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#1 of 57 Old 08-01-2011, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So I'm a huge supporter of hm4hb, nursed my own two, and have a family trait of lactating for years after ceasing nursing. Anyways my dog just had a litter of 14(maybe more, might not be done yet). Out of curiousity last time she had a litter I was still nursing and found our nipple size the same and was able to easily latch on the puppies and immediately felt the letdown. I know it is not ideal, but with the size of litter we have we will be looking at supplimenting with a formula cocktail otherwise, and I thought the same as a baby, why not skip all the hassle and just nurse strait from the tap.
I'm really just looking at other people's perspectives an opinions on this. It is something I am comfortable with and would enjoy doing to ensure we lose as few new pups as I can prevent, and my bitch is great about my helping with such a large brood.

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#2 of 57 Old 08-01-2011, 08:54 PM
 
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Wow! Why not? I've never heard of anything like that, but I'd think as long as the pups were rotated between you and their mama so that all of them get puppy mama milk it's gotta be better than the formula...right??

I'm interested to hear if anyone else comes up with BTDT stories.


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#3 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 03:43 AM
 
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I have to admit I took a moment to recover from shock after reading this, but I'll bite.

 

According to Professor Google, human milk and dog milk have very different compositions. Dog milk has more than double the fat and seven times as much protein. I'd assume that that difference far outweighs the benefit of natural vs. formula.


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#4 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 04:18 AM
 
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I'm not sure this would be good for the pups... I mean, you wouldn't feed dog's milk to your human child, right?? I think (but don't know for sure) that the composition would just be too different for it to be safe for your dogs. I would imagine the formula would be best for them if their mother can't nurse them all. Have you consulted your vet?

As far as my actual opinion on it, I would never do it... I cannot even imagine a dog or any other non-human creature latching on to me. I just wouldn't even consider it. redface.gif

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#5 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 04:33 AM
 
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um, no.  Just no.  Step awaaaaay from your idea.  


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#6 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 05:14 AM
 
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What? Wait... you're doing- what?

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#7 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 06:26 AM
 
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I would not think there is any reason to suspect that human milk is any more suitable for puppies than cows milk. I think you are doing the puppies a disservice, and potentially negatively affecting momma dog's supply if you nurse some of them.

 

Leave them to momma to nurse, or supplement with puppy formula if you have to.

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#8 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 06:31 AM
 
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Yeah, uh even the WHO doesn't suggest you latch your baby on to the dog if you can't nurse.  You either find another source of species-specific milk or you use formula made for that species. 

 

I would highly suggest formula for these puppies.  You can always alternate who gets the formula so that they are all getting a lot of breastmilk with a little bit of formula as supplement and no one (or more) puppy is getting solely formula.

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#9 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 06:53 AM
 
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I would recommend against it.  You say you believe in hm4hb, well the same concept should apply to dogs as well, shouldn't it?.  I used to help out with some wild animal rehab and I remember that fawns couldn't drink cows milk because it would make them constipated, it wasn't designed for deer, it was designed for cows.  Puppy formula is designed to mimic dog milk, so unless you can find a wet nurse dog, that would be the next best thing.  Also, how did your dog react when you nursed her puppies last time?  Was she ok with that?  I know that not everyone feels so possesive of their nurslings but I would not be comfortable with someone else nursing my child.  Your dog isnt able to consent to you nursing her puppies.

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#10 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 07:21 AM
 
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No. Is this a joke?

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#11 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I had to be open to all responses to post this and can see everyones point. For discussions sake in response to the milk being so different, how does that compare to parents I've known that have opted for goats milk instead of formula, and the fact that puppy formula is cow based, and further from their needs than human milk would be, it's not like they milk dogs for the base lol.  And like has been mentioned no one pup would get supplimented, they all would be very rarely, not so much to help them grow and thrive on my milk, but to alliviate the stress on my dog and the time it takes to make sure they all get nursed, not to mention the stress of having them fighting over nipples and having to constantly trade and change them around instead of just being able to lay back and relax while they feed. It would be like doing chores everytime you nursed. So more of a tummy filler to make them full and happy to go back to sleep. Everytime she has to reach around to her back end to move a puppy all the ones on the front are unlatched and it all starts over.

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#12 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 07:40 AM
 
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The fact you are trying to justify this ridiculous idea is abhorrent. No, it's not the same opting for goat's milk instead of formula for humans. I can't even imagine the psychological issues that go along with wanting to nurse puppies, and I'm stunned that you would think this is okay. 

