Is it appropriate for a teacher to breastfeed while at school? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 07-21-2014, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by MichelleZB View Post
Wow. Public breastfeeding is sexual harassment towards minors? Hashtag, you are now being ridiculous.

What kind of reception did you expect to get making these sorts of statements, especially on a forum like this? I suppose since, in your circles, people generally agree with you, you are shocked that not everyone feels the same way as you do about breastfeeding. Luckily for us moms, there are now laws that mostly protect us from harmful opinions like yours, or our lives and our ability to work and rear our children would be very impeded.

As for my last post, of course I was joking. What I was trying to point out was that the objections you have expressed here on this thread are very unlikely to have much traction with a university Dean. However, not all universities or states are the same, so I suppose you could try your luck. I would urge you, however, to blow it off. Don't make a hard-working woman and her newborn infant's lives more difficult--why would you want to?
I was thinking it could be sexual harassment because breasts are inherently sexual organs, so if they are exposed to minors, then that could qualify as sexual harassment.

I guess I didn't necessarily expect to get a positive reception, but I was hoping I would at least be pointed in the direction of actual state laws instead of empty drivel about how it is a fundamental right or something. Don't I also have a fundamental right to achieve as much as possible in a harassment-free environment as a student?

I don't want to make a newborn infant's life more difficult, but I would like to see the school implement some sort of policy to prevent future disasters like this. My school claims it is open to many cultures and students of many backgrounds. And, as I have said, many people other than myself took personal offense to my professor's open breastfeeding. I love my school, but what if news of this gets out and future students are discouraged from enrolling and choose other schools? I don't want this incident to have negative repercussions for myself in the short term or for future generations of students in the long term.

Frankly, I also think the classroom is an inappropriate forum for a feminist professor to advance her agenda and make a point about breastfeeding. If she feels so strongly about it, she should consider writing articles and taking interviews, not using us as pawns.

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Old 07-21-2014, 05:20 PM
 
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There is a policy that would prevent "future disasters" like babies in class: backup childcare. Your university could invest in its employees and students by offering a high quality home- or center-based backup childcare option to employees. These programs are too expensive for individual families to implement for themselves, but they are economically feasible for large employers, like colleges and universities. If your professor had been able to call a sitter to her house, or drop her baby off at a licensed child care facility for a few hours, she probably wouldn't have been nursing a baby while cold-calling students.

My husband worked for a few years for an employer who provided a backup childcare center through Bright Horizons. It was amazing. We never had to worry about snow, or sitters getting ill, or odd little daycare holidays. There was always a safe place to bring the children, and the kids loved it.

I also know of some local services that will send sitters to homes (which is vital if a child is unwell), but the individual subscription fees are huge. They make more sense as employee benefits.

By the way, the laws you need to think about here are anti-discrimination statutes, like the ADA, and Title IX.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by HashtagBB View Post
I was thinking it could be sexual harassment because breasts are inherently sexual organs, so if they are exposed to minors, then that could qualify as sexual harassment.
It doesn't.

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I guess I didn't necessarily expect to get a positive reception, but I was hoping I would at least be pointed in the direction of actual state laws instead of empty drivel about how it is a fundamental right or something. Don't I also have a fundamental right to achieve as much as possible in a harassment-free environment as a student?
Yes, you do, but somebody breastfeeding in the same room as you is not considered harassment and could not be legally proved to be harassment in any state.

As for actual state laws, I said in an earlier post that you should say what state or province you were from and we could tell you the law! But here's a pretty good summary of state laws. Forty-six states have laws that allow women to breastfeed in any public or private location. Breastfeeding is explicitly exempt from public indecency laws in more than half of the states.

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I don't want to make a newborn infant's life more difficult, but I would like to see the school implement some sort of policy to prevent future disasters like this. My school claims it is open to many cultures and students of many backgrounds. And, as I have said, many people other than myself took personal offense to my professor's open breastfeeding. I love my school, but what if news of this gets out and future students are discouraged from enrolling and choose other schools. I don't want this incident to have negative repercussions for myself in the short term or for future generations of students in the long term.
This was not a disaster, and nothing in the world protects you from being offended by normal things people have a right to do.

