Low-Milk Supply Tribe - Page 21 - Mothering Forums

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Old 02-09-2006, 08:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcyC

Okay...I have a question....

Why would OVER-supply be a problem?
I know, the grass always sounds greener...but oversupply can cause big problems.

Oversupply-mamas often have extremely gassy babies with frothy green poops who are very fussy because they're tanking up on foremilk, which is very high in lactose, and not getting enough hindmilk. This can also lead to slow weight gain because they're not getting enough calories. The babies can be sleepy, etc. because of the low calorie intake and the fact that their tummies get full so quickly.

Also, the letdown in oversupply situations can be so strong that babies splutter and choke, causing latch problems/aversions.

I know of one mama here whose oversupply was so bad that she battled mastitis pretty much continually - her breasts were always so swollen and engorged that her ducts were always plugged. She had to wean at 4 months and had enough pumped milk frozen to feed her dd for another 6 months or so.

Kellymom on forceful letdown/oversupply

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Old 02-10-2006, 12:08 AM
 
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yikes...

Looks like I'll be getting a PIS instead of a double select. It's "only" an extra $75 . Theres' a great reason for the expense though...

I'm now feeling full every 3-5 hours and expressing an ounce by hand every 5-6! I am so thrilled. We'll be picking up the PIS on Saturday, assuming our tax check comes in tomorrow as scheduled......
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Old 02-10-2006, 03:12 AM
 
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Hi, I am new here and am having supply problems, can anyone give me some advice as the best way to proceed to try to track down the problem?

I was not able my first daughter due to the fact that she would not latch on and I couldn't pump enough milk for her. I had toxemia and she was born 3 weeks early via c-section, so I kind of chalked it up to the difficult cirmcumstances surrounding her birth. I did pump and give her what milk I made for 6 months.

I recently gave birth to my 2nd daughter VBAC w/no problems on December 31st, and I was really looking forward to EBF. Thankfully, she latched on fine in the hospital. She was very sleepy the first day, but she did nurse some. When I got her home the second day, she would nurse for 30 -60 minutes, then cry and root for more immediately after coming off the breast. We went through this all afternoon before I gave her some formula. She was so upset I didn't know what else to do.

I rented a Lactina pump the next day and have been pumping ever since. I am only pumping about an ounce every 2 - 3 hours or so. I can pump more at certain times of day, but the amount I can pump has not changed much since she was 2 weeks old. I've heard the amount you can pump isn't necessarily an indicator of low supply, but in my case I think it might be. She is never satisfied after nursing if I don't use an SNS. I've been told she has good latch, both by the nurses in the hospital and a lactation consultant.

I am nursing her with an SNS and pumping frequently, trying to get in usually between 8 - 10+ nursing and/or pumping sessions a day, and I am taking 4 capsules of fenugreek and 3 capsules of blessed thistle 3 times a day, as well as using More Milk special blend 3 times a day, and I just started taking 30 milligrams of domperidone 3 times a day a couple of days ago. My LC has told me that at this point I am basically doing all I can to increase my supply, and I may not be able to develop a full milk supply.


My LC recommended I have a thyroid test, I did and it came back normal. I have my postpartum doctors visit this Friday, and I would like to know what other tests or examinations I can request from my doctor to help pinpoint any physical causes behind my low milk supply.

I would like to at least attempt to find the reason behind the low supply. Since this is the second time it has happened, I am wondering if I have some sort of problem. If there is a problem, I would like to correct it if it is something that can be fixed, and if not, then at least I will know why I am not making enough milk. I am extremely disappointed because I was really looking forward to breastfeeding my daughter exclusively.

I'd appreciate any help that anyone can give me.

Thanks!

Madelyn
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Old 02-10-2006, 02:47 PM
 
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See if your doctor would be willing to do a before & after nursing prolactin & estrogen test. If you have unusually high estrogen levels, that can suppress prolactin levels. That is my problem. I still produce prolactin and can make milk, my prolactin levels are just low, so I don't produce much milk.

