Neverending Nipple Yeast - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 04-21-2004, 06:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by VeganSculptor

My question is this, those of you who have been on Diflucan for weeks, did you nurse while on it?

.....The doctor treated me like I didn't know what I was talking about and like we didn't have thrush, and she seems less educated about all of it than I am. It's frusterating!
VeganSculptor: I too nursed while on 2 separate rounds of Diflucan and all the while my ds was also on his on prescription of Diflucan as well. We had no problems with it except I got the worst bout of diarrhea after both times. The first time it happened I thought it was a bug. I was sick for 10 days! The second time after 3 days of diarrhea I figured it was the diflucan. I broke down and took a half dose of immodium, loaded up on pro-biotics and prayed that all this suffering was not in vain and that our thrush had gone for good. Which btw, it did not go away. My ds had no diarrhea or no noticeable effects from Diflucan.

As for the doc...my doc doesn't even own a bf'ing & medication book. Do none of her patients BF?? I've had to educate her on this whole thing as well! Also, she treats me like a bit like an annoyance since my thrush won't go away. She told me last time that if the Diflucan doesn't work then she's sending me to a dermatologist. I don't what he's going to do!

Keep the faith!
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Old 04-21-2004, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Jacksmama, Beware of the dermatologist. When I went they had me put vasoline on my nipples and a super strong steroid. After I had a plugged duct I learned from my lactation specialist that one must NEVER use vasoline on nipples. Plus, the steroid made the yeast worse!
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Old 04-21-2004, 06:15 PM
 
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I'm glad you told me that. The tone in my dr's voice when she said that was one of exasperation - and I felt she was just shluffing me off to a derm because she didn't want to deal. I think I'm either going to a Naturopath MD (which my insurance will cover partially) or a great lact consult in my area (which my insurance doesn't cover). I have to think about this.
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Old 04-21-2004, 11:59 PM
 
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Whichever poster it is whose doc won't prescribe Diflucan - the doc is dead wrong. Yes, Diflucan does have risks and side effects but the amount your baby would get through your milk is not even close to the dose your baby would get if prescribed it. My midwives and my pediatrician had zero problem with me taking Diflucan for 4 weeks. Take the Newman book to the doc (you could probably get it through your library, although it is worth having!)

Or you could always refer the doctor to the AAP approved list of drugs for nursing mothers; fluconazole (Diflucan) is on the list. http://www.kellymom.com/health/meds/...ml#Antifungals (you can link to the AAP site from there). Tell your doctor from me that she's an idiot.

Quote:
This sounds really nutty but I have 3 dogs and think they alll ahve a yeast problem also ( yeast ear infections licking etc) UGH im beginiing to think our whole family is an OUTBREAK!
There is another mama (lexbeach) on the boards who battled thrush for months and only got it cleared up when she gave her two cats away. I know her story is on here somewhere, or you could PM her.

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Old 04-22-2004, 09:13 AM
 
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Someone I know laughed when I was using Gentian Violet on my baby's mouth because that's what she used on her dogs' ears...???
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Old 04-23-2004, 03:02 PM
 
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Thanks for all your help girls. I had my doctor read Jack Newman's article about Diflucan and she didn't even call back, instead she had her nurse call back and say she was going to prescribe it,but that she still didn't recommend nursing while taking that. I think she just doesn't want it on her back if he does have side effects. She expects me just to stop nursing for 9 days and give my son formula(we are vegan and there is no such thing as a vegan formula anyway) and I told her that I will not do that. For one thing it would traumatize him to stop nursing for that long or just suddenly. It makes me sad to even think of it!

I don't know if I'll get the prescription or not. I did get the Candex in the mail yesterday so we'll see how that goes. She said to give my son Gentian Violet again so mabye I'll treat us both with that again. I'm just tired of this thrush! I don't even think I could permenantly give up sugar. I already don't eat any meat or dairy. I don't even eat much sugar, but a piece of fruit here and there or a muffin with fructose in it is nice once in awhile.

How much is Diflucan anyway? I do have pretty good insurance, but I'm still scared of how much it will cost.
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Old 04-23-2004, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I gave up the fruit for several weeks, but honestly don't think it made a difference, except that I felt less healthy and started really craving it. Personally, I don't think it is necessary to give up fruit, and a little fructose isn't going to hurt you. I have a friend who is a nurse and said to me, "It all turns into sugar during digestion anyway."

With my health insurance, which only pays 50% of the prescription, my payment was $150.00 for two weeks of Diflucan. It is expensive.