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#13 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 07:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronic Chrissy View Post

I had to be open to all responses to post this and can see everyones point. For discussions sake in response to the milk being so different, how does that compare to parents I've known that have opted for goats milk instead of formula, and the fact that puppy formula is cow based, and further from their needs than human milk would be, it's not like they milk dogs for the base lol.  And like has been mentioned no one pup would get supplimented, they all would be very rarely, not so much to help them grow and thrive on my milk, but to alliviate the stress on my dog and the time it takes to make sure they all get nursed, not to mention the stress of having them fighting over nipples and having to constantly trade and change them around instead of just being able to lay back and relax while they feed. It would be like doing chores everytime you nursed. So more of a tummy filler to make them full and happy to go back to sleep. Everytime she has to reach around to her back end to move a puppy all the ones on the front are unlatched and it all starts over.


Cows milk has added ingredients to make it more suitable. The stuff that is missing is added, it isn't about how close cows milk is to puppy milk, it is used as a base for a formula that is intended to simulate puppy milk.

 

But you know what? Go right ahead if you are really set on doing this. I don't think it is going to kill the puppies to have a little human milk here and there, but don't pretend you are doing them any favors.

 

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#14 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 08:01 AM
 
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Cows milk has added ingredients to make it more suitable. The stuff that is missing is added, it isn't about how close cows milk is to puppy milk, it is used as a base for a formula that is intended to simulate puppy milk.

 

But you know what? Go right ahead if you are really set on doing this. I don't think it is going to kill the puppies to have a little human milk here and there, but don't pretend you are doing them any favors.

 


This exactly.  Especially the last line. 

 

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#15 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 08:07 AM
 
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I am going out on a limb here and assuming you didn't ask the vet about this idea? Perhaps you should run it by him/her and see if it meets their approval as something safe to do for these puppies.

 

 

 


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#16 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 08:07 AM
 
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DISGUSTING. puke.gif
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#17 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I had an idea voiced an idea, tried to explore an idea in a place I thought was understanding. And in the end you can read it the wrong way if you like, which the way it is coming across is by continueing the disscussion I am pushing and justifying actually doing it, nowhere did I say I was going to, I said it was an idea. I was raised to believe that if I had a question I go find an answer and that is all it is. Just like last year where we were sitting watching the litter with some of my friends visiting and commenting on her saggy teats, and the discussion evolving into wondering what makes a puppy latch on, wether it was a rooting reflex, smelling the milk, the baldness around the nipple, mother's smell. After a pointless hour was spend playfully arguing, I figured it was stupid for us not to check it out and see for ourselves. We were curious we did something that wasn't dangerous found a few answers and a few seconds later it was done and the conversation moved on. Considering she only has 8 teats and 13 pups, lastnight we were talking about how lovely it would be to have a wet nurse like I have for my rabbits, or like hm4hb helps connect, and wondered, that is all. And to have the intial response was expected, but to be allocated to the opinions that came after continuing to go further into depth in my own discussion seems.....judgemental and closeminded, which is surprising considing what most of our common ground is and how "mainstream" veiws us the same as you all just did to myself, and "mainstream" is then seen as shutting the door on an idea because society, what-have-you, has made them feel uncomfortable about even approaching the subject, very comparable to public breastfeeding.
Once again just the thoughts going through my head, and very open to hear other's perspectives.

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#18 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 08:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronic Chrissy View Post

I had to be open to all responses to post this and can see everyones point. For discussions sake in response to the milk being so different, how does that compare to parents I've known that have opted for goats milk instead of formula, and the fact that puppy formula is cow based, and further from their needs than human milk would be, it's not like they milk dogs for the base lol.  And like has been mentioned no one pup would get supplimented, they all would be very rarely, not so much to help them grow and thrive on my milk, but to alliviate the stress on my dog and the time it takes to make sure they all get nursed, not to mention the stress of having them fighting over nipples and having to constantly trade and change them around instead of just being able to lay back and relax while they feed. It would be like doing chores everytime you nursed. So more of a tummy filler to make them full and happy to go back to sleep. Everytime she has to reach around to her back end to move a puppy all the ones on the front are unlatched and it all starts over.


If you want to make her life better, get her neutered and take her for lots of walks. A dog doesn't need a wet nurse.

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#19 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Lol as for the consulting a vet I live in a small town area and know that any vet around here will sell what they have, and make sure you buy it and not an alternative, and pull the "you want to kill your pet by trying something different that is your choice" just like doctors hold our babies life hostage to push interventions. Not to mention I doubt the few female vets we have around nursed their kids, or could even get past the shock of what I presented and give it any consideration before shutting the whole idea right down. Look at the response here. And why would I want to waste their time with something I'm just thinking about and exploring and probably never going to do?

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#20 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 08:21 AM
 
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I don't think that those parents are supposed to be giving their babies goats milk all by itself without anything added to it, either.

