She gave dd formula:( - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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Breastfeeding > She gave dd formula:(
TCMoulton's Avatar TCMoulton 03:47 AM 07-24-2010
While I understand your frustration all of the PPs are correct - rice milk is not appropriate for an infant, especially one as young as your DD. If you are not able to provide adequate breastmilk while you are at work then formula really is the best choice.

mamaofthree's Avatar mamaofthree 04:26 AM 07-24-2010
i am not sure why everyone would get LIVID at the use of a non GMO organic formula over rice milk. i have no idea about your back story with your mom, so i am sorry she did what she did especially if she did it to undermine your parenting.
but if your baby needs a bit of rice milk every time she watches her, then maybe having the formula there is better then having the rice milk.
here is a bit of a story: my dd for some unknown reason would not take breastmilk from a bottle. but she would take formula. i would pump and pump and it would go to waste. my SIL who was watching her gave her some formula she had and the kid drank it up. it was weird. she still nursed like a champ when i was home with her. it was upsetting to me, i pumped for months, but she would drool it out, refuse to take a bottle, cry and cry. none of my other kids did this. but maybe this is the issue? or not. just a thought.
hugs either way.

h
Cukup's Avatar Cukup 06:54 AM 07-24-2010
Honestly I believe your mom did the right thing. Rice milk - as you even state - has no nutitional value, so why feed it to a baby?

Your mom was in a bad situation with not enough BM, and a terrible substitute - the rice milk.

Kudos to her for thinking rationally enough to feed your hungry baby.

There's no need for you to use formula if you BF but you need an acceptable substitute for other carers, and rice milk is not it.
Pirogi's Avatar Pirogi 03:33 PM 07-29-2010
Actually, OP hasn't given enough information to really decide if grandma did the right thing. She has said that grandma bought formula on the way to her house, presumably to babysit while OP worked. She has also said that she did have breastmilk in her house at the time. If there was enough breastmilk for her baby to be filled without having to use rice milk, then grandma was absolutely in the wrong. Absolutely. If there was not enough breastmilk, then grandma was right.

OP, try PP's suggestions for proper utilization and storage of breastmilk, to prevent any from being poured down the drain. If you still aren't making enough breastmilk for your baby, then supplementing with formula is the only nutritionally complete way to make sure your baby gets full.
texmati's Avatar texmati 04:09 PM 07-29-2010
I havent told her this, but I simply can't pump enought to 'afford' to have my mom baby sit!

I don't think your mom is terrible, but I would explain about over feeding, paced bottle feeding, tell her how much you expect dc to eat, and how to use bm responsibly. Also, I'd asked to be called if you ever run out of breast milk.

OP I can go on and on about this. It's sad how many working mom's have their breastfeeding attempts sabotaged by well meaning care givers.
texmati's Avatar texmati 04:14 PM 07-29-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirogi View Post
Actually, OP hasn't given enough information to really decide if grandma did the right thing. She has said that grandma bought formula on the way to her house, presumably to babysit while OP worked. She has also said that she did have breastmilk in her house at the time.

OP, try PP's suggestions for proper utilization and storage of breastmilk, to prevent any from being poured down the drain. If you still aren't making enough breastmilk for your baby, then supplementing with formula is the only nutritionally complete way to make sure your baby gets full.

This is not always correct for working mama's. It's easy for caregivers to over feed a child. It's not horrible to tide a child over with water ( I dunno how I feel about rice milk) if she's hungry at the end of the work day, so that mama can feed baby when she gets there.

