We need help, baby is loosing too much weight - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 55 Old 12-06-2011, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi there, 

DD was born last week on monday, after her first check up she was admitted to NICU for low blood sugar. She had i.v.s for her sugar, and we tried to feed her with finger feeder and this breast thingie, but she kept throwing everything up, only bottles worked :( I had to give her bottles for about two days, until her sugars were stable. She was on the breast before every feeding and trying to feed beautifully, except on the right side, were my nipple is quite flat since I stopped bf my DS two years ago. 

 

since we are back at home (last thursday) we are feeding on demand, and she is feeding every two to four hours. It was quite difficult in the beginning, because my nipples were really sore, esp. the right one, and she would not take the right one very well. Now the right side is much better, but she still does not take this side to well, at night it is really difficult, and I cannot nurse her on the right side while lying down, which works without any problem on the other side. She does feed this side at daytime, though not as well as the left side. 

 

She lost weight, now she lost 10% of her birthweight, and she should be back at her birthweight by now. 

I don´t want to give up bf, and am willing to do what it takes. At the moment I am bf her every two hours, or more, I have to wake her up for this, and she started to spit a bit. I am drinking teas and loads of fluids, try to eat a lot (which is not too difficult, given the time of the year :) ) but I am really worried that bf will not work out. 

 

Any suggestions?


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#2 of 55 Old 12-06-2011, 12:43 PM
 
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At only 8 days old, she doesn't need to be back to her birthweight yet.  Has she gained since her lowest weight, or has she been losing consistently?

 

Have you been in touch with an IBCLC?  It seems way too early to be worried that you won't be able to breastfeed.  You need some support though!


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#3 of 55 Old 12-06-2011, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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No, she is loosing constantly. I was in touch with an LLL counselor (how are they actually called ...) 

 

I successfully bf my two other ones until there were two, this really stresses me out :( 


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#4 of 55 Old 12-06-2011, 12:48 PM
 
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Congratulations on your new baby!
You're right - 10% is really the top end of normal newborn weight loss - but I've always heard BF babies aren't expected to be back up to their birthweight until they're two weeks old.
Is she continuing to lose weight? Is she having enough wet and dirty diapers? She should be having at least three to four quarter-sized stools a day and five to six good, wet diapers.
If she is continuing to lose weight or not having enough diapers (especially if she seems sleepy or lethargic), I think it might be a good idea to see an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant or a good LLL leader.
When I was in the same boat, my LC suggested I use a double electric pump after feeds then use an SNS to feed baby the pumped milk.
I also wanted to reassure you that supplementing doesn't mean the end of BF. My second son lost too much weight and I had to supplement with formula in an SNS for a day or two until I was pumping enough milk. Then I weaned off the supplements and pumping and exclusively breastfed until he started solids. He's been in the 80th percentile for weight ever since.

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#5 of 55 Old 12-06-2011, 01:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triniity View Post

No, she is loosing constantly. I was in touch with an LLL counselor (how are they actually called ...) 

I successfully bf my two other ones until there were two, this really stresses me out greensad.gif 

Sorry - we cross-posted.
I'm sorry you're so stressed. hug2.gif
What I'd do if she's still losing is to start pumping after feeds with a double-electric pump and getting the pumped milk into her. Is she waking for feeds? Lethargy and low diaper output would be real red flags.
Was the LLL leader not helpful? Do you have IBCLCs in your area?

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#6 of 55 Old 12-07-2011, 03:45 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi, 

 

 

Quote:
Lethargy and low diaper output would be real red flags.
Was the LLL leader not helpful? Do you have IBCLCs in your area?

 

She does not have low diaper output, her diapers are quite full at every change, we are still using disposables, until I am ready to face the washing machine :) Not that much stool, but I guess three quarters at least ( I´ll have a closer look now) 

The LLL leader was helpful, I just thought to go looking for further ideas, she did, for example,  not suggest pumping. I just called the pharmacy and will get an electrical interval pump this afternoon, and will start pumping. 

 

Just called our pediatrician, who probably is the best ped in the world. He was so reassuring! He said that she is probably just loosing water which is common in babies who had blood sugar issues and that I should continue what I am doing, and he will have a look if she does not start gaining weight by friday. 