I'm offended by most pop music, by people who have cash bars at their weddings, and by people who wear clip-on bow ties as opposed to tie-up bow ties, the only real kind of bow tie. Just because I am offended by those things, doesn't give me any legal power to stop those things happening around me, even in a class.

Your university likely has a policy in place for these types of situations--and the policy likely protects your teacher from being harassed by you, not you from being exposed to her. If it does not have a policy to protect her, it will in the next few years.

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Frankly, I also think the classroom is an inappropriate forum for a feminist professor to advance her agenda and make a point about breastfeeding. If she feels so strongly about it, she should consider writing articles and taking interviews, not using us as pawns.
Her motives for doing something she has a perfect right to do is not your concern. Whether she was doing it to feed her baby, or to prove a point, or both, won't matter.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It doesn't.



Yes, you do, but somebody breastfeeding in the same room as you is not considered harassment and could not be legally proved to be harassment in any state.

As for actual state laws, I said in an earlier post that you should say what state or province you were from and we could tell you the law! But here's a pretty good summary of state laws. Forty-six states have laws that allow women to breastfeed in any public or private location. Breastfeeding is explicitly exempt from public indecency laws in more than half of the states.



This was not a disaster, and nothing in the world protects you from being offended by normal things people have a right to do.

I'm offended by most pop music, by people who have cash bars at their weddings, and by people who wear clip-on bow ties as opposed to tie-up bow ties, the only real kind of bow tie. Just because I am offended by those things, doesn't give me any legal power to stop those things happening around me, even in a class.

Your university likely has a policy in place for these types of situations--and the policy likely protects your teacher from being harassed by you, not you from being exposed to her. If it does not have a policy to protect her, it will in the next few years.



Her motives for doing something she has a perfect right to do is not your concern. Whether she was doing it to feed her baby, or to prove a point, or both, won't matter.
I go to school in New York, if that makes a difference.

I really don't think your "pop music" or "bow tie" examples are analogous because no one is forcing you to stay in those environments. This is different because it's essentially false imprisonment, as I've proved earlier, and I am faced with a Sophie's choice: either leave the classroom and risk lowering my GPA (thus ruining my future) or remain in an environment that makes me uncomfortable and even offended.

I don't see why you think I am harassing my teacher. I have yet to speak with her or with the dean, which is why I came here for advice first. However, I am disappointed to hear that I have no protection from being exposed to her on the grounds of indecent exposure or sexual harassment; I suppose my only avenue left is false imprisonment at this time.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am also curious as to why you think my university will implement a new policy to protect her in the next few years. Are we entering a more "pro-public-breastfeeding" phase now? I find that somewhat perplexing, given that it is violative of certain cultural norms and perhaps even offensive in situations like the classroom.

Maybe it doesn't matter to you whether or not she was trying to push her feminist agenda on us and others, but it certainly matters to me. I pay tuition to attend a university where the professors conduct themselves in a professional manner and pride themselves in objectivity. She has no right to shove her twisted ideology down my throat, and I feel like I am being used so she can accomplish her goals. That's not right.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:32 PM
 
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I agree with the PPs. And, speaking of multiculturalism, I don't think "breasts are sexual" is nearly as universal as you think. I know that for people (especially young people) in the US that breasts are super sexualized but that isn't the case for everywhere or for everyone. And, even if it were for a time in life it is often not the case for families with breastfeeding babies. Breasts take on a whole 'nother meaning and significance. This is where experience comes in. I know that the obvious thing here is that this professor is making a point by breastfeeding. That may be true but she may have normalized breastfeeding (like many of us do) to the point where this just doesn't seem like a big deal.

P.s. also look into American University breastfeeding professor for a similar story. You will see that your stronger case is in your teacher bringing her child to class with her in the first place. Your school may go that route, as AU did. Or they may choose to support your teacher and place the responsibility for not being so distracted by breasts on you (where I do think it belongs).

