Is it appropriate for a teacher to breastfeed while at school? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 157 Old 07-21-2014, 07:55 PM
 
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Or ashamed. They are very conservative and wouldn't believe that this kind of practice was taking place in a school setting.
I believe they might be upset. They raised you and passed down their beliefs. I just don't believe that a woman who has breastfed would be embarrassed by seeing another woman doing the same.

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#122 of 157 Old 07-21-2014, 07:57 PM
 
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For the record, I'm not trying to take this to the United States Supreme Court. Yet.

So I don't get how this has anything to do with me being a bad lawyer or trying to win my "case." The laws of the State of New York aren't even applicable because this is a private university matter in a private setting, so the dean and school policies have jurisdiction.
Actually the law does apply because it covers the mother in any location, public or private, where she has a right to be. She has a right to be there and so does the baby unless there is a policy against it.

I doubt you'll ever try to challenge these laws in any court because you are going to do a lot of maturing before getting a law degree. When you are young and have no children complicated issues, such as parenting and nursing a child, seem very easy but you will discover that they aren't as you grow up and research these things for yourself.

As an aside: Being conservative has nothing to do with nursing in public. I was raised in very conservative churches, in one women weren't allowed to wear pants, but breastfeeding was still the norm and it wasn't considered immodest. As a mother who has had a child and nursed I think it sounds very immoral to sexualize nursing a child and I believe that is something you should talk with your pastor about to get some guidance.
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#123 of 157 Old 07-21-2014, 07:59 PM
 
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This may be news to you, but my family is very conservative. I don't see why you need to put down my culture and how I was raised. That's a huge problem I have with feminists: they like to impose their western hegemony on the rest of the world, with little regard for context, culture, or religion. It's truly appalling.
Earlier in the thread you mentioned that you valued your aunt's views because she traveled and had been to the Middle East. I've also traveled there and have tremendous respect for the people from that part of the world.

This is not about disrespect for your values.

This is about living in a multicultural world and you asking for your professor to adapt her behavior (which is fundamentally human) because of your values. It is you doing the imposing.
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#124 of 157 Old 07-21-2014, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Earlier in the thread you mentioned that you valued your aunt's views because she traveled and had been to the Middle East. I've also traveled there and have tremendous respect for the people from that part of the world.

This is not about disrespect for your values.

This is about living in a multicultural world and you asking for your professor to adapt her behavior (which is fundamentally human) because of your values. It is you doing the imposing.
Getting dressed and changing a diaper is also "fundamentally human," but I wouldn't expect my teacher to do either of those things in class (especially the nudity part). I'm not imposing anything on her by requesting that she exercise other options or make other plans, such as taking a break from lecture to breastfeed, postponing the class, getting it done before or after class, or having someone else look after the kid.

There's clearly a difference between breastfeeding at home, taking a child to class, and openly breastfeeding in class. Maybe if you weren't so biased and pro-breastfeeding you could see that.

It's like when feminists decry the practices of other countries without understanding that their are cultural differences. That's proliferating western hegemony.
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#125 of 157 Old 07-21-2014, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Actually the law does apply because it covers the mother in any location, public or private, where she has a right to be. She has a right to be there and so does the baby unless there is a policy against it.

I doubt you'll ever try to challenge these laws in any court because you are going to do a lot of maturing before getting a law degree. When you are young and have no children complicated issues, such as parenting and nursing a child, seem very easy but you will discover that they aren't as you grow up and research these things for yourself.

As an aside: Being conservative has nothing to do with nursing in public. I was raised in very conservative churches, in one women weren't allowed to wear pants, but breastfeeding was still the norm and it wasn't considered immodest. As a mother who has had a child and nursed I think it sounds very immoral to sexualize nursing a child and I believe that is something you should talk with your pastor about to get some guidance.
I definitely don't want to be immoral or commit sins over this situation. I think that breasts themselves are regarded as inherently sexual body parts, which is why they're blurred out on tv and in magazines.
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#126 of 157 Old 07-21-2014, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I believe they might be upset. They raised you and passed down their beliefs. I just don't believe that a woman who has breastfed would be embarrassed by seeing another woman doing the same.
Again, I think there's a key difference between breastfeeding in the privacy of one's home, which is what my parents did, and breastfeeding in public. But at least in public, people who are uncomfortable have the option of walking away. Breastfeeding in a college -- or even worse, a public school -- is a different story altogether because it is not conducive to a professional, classroom atmosphere. It is inappropriate, unprofessional, and offensive.

These negative qualities are compounded further when you have a raging feminist professor who will stop at nothing to shove her ideology down your throat, even if it comes at the expense of your comfort and college experience.
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#127 of 157 Old 07-21-2014, 08:23 PM
 
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Your use of the label feminist clearly shows a lack of understanding about the feminist movement. Traditionaly they are opposed to breastfeeding because it is an act that embraces being forced into the oppressive role of being a stay at home mother.