 

Megan, what does SNS mean? 

 

what can I do to increase my milk supply? 

 

 


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#7 of 55 Old 12-07-2011, 04:23 AM
 
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Hi, just wanted to follow up too (especially since you say her diaper count is good) that if you received iv fluids during labor that could have given her an increased birth weight due to increased fluids.  So, once the fluids came off she may have lost what appears to be a large amount.  So, if wet/dirty diapers are happening at an appropriate amount and the ped says it's okay, I wouldn't worry much yet.  

 

But I agree on the pumping, especially on the right side...and if you can find a lactation consultant you may want to have her latch looked at to make sure she's latching well.  Or, you could go to the doc' or something and have a pre and post nursing weighing so you can find out how much she's getting. 

 

Good luck.

 


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#8 of 55 Old 12-07-2011, 05:34 AM
 
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Hi, 



She does not have low diaper output, her diapers are quite full at every change, we are still using disposables, until I am ready to face the washing machine smile.gif Not that much stool, but I guess three quarters at least ( I´ll have a closer look now) 
The LLL leader was helpful, I just thought to go looking for further ideas, she did, for example,  not suggest pumping. I just called the pharmacy and will get an electrical interval pump this afternoon, and will start pumping. 

Just called our pediatrician, who probably is the best ped in the world. He was so reassuring! He said that she is probably just loosing water which is common in babies who had blood sugar issues and that I should continue what I am doing, and he will have a look if she does not start gaining weight by friday. 

Megan, what does SNS mean? 

what can I do to increase my milk supply? 


If her diaper output is good and she's alert and waking for feeds, I would keep doing what you're doing although pumping (the best way to increase supply) can't hurt. Your ped sounds great and I agree with wishin'andhopin that water could be an issue especially if you had IV fluids: http://www.nancymohrbacher.com/blog/2011/10/31/newborn-weight-loss-and-iv-fluids-in-labor.html
Did your ped check if she has a tongue tie?
Stool counts are important: http://www.llli.org/llleaderweb/lv/lvdec97jan98p123.html
An SNS is a supplemental nursing system - a bag of supplement that you feed to the baby through a tube inserted in their mouth along with the nipple. Using an SNS or finger, cup or syringe feeding is really the best way to supplement so you don't run into problems with flow preference from using bottles.
Hang in there, mama. I bet she'll be gaining in no time!
Come back and update us on how you're doing.
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#9 of 55 Old 12-07-2011, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I don´t thing she has a tongue tie, I guess they checked. 

 

No, I did not have i.v.s during labour. I got my pump now, and I got this superspecial bottle  http://www.mothercare.com/Medela-Calma-150ml-Bottle/dp/B003VKWOVE (We actually tried this SNS, did not know the name :) in the hospital, that did not work very well) 

 

Tomorrow my mw will weigh her again, but I guess she is really on the right track. Hopefully! 

 

I´ll let you know tomorrow! 


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#10 of 55 Old 12-07-2011, 11:00 AM
 
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Quote:
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I don´t thing she has a tongue tie, I guess they checked. 

No, I did not have i.v.s during labour. I got my pump now, and I got this superspecial bottle  http://www.mothercare.com/Medela-Calma-150ml-Bottle/dp/B003VKWOVE (We actually tried this SNS, did not know the name smile.gif in the hospital, that did not work very well) 

Tomorrow my mw will weigh her again, but I guess she is really on the right track. Hopefully! 

I´ll let you know tomorrow! 

Fingers crossed for you!
But I really would avoid bottles for at least the first few weeks while you're trying to get breastfeeding established. They can lead to trouble and I haven't ever seen any lactation professional suggest that a particular brand of bottle is better than any other. You may find the SNS works better now that you've gotten more practiced at latching or you could finger, cup or syringe feed.
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#11 of 55 Old 12-07-2011, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I will try with no-bottle feedings, it´s just to get the pumped milk into her if I need to. 

 

Maybe I am not that good with the finger feeder, or she was just too hypoglycaemic when we tried, she kept throwing up after the feeds. I think the milk was just going in too fast, ykwm? 

