Low-Milk Supply Tribe - Page 19 - Mothering Forums

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#541 of 1093 Old 01-07-2006, 02:19 AM
 
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Erin: check out the four friends website, they run a "relactation boot camp". Also kellymom.com has some relactation info. good luck!

Claudia: but I hope that you take pride in the fact that you nursed your baby til he weaned himself!!!! That is SUPER!

xo to all, j

: mama to T 9/04 and E 11/08
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#542 of 1093 Old 01-07-2006, 03:28 PM
 
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I just HAD to share!!! Last night I was feeling pretty full on one side. She only nurses 4 times a day and I pump twice a day. So last night I decided to nurse her WITHOUT THE SNS on one side and see how she did. Well, she sucked hard enough for me to let down and it must have been too much for her because she pulled off and milk was still spraying out. How happy was I!? :

I mean, I've heard of that happening to other women...but here it happened to a low-supply mama! WooHoo!!!!!
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#543 of 1093 Old 01-07-2006, 06:50 PM
 
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You can do it!
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#544 of 1093 Old 01-07-2006, 07:05 PM
 
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Thanks for the suggestions, Greensleeves

Some good news -- DS is four weeks old today, I weighed him this morning and he hit the 8 lb mark! This is huge for us!! He seems to be gaining about an ounce a day so far this week (PLEASE let this continue).

I had been doing the "nipple sandwich" but then the LC showed me this new technique where you raise the nipple with your thumb and sort of fold it into his mouth (hard to explain) -- hinging his head forward. Is that the RAM technique you mentioned? Anyway when she came back yesterday she said she thought his latch was not so bad after all, though he generally has much more of the upper than lower areola in his mouth. I have been trying both techniques depending on his mood and if he seems willing to try something new. It still seems like he's not getting enough breast in his mouth but who knows?

I do have the My Brest Friend pillow and like it a lot

I guess I am still worried about his weak suck though -- and am going to get some names of Cranio-sacral therapists from the LC on Monday.

Oy -- so far these breastfeeding woes have been costing an utter fortune -- but it's a worthy investment. I really feel for mamas who don't have the kind of financial resources to see LCs, CSTs, etc. My insurance doesn't cover them.
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#545 of 1093 Old 01-08-2006, 06:00 PM
 
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Popping my head in here to say "hi". I haven't posted here in a while after my introduction to the Low-Milk Supply Tribe.

I have two questions for you other low-milk mamas. Hope you can help me. I'm on domperidome. It has helped my supply a lot but I've noticed that if I cut back on it my supply goes down. How long can I safely stay on it?

Question number two is something I wondered about after my doctor told me not to take me iron supplements with calcium. The benefits of iron are reduced by the presence of calcium. In the same way, if I give DD breastmilk and follow it up with formula are the benefits of my milk reduced by the presence of the formula?

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#546 of 1093 Old 01-08-2006, 06:10 PM
 
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if you are not having uncomfortable side effects from the domperidone, i would think you could stay on it for quite a while (a year or more) as it was designed as a digestive helping pharmaceutical. i don't have specific research, but dr. jack newman did a bunch of research on it so his website might help.

and as for following up breastmilk by giving formula, what specifically are you concerned with reducing? the whole iron/ calcium thing or just the health benefits of breastmilk in general? because in my thought process, the breastmilk is going in her stomach first and then into the rest of baby's digestive system and "prepping" it, so that when formula comes through, she's gotten the initial good effects of the breastmilk and then simply finishes getting a full tummy with more alternative milk. i think that's just my philosophy, though, and not really based on any research.

~claudia
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#547 of 1093 Old 01-08-2006, 07:51 PM
 
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I agree with Claudia - any and all breastmilk is good, even if you have to supplement with formula. Dr. Newman has some research on supplementing with solids as early as 3 months, thereby replacing icky formula with something more healthful - mashed bananas, avocado, rice cereal, etc. His theory is something like breastmilk helps the digestive system mature faster and work better and therefore breastfed babies can accept solids earlier than formula-fed babies if necessary for supplementation. I'm totally paraphrasing all that info, but it was something to that effect.
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#548 of 1093 Old 01-09-2006, 03:22 AM
 
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Thanks ladies! I'm actually not having any bad side-effects from the domperidome. I had mild headaches at first but they seem to have gone away. I sometimes feel like I have to use the bathroom more frequently. Sorry, TMI.