Even if your teacher is pushing feminist ideas, educating students in a way that makes them question their beliefs and come up with stronger reasons to follow them than "that's what mommy and daddy taught me" is part of what going to college is all about. It is your teachers job to teach you things that provoke thought and force you to research and defend your ideas. It's your university's job to offer teachers with a wide range of ideas to challenge you into being a well rounded adult capable of defending your beliefs in high level jobs that require critical thinking. If you can't accept that you need to rethink college and your career choices.
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#128 of 157 Old 07-21-2014, 08:25 PM
 
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Again, I think there's a key difference between breastfeeding in the privacy of one's home, which is what my parents did, and breastfeeding in public. But at least in public, people who are uncomfortable have the option of walking away. Breastfeeding in a college -- or even worse, a public school -- is a different story altogether because it is not conducive to a professional, classroom atmosphere. It is inappropriate, unprofessional, and offensive.

These negative qualities are compounded further when you have a raging feminist professor who will stop at nothing to shove her ideology down your throat, even if it comes at the expense of your comfort and college experience.
Okay see now you have made your point perfectly clear and we can understand better. I see it. I get it now. It would be perfectly okay for her to breastfeed at home as long as no one inside her home cared. It is just wrong for her to breastfeed in front of you because it is offensive to you. It is also wrong because her believing that breastfeeding is best for her baby and then deciding to breastfeed in front of you is forcing her ideals on you and causes you discomfort. You're absolutely right... that should never happen! You should never be uncomfortable, offended or confronted with someone else's values and opinions in life. Such horror!

I should also never have to be offended again. Things that will soon be illegal so that I am never again offended: sagging pants, formula feeding just to make others happy, rap music, disposable items (plates, cups, etc.), plastic bags...

I'm sure I'll come up with more. Let me adjust to the idea of never having to be offended again and I'll surely think of more awful, horrible things in life.
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#129 of 157 Old 07-21-2014, 08:40 PM
 
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I'm not imposing anything on her by requesting that she exercise other options or make other plans...
Yes, indeed, you are! You are requesting that she change what she is doing to line up with your values. You are the imposer. You are trying to get her to live her life according to your rules, just because you like your rules and you think everyone should follow them--after all, they come from your culture, and everyone should live according to your culture's rules or else they are OPPRESSING YOU AND YOUR HERITAGE.

Sorry, it doesn't work like that. You are not the victim of this teacher.
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#130 of 157 Old 07-21-2014, 08:40 PM
 
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I'm not imposing anything on her by requesting that she exercise other options or make other plans, such as taking a break from lecture to breastfeed, postponing the class, getting it done before or after class, or having someone else look after the kid.
Exactly. You would like your professor to exercise other options out of respect for your values. I understand you are focused on the power dynamic between your and your professor (grades, cost of classes, you contributing her her salary) but this is a common issue for nursing mothers - people deciding that their values and comfort for not having to see part of a breast is more important than her values about feeding and caring for her child.

The reality is that our values can and should really only guide us - they really can not be used to influence others.

You live in New York - that's like the melting pot of the melting pot. You are a conservative and should have every right to live your own life according to your values. Wear what you want, feed your kids how you want. Your teacher can do the same -- that's sort of the beauty of it all.

Like a few others, if this issue was about the professional choice to bring the kid to school, that's a whole other conversation but it's pretty clear that the main issue was the breasts and, seriously, if you are getting around campus I'm sure you've seen plenty - though in the case of cleavage, many men and women feel that those are breasts being used in the appropriate way.

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#131 of 157 Old 07-21-2014, 08:50 PM
 
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How is she protected by law? I'm pretty sure there's no law that says you can just openly show your breasts in a public space. That has to be indecent exposure or something. It's a shame that she's using her child like that to get attention. She could easily just use a bottle.
Ok, so I only got through the first page and then got bored, but A) you're a pretty poor law student if you don't know the BF laws, B) NIP is not an attention-seeking behavior, and C) no, she could not easily just use a bottle.

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Ok but even if it isn't indecent exposure, I can't find any law that supports it. And from googling, it looks like I'm not the only one who is uncomfortable around these kinds of situation.


Who knew mothers could be so insensitive to the feelings of others?
If you can't find the law, keep looking. Ask your teacher for help if you still can't find it.

Oh, and your feelings don't matter. Babies have to eat.

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What about if a professor brings her child to class and breastfeeds and basically forces all the students attending to stay and watch? That has to be like false imprisonment or something.
"That has to be like false imprisonment or something." Seriously?!
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#132 of 157 Old 07-21-2014, 09:07 PM
 
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I didn't know that since I'm not an expert in teething or Baby 101 generally.
That is evident.