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Old 07-21-2014, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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There is a policy that would prevent "future disasters" like babies in class: backup childcare. Your university could invest in its employees and students by offering a high quality home- or center-based backup childcare option to employees. These programs are too expensive for individual families to implement for themselves, but they are economically feasible for large employers, like colleges and universities. If your professor had been able to call a sitter to her house, or drop her baby off at a licensed child care facility for a few hours, she probably wouldn't have been nursing a baby while cold-calling students.

My husband worked for a few years for an employer who provided a backup childcare center through Bright Horizons. It was amazing. We never had to worry about snow, or sitters getting ill, or odd little daycare holidays. There was always a safe place to bring the children, and the kids loved it.

I also know of some local services that will send sitters to homes (which is vital if a child is unwell), but the individual subscription fees are huge. They make more sense as employee benefits.

By the way, the laws you need to think about here are anti-discrimination statutes, like the ADA, and Title IX.
I would be in favor of backup childcare to avert future disasters like the one I recently experienced, but I wonder how that would affect tuition? We already pay a lot for the privilege to attend school, and I certainly wouldn't want to be on the hook for having to pay even more money.

What does Title IX and the Anti-Discrimination Act have to do with all of this? I don't find it discriminatory to tell my professor that she should exercise better judgment and abstain from breastfeeding in a large lecture class.
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I agree with the PPs. And, speaking of multiculturalism, I don't think "breasts are sexual" is nearly as universal as you think. I know that for people (especially young people) in the US that breasts are super sexualized but that isn't the case for everywhere or for everyone. And, even if it were for a time in life it is often not the case for families with breastfeeding babies. Breasts take on a whole 'nother meaning and significance. This is where experience comes in. I know that the obvious thing here is that this professor is making a point by breastfeeding. That may be true but she may have normalized breastfeeding (like many of us do) to the point where this just doesn't seem like a big deal.

P.s. also look into American University breastfeeding professor for a similar story. You will see that your stronger case is in your teacher bringing her child to class with her in the first place. Your school may go that route, as AU did. Or they may choose to support your teacher and place the responsibility for not being so distracted by breasts on you (where I do think it belongs).
I'm a little wary of normalizing breastfeeding because it seems like a slippery slope. I mean, where do we draw the line? I think it could also lead to nudity and increased exposure of female body parts, which doesn't seem like such a great thing for society. For example, in Hollywood during the 1960s, films pushed the envelope by having characters wake up in bed together the next morning (while skipping the sex scenes), and that was a big deal at the time. But if you look at movies these days, characters have hardcore sex on film. I think breastfeeding opens the door to a similar trajectory for nudity and sexualization.

I just read the American University breastfeeding story, and it looks very similar to my case. My hope is that my school would at least go the AU route, which seems like a just outcome.

Placing the onus on me to not be "so distracted by breasts" seems to miss the point. I've just explained at great length why my teacher's breasts greatly distracted me and severely impeding my learning, and you're essentially saying, "well, don't be distracted." That's not particularly helpful.

How about this solution: Don't breastfeed in class to prove a point.
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:13 PM
 
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New York Public Breastfeeding Law http://breastfeedinglaw.com/state-laws/new-york/

§ 79-e. Right to breast feed. Notwithstanding any other provision of
law, a mother may breast feed her baby in any location, public or
private, where the mother is otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of
whether or not the nipple of the mother’s breast is covered during or
incidental to the breast feeding.


—-
§ 245.01 Exposure of a person.
A person is guilty of exposure if he appears in a public place in such
a manner that the private or intimate parts of his body are unclothed or
exposed. For purposes of this section, the private or intimate parts of
a female person shall include that portion of the breast which is below
the top of the areola. This section shall not apply to the breastfeeding
of infants
or to any person entertaining or performing in a play,
exhibition, show or entertainment.

And if you want more here is a link to the Breastfeeding Bill of Rights from the NY Civil Liberties Union: http://www.nyclu.org/publications/yo...ights-new-york

Whether you like it or not she was well within her rights. This has been through the court systems before and there are no rights you have that supersede her rights to feed her child.