Don't give up the nursing. My lac specialist said that the little bit of Diflucan that gets to the baby is good because it will help rid the baby of any that he/she might have. I never noticed any side effects in dd. Hopefully the Candex will work for you and you won't have to use the Diflucan.
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Old 04-23-2004, 04:04 PM
 
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I absolutely continued nursing while on my 2 weeks of Diflucan. My midwifery practice prescribed it and they are a very medicalized midwifery practice (good in some ways, bad in others). My pediatrician also knew I was on it, and they all thought it was fine.

I would, however, be somewhat wary of the Diflucan because of its potential to cause Raynaud's syndrome of the nipple. Both Lexymama and I got this as a side effect. Mine is pretty much gone now--is yours, Lexy?

Anyway, I'm still on this damn merry-go-round too. The yeast waxes and wanes--I have bad days and better ones--with no apparent pattern or relation to what I do or don't do, or eat or don't eat. I am still avoiding sugar and white flour but am eating small amounts of cheese, fruit and whole wheat flour. I was miserable on the strict diet, and I don't notice anything getting worse now that I am off it. I'm also slacking off on the supplements.

Honestly, so much money and emotional energy has gone into fighting this...I am just tired of it, and willing to cope with this pain level for now. I have to confess that my dreams of nursing till self-weaning are long gone. I will be happy if I make it to nine months. I am hoping that introducing solids at 5 months or so (again, not part of the original plan, but you do what you gotta do) will help me out somewhat.

Here's one danger of yeast you all may not have thought of: burning down your house. I spaced out and left pacifiers and pump parts boiling on the stove till the pan went dry. Completely melted the pacis and destroyed the pump parts. Fortunately, the Isis comes with an extra of one of the parts, and the other (the "massager cushion") is not necessary for the pump to work (who knew?)

I am still looking for new miracle cures if anyone finds one, of course. I still wonder if I have dermatitis. There is a very obvious pink region on the tip of each nipple. It's not the whole nipple anymore; just the tip. That part of the nipple is also flecked with tiny purple dots.

grateful mother to DD, 1/04, and DS, 2/08

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Old 04-23-2004, 04:28 PM
 
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Lexymama, I wouldn't give up nursing for anything Even if I had to have thrush till he self weans. I am with you though, I gave up sugar for quite awhile and it didn't do anything. Diflucan is so expensive. I'm waiting to hear how much they'll charge me.

Is Raynaud's Syndrome the white things in the nipple? I think I read about that once. I do have those already and have since I started nursing. I had to use a nipple shield to get my son to latch on and it took 2 months to get him weaned of that and onto my bare nipple. So yes, I will do anything to bf

Loraxc I melted some of my son's toys that I didn't realize couldn't be boiled..lol. Oh well. They weren't his favorites and he never noticed. Your nipple does not sound like mine at all. Mine are very bright pink and get flaky sometimes. It flares up and then goes away. I'm not even in much pain. I just hate that our bodies are out of balance.
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Old 04-23-2004, 04:49 PM
 
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I think you were talking to me, not Lexymama, vegan, right?

It's not even so much the pain that is bothering me directly anymore...it's the fact that coping with the pain for hours/day (DD nurses 30 minutes, generally) takes so much out of me that I feel I really am not at my best as a parent. I have had days where I even wondered if formula and a happy mama were better than BFing and a miserable mama. But the truth is that I would NOT be a happy mama if I were using formula, so...

I only paid $30 (my brand-name copay) for my two weeks of Diflucan. I have been waiting pessimistically for them to somehow catch on and bill me, but the pharmacist said that wasn't possible.

grateful mother to DD, 1/04, and DS, 2/08

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Old 04-24-2004, 02:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by loraxc
Honestly, so much money and emotional energy has gone into fighting this...I am just tired of it,....
loraxc: You took the words from my own heart. I feel frustrated and a little po'd because I can't heal myself. I'll get all fired up and I'll tell myself, "You ARE going to be healed. You ARE NOW in balance..." and I work like crazy to boil every nipple, wash every towel, avoid any flour etc. but usually after four weeks I'm deflated and I stop being so vigilant about treatment. I feel so terrible that my ds who is 9 mos old has had thrush since he's been 3 mos. His body has been overgrown with yeast for 6 months. How awful that is. I wonder if I'm setting him up for a lifelong problem with yeast.

Lexymama: I can't believe your Diflucan was $150.00. Holy Guacamole! I had no idea. My dh has great work sponsored health insurance. I didn't realize I was so lucky. My four week supply was $20.