I'm not concerned about iron or calcium. I just used that as an example of how one substance might be better taken alone than without another. I probably didn't explain myself well. I was concerned that whatever benefits DD was getting from my milk was being reduced by the presence of the formula that she also gets soon after. But if that's not the case then I'm happy.

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#549 of 1093 Old 01-10-2006, 02:12 AM
 
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I had low milk supply issues with my first son and my midwife thinks it's because of the mini-pills I was taking even though the OB/GYN I was with at the time insisted that it wouldn't harm my milk. Midwife says that it does and I supplemented because he was so hungry even after I would nurse for an hour(30 min. each breast) It was very hard for me the first few months and I felt like a failure( Breast infections, PPD as a result of bf issues, etc.). My next baby is due in a few weeks and I really want to avoid that kind of heartache. I've heard of Fenugreek and Fennel, so I will try drinking more of the teas this time around and I will try to stay positive. It's so hard when so many people around me never even WANTED to try to nurse and are not very encouraging about it--including my own Mother. My husband--thankfully enough is very supportive coming from a mother who bf him and five other siblings and a sister who bf her kids. For so long, I felt guilty about supplementing and beat myself up about it even though I continued to nurse until my son naturally weened at 9 and a half months. It's good to know there are people out there who have been through it or are going through it now.
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#550 of 1093 Old 01-10-2006, 10:00 AM
 
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Yes! Those mini-pills CAN hurt supply. Unless you are an over-supply mom, avoid them at all cost! In the first few weeks (actually I think it's 3 mos, but someone correct me if I'm wront), milk supply is hormone-driven. The best thing you can do for supply is nurse nurse nurse nurse nurse!!! After that it's more supply & demand-driven. If you end up having to supplement in the first few weeks, use an SNS-feeder. You may want to get one now since you've had problems in the past. I like the Medela SNS, but there is a lact-aid system that some people like. Check ebay for used ones that you can sterlize. I actually have a lact-aid system I'm going to list on ebay, but if you're interested in buying it, let me know. Before you go with the peds. recommendation to supplement (if they do end up recommending that), check in here with MDC - esp. the BF'ing support & advocacy forum. Don't just blindly follow the ped, kwim?

Welcome to our low milk supply tribe! Here's hoping your stay in it will be short-lived.
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#551 of 1093 Old 01-10-2006, 03:45 PM
 
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Marcy I'm way late in saying this but for your let-down and spraying milk. I've never experienced my milk letting down much less milk spraying out without me squeezing pretty firmly, so I know I would be on the phone calling every single person I know if something like that happened to me what a feeling of success!!!

bibadiva you might considering buying bottles of motherlove More milk plus supplement, it's got lots of the herbs in it for lactation but you don't have to go out of your way to drink lots and lots of tea every day - although it's a great way to get all of that extra fluid you need for nursing. It's just really concentrated and a good way to make sure you're getting as much as you can of those beneficial galactagogues.

Although I hate the fact that I know that word so well, I love the way it sounds rolling off the tongue... galactagogue. xo jen

: mama to T 9/04 and E 11/08
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#552 of 1093 Old 01-10-2006, 04:48 PM
 
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Thank you to MarcyC and JenInMpls for your tips and words of encouragement. MIdwife did mention the SNS feeder should I have the same problems this time around. Never heard of MotherLove More Milk Plus supplement, but I'm searching for it now. I want to see what other alternatives are out there because it's important for me to be more informed than I was the first time around. Switching peds helped me alot-- the first pediatrician was all for giving him formula and even told me that since I was having so many problems with the nursing that I should quit and just formula feed only. Now I have a Holistic ped who is a member of various lactation associations, so that will help me out alot as well.
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#553 of 1093 Old 01-13-2006, 07:56 PM
 
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Motherlove is at:

http://www.motherlove.com/products_extracts.php

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#554 of 1093 Old 01-23-2006, 12:50 PM
 
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hi, i've also got low supply due to having a reduction 2 1/2 years ago. i was told i'd never breastfeed and yet my dd turned 6 mo last week, and i still am!

i was taking reglan 1 week/month, and fenugreek 3-4x a day. but now that we think i may be pg again, i've stopped both- need to find out if im pg or not to continue those meds!!
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#555 of 1093 Old 01-23-2006, 01:15 PM
 
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remember domperidone, too. It's much milder than reglan in terms of adverse side-effects.