 

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I had to be open to all responses to post this and can see everyones point. For discussions sake in response to the milk being so different, how does that compare to parents I've known that have opted for goats milk instead of formula, and the fact that puppy formula is cow based, and further from their needs than human milk would be, it's not like they milk dogs for the base lol.  And like has been mentioned no one pup would get supplimented, they all would be very rarely, not so much to help them grow and thrive on my milk, but to alliviate the stress on my dog and the time it takes to make sure they all get nursed, not to mention the stress of having them fighting over nipples and having to constantly trade and change them around instead of just being able to lay back and relax while they feed. It would be like doing chores everytime you nursed. So more of a tummy filler to make them full and happy to go back to sleep. Everytime she has to reach around to her back end to move a puppy all the ones on the front are unlatched and it all starts over.



 


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#21 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 08:22 AM
 
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Your words...
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I'm really just looking at other people's perspectives an opinions on this.


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#22 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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You mean spayed? lol
No we are not spaying her, she was bought for a pet, but chosen for her breed and to be bred. But that's a conversation for another topic and don't want this to be hijacked away from the original topic.
As for t he walks already covered, not only do we live in the country, but also walk daily, and have trips to the beach at the end of the block, lots of fresh air, excercise, and a natural balanced healthy dog life.

 

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If you want to make her life better, get her neutered and take her for lots of walks. A dog doesn't need a wet nurse.



 

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#23 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Perspectives and opinions take thought, not impulse responses
 

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Your words...
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Originally Posted by Chronic Chrissy View Post

I'm really just looking at other people's perspectives an opinions on this.



 

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#24 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 08:33 AM
 
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Perspectives and opinions take thought, not impulse responses
 

 

I have thought about this all morning and stand by my initial reaction. Completely inappropriate and I have to assume this is some kind of joke like the blog about giving birth in the koi pond and having the koi fish push the baby out of the water.

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#25 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 08:51 AM
 
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DARN.  Sorry I missed that one. 

 

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  I have to assume this is some kind of joke like the blog about giving birth in the koi pond and having the koi fish push the baby out of the water.



 

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#26 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Not a joke at all, completely dead serious. There are tons of examples of animals wetnursing off of other species and thriving, no it may not be the ideal match and could cause deficiencies if it is the exclusive sorce, but it does work in other cases and the babies usually grow on to thrive once eating themselves and you could never notice the difference later in life. I know that  my milk may not be the perfect match for rabbit kits but when you consider that most handraised kits perish, and they drink so little it is costly and wasteful to buy the kitten replacement formula from the vets, especially since it is so few and far between I have to handraise one. I've raised kits to weaning on my milk with an eyedropper and later a dish, and they thrived into wonderful meat rabbits. t is very rare on formula for them to ever survive, yet with my milk things seem to work better and the kits that do perish survive longer with less pooping problems.  It's not worth the cost of 4 full grown rabbits to tray and save 4 that will probably die and make you have to throw the extra formula out anyways, and isn't fair to my livestock that could use money reinvested into providing them with better care and feed when I have a alternative that seems to work better free and available
 

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I have thought about this all morning and stand by my initial reaction. Completely inappropriate and I have to assume this is some kind of joke like the blog about giving birth in the koi pond and having the koi fish push the baby out of the water.



 

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#27 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 09:03 AM
 
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You really need to go find the blog about the koi pond. Its hilarious.



Right, am I the only one who is assuming that this whole thread is meant for entertainment? The idea is absurd and seems like it was put on the boards just to start an argument. I dont understand why the idea of cow milk not being enough for a dog is any different than goat milk not being enough for a human. Humans should not be supplemented with ONLY goat milk, just as dogs should not be supplemented with ONLY human milk.

The thing that really weirds me out about this, is the idea of actually nursing the puppy. Pumping and bottle feeding I could understand a little more, but I really do think there are some physiological issues at hand when one wants to nurse an animal that isnt our own species. My cat latched on my once and it was the most creepy crawly feeling ever. Havent slept shirtless since.

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#28 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 09:03 AM
 
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If this isn't a joke, you are not fit to be caring for dogs, much less being a breeder.

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#29 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 09:03 AM
 
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Why don't you p[ost about this in pets?  I would think the pups would have a hard time latching on a human breast.  I vote no.  Sorry. 

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#30 of 57 Old 08-02-2011, 09:06 AM
 
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I think that it is admirable that you would feel such compassion for your mama dog. But, it does seem un-natural to me to nurse a puppy "from the tap". Nutritional needs aside, I would be concerned about the impact that nursing another animal's babies at your breast would have on their sense of their place in the world and who to bond with. 


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