I did want to add that my ds's pediatrician, although a very conventional doctor, is also very wise and willing to think new thoughts...said that she went to a convention this past week where they discussed various drug resistant maladies that are cropping up. Yeast infections came up and there was a discussion about treatments. After hearing all the points of view at this convention, she told me that since we had done 2 courses of Diflucan she did not want to treat us with conventional medicine any longer. She told me to really concentrate (physically and mentally) on achieving a balance in our bodies. We talked a bit about the different things all of you have talked about here at MDC. So, my point in this is our pediatrician thinks we're all doing the very best we can - and that the medical community is somewhat amiss when they just throw thoughtless medicines over and over at this problem (or tell you to use vaseline on nipples, etc!).

You know, I'm not sure where any of you stand religious-wise / spiritually but I've begun praying - in earnest - for this thrush to go away and for health for my ds and I. I'll let you know how that works.
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Old 05-03-2004, 10:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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How's everyone's yeast doing? Do you all still have it? Mine has never gone away, but fluctuates along with my cycles in how much pain it causes.
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Old 05-04-2004, 05:31 AM
 
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Hi ladies,

I've been lurking for a short time and this thread just blows me away. I've had thrush for about 4 months and can't get rid of it. I should have come here sooner - you guys have some great information. I'm going to look for candex right now! I am already gluten free, dairy free and soy free so sugar has been my only vice. I've been avoiding it for about 2 weeks and when I cheat I can really tell the difference. My OB has prescribed diflucan 2 pills 2 separate times but my ins co won't cover a 2 week supply. We've sent in an appeal. fyi - When I called around to local pharmacies a 2 week supply for 150mg costs from $180 - $280 without ins coverage. I have no idea what my copay would be if it is covered but for each set of 2 pills it was $25. My 9mo DS shows no signs but I'm an itchy and sometimes bloody mess. I'm currently taking gse, echinacea, garlic and acidophilous. I'm using nystatin all day and cortisone cream over night as DS sleeps pretty well these days once he goes down.

I hope we can all beat the yeasty beasty soon!

Susan
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Old 05-04-2004, 07:16 AM
 
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lexymama: Glad you checked in! I was just thinking of doing the same yesterday. But I was feeling a little shy.
My yeast is still there, just very low grade. I have almost no pain, just a little redness on each nipple and occassionally I have tenderness when nursing. My son is an extremely quick nurser. A full fledge feeding for him average only about 5 - 7 minutes in total. My thrush might hurt more if he took longer?? My ds also still has low grade thrush in his mouth. It's just a slight white haze all over.
Right now I'm on my second tube of terazol. I've been putting it on each nipple after feeding. Ds and I still take pro-biotics daily. Other than that I've just stalled in my treatment - we're not trying anything new at the moment. I've yet to try the candex. I'm weary and pissed and I'm of the mind set that if the yeast stays this low grade then we'll just live with it. Although talk to me in a few weeks...I might change my mind.
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Old 05-04-2004, 09:25 PM
 
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This thread has gotten too long for me to read all of it. I assume Dr. Newman's handouts have been covered? I also have ongoing yeast that cropped up after my dd was a year! All of the sudden the nipple got deep cracks where it meets the aereola and it HURT! It's not as bad now but my nipples peel and itch to varying degrees. The vinegar rinses seem to help. I use monistat cream during the day some--since dd is 1 1/2 she goes long stretches without nursing. I'm going to try the GSE next. Even though it's mainly recommended for yeast in the ducts, it can't hurt, right? I think it is as effective as Diflucan and works the same way--systemically. The closest I have come to getting rid of it was when I took 3 cloves of raw garlic to get rid of a sinus infection. But dd just gave it to me again. I figured out a way to get some garlic in her now so I am going to dose us both really well. But with a little baby you can't do that.
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Old 05-05-2004, 03:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I have such mixed feelings regarding the yeast and all of you other mamas suffering. On the one hand I am so glad that I am not alone in this. On the other I am extremely sad that others are going through the same thing! I'm also amazed at how hard the yeast is to get rid of. Thank you to everyone for your stories and support. I hope we all can beat this someday (maybe when our babes are weaned).
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Old 05-05-2004, 05:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupelo Honey
The closest I have come to getting rid of it was when I took 3 cloves of raw garlic to get rid of a sinus infection. I figured out a way to get some garlic in her now so I am going to dose us both really well. But with a little baby you can't do that.
Tupelo Honey: When you say you took 3 cloves of garlic, do you mean you swallowed whole raw cloves? Were there any side effects from this?