And with the SNS, she would not leave this little tube in her mouth, she kept spitting it out, but we´ll trying again for sure. 

I just got the bottles so that I have something better than the regular ones. (that might be magical thinking :) ) 


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#12 of 55 Old 12-07-2011, 11:26 AM
 
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The usual starting amount for supplement is really small - like half an ounce to an ounce per feed - so you might find a little cup (like a shot glass or little plastic medicine cup) works just as well as a bottle. A syringe works, too.
I'm not trying to scare you about bottles I just find that people often aren't aware that while some newborns switch back and forth with no problem some don't - and my first was one of the latter. He quickly started refusing the breast. It was agonizing although thankfully we were able to get past it.
Anyhow, it will be a moot point because she'll have gained so well on Friday!

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#13 of 55 Old 12-07-2011, 11:29 AM
 
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Found a good link on alternative feeding methods: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/alternative-feeding.html#Cup
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#14 of 55 Old 12-09-2011, 03:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi, 

she gained! Just 60 g, but, hey it´s a start! And I didn´t need to supplement anything, I don´t really want to supplement formula anyway, I am thinking more into pumped breastmilk if necessary. My inlaws will be here over the weekend (hopefully without the hello k*tty laptop (the my post in parenting :) ) and I´ll really have to work to keep everything warm and cozy for little Mina and me. 

 

I´ll keep you updated, don´t you think these bottles are really a bit like a fingerfeeder? They are supposed to be, but maybe somebody is falling for the marketing here ;)

 

Thanks for the link!


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#15 of 55 Old 12-09-2011, 06:16 AM
 
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That's so great she gained! That's two ounces in two days, right? Five to seven ounces a week is what you'd expect so it sounds like you're on track.
If so, I wouldn't even worry about the bottles. Just nurse, nurse, nurse. You can use it as an excuse to go rest in your bedroom to get away from the ILs and the stupid laptop eyesroll.gif

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#16 of 55 Old 12-28-2011, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi there, it´s us again ;)

we are still struggling with weight gain. She is now 3500 g, which is a gain of around three ounces the last week, midwife is again suggesting formula, I don´t want to give it, but I don´t want to starve DD2 as well ... 

 

DD2 is feeding every 2 - 3hours, is spitting up nearly after every feed, but not much. Is quite gassy, a bit fussy at times, but not too bad. She does not have regular bowel movements, one every 4 - 6 days (but than a lot) She is four weeks old by now. And I feel that she looks skinnier than she used to, but that might be my imagination. 

 

My plan for now is to pump breastmilk to supplement once at night. I don´t really see a point in giving her formula, she is clearly getting milk, she is spitting it up! (am I wrong here?) 

 

Any suggestions?


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#17 of 55 Old 12-28-2011, 09:13 AM
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Have you talked to your doc about reflux?  It's the first thing I think of when I hear that a baby is spitting up a lot.  

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#18 of 55 Old 12-28-2011, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The reflux would not really mean a lot anyway. people do not really treat babies for reflux here (germany) unless proven by a ph-study. otherwise you are just advised to have a bit elevated (have her in a sling anyway) and thicken her feeds,which is not really possible in a breastfed baby.

 

We have an appointment next week, anyway.


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#19 of 55 Old 12-28-2011, 05:38 PM
 
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Three ounces a week is low but it's great that she IS gaining - you just need to bump it up. How has her weight gain been generally since you last posted? She's a bit young to be stooling so infrequently so it could be a sign she needs more milk.
I would pump after as many feeds as you can manage (especially in the middle of the night and early morning when prolactin levels are highest) with a good double-electric and feed her whatever you pump with one of the alternative feeding methods in that link I posted. Is it possible in Germany to get a prescription for domperidone? That might help you boost supply.
If you can't get her gaining appropriately (five to eight ounces a week) I would agree with your midwife that supplementation with donor milk or formula would be necessary.

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#20 of 55 Old 12-30-2011, 09:07 PM
 
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Can you describe your nursing sessions? How long, how many sides, hearing swallowing for how long, feeling letdown (not required but helpful), milk dribbling out, spraying if baby pulls off, etc? How much are you getting when you pump? (not equivalent to nursing but helpful to know). Are your breasts full right before nursing again?