With all of the medical expertise around today, I'm surprised someone hasn't invented a milk-making pill!!!
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Old 02-10-2006, 02:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MarcyC

With all of the medical expertise around today, I'm surprised someone hasn't invented a milk-making pill!!!
Why would they bother? Just give the baby a freakin' bottle of formula already

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Old 02-10-2006, 04:44 PM
 
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hi all,

do you know a reputable place where i can buy dom?

thanks!
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Old 02-10-2006, 04:56 PM
 
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I get mine from globaldrug.tv. Just got my latest supply yesterday. I've used them numerous times and never had a problem.

HTH!

Madelyn
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Old 02-10-2006, 07:48 PM
 
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Hi,
I'm new to the forums, but so glad I found them!! I hand express milk for my twin boys...they are 4 months, but were 11 weeks early...so not even quite 2 months developmentally. They are 10lb and 11lb now which I think is good seeing how they were born weighing 2.2 and 2.12.
I have had a low milk supply from the beginning which I have been working so hard to increase. I now produce about 20-22 ounces or so per 24 hours(up from 12 ounces per day 2 months ago!)...though I would need about 44 to 48 to feed both babies exclusively. I have just started taking domperidone, but having some side affects -- hot flashes, dizziness, short of breath, shakiness....if it can increase the supply though I am willing to endure the side affects and hope they decrease over time. However, my main problem seems to be letdown...I really feel like I have a lot more milk in there...just can't get it out...tried to find where I can get oxytocin nasal spray on-line to no avail(yet) -- anyone used this?
My babies don't latch..the NICU never allowed me to breastfeed(and I didn't assert myself, although everybody there knew that this silly mom wanted to breastfeed her twins). I have used pumps so much that they really tore up my skin to the point where I can no longer hook myself up to a pump -- I get panicky! Hand expressing has increase my supply from 12 oz to 20 or more ounces per day so I will continue to use what works. I will continue to provide milk for as long as I continue to lactate even if the babies never latch....but I am hoping one of these days that the boys and I can share a close nursing relationship....maybe help me heal a bit from the early birth and NICU experiences.
Hope to learn and support other moms who struggle with supply!

--Amanda
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Old 02-11-2006, 08:47 AM
 
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Amanda,
Welcome to our tribe! Don't beat yourself up! You're providing as much milk as you can and you're doing great! Have you thought about Reglan? I had horrible side effects with Reglan, but no side effects with Domperidone. Maybe since you're having the side effects with dom, reglan would be a good choice for you. Have you tried the herbs available? www.motherlove.com has some good tinctures - more milk plus and more milk special blend. Also, try eating oatmeal for breakfast every morning and have an oatmeal cookie for an afternoon or evening snack. Oatmeal increases supply.

As for getting them to latch, have you tried an SNS or lact-aid? That may help.

I have one side where I feel let-down frequently and another side where I've NEVER felt let down. Once I even got 2 oz. from the pump out of that one side and never once felt let down. I posted awhile back about not feeling let-down and several women replied that they didn't feel it either, but it wasn't necessarily a bad thing. I do notice that DD doesn't particularly care for that side and I wonder if there is too much work involved for her. That's where the SNS comes in handy.

Keep doing the best you can to get that precious liquid gold into your babies! You're doing a great job!
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Old 02-11-2006, 11:46 AM
 
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Amanda, are you able to access a good LC? I think she could possibly be quite helpful in getting your babies to learn to latch, especially if you are trying this in conjunction with an SNS. I don't know what your personal circumstances are, so please excuse if this sounds totally ignorant, but it seems to me that maybe you might try to get each baby individually used to the breast in conjunction with the SNS. If possible, give the other twin a botle (& he/she hopefully settles), & then you can focus on re-training one baby at a time. Mama, you are producing a goodly amount of breast milk through hand-expressing, & that is nothing to sneeze at!! imo, there is no reason why you shouldn't have a good chance at getting your babies to latch & be able to provide what breastmilk you can through direct nursing (whilst supping with the SNS)..... I'm not trying to say that it will be easy-peasy, nor am I saying that it's some sort of guarantee that breatfeeding will suddenly just click if you just do the right things...... No, not at all. I guess I'm just trying to say that I think you're in with a good chance to get your bubs to latch, & I wish you all the best!! hth.