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I just figured it would be very uncomfortable to breastfeed a child with teeth.
It is not.

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And there's definitely an age at which doing so is no longer appropriate.
... and I bet you think you're the most qualified person to come up with an appropriate cut off age, even though you just said two sentences ago that you know very little about babies and infant feeding!

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For example, you wouldn't want to breastfeed your son if he were 4 or 5 years old. People would give you funny looks!
It is not a good idea to decide whether to do something or not based on whether you will get funny looks.

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Btw, good job drinking wine while breastfeeding your child. You seem like a really responsible mother with your drunk baby.
It's obvious you feel attacked and are trying to take a cheap shot about my drinking to assuage your feelings, but your information is inaccurate. Drinking moderately while breastfeeding doesn't get the baby drunk. Just like you know very little about teething, you also know very little about breastfeeding.

I am both a responsible drinker and a responsible parent. Of course, if I weren't, it still wouldn't make you right about your teacher.
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#133 of 157 Old 07-21-2014, 09:55 PM
 
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To the OP: I'm sorry you are just now being exposed to something as normal and mundane as an infant eating. Most people have younger siblings or have been around families enough by the time they are in college to realize that there is nothing indecent about seeing a bit (or even a lot) of breast while a baby is eating.
If you really are a law student and uncomfortable about babies being fed, I highly recommend going to a local La Leche League meeting. You will learn about breast feeding laws and get a lot of practice becoming more comfortable with seeing babies eating. You will also learn how breast feeding is often very challenging and that moms and babies need all the support they can get.
I sincerely hope you will follow up on your research with a mind open in the ways of inquiry, not just looking for fuel to feed your point of view.
I'm very sorry you were uncomfortable. It is unfortunate that you took the viewpoint of assuming your teacher was trying to get attention. I bet you could ask her if this is the case.
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#134 of 157 Old 07-21-2014, 10:45 PM
 
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Oh wow, I'm still getting used to the new format and posted before I saw there are 5 pages in this thread!
Now I am alternating between ROTFLOL and wanting to give this student and his class mates a few educational lectures. I love the varied responses - our diversity makes this site awesome. Interesting how such a diverse group of moms can agree on one thing: breasts are not sexual when being used for feeding a baby.
@HashtagBB , I recommend re-reading One_Girl's posts.
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#135 of 157 Old 07-21-2014, 11:05 PM
 
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Lolz

I stopped by this thread at someone's recommendation. I want to thank you, Hashtag, for this hilarious thread. I haven't laughed so hard in weeks! Good trolling, would read again.

As an actual law student, I can assure you that your comments on the law are hilariously incoherent. For instance, if breasts are "inherently sexual," then mothers are sexually abusing their babies when they breastfeed. This is obviously not true — whether a particular act is sexual or not depends on the context. You'll find, if you do go to law school, that nearly everything is contextual and needs to be considered in the totality of the circumstances. Very rarely is anything inherently this or inherently that.

As for false imprisonment, as any introductory torts textbook can tell you, this situation does not even come close to satisfying the elements of false imprisonment. I would suggest you look things up before declaring them to be legal facts on the internet. Looking things up is a very good practice if you do intend to become a lawyer, because in the future you may be held liable if you give people incorrect legal advice and they rely on it to their detriment.

As for your assertion that state laws do not apply on private property, try committing murder in your basement and let us know how that defence works out for you.

PS: In law school you will cover very little international law, and quite a lot of "boring" domestic law. If this does not appeal to you, you may want to consider other career options.
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#136 of 157 Old 07-21-2014, 11:39 PM
 
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I stopped by this thread at someone's recommendation. I want to thank you, Hashtag, for this hilarious thread. I haven't laughed so hard in weeks! Good trolling, would read again.

As an actual law student, I can assure you that your comments on the law are hilariously incoherent. For instance, if breasts are "inherently sexual," then mothers are sexually abusing their babies when they breastfeed. This is obviously not true — whether a particular act is sexual or not depends on the context. You'll find, if you do go to law school, that nearly everything is contextual and needs to be considered in the totality of the circumstances. Very rarely is anything inherently this or inherently that.

As for false imprisonment, as any introductory torts textbook can tell you, this situation does not even come close to satisfying the elements of false imprisonment. I would suggest you look things up before declaring them to be legal facts on the internet. Looking things up is a very good practice if you do intend to become a lawyer, because in the future you may be held liable if you give people incorrect legal advice and they rely on it to their detriment.

As for your assertion that state laws do not apply on private property, try committing murder in your basement and let us know how that defence works out for you.

PS: In law school you will cover very little international law, and quite a lot of "boring" domestic law. If this does not appeal to you, you may want to consider other career options.