Also, how can you dose your dd? Are you putting it in her food?
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Old 05-05-2004, 12:19 PM
 
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I also have not kicked the thrush. Mine is very cyclical--it improves, then gets worse again. I went off the diet a couple of weeks ago and haven't noticed that it matters. I was losing my mind (and too much weight). I don't really eat any sugar, though.

For treatment, I alternate Monistat and Lotrimin on my nipples a few times a day. I have tried cutting those out but it seems to have an impact. I am off all the supplements. I used them all up and can't stomach spending another $60 when I don't even know if they worked.

I have noticeable changes on the tips of my nipples that can be seen at all times. It is a purplish pink area. I am pretty sure the pain is all localized in those areas. They have gotten smaller, so I guess I am hoping they will just disappear some day.

I have also been concentrating really hard on positioning in hopes that perfect positioning might help. I actually have a call in to the hospital LC just to see if she has any more suggestions. My private LC seems to be out of ideas.

It has been a hard week pain-wise and I have found myself contemplating exclusive pumping again. I really don't know that I can bear this for another 9 months.

I think thrush is really emerging as a problematic resistant infection and we are on the "front lines," so to speak. I post on another parenting board and am noticing an increasing # of moms and babies there with resistant thrush as well.

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Old 05-05-2004, 02:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksmama
Tupelo Honey: When you say you took 3 cloves of garlic, do you mean you swallowed whole raw cloves? Were there any side effects from this?

Also, how can you dose your dd? Are you putting it in her food?
I take garlic medicinally for my twice-yearly sinus infections. In the past I would just cut it into pill-sized pieces and swallow it with orange juice, which masks the taste pretty well. Lately, I mince it very fine and mix it with about a tsp. of honey, just enough to coat it and make it go down smoothly, and scoop it up in a spoon to take like medicine, swallowed down with water. The only side effect is a few hours of garlic breath. I find that if I do it late in the afternoon/early evening, by the next morning I smell fine (believe me, dh will let me know, lol). It works great and besides killing yeast and other yukky things (it's great for the sore throat you get from sinus drainage), it is also very good for your heart because it helps cleanse the blood of impurities. I wasn't even thinking about the yeast when I did it recently, but I noticed a few days later that my nipples were looking and feeling very normal!

What I did for dd was put two peeled garlic cloves (I knew I wouldn't get much down so I was going for concentration) with about an ounce of orange juice in the blender and completely liquified it. I gave it to her in a medicine dropper. I got one whole dropper in and it really was no worse than giving her any other meds. She has had a nasty cold for weeks so that was my motivation, really. Within 24 hours, her nosed stopped its constant running and the inside of her bottom lip, which has been all bubbly-blistery looking for months, looks almost completely normal.
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Old 05-05-2004, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Loraxc, I am so sorry you are going through this with such a young baby. Mine is extremely painful again this morning, but it is always painful for me during the week or so before my period. One of my nipples is cracked and bleeding again. I stopped the diet too and didn't notice any difference in the yeast. I'm avoiding sugar too. I wish someone would figure out a cure for us with this resistant yeast!
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Old 05-10-2004, 04:04 PM
 
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Ugh, I just discovered that my baby and I have thrush/yeast infections. I can't tell you how upset I was 'cuz I know how intractable yeast can be. My aunt has been battling systemic yeast infection since September!

I just wanted to add a treatment that has really helped my nipples and breasts. I found it at this site: http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/bestfeed.html

Here's the excerpt:
" In my practice, I rely on essential oil of rosemary when treating thrush & coincident candidal infection of a nursing mom. An herbalist who I'd taken care of told me about this. It has been reliable, pleasing to the infant's taste buds and not messy. I have the mom dilute 2 drops of essential oil of rosemary in 1/4 tsp. olive oil, mix well then swab the tongue & buccal mucosa with this three times a day. Mom can just use her finger to do this. I also ask that the mom purchase cocoa butter and add 2 drops of rosemary to 1/4 tsp. cocoa butter (warmed in the hands to soften it). This mix massaged into the nipple and 1 1/4 inch radially of the surrounding breast up to 6 times/day has both addressed the candida infection and helped heal up the raw areola in my experience."

I started using the cocoa butter/rosemary oil treatment yesterday and almost immediately my breasts felt better--they were starting to hurt pretty bad and had small cracks around the nipples. I haven't tried the olive oil/rosemary yet.

Also, I just ordered a formula called "Beat the Yeast" from
http://www.theherbalist.com--I'm hoping it helps, maybe it's similar to the Candex.

I know I'm in for a long haul and had to go through a lot of emotions yesterday before settling on the one day at a time idea.

Best of luck and healing to all the rest of you who are dealing with this as well.