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Old 02-11-2006, 09:30 PM
 
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Got my PIS, but only got a few drops on one side and two on the other. I am feeling seriously defeated. viper keeps reminding me all I had to drink today was a half a lemonade and a bottled water. So here I sit drinking a 30 oz water, just finished 3 packets of Quaker Instant Maple & Brown Sugar oatmeal, trying to catch up from being gone all day. I've got a zillion posts and . I also got two 100 count bottles of Fenugreek from Vitamin World.
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Old 02-12-2006, 04:36 AM
 
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Hi,
Thanks for the welcomes! I discontinued the domperidone early yesterday due to a bad PPD episode, I am not yet recovered..I am thinking the drug may be at least partly responsible. I really am the worst at tolerating medications...always have been. I am cutting certain things out of my diet as of today hoping it will help with my PPD.
I was given Reglan before the c-section, not exactly sure why -- and it was the most awful thing ever...it made me feel like I was being roasted alive and sick to my stomach and gave me a migraine like headache. I now tell doctors that I am allergic to it just to avoid the chance I might ever be given it again.
I have an SNS -- I tried using it many times..but the babies seemed completely aware of its presence and wouldn't latch...just wanted to accept the milk being dripped into their mouths, or to suck on the tube itself. I was so so disappointed because I really had my hopes up about it.
I do continue to at least offer a breast at least once a day to each baby -- sometimes they will latch on for a minute or two...they tend to get very frustrated with how slow the milk comes out compared to the bottle. Over several weeks I went through the trouble of weaning them off fast flow crosscut little nubbin nipples to med and slow flow NUK nipples. If I keep trying to nurse them and not giving them a bottle when they are hungry, they get hysterical...so I try to avoid that, I don't want them to see nursing as something negative.
The supplements I have tried are the organic mother's milk tea and fenugreek capsules..I also ate oatmeal every day for weeks...I haven't seen any real results(except for some icky body odor from the fenugreek), but that doesn't surprise me because after all I have been through I really believe the root of my insufficient supply is poor let down. I'm not sure what could help...its like having impotence of the boobs...failure to produce/perform. Then I read of mothers producing enough milk to feed 6 babies...or all the moms who produce just fine and just opt not to breastfeed...I get so secretly angry at the latter( and just can't help but compare myself to the former and wonder what is wrong with me)
The LC at the hospital were not very helpful...they basically told me that my preemies were too little to nurse....their only solution for my low supply was to "keep pumping"...I was pumping every 2-3 hours and rubbing the skin raw from compressing, squeezing and wringing the things trying to get the milk out. I feel like they just didn't believe I was pumping as often as I claimed. Its like they have never dealt with a case like mine...surely there must be others with my dilemma...but maybe they give up out of frustration and complete lack of options?
I hold the babies a lot and try to think happy thoughts when I express milk...but my letdowns are few and don't usually last long enough to get too much out.
All for now -- babies crying..thanks again for welcoming me!

-Amanda
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Old 02-12-2006, 04:01 PM
 
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hi ladies
well i am sure to be joining you again soon, as baby #2 due in a few weeks, and i am not at all confident in my breasts ability, esp after 10 months of domperidone, sns, formula, herbs, tea etc etc last time. sorry not filling you in entirely but it upsets me too much to think about it right now, as stressing enough as it is about it. Broke down when spoke to a LL leader last week, she must think im a total nut job

Its just that i stumbled upon this site, anybody tried it???? http://breastea.com, i tried mothers milk tea last time that helped, but i didnt want to rush and try this if wont work.
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Old 02-13-2006, 07:02 AM
 
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Amanda -- wow, Mama, you are an inspiration... hang in there, you're doing an amazing job. I do have one suggestion re: pumping. I don't know what kind of pump you have, but my pump was just tearing up my nipples until I got bigger sized flanges, and that made all the difference in the world in terms of comfort. I was pumping through horrendous agony fior 2 weeks and didn't even know there were other sizes until an LC mentioned that to me. I'm sure you've looked into that already but just wanted to throw it out there...

So...I am now in the sad position of admitting that I no longer have enough milk for DS's needs. It's like I just dry up as the day goes on. I feel so terrible. By late afternoon/early evening he screams in frustration because there is barely any milk coming out of either breast. He pops on and off the breast and just cries in hunger. This goes on pretty much continuously until he goes to sleep around 10 pm. For a while I thought it was just the normal evening fussy time but now I don't think so.