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Old 07-21-2014, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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New York Public Breastfeeding Law http://breastfeedinglaw.com/state-laws/new-york/

§ 79-e. Right to breast feed. Notwithstanding any other provision of
law, a mother may breast feed her baby in any location, public or
private, where the mother is otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of
whether or not the nipple of the mother’s breast is covered during or
incidental to the breast feeding.


—-
§ 245.01 Exposure of a person.
A person is guilty of exposure if he appears in a public place in such
a manner that the private or intimate parts of his body are unclothed or
exposed. For purposes of this section, the private or intimate parts of
a female person shall include that portion of the breast which is below
the top of the areola. This section shall not apply to the breastfeeding
of infants
or to any person entertaining or performing in a play,
exhibition, show or entertainment.

And if you want more here is a link to the Breastfeeding Bill of Rights from the NY Civil Liberties Union: http://www.nyclu.org/publications/yo...ights-new-york

Whether you like it or not she was well within her rights. This has been through the court systems before and there are no rights you have that supersede her rights to feed her child.
Since this is a New York PUBLIC breastfeeding law, would it be applicable to a private university setting?

I hope my school has a policy that supersedes this law. And if it doesn't, maybe one should be made because I can't imagine that I'm the only one who has a problem with it.

It doesn't seem fair to value her desire to breastfeed in class, when she could easily do it somewhere else or step outside of the classroom (or reschedule the lecture), over my right to learn and receive a quality education.
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:22 PM
 
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I guess I didn't necessarily expect to get a positive reception, but I was hoping I would at least be pointed in the direction of actual state laws instead of empty drivel about how it is a fundamental right or something.
The laws are generally worded that a mother is legally allowed to breastfeed wherever she and the baby are legally allowed to be. Other posters and I have posted this for you. I'm sure you can check your own state statutes as well as we can, possibly better since you may have access to a law library.

If the baby was *legally* allowed in the lecture hall, it was legal for the professor to breastfeed the baby. Having the child in class may possibly be against university policy, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't actually illegal.

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Old 07-21-2014, 06:27 PM
 
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You wanted advice and opinions on the issue and you got them. This is a natural family living forum that supports mothers and breastfeeding. The responses you received were the opinions of the members here. If you'd like someone to tell you your opinion was right it won't likely happen on this forum.

Now for your issue:

If the issue is the child in the classroom: Yes most would agree that there could be better ways of providing child care and tending to family needs instead of having a child in the classroom during the lecture time. * If this is your problem then the question asked should be on daycare, parents rights & obligations as employees, and labor law issues with families NOT breastfeeding.

If the issue is the child being fed in class: Not feeding the child is neglect. If there is no issue with the child being in class then there should be no issue with the child being fed.

If the issue is the breastfeeding: Too bad. If it's ok for the child to be in class and would be ok for the child to be given a bottle then there should be no issue with the mother breastfeeding.


Honestly there are a lot of things in life you'll have to deal with and be subjected to that you aren't going to like. This is a mild issue and is a good life experience for you to learn to cope with situations that you do not like. As for your choices, they may not have been great choices or choices that you liked but you DID have a choice: Stay in class and see her breastfeed OR leave class and risk the consequences of missing class. Not a great choice but that IS a choice. Unfortunately adults face choices like this on a regular basis. No one likes having to make choices like this but it is a fact of life and it's best that you figure that out sooner rather than later. When you get to the real world as an adult these choices become much more common for you.

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Old 07-21-2014, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The laws are generally worded that a mother is legally allowed to breastfeed wherever she and the baby are legally allowed to be. Other posters and I have posted this for you. I'm sure you can check your own state statutes as well as we can, possibly better since you may have access to a law library.

If the baby was *legally* allowed in the lecture hall, it was legal for the professor to breastfeed the baby. Having the child in class may possibly be against university policy, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't actually illegal.
It's hard for me to believe that breastfeeding would be legal *everywhere* in the State of New York. What about public schools, for instance? 12th graders and below are legal required (false imprisonment) to attend school and are underaged (sexual harassment), so if a teacher felt like breastfeeding in front of them (indecent exposure), she could?

