The thrush that just won't leave (7 weeks) + bloody/green stools... sigh - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 15 Old 08-10-2010, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just wondering if any one else has experienced a case of thrush (candida yeast) that just doesn't want to quit or respond to treatment! When did it finally clear up for you and how?

First let me say that I LOVE breastfeeding my daughter (she's 7 weeks old now) and she's gaining weight great, she's already probably about 12 pounds or even more. I love cuddling her and talking to her and stroking her hair while she looks up at me with her big beautiful eyes, and I love knowing she's getting all her nutrition from her Mama. Despite the pain I've been in she's never had any formula (I did have to pump for a few days when the pain was so excruciating I couldn't even latch her on, but now it's more at a teeth-gritting level...)

That said... man, when is this thrush going to leave me alone? I have had it SEVEN WEEKS now. I don't even know what pain-free breast-feeding is like! I really cannot wait to experience it!

I had to have antibiotics during my labor due to Group B strep, and I had excruciating nipple pain from the start. I also had to have an epidural after being in labor for five days with no progress (I was 1 cm on the fourth day despite contracting painfully every 2 minutes and not having slept for four days). Still, she latched on as soon as she was born and started having excellent weight gain and a great number of stools and urine right off the bat.

The hospital lactation consultant said she was latched fine and assured me that a little pain at first was normal. But after a week of teeth-gritting and crying every time I fed her, and noticing that my nipples were bright pink and shiny/flaky and baby had thick white deposits on her tongue, and starting to have burning/stabbing pain in my breasts between feedings... I went to my midwife and she confirmed I had thrush. A lactation consultant paid a house call and checked baby's latch and amount per feeding (she got 3.5 oz in less than 10 minutes on one breast) to make sure that wasn't the issue.

First the midwife put me on a regimen of Dr. Jack's All Purpose Nipple Ointment and diluted grapefruit seed extract on my nipples and baby's tongue. We tried this for two weeks, but it made no improvement at all. I also changed my breast pads between feeds, washed my bras and clothes with milk on them in hot water, sterilized anything with milk on it frequently, and began taking probiotics.

Next we tried Nystatin for a week--no improvement.

Then I saw a specialist breastfeeding doctor, and she put me and baby on Diflucan, plus a different antifungal ointment and probiotics. It seemed to be helping for a few days but then we both got much worse again and the pain is even more horrible than before.

Today we're trying a fourth regimen--clotrimazole compound and ointment and some other things...

But I'm starting to lose hope! Please tell me there is light at the end of the tunnel. I refuse to let her have any formula and I hate pumping except when necessary (I get really anxious and depressed when I can't nurse her directly, it seems to be a really intense hormonal thing) but this is really getting me down.

I'm also down because baby girl has been having a lot of green stools and quite often there is blood in her stool... which makes her cry and fuss. This has been going on four weeks--I was told it was likely dairy allergy, so I stopped eating all dairy proteins (including casein, etc), but that didn't help, so I was told to cut out all soy as well... That seemed to be working and she was all smiles but after a week of no dairy AND soy her stools are green with spots of blood again. So now I've been told to see a pediatric GI doctor and the lactation consultant warned me I might get told to put her on formula if I don't find a good BF-friendly GI doctor...

Thanks for letting me vent! I hope I can get over these humps soon as I want to EBF for six months and nurse her in addition to solid food for at least a year...

----
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#2 of 15 Old 08-10-2010, 10:01 PM
 
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it sounds like you should cut out more things to get to baseline. Keep out dairy and soy (soy is in so many things, it is vitamin e, alpha tocopherol, and lecithin, it is in most skin and shampoo products too, see links below), maybe take out tomato and citrus. Cut out gluten. Eggs may be a problem and nuts, especially if you vaccinate. Vaccinated children are more prone to food allergies in general IMO and eggs and nuts are part of the manufacturing process so they tend to be more allergenic. Chocolate was a nono for me, but that was before I found allergy free chocolate from Enjoy Life, so not sure on that one. it also didn't cause the bloody mucousy stools, just fussiness and sleeplessness. Are you caffeine free?