I can't even pump enough to give him much more than a 2 oz supplement -- by mid-day I am barely getting 1/4 ounce out of both sides--and now that he's older that's no longer enough to tide him over until I "recharge." Having tried all the herbs, I am now on my second day of domperidone and pray that it works.

In case it doesn't, I'm also trying to see if I can secure some donated bm. Have people here had any luck with that? I feel a bit awkward asking bfing women I know as I don't want to put them on the spot. DS's poor little gut has just been through so much, w/ me being on 3 rounds of antibiotics for mastitis recently (we are both taking probiotics), that I hate to introduce even a little formula. But I may have to if the dom doesn't kick in soon, or if I can't get any donated bm...
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Old 02-13-2006, 12:35 PM
 
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Amanda - Hugs, mama!!! I can certainly understand your feelings! It's so difficult when we desperately want to BF and are doing everything we can think of and it just isn't happening! I understand feeling so sad with mamas who have no problems and just choose to FF for some reason I don't understand. I don't understand how someone could breastfeed, but would choose not to. It just doesn't make sense! You hang in there! My baby is 10 months (today) and we've been using an SNS the whole time. It's a pain, but it gets easier.

Leah - I'm going to be getting some milk from an MDC mama who lives nearby. Check you're tribal area and see if there is a mom in your area who can help. But just to give you peace of mind, I've used formula in the SNS and DD hasn't had any bad reactions to it. As a matter of fact, breastmilk is so awesome that even just a little bit and help heal the digestive track if something else is upsetting it. Dr. Newman has done some research on supplementing with solids as early as 3 mos. since breastmilk so good for the digestive system and helps prepare it for other things. I'm paraphrasing that, but all in all, he says breastmilk is pretty amazing stuff. So if you end up needing to use formula in the SNS then just make yourself feel better know you are providing all the bm your body can possibly make right now.
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Old 02-13-2006, 08:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by twins10705
Hi,
I'm not sure what could help...its like having impotence of the boobs...failure to produce/perform. Then I read of mothers producing enough milk to feed 6 babies...or all the moms who produce just fine and just opt not to breastfeed...I get so secretly angry at the latter( and just can't help but compare myself to the former and wonder what is wrong with me)


-Amanda
Just wanted to say I've been there. You are doing great -- preemie twins are SO difficult to keep up with. There's still time to try to get them to latch -- how preemie were they? Many times preemie mom's milk doesn't come in until their due date.

Twin boys 04/2005 : Support breastfeeding rights at FirstRight.Org : warrior
Face the rear for MORE than a year! Toddlers' necks are safest in a rear facing carseat
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Old 02-13-2006, 08:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MaryJaneLouise
Just wanted to say I've been there. You are doing great -- preemie twins are SO difficult to keep up with. There's still time to try to get them to latch -- how preemie were they? Many times preemie mom's milk doesn't come in until their due date.
Hi, thanks for the support They were 29 weekers born this past October...so the milk is overdue They latch on for a minute or so every once in a while, so there is definately still hope....maybe my let down issues will resolve if/when that happens.

--Amanda
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Old 02-13-2006, 10:21 PM
 
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Hi mamas! I've haven't posted in this thread before but have been reading along for a bit. As you see by my siggy, I'm relactating with my almost 4 month old ds. We're using a lact-aid for all feedings, and it's going well so far.

I've been taking a fenugreek mixture for a few weeks, and have had constant bleeding for the last week. I know it promotes menstrual bleeding, so do I just deal with it or try dom? I've seen an increase in my supply (gone from 1 or 2 drops last week to covering the bottom of the bottle when I combine both sides this week while pumping) so I don't want to *not* take anything at this point. Any ideas? Thanks!

A happy woman
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Old 02-17-2006, 03:11 PM
 
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I just started taking this product:

Nutritional Yeast Flakes Red Star Vegetarian

http://store.thecatalog.com/2455.html

(I got mine at the local health food store)

And WOO HOO! Went from pumping @ 6 oz to at least 10 this morning! It took about 3-4 days to ramp up, and is causing a LOT of intestinal gas but man-oh, I think it's worth it!