And you can take other galactagogues: goat's rue and oat (avena sativa) come to mind. If you are pregnant, be sure to coordinate with your midwife and an herbalist about taking galactagogues. There are some effective ones that are compatible with pregnancy.
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#556 of 1093 Old 01-23-2006, 02:34 PM
 
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Yeah, I think you're not supposed to take fenugreek when you are pregnant. Being pregnant might wreak havoc on your supply, however small (but hey! in my book, any milk is good milk!!) but if your bambina likes to nurse for the comfort you might be tandem nursing in a year and a few months

OK, I need some dancing vegetables:

: :

I weaned my son off of the SNS but not off of the breast!

He started being very willing to take milk from a sippy cup, and is able to differentiate between wanting milk and wanting to nurse, and we found that he really wasn't interested in that cup of milk overnight - he wanted mama. Now he nurses for 10 minutes and goes right back to sleep. It's so wonderful to not have to worry about bringing up a cooler before going to bed.

Whoopee! jen

: mama to T 9/04 and E 11/08
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#557 of 1093 Old 01-23-2006, 05:36 PM
 
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WooHoo, Jen!!!



That is awesome! We're SNS-free at night as well. Actually we're SNS-free at naptime, too! We only use the SNS for breakfast, lunch, dinner and bedtime. Before each nap (2 x day) she nurses w/o the SNS and any overnight feedings. Isn't it a good feeling!?
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#558 of 1093 Old 01-25-2006, 11:46 AM
 
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I posted this in the BF part infancy but didn't get much response. My 2yo is nightweaning himself. His schedule had been to get up 2-3x nightly to BF and then BF from 5AM-7AM each morning. Now he's skipping the nightly feedings and waking closer to 6AM to BF. I have breast hypoplasia and it's been a struggle for us to get to this point. I'm afraid now that my supply will get even worse now that he's not waking at night. I'm not ready for BF to end, and I know he's not ready either.

Will this have a huge negative effect on my supply? Is there anything I can do? On my other post someone suggested pumping at night to keep up supply. I produce no milk pumping, but would the stimulation of the pump be enough to help?

Any ideas? Thanks!

Mama to three wonderful boys and a fabulous baby girl.
My heartfelt thanks to all those that have donated milk to others; you are amazing
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#559 of 1093 Old 01-25-2006, 12:31 PM
 
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I'm no expert in this because for me, getting a good nights sleep always increased my supply. I'd wake up engorged...and engorgement for a low supply mom is a good thing, kwim?

I'd say to give the pumping at night a shot. It seems like I've read somewhere that even if you don't produce for the pump, the extra stimulation is good for supply.

Sometimes with low-supply there's a lot of trial and error (unfortunately the errors cost us a lot). Enjoy the extra sleep and let us know what works for you!
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#560 of 1093 Old 01-25-2006, 03:23 PM
 
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Nicole - is your bambino nursing for comfort or for food? I am in a situation like yours. Mine is a major comfort nurser, it seems he's learned that the supply is low and if he's hungry he walks around saying "eat! eat! eat" - but he's still definitely a nurser. When he wants to nurse, I think he doesn't give a rip if he gets little more than a teaspoon and sometimes I think he gets next to nothing, given that he may swallow twice in a minute. I guess that the pumping will help with breast stimulation but I am wondering - if he's nursing for comfort, will a slightly lower supply make a difference to him? Will he nurse less?

If he's not ready to wean, I don't think he will wean himself just because your supply goes down, especially considering that he is eating solids.

I have to second the getting more sleep thing. Pumping will stimulate your breasts but I would have to believe that sleeping will stimulate your whole person! You could also take More Milk Plus tincture or even try Domperidone. It definitely increased my supply when I tried it.

Curious what you think - Jen

: mama to T 9/04 and E 11/08
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#561 of 1093 Old 01-25-2006, 06:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamato2boys
I posted this in the BF part infancy but didn't get much response. My 2yo is nightweaning himself. His schedule had been to get up 2-3x nightly to BF and then BF from 5AM-7AM each morning. Now he's skipping the nightly feedings and waking closer to 6AM to BF. I have breast hypoplasia and it's been a struggle for us to get to this point. I'm afraid now that my supply will get even worse now that he's not waking at night. I'm not ready for BF to end, and I know he's not ready either.

Will this have a huge negative effect on my supply? Is there anything I can do? On my other post someone suggested pumping at night to keep up supply. I produce no milk pumping, but would the stimulation of the pump be enough to help?