It's horrible to tell a new mama that she's not making enough bm, when in reality her child is being overfed (I"m not sure that's the case here)

Regardless, this dc is the OP's child, not granny's. Grandma should have follwed mama's instruction regarding food. Grandma was wrong.
TCMoulton's Avatar TCMoulton 06:58 PM 07-29-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by texmati View Post
It's easy for caregivers to over feed a child.
Except that this isn't the case for the OP as she stated in her original post that she knew that she didn't have enough pumped milk for that day. Regardless, rice milk is not an appropriate breastmilk substitute for a baby that young.
texmati's Avatar texmati 07:40 PM 07-29-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCMoulton View Post
Except that this isn't the case for the OP as she stated in her original post that she knew that she didn't have enough pumped milk for that day. Regardless, rice milk is not an appropriate breastmilk substitute for a baby that young.
she also stated that her mom routinely dumped milk. I do agree that rice milk is not an acceptable long term solution for a breastfed child. At the sametime, I do think this mama's wishes should have been honored.
TCMoulton's Avatar TCMoulton 07:47 PM 07-29-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by texmati View Post
she also stated that her mom routinely dumped milk. I do agree that rice milk is not an acceptable long term solution for a breastfed child. At the sametime, I do think this mama's wishes should have been honored.
But this is the reason that the breastmilk is being dumped:

Quote:
DD hates the bottle anyway, so most of the time my milk just gets poured down the drain after the first ounce or so.
If most of the breastmilk is being dumped, and she already acknowledged that she didn't have enough ounces available for a day's supply for grandma it seems that some kind of supplementation is going to be necessary. Smaller bottles may save some of the waste but even for a few ounces a week formula is the logical and appropriate substitute for her child, not rice milk.
PatioGardener's Avatar PatioGardener 08:05 PM 07-29-2010
it may also help to know that, unlike formula, breastmilk can be kept in the fridge and 're-used' after giving a bottle that baby doesn't finish.

nak
JudiAU's Avatar JudiAU 09:30 PM 07-29-2010
I would very very angry. But that assumes I left adequate food (rejected or not).

D
But...you said you didn't leave enough to feed her and left some rice milk to stretch it. You put your mother in a terrible position if that is the case. This is for a four month old? This does not sound like an adequate plan to me. Rice milk is not adequate nutrition for a four moth old but formula supplementation would be. Has this happened before? More than once? Did your mom buy the formula knowing that this could happen again?

I strongly support nursing and pumping moms and I don't know anything about your relationship with her but on the face of it it sounds like she is a deeply worried grandma trying to do what is right (but not making necessarily wise choices).
JudiAU's Avatar JudiAU 09:36 PM 07-29-2010
I really do understand the pressure to get the bottle filled and I understand that the rice milk helps you relieve a little pressure. But again, a hungry baby needs food and rice milk is not food for a baby.
Ammaarah's Avatar Ammaarah 10:17 PM 07-29-2010
I'm with the others who said formula is an appropriate breastmilk sub, while rice milk just isn't.
rachelsmama's Avatar rachelsmama 10:48 PM 07-29-2010
I would be mad too! It's not like she even supplemented with formula, she substituted! That's worse! I don't for a moment believe that she did it out of some concern that rice-milk is inappropriate, if that was the case she would have used the breastmilk first, or if she was a healthy person she would have discussed her concerns about the rice milk.

OP, I also agree that rice-milk is not ideal, but I can totally see where you're coming from too, and if it truly is a case where having formula in the house would result in the quick end of breastfeeding and worsening of depression then I can even see how the rice-milk might be the lesser of two evils. There were some suggestions about trying to make the EBM go further up-thread, I hope something works (and you manage to get your mother to comply) so you don't have to make any more hard decisions about supplementation.
leafwood's Avatar leafwood 11:26 PM 07-29-2010
first, i would be a mess if someone did that (even my mom). second, can you get a freezer stash going? at around 2m pp i started pumping for 10-15 minutes each morning. at first i got nothing but then i quickly got up to 7-10oz per morning session which added up quickly b/c most of the time the baby did not even eat it. then, i would still pump while away if he took a bottle. long story short, i wound up donating the extra milk but we never ran out. hopefully this can be an option for you.
texmati's Avatar texmati 12:49 AM 07-30-2010
OP, just an FYI, breastmilk not used at one feeding can be used at the next feeding.
dalia's Avatar dalia 01:29 AM 07-30-2010
OMG I would be furious. You must be a saint!!
futurmama8's Avatar futurmama8 03:23 AM 07-30-2010
Um...it seems like you are ignoring all the posts telling you that rice milk is NOT an acceptable substitue for breastmilk. Formula isn't an evil substance used to slowly kill your baby and in this case is much better for the proper growth of your child.