Hope this continues!!!!!

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Old 02-18-2006, 12:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcyC
See if your doctor would be willing to do a before & after nursing prolactin & estrogen test. If you have unusually high estrogen levels, that can suppress prolactin levels. That is my problem. I still produce prolactin and can make milk, my prolactin levels are just low, so I don't produce much milk.

With all of the medical expertise around today, I'm surprised someone hasn't invented a milk-making pill!!!
What should these values be? I had blood work done last Friday, got the results back today, and my prolactin was 161.1 and the estradiol was 31. The nurse wasn't sure what was normal for a breastfeeding woman. The prolactin level seems low to me, but I'm not a doctor so I don't know for sure. I've been trying to do some research to find out but so far haven't turned up anything.

Thanks!

Madelyn
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Old 02-18-2006, 03:50 AM
 
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I'm just popping in to give you ladies a big group hug, and to tell you all how great you are doing by sticking with it and trying so hard.

I have had very low supply since my son was born. With alot of work, trying everything under the sun and finally Domperidone, I am about 75% nursing at 5 months old, and going strong. It can be done! I swear there were so many times I would sob about this. I still consider myself lucky each and every time I get to nurse my son.

Hang in there ladies. You are doing fantastic.
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Old 02-18-2006, 06:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaitnbugsmom
Got my PIS, but only got a few drops on one side and two on the other. I am feeling seriously defeated. viper keeps reminding me all I had to drink today was a half a lemonade and a bottled water. So here I sit drinking a 30 oz water, just finished 3 packets of Quaker Instant Maple & Brown Sugar oatmeal, trying to catch up from being gone all day. I've got a zillion posts and . I also got two 100 count bottles of Fenugreek from Vitamin World.
Kaitnbugsmom: I know that it is much quicker to use the instant, but somewhere along my low-supply path it was mentioned that I needed to use the "real" oatmeal. I think it was the LC that mentioned it, but I'm not a 100% sure

Leahida: As I was reading the board lastnight and wondering why my nipples were throbbing I came across your post about the flanges... Like *duh* that was why my nipples were throbbing... in my hast, I put on the too small flange : .... But after reading your post and realizing why I switched and did indeed get more milk So Thanks!! for your post

Can anyone tell me what the side effects of domperione (sp??) are... I'm doing alfalfa, blessed thistle, and a Nursing Tincture from Herb Liore and am getting some more but not really much more than about 6 oz a day for my dd. Also, anyone have a good supplement to take for fatigue?? I am fighting exhaustion daily and as dd gets older, I don't know if I can get her to take an am nap. Any and all help greatfiully recieved.
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Old 02-18-2006, 12:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red17

Leahida: As I was reading the board lastnight and wondering why my nipples were throbbing I came across your post about the flanges... Like *duh* that was why my nipples were throbbing... in my hast, I put on the too small flange : .... But after reading your post and realizing why I switched and did indeed get more milk So Thanks!! for your post
Yay, red17! If I can help one woman avoid the pumping hell I went through then it was worth it!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by red17
Can anyone tell me what the side effects of domperione (sp??) are...
Here is a good domperidone info link, which includes side effects:
http://www.kellymom.com/newman/19a-domperidone1.html
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Old 02-18-2006, 01:07 PM
 
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Hi Ladies,

I thought this was probably the best place to post the question, rather than start a new thread. Excuse me for only skimming through some posts here -- I did a search and didn't see anything on this. I'll try to make this short and sweet.

DS has been nursing great since birth. He is now 3 months and I just had my first "real" period last week. We also came down with thrush at the same time and are treating that. I have read all about how supply can drop for a day or two before/during the period, but this whole week it's been a lot lower. I'm working with an awesome LC and am we are limping along here. I'm doing some herbs, relaxation, Ca/Mg, etc. My main question is: has anyone ever heard of the supply NOT going back up to what it was after ovulation starts. My LC says I had a good supply before so I can have it again. The only other difference is that I have lost some water and fat weight because of the anti-yeast diet (no refined stuff).