Any ideas? Thanks!
Nicole -- WOW AWESOME to keep on against the odds for 2 years! Struggling with low supply is so hard.

I would imagine at this point, DS's diet is mostly solids? As Jen said, is he nursing for food or comfort? I think the advice about pumping / feeding in the middle of the night is good for people in the first year or so who are struggling with maintaining their supply. The only think I can say is try it both ways (sleeping vs. pumping). Personally, I think I would go for the sleep or just get up ONCE to pump for 10 minutes or so. (I know from experience when you get up on YOUR sleep schedule it's much easier than getting up according to someone ELSE's sleep schedule )

While I'm NOT suggesting that you wean, since neither of you is ready for taht -- is it possible your DS wants to night-wean? Is this what is meant by child-lead weaning? (*clueless*)

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#562 of 1093 Old 01-25-2006, 06:14 PM
 
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If you want to pump at night, go for it. But you don't necessarily need to have milk to keep nursing. My milk was gone around 16 mos, but my 24 mos ds still nurses. I know you want milk for your son, so do what you can to keep your supply going. Take galactagogues: oats [avena sativa], goat's rue, fenugreek, blessed thistle. Try pumping during the day, too. Sleep is good for milk production, too.
The stimulation of pumping may help the production, but my understanding is that supply is also about emptying the breasts, as well as stimulation.

I do agree with MaryJaneLouise that this sounds like child-led weaning, a natural process that should be supported (not necessarily encouraged or pushed, just supported) as needed by the child. If he's ready to nightwean, then I'd personally let him do so.

Sorry that wasn't much help.
-Lindsay
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#563 of 1093 Old 01-25-2006, 07:25 PM
 
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I'm glad you all seem to think that sleep will be better than pumping. I've really learned to enjoy more sleep and I wasn't looking foreward to giving that up

I think that he BF mostly for comfort. I had to suppliment with formula when he was an infant, he got about 1/2 of what he needed from me then. But, he gets really angry when he empties me out and isn't ready to stop BF. So it does matter to him if there is less milk. So far, he doesn't BF less, but I worry about that--now though he throws an absolute fit which isn't too fun either. If it becomes a problem I'll break out the fenugreek again, we had some success with that before. I agree with you all that he is nightweaning. I'm supporting that, I'm just SO not ready for him to completely wean. I know he's not ready for that yet; I suppose that the nightweaning has really made me think about the fact that our BF relationship will end at some time. I only BF his brothers for about 6mos max, after we introduced a bottle neither of them would take the breast, even with a SNS. I think our BF relationship and it's success contributed a lot to healing the pain of not being successful the first two times and having to suppliment. I suppose that's a lot of pressure to put onto my son.

Thanks much for the support!

Mama to three wonderful boys and a fabulous baby girl.
My heartfelt thanks to all those that have donated milk to others; you are amazing
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#564 of 1093 Old 01-26-2006, 03:09 PM
 
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My neighbor BF'd her son until he was over 3. She told me that she's sure towards the end of their nursing relationship she had no milk left. He just wanted the comfort of mom!
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#565 of 1093 Old 01-26-2006, 03:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamato2boys
But, he gets really angry when he empties me out and isn't ready to stop BF. So it does matter to him if there is less milk.
Isn't that the most horrid feeling, both physically & emotionally? I remember DS #2,who has always had the most perfect latch.... his little tongue would be pushing, pushing, rasping the dry breast.... so sad

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#566 of 1093 Old 01-26-2006, 05:29 PM
 
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Yeah, formula. Anyway, I know some of us use it, having no other option, and I therefore want to make this available to all of you before I go trying to freecycle them, as I would guess MDCers would be more into organic formula than your average freecyclin' joe. T just finished up formula this month and I had been saving the labels off of our Baby's Only Organic cans. I am sure I have enough for 2 free cans. If you can use it, please let me know. I will send you the UPCs if you give me your address. You have to send them in yourself to get your retail checks because they put your name and address on them.

Hopefully it is obvious, given that I have posted this to my low-supply sisters in our low-supply tribe, that I am not out to try to convince anyone to abandon breastfeeding in favor of feeding formula... just thought I'd try to help someone out who is in the same shoes. Wow, what a CYA statement! Anyway, lmk. jen

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#567 of 1093 Old 01-26-2006, 07:07 PM
 
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Hi low supply moms. I've never posted in this tribe, although I suffered from low supply from the very beginning with my DS. He's 16 months now, and I'm sad to say he's not nursing anymore. It was a long, hard road, full of Reglan, Fenugreek, constant pumping and nursing, and... well you all know how it goes!