I find that behavior to be highly unprofessional, especially since students have no ability to leave the classroom to avoid putting themselves in such an uncomfortable (and, depending on the student, potentially offensive) environment.
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:30 PM
 
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I think breastfeeding opens the door to a similar trajectory for nudity and sexualization.
I think the exact opposite is true. Seeing breasts as primarily sexual opens the door for objectification.

As for "don't be offended". I agree that this wasn't such a sympathetic thing to say but I do think there is a little too much responsibility being placed on others for your ability to pay attention. And, generally too much responsibility placed on women for men's ability to focus on other things.

In many American schools we have dress codes FOR WOMEN intended to help men pay better attention in school.

The reality is that it's a breast. Something that is meant to feed babies. In one way or another we are all victims of our own upbringing so I do not mean to belittle the significance of that but you are basically saying you are not able to concentrate if a women is using her breast the way nature intended. You are saying you need a woman to manage her body so that you can focus.

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Old 07-21-2014, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You wanted advice and opinions on the issue and you got them. This is a natural family living forum that supports mothers and breastfeeding. The responses you received were the opinions of the members here. If you'd like someone to tell you your opinion was right it won't likely happen on this forum.

Now for your issue:

If the issue is the child in the classroom: Yes most would agree that there could be better ways of providing child care and tending to family needs instead of having a child in the classroom during the lecture time. * If this is your problem then the question asked should be on daycare, parents rights & obligations as employees, and labor law issues with families NOT breastfeeding.

If the issue is the child being fed in class: Not feeding the child is neglect. If there is no issue with the child being in class then there should be no issue with the child being fed.

If the issue is the breastfeeding: Too bad. If it's ok for the child to be in class and would be ok for the child to be given a bottle then there should be no issue with the mother breastfeeding.


Honestly there are a lot of things in life you'll have to deal with and be subjected to that you aren't going to like. This is a mild issue and is a good life experience for you to learn to cope with situations that you do not like. As for your choices, they may not have been great choices or choices that you liked but you DID have a choice: Stay in class and see her breastfeed OR leave class and risk the consequences of missing class. Not a great choice but that IS a choice. Unfortunately adults face choices like this on a regular basis. No one likes having to make choices like this but it is a fact of life and it's best that you figure that out sooner rather than later. When you get to the real world as an adult these choices become much more common for you.
Not feeding the child might be neglect, but the child could be fed before or after class. Alternatively, someone else could have fed the child. Or the professor could have stepped outside to feed the child. Or canceled class. She had plenty of options and instead chose to impose her agenda on all of us to prove a point.

I think using a bottle is a MUCH better solution because we could have avoided the discomfort of being around an exposed breast altogether. I routinely see bottles but only very rarely see breasts, and I am definitely not accustomed to seeing the breasts of middle-aged women. It makes me very uncomfortable.

Others are responding that I will grow out of this phase as I become more mature. While that might be true, you should keep in my mind that I am in a university setting, where most students fall into my age group. So they will have similar maturity levels and similar discomforts.

Finally, what you have described is basically a Sophie's choice. No college student should be forced to endure a moral dilemma of that magnitude.
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:40 PM
 
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It's hard for me to believe that breastfeeding would be legal *everywhere* in the State of New York. What about public schools, for instance? 12th graders and below are legal required (false imprisonment) to attend school and are underaged (sexual harassment), so if a teacher felt like breastfeeding in front of them (indecent exposure), she could?
Yes, it's legal to breastfeed in a public school. I don't think public schoolteachers are allowed to bring their babies to class, but plenty of elementary school students have younger siblings and mothers can bring those siblings to school and breastfeed them if they so choose.

I think it's even legal for women to go topless in New York State, so it shouldn't matter if there's a baby attached to a legally exposed breast.

Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:41 PM
 
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I think it's even legal for women to go topless in New York State, so it shouldn't matter if there's a baby attached to a legally exposed breast.
Even a middle-aged breast?

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Old 07-21-2014, 06:43 PM
 
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Not feeding the child might be neglect, but the child could be fed before or after class. Alternatively, someone else could have fed the child. Or the professor could have stepped outside to feed the child. Or canceled class. She had plenty of options and instead chose to impose her agenda on all of us to prove a point.