 

You said you don't think she's tongue-tied (and certainly may not be) but have you looked intentionally for that, esp when she cries? Again, she may not be, but babies who are tongue tied can take in a lot of air and get gassy and spit up from a poor latch.

 

She may seem skinnier bc she is likely growing longer but not keeping up with chubbiness...not necessarily that she's losing weight. But, since I have a low weight baby, I *know* when she's grown from one week to the next and when she hasn't just by holding her.

 

Reduce acidic foods in your diet like OJ, chocolate, tomatoes, sausage. Can alleviate reflux for her.

 

Lack of weight loss is very good, and you're on the right track. It's so wonderful when we've seen that our babies are growing.


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#21 of 55 Old 12-31-2011, 02:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi, 

she is bf quite shortly, like 5 - 15 min before she fells asleep. i do feel the letdown (quite uncomfortable actually), i am leaking quite a lot esp at night. Milk is spraying :) 

I pump around two ounces per day, but i only pump after feeding her and not at night Sheepish.gif I feed the bm as the last feeding after bf her (how come actually that she takes it just after a feeding?) 

 

I started the dom two days ago. and i spend a lot of time holding and bf. 

 

and SHE GAINED! she gained 100 g since tuesday joy.gif

 

@cookamh: no chocolate? honestly? i live on chocolate at the moment...do i honestly have to stop that? praying.gif


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#22 of 55 Old 12-31-2011, 07:20 AM
 
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Reduce acidic foods in your diet like OJ, chocolate, tomatoes, sausage. Can alleviate reflux for her.

I don't see how that could work. Breastmilk is made from what's in mom's blood - not her stomach. The exception is proteins like milk and egg that can turn up in milk.
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Hi, 
she is bf quite shortly, like 5 - 15 min before she fells asleep. i do feel the letdown (quite uncomfortable actually), i am leaking quite a lot esp at night. Milk is spraying smile.gif 
I pump around two ounces per day, but i only pump after feeding her and not at night Sheepish.gif  I feed the bm as the last feeding after bf her (how come actually that she takes it just after a feeding?) 

I started the dom two days ago. and i spend a lot of time holding and bf. 

and SHE GAINED! she gained 100 g since tuesday joy.gif

That's great that she's gaining! It's great that you started the dom and you can boost the amount of milk she gets without pumping by doing breast compressions and switch nursing to keep her awake and get more letdowns. Typical weight gain for a BF newborn in metric units is here: http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/growth/weight-gain-metric.html


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#23 of 55 Old 01-03-2012, 10:42 PM
 
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It worked in 24 hours for us. I cut it out completely for about a week then could have those things periodically just fine.  Just speaking from our experience.
 

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Quote:
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Reduce acidic foods in your diet like OJ, chocolate, tomatoes, sausage. Can alleviate reflux for her.

I don't see how that could work. Breastmilk is made from what's in mom's blood - not her stomach. The exception is proteins like milk and egg that can turn up in milk.


 

 


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#24 of 55 Old 01-13-2012, 10:21 PM
 
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How's it going?


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#25 of 55 Old 01-16-2012, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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didn't gain in the last two weeks :( still holding on, she is bf fine, but not gaining. 

 

otherwise she appears to be just fine, smiling, sleeping as long as i hold her, having plenty of wet diapers ... we will see the doctor wednesday... 


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#26 of 55 Old 01-19-2012, 02:01 PM
 
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Quote:
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I pump around two ounces per day, but i only pump after feeding her and not at night Sheepish.gif I feed the bm as the last feeding after bf her (how come actually that she takes it just after a feeding?) 

 

 

This was going to be my suggestion. When my DS was born he was long and weighed a good amount but was skinny. He lost a lot of weight after birth, too, so when my milk came in I pumped right after feeding him (every time) and immediately gave that to him with a syringe. It did the trick and he gained beautifully after that. 

I wonder if something that might enrich your milk would be beneficial. I know there are herbs that can increase supply, I wonder if there's something that could make your milk more fatty, like alfalfa (that works for livestock, don't know about humans). 