Now that he's over one, DH and I are debating on what to give him in the absence of BM. I wanted to nurse until at least 2, but DS was never much of a comfort nurser so he didn't want to keep nursing when I was no longer making even a drop of milk. He was on regular formula in addition to my BM, and we got WIC for the first year. Since 12 mos, of course, we don't get the WIC formula anymore so we've been buying it ourselves which is $$$$$$ each month. We did switch to a toddler formula also.

DS will readily drink organic cow's milk when I offer it so I'm wondering if any of you mamas made the switch this young? We were hoping to go until 2 with the formula (since I wouldn've BF that long if I could've), but I just don't know if we can afford to keep buying it. And I keep reminding myself that even plenty of BF moms wean around a year and switch to cow's milk, and of course their babies are healthy. What do you mamas think?
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#568 of 1093 Old 01-26-2006, 08:37 PM
 
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our son is almost 20 months and gave up nursing at age 18.5 months. he was only nursing one time a day for at least 3-4 months before that, however. we have not replaced mama's milk with any other milks at this time. our son is quite the solid food eater, however, and makes up for his calories by eating almost as much food as either one of us adults eats at a sitting. he does eat a lot of cheese and yogurt so he's getting plenty of calcium and fat from those. i also add some udo's oil (EFAs) to his oatmeal most days, so he's getting good healthy fats from that, too. it sounds like you think he still wants some sort of milk (in a bottle or sippy or cup), but if that's not the case, i'm not aware of a reason to replace human milk or substitute human milk with cow milk. there are more calorically rich and nutrient-dense foods than cow milk, but is there something i don't know about this?

just curious...

and jen, i noticed your post about free formula and formula coupons a week or two ago in one of the breastfeeding forums and wanting to get it to other mdc mamas who were unable to breastfeed or exclusively breastfeed... did some mods delete your post?

and a belated welcome to any newbie mamas to this thread... wish you didn't have to be here and sending you milky vibes...

~claudia
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#569 of 1093 Old 01-26-2006, 09:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboClaudia
it sounds like you think he still wants some sort of milk (in a bottle or sippy or cup)
Yeah, that's the case. He is quite attached to Nuby cups of formula (and sometimes a bottle if he's particularly hard to settle). He drinks water and the occasional juice when he is thirsty, but he likes to have a cup of warm formula/milk before naps/bed. And the reason we continued with the toddler formula is because I want to make sure he's getting enough of various nutrients so I don't have to worry on those days when he eats nothing but bananas all day long Since I would've BF until 2 (which seems to be the age that whole cow's milk is recommended for too), I wanted him to have something to replace that with.

So I guess I wouldn't really be interested in getting rid of all milk at this age, just wondering what crunchy mamas though of going to whole milk instead of continuing with the formula. It is impossible to find good info on mainstream sites because it's all "formula until 12 months and then regular cow's milk," but nothing about what to do if you were planning on EBF, you know?
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Hi Robin, I remember you from the sept mama board Tristan no longer drinks formula and drinks organic whole non-homogenized cow's milk. My only concern, really, is the iron, since there is *so* much iron in formula... but there isn't any in breast milk, if I recall correctly (is this right?), so I don't know why I'm worrying...? I make an effort to make sure he is eating enough beans and I try to sneak him cooked spinach and other greens whenever I can, he's not a big fan though! I feed him a very balanced diet and he is healthy, strong and active.

Our doctor said that if we could we should try to keep him on formula until 18 mos but it was primarily because it was a good source of vitamins. Our case of Baby's Only ran out and we were not interested in buying any more. He transitioned onto milk over a very long stretch - I think about 3 months.

You could also feed him enriched soy milk, it depends on how you feel about soy. We are very skeptical about soy in our household so we choose to go with the cow milk. My friend's son has an allergy to cow milk so he drinks soy. Other friends of mine are into Weston Price / Sally Fallon / "real" (raw) milk. We tried goat milk with T but we tried it in fall when the goats were coming into heat and the milk was really... well, goaty. (Tasted very strongly of the goat taste.) T wouldn't touch it and even I thought it was strong, and I like goat milk! I guess you just do the research and go with what you feel is best. - Jen

: mama to T 9/04 and E 11/08
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