I am going to put this in caps just so you can see it.

RICE MILK HAS BEEN FOUND TO HAVE ARSENIC IN IT. YA KNOW, CANCER CAUSING ARESENIC, THE KIND USED IN PESTICIDES.

http://www.nowpublic.com/health/stud...enic-rice-milk

So now you decide if formula (a good substitute for breastmilk, nutritionally adequate and a proper food source) is worse than Rice milk (a horrible food source for infants with no nutritional value and many risks).
rachelsmama's Avatar rachelsmama 10:52 AM 07-30-2010
So, just out of curiosity, is supplementing with a little bit of rice milk significantly different than early introduction of small amounts of rice cereal and water? I'm not saying it should be anybody's "plan a", but there are several generations of functioning humans that had rice and water, and many other things, early on and most survived in reasonable health. Is it really a bad enough choice to warrant the hostility and aggression in some of the previous posts?
Banana731's Avatar Banana731 12:44 PM 07-30-2010
Jack Newman feels like actual food is appropriate to supplement a 4 month old who needs to be supplemented. He is very anti-formula.

I would be livid if someone fed my child formula. I think formula is better than starvation, and that's about it. From the OPs post, I don't think that her dd is in danger of starvation. She works for 5 hour shifts, 3-4 times a week. She most likely feeds her baby immediately before and after. Her mother is obviously wasting breastmilk if it's going down the drain, she might not even need to supplement with anything with better care and feeding practices.

OP- if your baby doesn't like to use a bottle, you can try a dropper, cup, or syringe. And breastmilk does not have to be thrown down the drain if she doesn't finish it at a feeding! If for some reason she just doen't want to take EBM, you might want to check to see if your milk has a high lipase content. Taste some milk that you have expressed in the fridge and if it tastes "soapy" or funny in some way, that may be your problem. The lipase in breastmilk helps break down fat to make it easier to digest, for some moms with high amounts of lipase it happens right away in pumped milk and baby doesn't always like the taste. It can be remedied by scalding the milk as soon as you pump it before long term storage. Scalded breastmilk is still far superior to formula in terms of nutrition.

Please get in contact with some of your local LLL leaders. They will be able to help you get the most out of your pumping sessions and expressed milk.
ErinYay's Avatar ErinYay 04:49 PM 07-30-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by rachelsmama View Post
So, just out of curiosity, is supplementing with a little bit of rice milk significantly different than early introduction of small amounts of rice cereal and water? I'm not saying it should be anybody's "plan a", but there are several generations of functioning humans that had rice and water, and many other things, early on and most survived in reasonable health. Is it really a bad enough choice to warrant the hostility and aggression in some of the previous posts?
Since both rice milk and rice cereal contain unacceptable levels of arsenic, I'd say they're both pretty crummy choices for an open-gut babe.

And sure, the people who survived and are healthy survived and are healthy, but we don't hear a lot from the ones who died of malnutrition or early cancer.
Smithie's Avatar Smithie 05:17 PM 07-30-2010
I have always found it impossible to have "enough" pumped breastmilk on hand when leaving a baby with a caregiver who didn't understand how to handle it and wouldn't accept my explanations. Basically, some people, including otherwise lovely people, WILL dump a half-finished bottle and WILL feed a baby more EBM than they should have, to the point where they throw it all up. Same baby + same amount of EBM + educable pro-breastfeeding caregiver = no problem.

OP, if you need to keep using your mom as a caregiver, I suggest that you get some organic non-soy formula for her to use and TAKE HOME WITH HER EVERY TIME. Then you can pump at work and freeze the milk you pumped when you get home, and build up a stash for use with other, more congenial caregivers.
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