The blood and green mucousy stools sound like food sensitivity to me, but could also be related to a foremilk/ hind milk imbalance (the green mucous part, the blood is food allergy).

Thrush can be eliminated by following a more pure diet. If you are soy, dairy and gluten free, take a probiotic, have absolutely no HFCS, food dyes, processed foods and very limited natural cane sugar only- in combination with 7 drops of GSE in a shot of OJ twice a day and a good probiotic that is vegan, gluten and soy free. Also taking biotin is a way to inhibit yeast overgrowth (I take 5 mg occasionally and my 7 yo does too). I also recommend making sure you are not ingesting GMOs or aspartame.

I wear no bra, with a cotton shirt that is pre GMO cotton. You can put a bit of a probiotic on your finger and have baby suck it off too. I would not recommend giving a baby GSE drops, it is very harsh.

I feel I have lost my way in this post and the 7 yo is begging to play on computer, so here are some links

http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns...ity.html#signs

http://gfcf-diet.talkaboutcuringauti...-is-casein.htm

http://gfcf-diet.talkaboutcuringauti...hat-is-soy.htm


ok now 19 mo needs me, hth

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#3 of 15 Old 08-10-2010, 10:09 PM
 
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Did you try drinking the grapefruit seed extract? That's what did it for me after recurrent thrush. I think I did 10-11 drops in 8 oz. of water a few times a day. Tastes nasty, but it worked. Good luck!
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#4 of 15 Old 08-12-2010, 04:52 AM
 
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TMy son had thrust within a few days after birth (c-section). Luckily, I had read some great advice and it worked perfectly and is completely natural and safe. First, yeast cannot survive in direct sunlight. Expose you breasts to at least 10 minutes of sunlight 2 or 3 times a day. If you don't have a back yard with privacy, this might be difficult. But if you have a friend or relative with a private yard, you can try to use theirs. This eliminated my pain almost immediately. The sun will be good for your baby too. You probably both could benefit from some vit D. Also, go bra-less for a day or two. This will allow your breast to dry quickly, which will inhibit the yeast growth. After each feeding, express a couple of drops of milk onto your fingers and rub it around your nipple and areola. This is the BEST nipple cream! My son nursed constantly and I never had a cracked nipple. Finally, you need a probiotic for you and you baby. We used Udo's infant probiotic. You can let your baby suck some of it from you finger or mix it with some expressed milk. We kept up the probiotic for a whole month to be sure the thrust wouldn't return.

The remedies and drugs you have been using may be causing the green stool problem, so I wouldn't start eliminating a bunch of foods just yet until you get rid of the thrush. An elimination diet can be very stressful and you need optimal nourishment right now. Just try to eliminate all sugar and white flour. Make sure you are also getting plenty of healthy fats in your diet from eggs, butter, olive oil, and cod liver oil. This will help you maintain a good supply of the fattier hind milk in proportion to the foremilk. Low fat in the milk can lead to funky stools in the baby. We had this problem too. I started adding a lot more fat to my diet and it cleared right up.

I hope this helps.
I
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#5 of 15 Old 08-12-2010, 05:14 AM
 
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Yup to the GSE. I had thrush for 18 months on and off with my 2nd son. I would dilute it and rub it into his mouth on his inner cheeks and tonuge. and put it on my nipples after feeding. it sounds like alot but, I put in his mouth and on my nipples every hour, and it worked, I drank it too. I put it in grapefruit juice.
I only did the every hour thing during the day. not at night.
I nursed him till he was 3, it was so nice not to have any pain I was ready to nurse him forever, lol

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#6 of 15 Old 08-12-2010, 06:41 AM
 
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the stool issue mat be overactive let down/over supply. block feeding may hejp.

nak

see:http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/fast-letdown.html
http://www.llli.org/NB/LVSepOct95p71NB.html

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Quote:
Occasionally, blood in the stool may be due to breastmilk oversupply. Per Dr. Jack Newman, bloody stools in some babies have been eliminated completely by resolving mom's oversupply. This can be done by following the usual management procedures for oversupply; it can also be helpful to use breast compressions to increase the amount of fat that baby gets while nursing.
http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/bloodystool.html

also nipple pain may be from baby clamping down to reduce flow.

good luck!
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#7 of 15 Old 08-12-2010, 02:04 PM
 
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We had persistant thrush, and this is what I did to get rid of it.

