementing in the hospital under LCs guidance. It was so frustrating and time-consuming pumping, nursing, bottlefeeding, and trying the SNS (not to speak of also mothering a 3 yr old) that I finally quit. I felt like I was spending more time with the equipment than with my baby. If I had read your posts I might've continued comfort nursing. I don't feel like a failure when I'm bottle-feeding, I feel like one when I'm nursing. I thought about relactating, but the effort involved seems impossible, plus I've started taking Lamisil tablets and I don't think they're compatible with BF. I know I'm a good mom: I wanted nothing more than to exclusively nurse my babies for extended time. I'm angry, feeling guilty, and betrayed by my body. Because I've been through this before I thought I was OK with all this. I'm feeling sad now. Any support, encouragement would be helpful. Thanks!
P.S. Unlike some other members, I hated the SNS- it was hard enough to get him to latch on correctly to me, much less with the tube in his mouth, then most of the time I wouldn't have it positioned right, so I had to squeeze it adn then it would leak all over me. After 20 minutes, he would only have drank half of what he needed to, so I would have to bottle feed the rest of it. The SNS sounds great in theory, but I thought "you try sucking through this tiny tube, and tell me how easy it is!"
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#51 of 137 Old 07-29-2004, 09:26 AM
 
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Some women might benefit from the treatment described below.
But please don't do it on your own. One has to be so careful with hormones. And maybe this would only work for those who already have problems with ovulation/progesterone. Just a thought.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entre...&dopt=Abstract

Patient with insufficient glandular tissue experiences milk supply increase attributed to progesterone treatment for luteal phase defect.

Bodley V, Powers D.

Deaconess Family Birth Center, MT, USA.

A case report is presented on the experience of a mother diagnosed with insufficient glandular tissue at 3 months postpartum with her first child who then went on to breastfeed her second child (fifth pregnancy) without supplementation of any kind. The mother had difficulty becoming pregnant and maintaining a pregnancy. She was diagnosed with a luteal phase defect and was thus treated with natural progesterone during her fifth pregnancy. The authors speculate that this treatment may have stimulated the development of her mammary alveolar cells, allowing lactation to progress normally.
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#52 of 137 Old 08-13-2004, 02:20 PM
 
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Well that is certainly interesting. Any thoughts?
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#53 of 137 Old 08-14-2004, 09:43 PM
 
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That info is interesting!
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#54 of 137 Old 08-17-2004, 02:38 AM
 
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I was wondering the exact same thing, Auburn. I have had trouble finding a source for Goat's Rue. How about you?
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#55 of 137 Old 08-17-2004, 10:10 AM
 
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You can get goat's rue in tincture form at www.motherlove.com .

Come visit the NEW QuirkyBaby website -- earn QB Bucks rewards points for purchases, reviews, referrals, and more! Free US shipping on great brands of baby slings and carriers and FREE BabyLegs or babywearing mirror on orders of $100+. Take the QB Quiz for personalized advice!

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#56 of 137 Old 08-19-2004, 03:16 AM
 
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Thanks for the link!
Has anyone had any success with Goat's Rue?
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#57 of 137 Old 08-20-2004, 02:04 AM
 
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Lavendermama,

Glad someone else provided the link! I think the goat's rue is not safe to take during pregnancy, if I read correctly. You might want to check that out.

Auburn
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#58 of 137 Old 08-20-2004, 11:30 PM
 
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This is my first post, so forgive me in advance!

My DD Larisa was born in late May, and I found I was unable to nurse due to insufficient tissue. I had very slight breast changes during my pregnancy. Nobody really told me that I had insufficient tissue, but my LC told me to give up with pumping, etc, and use a bottle.

I'm too stubborn for that.

I used the SNS for a while, until my midwife let me know about the Lact-Aid (IMHO, much easier to use.) I took fennel and blessed thistle, did everything I could think of. DD is almost 3 months now, I'm still using the Lact-Aid, and I'm still ambivalent about how long I should (I'd like to make it to 6 months.) I shed a lot of tears right after Larisa was born, when the hospital LC looked at me with sad eyes and said that she wished everyone who wanted to BF could, and that everyone who could, would.

Anyway, I found this thread and wanted to put in my two cents. Lord knows what I'm going to do with my next child. I'm already stressing about that, and Larisa isn't even 3 months old!
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#59 of 137 Old 08-21-2004, 01:03 AM
 
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Sara,
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#60 of 137 Old 08-21-2004, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Larastheme,

You have done a great job to use the Lactaid or SNS for 3 months. Your dd is probably long past having any potential for nipple confusion. If you do at some point decide to use a bottle then you can BOTH bf and bottlefeed. I was able to do this for 16 months with my son. The hardest part for me is always dealing with what I just KNOW others are thinking of me when they see me doing both.

My almost 8 month old ds nurses and then follows up with a bottle 3 times a day as well as eating 3 meals a day in solids. The fact that he took to solids so eagerly has kept his intake of formula below 12 oz. a day for sometime now. He weighs about 20 lbs. I know that I can just continue this routine as long as he wants it.

Good luck and keep up the good work!
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