Thanks so much!
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Old 02-18-2006, 01:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by red17
Can anyone tell me what the side effects of domperione (sp??) are...
I can tell you what side affects I have, but most women I have talked to have told me that they didn't notice any side affects. I have a family history of more extreme reactions to any drug, so keep that in mind. My S/A were moderately bad headache, heart palpitations, tremors, agitation, and fatigue...I'm not sure if it is related or not, but about 48 hours after I started taking it again, I had the worst PPD episode ever and it has taken days to recover...not sure if I am fully recovered actually. After about 18 hours on it(so two doses of two small pills) my let down was great so I was getting most of the milk...then the next day, I had like NO letdown.

Just wondering -- I am the only one with this problem: if yesterday I had good letdown(and I did), then today I have hardly any letdown at all no matter how much I squeeze and stimulate and compress. About once every 7-10 days I get a good(or the better word is probably "normal") letdown day where I feel so confident things are looking up and so happy that my babies are getting more milk than usual..then the next day I am lucky to get half the amount I got the day before...then the next days build back up to my average amount until eventually I have another good let down day and the vicious cycle continues! Why can't I just be normal? It seems to me on those "good" days, I use up all my stored oxytocin or whatever other hormone I need to let down and it takes my body much longer than it is supposed to to replenish that....but who knows....

--Amanda
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Old 02-18-2006, 01:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryJaneLouise
I just started taking this product:

Nutritional Yeast Flakes Red Star Vegetarian

http://store.thecatalog.com/2455.html

(I got mine at the local health food store)

And WOO HOO! Went from pumping @ 6 oz to at least 10 this morning! It took about 3-4 days to ramp up, and is causing a LOT of intestinal gas but man-oh, I think it's worth it!

Hope this continues!!!!!
I just bought some -- how much are you taking? Please let us know if it continues to work for you.

thanks,

Amanda
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Old 02-18-2006, 01:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcyC
Okay...I have a question....

Why would OVER-supply be a problem?
hmm...in a way I can sorta see how this would be annoying if I imagine really hard....but I would love this, I would gorge my babies with breastmilk on demand and build up a HUGE freezer stash...when they start solids I could make them breastmilk yogurt and butter...fresh breastmilk cheese....I could make our family breastmilk soap to last for years...pudding with breastmilk....sorry if I sound weird, but I think more women should take advantage of the gift that an oversupply can be! Why use cow's milk when you have plenty wonderful human milk to go around??! Now...back to my breastmilk famine of a reality...


--Amanda
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Old 02-19-2006, 09:07 AM
 
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twins10705- I am cracking up at the idea of breastmilk cheese!




My but a sense of humour about the situation sure helps sometimes, doesn't it?

And I understand & share the frustration of knowing that sometimes perfectly good breastmilk just goes to 'waste'.... It's like I want to shake them & say 'Don't you know what a precious resource that breastmilk is?!?!!' :

Aussiemumhippie.gif (40), DH caffix.gif (39), DD reading.gif (13), & DS 2whistle.gif(11).

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Old 02-19-2006, 12:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twins10705
I just bought some -- how much are you taking? Please let us know if it continues to work for you.

thanks,

Amanda
Update on yeast flakes -- still going strong on the supply. im taking 2 heaping teasppons, 2 day.

Twin boys 04/2005 : Support breastfeeding rights at FirstRight.Org : warrior
Face the rear for MORE than a year! Toddlers' necks are safest in a rear facing carseat
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Old 02-19-2006, 02:10 PM
 
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Red: The biggest side effect I had from domperidone was joint pain/stiffness, particularly upon waking in the mornings. This only lasted for a few weeks, though, and faded pretty much entirely after that. Some people report headaches, but I did not experience this. Oh -- and anovulation (I am taking 120mg/day)! But I consider this a benefit...

Twins: I have the same aggravating experience with cycles of good supply. It drives me nuts. For a few days I'll have these fantastic, babe-choking letdowns, and I get all happy and relieved... then, poof! No letdowns at all for 5 days or so. Repeat. I'm grateful for the good days, but I really, really wish I could figure out how to make every day a good day! Obviously, my breasts are capable of it sometimes, so why not *all* the time, KWIM? Grrr! : Commiserating with you.

Meg, BFARing mama to two spirited daughters, born at home June 05 and April 08.
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