I think using a bottle is a MUCH better solution because we could have avoided the discomfort of being around an exposed breast altogether. I routinely see bottles but only very rarely see breasts, and I am definitely not accustomed to seeing the breasts of middle-aged women. It makes me very uncomfortable.

Others are responding that I will grow out of this phase as I become more mature. While that might be true, you should keep in my mind that I am in a university setting, where most students fall into my age group. So they will have similar maturity levels and similar discomforts.

Finally, what you have described is basically a Sophie's choice. No college student should be forced to endure a moral dilemma of that magnitude.
While you might not like having to "endure the moral dilemma of that magnitude" it happens regularly in the real world of adult life. Sorry dear but you'll need to adjust to that and learning how to do so over an issue this minor is an easy break into it. There will be much harder choices to make in life with much less desirable options no matter which way you did it. That's life. Many college students make these choices on a regular basis. *The vast majority of university students are also over the age of 18 and legally adults. So like previously said ADULTS make these decisions. It's better for college students to adjust to being adults instead of continuing to behave like children.

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Old 07-21-2014, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think the exact opposite is true. Seeing breasts as primarily sexual opens the door for objectification.

As for "don't be offended". I agree that this wasn't such a sympathetic thing to say but I do think there is a little too much responsibility being placed on others for your ability to pay attention. And, generally too much responsibility placed on women for men's ability to focus on other things.

In many American schools we have dress codes FOR WOMEN intended to help men pay better attention in school.

The reality is that it's a breast. Something that is meant to feed babies. In one way or another we are all victims of our own upbringing so I do not mean to belittle the significance of that but you are basically saying you are not able to concentrate if a women is using her breast the way nature intended. You are saying you need a woman to manage her body so that you can focus.
I actually found the opposite to be true regarding dress codes. In my high school, we had a formal dress code. While males wore jacket, shirt, and tie, my female classmates would often get away with short skirts and t-shirts (sometimes even tank tops!). I would be remiss to say that it wasn't slightly distracting (male hormones), but at the same time, I very much value my education and think I could have paid attention regardless of whether the girls where wearing turtlenecks or wifebeaters.

The reality is that we are all expected to dress conservatively to some degree or another. If not, we would be a colony of nudists. I am not trying to champion men's rights or anything along those lines, and I do not think it is unreasonable to kindly request that my professor take care of her business outside of the classroom. I don't see it as making her cater to the request of a sexist male, either, because as I said, many of my female classmates are in agreement with what I am saying.

My teacher's responsibility is to teach and impart knowledge upon all of us. If there is something getting in the way of that -- whether it is dim lighting, a fire in the classroom, or a bare breast being exposed through breastfeeding -- then I think I should be permitted to let the school know. And to ensure that the professor takes appropriate measures to rectify the situation. I have a duty to myself and to my colleagues. Otherwise, she is not fulfilling her vocational obligations.
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:46 PM
 
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Sincerely, I think you have a much stronger argument that the BABY was distracting, not the middle-aged breast.

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Old 07-21-2014, 06:46 PM
 
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I really don't think your "pop music" or "bow tie" examples are analogous because no one is forcing you to stay in those environments. This is different because it's essentially false imprisonment, as I've proved earlier, and I am faced with a Sophie's choice: either leave the classroom and risk lowering my GPA (thus ruining my future) or remain in an environment that makes me uncomfortable and even offended...

...However, I am disappointed to hear that I have no protection from being exposed to her on the grounds of indecent exposure or sexual harassment; I suppose my only avenue left is false imprisonment at this time.
You are not protected from being "exposed to her" because you don't need protection. Nobody does, because seeing a breastfeeding mother is harmless. The fact that you don't like it doesn't really matter; as I said, lots of people don't like lots of things they don't need protection from.

You're a long way from proving false imprisonment with that argument. You have argued that you are trapped against your will in a class--not physically trapped, but coerced by the university to watch disgusting acts because if you didn't, it would materially threaten your future career. But a university's attendance policies do not constitute coercion.