BTW, my son is 13 months old, any mothers with children this age dealing with yeast infection for the first time?
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Old 05-10-2004, 05:38 PM
 
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Punky....I've seen that "Beat the Yeast" stuff in my local health food store. Let us know how it works. My ds and I have had thrush since he was very small so I have no comments on an older baby getting it.

I did have a question for all out there.....I was wondering if any of you have a history of vaginal yeast infections? I know that when I was younger in my 20's I always seemed to have a yeast infection. They are very common in my family. I went to the dr. for them often. Even when I didn't have an active overgrowth frequently it would be a little painful after being intimate -- and I suspected that I always had a low grade yeast invasion. However, as I've gotten older it's seemed to subside. Although I do seem to get them once a year or every year and a half. I'm just wondering if some of us are more prone to them than others - and if maybe I've had this overgrowth of yeast even before I had my ds. Anyone else have this?
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Old 05-15-2004, 04:28 PM
 
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Big news flash:

I don't have thrush anymore--and may never have had it at all. I went in for my fourth LC consult today, and she finally diagnosed a congenital problem: my baby has a high "bubble" palate, meaning my nipple is constantly scraping across her hard palate. I probably have secondary Raynaud's as a result of all the damage from this. I can't believe no one checked for this before, but it does make sense. Unfortunately, there is no solution, except for aggressive positioning and time. I now am going to have to decide whether I want to go to exclusive pumping or how many feedings I want to replace with pumped milk.

This is worth checking into if anyone thinks they are not entirely sure their prob is yeast. I think I did have it, because my pain used to be a lot worse and a lot more itchy, but that I did get rid of it. This however is why the pain NEVER resolved.

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Old 05-16-2004, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Loraxc ~ Wow, I'm so happy they finally figured out what is really going on, and that you don't have yeast anymore!! Yay for you!!!!!!
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Old 05-17-2004, 12:12 PM
 
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Mamas, I just wanted to say how impressed I am that you are working through this. My DS is 16 months old, and only nurses 2X/day, and I just came down with my first case of thrush...it is so painful when he nurses that I'm having to limit the time he's at the breast. I can't imagine what it would be like with a littler one who nurses all the time. My hat is just off to you.
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Old 05-19-2004, 01:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksmama
Punky....I've seen that "Beat the Yeast" stuff in my local health food store. Let us know how it works. My ds and I have had thrush since he was very small so I have no comments on an older baby getting it.

I did have a question for all out there.....I was wondering if any of you have a history of vaginal yeast infections? I know that when I was younger in my 20's I always seemed to have a yeast infection. They are very common in my family. I went to the dr. for them often. Even when I didn't have an active overgrowth frequently it would be a little painful after being intimate -- and I suspected that I always had a low grade yeast invasion. However, as I've gotten older it's seemed to subside. Although I do seem to get them once a year or every year and a half. I'm just wondering if some of us are more prone to them than others - and if maybe I've had this overgrowth of yeast even before I had my ds. Anyone else have this?
I got the Beat the Yeast set in the mail a couple days ago, but it has such a large mix of herbs that I think I may not use it. I'm not really sure of the safety of that many herbs with nursing.

When I have time I'll do some research about the particular herbs.
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Old 05-19-2004, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I was going to come on today and ask about the beat the yeast because I've got the stuff in my ducts again. : Bloody, painful nipples.
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Old 05-19-2004, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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[QUOTE=punky123]I started using the cocoa butter/rosemary oil treatment yesterday and almost immediately my breasts felt better--they were starting to hurt pretty bad and had small cracks around the nipples. I haven't tried the olive oil/rosemary yet.

Is this working for you?????? I'm desperate for a cure once again.
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Old 05-19-2004, 03:39 PM
 
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The rosemary essential oil and cocoa butter is AWESOME. I'm serious, it stopped the pain within 24 hours. I'm using breast pads to keep from getting all my bras and shirts oily.

As for the Beat the Yeast, maybe I'm being overcautious but here's the list of stuff that's in the bottles:
Herbal-Biotic has: oregan grape, golden seal, and yerba mansa (I know nothing about yerba mansa or oregan grape)

Astragalus Plus has: astragalus, echinacea, lomatium, wild indigo, myrrh, poke, yarrow, and cayenne

Anti-Fungal has: thuja, spilanthes, usnea, pau d'arco, echinacea, calendula, and cayeen

Since I really don't know the effect or what some of these herbs are (yet) I'm not comfortable taking them while nursing.
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Old 05-19-2004, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for the information! I'll go to the health food store today and try and find the rosemary essential oil and cocoa butter.
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