My LO took Nystatin 4x a day for 4 weeks. I took 6 probiotic pills spread throughtout the day (and I continue to take 2 a day even now), I also took 2 weeks of Diflucan. I went completely topless/braless the entire time I was at home, as often as possible, and all night. Exposed my nips to sunlight as often as possible (outside and through a window). Sterilized everything, obsessively, compulsively -- anything the babe had in her mouth or touched my boob. Washed all baby stuff, my tops/bras, sheets and towels in hot hot water with vinegar frequently. Applied all-purpose nipple ointment after each feeding (I added both Lotramin and Monostat in addition to Polysporin and Hydrocortizone). Periodically rinsed off my whole boob with a water/vinegar mix.

My sister came over to help out a few hours every day while my DH was at work to help out. It took about 4 weeks of everything being a huge PITA, but it got better and now things are great.

The green/blood-tinged stools don't sound like thrush to me, though. I'm afriad you might be dealing with two separate issues here -- and I agree with the PP who have suggested oversupply/overactive let down.

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#8 of 15 Old 08-12-2010, 02:15 PM
 
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Thrush that won't go away and stool issues sounds like food sensitivity to me. If I were you, I'd only eat veggies and meat (if you eat meat) for a while and see what improvements occur. I would not put my baby on formula. How formula gets digested is very different than human breastmilk and if your baby does have GI issues, the formula will make things worse not better.

My 6mo and I have had a journey with nursing and her surgeon was glad I didn't put her on formula given all the problems we had. She still gets thrush all the time and she still breaks out in hives and eczema even when all I eat is salad, so I've just learned to be calmer about things.

Good luck! Things will get better!

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#9 of 15 Old 08-12-2010, 03:27 PM
 
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Thrush that does not improve with appropriate treatment is not thrush. There are many things that can mimic the pain of thrush, and most commonly, moms actually have a bacterial infection that needs antibiotics to clear it up. You may have started out with thrush but then developed a bacterial infection. Other possibilities are eczema, psoriasis, allergic reaction, structural issues with baby such as tongue tie etc.
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#10 of 15 Old 08-13-2010, 12:29 AM
 
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Oh, I feel for you! We battled thrush for a long time, too. It was excruciating and awful. What finally worked for us was grapefruit seed extract for me (putting it on my nipples, following Jack Newman's instructions as to dosage, etc.) simultaneously with Nystatin drops for the babies' (twins) mouths. It seems you already tried GSE. But whatever you are doing, make sure you are treating the baby at the same time.

How about gentian violet? It can be very effective, although it only helped our thrush temporarily.

In the meantime....advil. I took it round the clock for about 6 weeks.

Hang in there!
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#11 of 15 Old 08-13-2010, 03:37 AM
 
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#12 of 15 Old 09-08-2010, 02:47 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks everyone for all your help and suggestions--sorry I didn't respond or update before but I have been sick for 4 weeks with a bad cold that became bronchitis and ending up getting a lung infection and having to take antibiotics (which did NOT make baby girl happy, I think even though it was a BF-safe one she got enough to make her fuss).

I still have thrush, however, and baby girl still has it on her tongue. Have tried two more antifungals and have been really aggressive with disinfecting everything, wiping baby's tongue with gauze, rinsing nipples with vinegar after feeds... And I go back to work Friday.

I am just feeling despondent and resigned to my nipples stinging and burning... But I still love nursing and baby girl is gaining weight great (she is 13 lbs at 11 weeks old) and thriving so I will just persist!