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Are we entering a more "pro-public-breastfeeding" phase now? I find that somewhat perplexing, given that it is violative of certain cultural norms and perhaps even offensive in situations like the classroom.
Certainly we are! Check those state laws. You will not find them to be on your side.

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Maybe it doesn't matter to you whether or not she was trying to push her feminist agenda on us and others, but it certainly matters to me. I pay tuition to attend a university where the professors conduct themselves in a professional manner and pride themselves in objectivity. She has no right to shove her twisted ideology down my throat, and I feel like I am being used so she can accomplish her goals. That's not right.
In a university setting, you are protected against violence and harassment, but you are not protected against seeing or hearing things that may disturb you because they happen to run contrary to your values. You have paid for a product (the classes), but if the classes are not to your liking, you are free to stop buying them in the future. By instituting inclusionary workplace practices (if indeed they have done this), your university is not demonstratively disrupting your reasonable enjoyment of their products.

It's not their fault you think your teacher is "twisted" for parenting in front of you. That's kind of your deal. Apparently you don't like her entire worldview (because she espouses feminism, and that is twisted, according to you), but you are being very entitled indeed if you expect to go to university and have every teacher agree with your viewpoint exactly and tell you only opinions you already hold. You actually attend university for the opposite reason--to be exposed to a broader world and a variety of viewpoints.
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:46 PM
 
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No college student should be forced to endure a moral dilemma of that magnitude.
Wait. You are saying that you may have been forced to walk out of a college class in protest to stand up for a cause that you care deeply about? In COLLEGE? The horror!

Do it - walk out. Start a movement...stand up to this injustice.

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Yes, it's legal to breastfeed in a public school. I don't think public schoolteachers are allowed to bring their babies to class, but plenty of elementary school students have younger siblings and mothers can bring those siblings to school and breastfeed them if they so choose.

I think it's even legal for women to go topless in New York State, so it shouldn't matter if there's a baby attached to a legally exposed breast.
I have never seen a topless woman in New York, so I would be very surprised if that were true. Even if that were the case, I think there's a difference between walking around with legally exposed breasts in public and having a baby attached to those breasts in a location where young, impressionable individuals are forcibly detained.
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Wait. You are saying that you may have been forced to walk out of a college class in protest to stand up for a cause that you care deeply about? In COLLEGE? The horror!

Do it - walk out. Start a movement...stand up to this injustice.
This isn't the 1970s anymore… I can't just walk outside of class and stage a rebellion like some sort of savage.
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sincerely, I think you have a much stronger argument that the BABY was distracting, not the middle-aged breast.
People of various cultures are offended by sexual organs, not by babies, which are natural. We are accustomed to seeing babies all around us, but there is a reason we cover up breasts and blur them out on tv and black them out in magazines.

As I said, I was raised in a conservative household where humility and decency were highly desirable qualities.
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:52 PM
 
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I have never seen a topless woman in New York, so I would be very surprised if that were true. Even if that were the case, I think there's a difference between walking around with legally exposed breasts in public and having a baby attached to those breasts in a location where young, impressionable individuals are forcibly detained.
You were not forcibly detained. A somewhat weak argument could be made that you were *coerced* into remaining in the lecture hall, but you were clearly not forced. I'm on your side that the baby shouldn't have been there and therefore this shouldn't have been an issue, but your arguments are extreme and therefore easily dismissed.

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Old 07-21-2014, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You are not protected from being "exposed to her" because you don't need protection. Nobody does, because seeing a breastfeeding mother is harmless. The fact that you don't like it doesn't really matter; as I said, lots of people don't like lots of things they don't need protection from.

You're a long way from proving false imprisonment with that argument. You have argued that you are trapped against your will in a class--not physically trapped, but coerced by the university to watch disgusting acts because if you didn't, it would materially threaten your future career. But a university's attendance policies do not constitute coercion.



Certainly we are! Check those state laws. You will not find them to be on your side.



In a university setting, you are protected against violence and harassment, but you are not protected against seeing or hearing things that may disturb you because they happen to run contrary to your values. You have paid for a product (the classes), but if the classes are not to your liking, you are free to stop buying them in the future. By instituting inclusionary workplace practices (if indeed they have done this), your university is not demonstratively disrupting your reasonable enjoyment of their products.