I hope you find some answers! Are you talking with a lactation consultant or LLL?

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#27 of 55 Old 01-19-2012, 02:18 PM
 
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OK, I just pulled out my copy of Nursing Mother's Companion and here's what it says about weight loss:

"An initial loss of 10 percent or more of a baby's birth weight suggests the baby is underfed."

Here are the guidelines for newborn breastfeeding it gives (the ones that apply)

"Your baby is probably getting enough milk if-

...

Your baby is nursing at least eight times in a 24-hour period.

If your baby is not nursing enough you may have to wake her for feedings.

 

Your baby is nursing 10 to 45 minutes at each feeding and seems content after feedings.

 

Your baby has several periods of swallowing during each feeding.

 

Your breasts feel softer or lighter after the baby has nursed.

 

Your baby is having bowel movements ever day, and by the fifth day they have turned yellow.

 

Your baby is wetting more diapers by the fifth day after birth." (In a later chapter is says that during the first two months 8 or more wet diapers a day are a sign that baby is getting enough milk)

 

There is a long section of treatment measures for underfeeding. I would be happy to send you an email with that info if you want it. It includes estimating your supply, checking your baby's milk requirement, how to stimulate more milk and what to do if that all fails. 

Send me a PM with your email address if you'd like that info.

I hope you can find something that works!

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#28 of 55 Old 01-19-2012, 04:05 PM
 
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How are you doing? What did the doctor say?

Megan, loving her sweet rainbow1284.gif boys, born Aug. 2008 and Feb. 2011, and their sister, born still March 2007 candle.gif
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#29 of 55 Old 01-20-2012, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi,

sorry for my sluggish responses, I am in a different room-time-continuum than everybody else :) It is still tuesday in my week, it appears to be friday in your world orngbiggrin.gif

 

My doctor does not think that it is a milk supply problem. She is nursing fine, sleeping long hours at night, nursing every two to three hours otherwise, my breasts are bursting after about 4 hours (if I carry her all the times she can oversleep) and they start leaking ... I am leaking all the time anyway, I know women who call that oversupply ... I don´t actually know if leaking and bursting feeling and this things are actually a sign of good supply. I think I could fill a whole bottle of milk with the let-down-reflex-milk from the non-nursing side - I am using half a package of breast pads every day, at least two every feeding ... (I am going to sew a couple as soon as this time problem get right again - by than she will probably eat burgers ... :) )

 

Little one is nursing just fine, just not really gaining weight. We went to a cardiologist today to rule out structural problems with the heart, and her ductus botalli appears to have closed up just recently, maybe that is a reason for the sluggish weight gain, but I totally don´t know.

We have another appointment with our ped next week, but the ped does not see a reason to offer formula, since it is less calory dense and in his opinion not making any difference. I mean, I think you can kind of "overfeed" them much more easily, which is probably totally not possible with breastfeeding.

He thinks she is still within the normal range, so no reason to panic (just yet ;) ) 

 

I am still wondering about cow milks intolerance, she still has signs of reflux and is pretty gassy. The crying is less now, though.

I´ll keep you updated!


Trin with DH , DD(7)  and DS(5) ,  DD(2) ,
I am not regularly online at the moment due to the above ...
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#30 of 55 Old 01-20-2012, 01:21 PM
 
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I have to disagree with your doctor: a newborn not gaining for two weeks - unless they were ill - is not within the range of normal.
The bottom line is that she's either not getting enough to eat - either because of low supply or a problem transferring milk, which will eventually result in low supply - or she can't make use of the milk she is getting because of some medical condition, which would be rare.
Breast milk is 22 calories an ounce. Formula has 20 calories.
But there's no need to use formula. If your supply is so good, you can pump (or even just catch the letdown) and supplement with the pumped milk.
I would suggest seeing an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant who can do an assessment for a tongue tie and rent you a specialized scale so you can do 24 hours of test feeds to figure out how much she's actually getting at the breast.

Megan, loving her sweet rainbow1284.gif boys, born Aug. 2008 and Feb. 2011, and their sister, born still March 2007 candle.gif
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