On the plus side, after I eliminated all dairy and soy and have been very careful about hidden dairy/soy, and have been tackling my oversupply issues, baby girl has nice bright yellow poop with no blood again.

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#13 of 15 Old 09-08-2010, 11:39 AM
 
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Have you tried doing all of these things at the same time?

I know it sounds like a lot, but dd and I went through many rounds of meds to finally get things cleared up, and it took us doing everything to really make it work. Here's what we did.

Udo's choice probiotic, 30 billion cultures, 2 times/day
Grapefruit seed extract pills, 1 pill, 3x's a day
Fluconazole 400 mg as a first dose, followed by 100 mg twice daily until pain free for a full week
Jack Newman's all purpose nipple ointment, every nursing
Grapefruit seed extract diluted and wiped on nipples
I also eliminated all HFCS, processed sugars (included white bread and rice) and soy.
Further, no more orange juice or other juices, it tended to make things worse for us. Fresh fruit only

So, after every nursing (except at night, then 2x's at night), I would wipe both my nipples and baby's mouth with grapefruit seed extract. Then Apply nipple ointment. I also found that apple cider vinegar applied between nursings or right before helped minimize some of the sting.

I continued for 4 weeks past being pain free with the entire regiment, except the fluconazole. After 18 months of nursing with intermittent pain, we were finally pain free. I had a new flair up after becoming pregnant, but quickly started the APNO, probiotics and GFSE and cleared it up very quickly.

Much luck!
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#14 of 15 Old 09-08-2010, 05:07 PM
 
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I feel your pain. DD and I had thrush for 4 months. It was awful. I finally tracked-down a paci storage container they were using at daycare (and not disinfecting) as our point of re-infection.

DD and I finally went on a loooong course of diflucan. Both of us. I think we were on it for 2 weeks or more. I was also using Gentian Violet on my nips and DD's mouth and taking GSE capsules and priobiotics. I also eliminated all refined flour and sugar from my diet, so the yeast didn't have anything to feed on. We did all the regular stuff, too, like washing bras in hot water and vinegar, disinfecting (boiling) everything that came in contact with DD's mouth and/or my milk, etc.

Don't give up yet! Nursing was blissful once the thrush got cleared-up! They do make diflucan in a liquid form for babies. Dr. Newman recommended taking it for a week after I felt my symptoms had resolved. Here is his candida protocol. I ended-up emailing him and he actually emailed me back with some great advice that I took my dr. and DD's ped! His email address is at the bottom of that link.

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#15 of 15 Old 09-13-2010, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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jecombs, thanks so much for your advice! we did try oral diflucan, both for me and baby, for two weeks, plus probiotics and a few other things (ointment), all at once. All it did was make baby really fussy and upset her stomach. But I'm heartened to hear that you managed to kick the thrush after 4 months.

The Dr. Jack Candida protocol was the first protocol my midwife had me try, but I'll talk to my breastfeeding doctor to see if I should try something again, as I feel so defeated. I am SO sick of disinfecting everything and having to go through such an annoying process after each feeding session and not getting any results...

I feed Zora on cue (frequently!), so having to swab my nipples and put stuff on her tongue and put ointment on my nipples and mix up medicines and take capsules and wash bras... it's so much work when I just wish I could breastfeed. Though I wouldn't mind if it seemed to be having any effect!

And now I'm back at work fulltime (10 hours per day I'm away from her including my commute) and have to pump 3x per day and the pumping is KILLING my poor sore thrushy nipples. I also have vasospasms as a result of the nipple damage from the thrush. At least when I'm nursing I can change positions frequently to get less uncomfortable and the cuteness of my baby is quite distracting.

UGH... I just want to grab my baby girl when she's hungry, pull up my shirt, and feed her without all this pain or these processes. I'm tempted to just put up with the pain and take a break from any treatment attempts for a week, then try again when I have a little more energy.

p.s. tibeca, thanks for your advice as well! once I take a little break I think I will just try EVERYTHING at once.

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