It's not their fault you think your teacher is "twisted" for parenting in front of you. That's kind of your deal. Apparently you don't like her entire worldview (because she espouses feminism, and that is twisted, according to you), but you are being very entitled indeed if you expect to go to university and have every teacher agree with your viewpoint exactly and tell you only opinions you already hold. You actually attend university for the opposite reason--to be exposed to a broader world and a variety of viewpoints.
I think I do need protection from such exposure. If that weren't the case, then why are there ratings on movies? As the mother of young children, you probably don't let your kids watch X-rated films, right? My parents were very strict about PG13 and rated R films for that exact reason.

You say I am free to stop buying the product (classes) in the future, but this isn't a choice wholly of my own volition. A college degree is a barrier to entry for many jobs these days (in many cases, it's even a master's degree or a PhD). Without that diploma, I wouldn't be able to accomplish my goals.

There are certain norms of decency we should expect our professors to abide by. For instance, I wouldn't want my teacher to use expletives in class. While dropping an f-bomb wouldn't be damaging to my edification in a strict sense, it would be damaging to the overall quality and repute of instruction at the university. I think the exposure of bare breasts is a similar issue.

I am not asking every professor to agree with what I have to say. I just think that this willfully political act materially affects my ability to thrive as a student. That's a problem.
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Old 07-21-2014, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You were not forcibly detained. A somewhat weak argument could be made that you were *coerced* into remaining in the lecture hall, but you were clearly not forced. I'm on your side that the baby shouldn't have been there and therefore this shouldn't have been an issue, but your arguments are extreme and therefore easily dismissed.
What if I'm not talking about a college anymore? Public school students are *forced* to attend school until the age of 18. They shouldn't be subject to such extreme breastfeeding behavior if they find it offensive to their sensibilities.
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Old 07-21-2014, 07:02 PM
 
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It's hard for me to believe that breastfeeding would be legal *everywhere* in the State of New York. What about public schools, for instance? 12th graders and below are legal required (false imprisonment) to attend school and are underaged (sexual harassment), so if a teacher felt like breastfeeding in front of them (indecent exposure), she could?

I find that behavior to be highly unprofessional, especially since students have no ability to leave the classroom to avoid putting themselves in such an uncomfortable (and, depending on the student, potentially offensive) environment.
Yes, believe it! "N.Y. Penal Law § 245.01 et seq. excludes breastfeeding of infants from exposure offenses." A mother breastfeeding a child is exempt from being considered indecent exposure, and that includes exposure to minors. It is NOT considered sexually harassing a child if you show them a normal baby human eating the way they are intended to.

Actually, if you think about it, the baby itself is a minor and is exposed to breastfeeding repeatedly for years at fairly close range.

The fact that minors have to attend school or be otherwise educated is not false imprisonment. Some people argue that school detentions are, but that's sort of another thread.
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Old 07-21-2014, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, believe it! "N.Y. Penal Law § 245.01 et seq. excludes breastfeeding of infants from exposure offenses." A mother breastfeeding a child is exempt from being considered indecent exposure, and that includes exposure to minors. It is NOT considered sexually harassing a child if you show them a normal baby human eating the way they are intended to.

Actually, if you think about it, the baby itself is a minor and is exposed to breastfeeding repeatedly for years at fairly close range.

The fact that minors have to attend school or be otherwise educated is not false imprisonment. Some people argue that school detentions are, but that's sort of another thread.
I am not saying that minors attending school is false imprisonment. I am saying that minors being forced to watch their selfish teacher-mothers breastfeed constitutes false imprisonment because they lack a viable remedy. That would be the detention aspect in your scenario.

Also, yes, the baby itself is a minor and might be exposed to breastfeeding repeatedly -- but hopefully not for years because it will have teeth by then! However, the parent is the legal guardian/custodian of the child and may therefore benefit from the extra rights and privileges that accompany that role. For example, my professor can't legally send me to my room or ground me, while my parents can.
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