Beautiful post! Just beautiful!

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#137 of 157 Old 07-22-2014, 12:58 AM
 
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You know what, if you are in the same situation with your teacher you will definitely understand her. Yeah, it's not appropriate but you have to understand that the baby is hungry. Would you let your teacher feed her baby inside the class or you want a crying hungry baby in your classroom? I think it would be very annoying if you will hear/see a crying baby due to hungriness. It's not about your discomfort or your classmates discomfort, it's about the baby. Your teacher had no choice but to breastfeed in public.
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#138 of 157 Old 07-22-2014, 03:47 AM
 
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This may be news to you, but my family is very conservative. I don't see why you need to put down my culture and how I was raised. That's a huge problem I have with feminists: they like to impose their western hegemony on the rest of the world, with little regard for context, culture, or religion. It's truly appalling.

If I told my grandparents that I saw a middle-aged woman's "boob" in class, they would be mortified. And I believe the accepted vernacular is "breasts."
I doubt you have the slightest clue about your culture. My godson's mother is African, and he was breasfed until he was a preschooler. Most of my colleagues at work are Muslims, and although they are very modest, they wouldn't flinch at the sight of a mother feeding her child.
I myself am not American. I'm an immigrant.
So maybe you should mention to your grandpa that you saw a woman breastfeeding. He could teach you a thing or two about normalcy in HIS culture. And you won't panic so much when you have your first child. Or your first girlfriend, for that matter.

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#139 of 157 Old 07-22-2014, 07:27 AM
 
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as for your assertion that state laws do not apply on private property, try committing murder in your basement and let us know how that defence works out for you.
lol
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#140 of 157 Old 07-22-2014, 08:24 AM
 
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Heck no it's not appropriate for her to have to be there with a baby. Where is her paid maternity leave? That's something worth fighting for.
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#141 of 157 Old 07-22-2014, 03:12 PM
 
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Heck no it's not appropriate for her to have to be there with a baby. Where is her paid maternity leave? That's something worth fighting for.
It was likely a child care crisis.

OP, you could have gone out to the restroom and then grabbed a seat in the back. Or just left. In a lecture hall filled with hundreds of students, it's not likely that you would be missed.
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#142 of 157 Old 07-22-2014, 04:33 PM
 
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I haven't read ALL of the responses on here, but it seems like everyone echos what I myself was thinking, and what I would think you should EXPECT to hear on a natural mothering forum. Also, I don't necessarily think that anyone on here means to be hostile. I think they are trying to help you understand, because you obviously do not..

As a breastfeeding mother I can tell you that, sure, it *sounds* easy to just breastfeed somewhere else, or pack a bottle around. But from experience it's not. You have to pump, you have to store and carry milk with you. You have to go through a hassle to prepare the bottle when your hungry baby is waiting. And you have to throw out wasted milk, which is discouraging. And I actually HAVE hidden myself in a dressing room as a young mother to feed my baby, and felt more awkward than ever. It felt degrading and shaming, when I shouldn't be ashamed to feed my hungry baby. It not about boobs! It's about just feeding your baby. What is easy is having it right there at the breast. Ready to go, just the way your baby likes it. Or how about you turning your head or just reading a book for the 10-20 minutes it took her to feed her baby. How's that for easy?

Yes I probably would not have fed my baby in a classroom full of students watching, because I would be uncomfortable with thinking everyone was judging me. AS you all were judging her. SEEING another woman breastfeeding doesn't make me uncomfortable, it makes me feel relieved that I am not the only one out there. I think it's encouraging and wonderful, and I applaud that they are more brave than I am. Before becoming a mother I may have felt uncomfortable as you do, but I think I still would have said "good for her for not caring what I or anyone else think, and doing what's best for her child."

I am kind of wondering. Not that it's really relevant. But how much breast was she actually showing? Because even without a cover or cloth I can nurse so discretely that no one knows I am even doing it, and NO breast is shown. So if that's the case here, then the issue you and your classmates have isn't even indecent exposure. It's just you being uncomfortable with the idea of breastfeeding. And that's totally unfair to mothers everywhere.
As others have said; in the end, the law supports her, so if you are uncomfortable you need to get over it. Or maybe politely mention it to her, instead of going behind her back to the dean.

Oh and p.s. I am a very conservative, modest Christian. I don't even wear tank tops in public. But I have sense enough to know that breastfeeding does NOT count as immodesty. And I think it's perfectly appropriate and good to expose everyone of all ages and genders and "cultures" to breastfeeding. It would make the world a better place. And that's not exaggerating one bit.

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#143 of 157 Old 07-22-2014, 08:32 PM
 
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Just to clarify:

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Heck no it's not appropriate for her to HAVE TO be there with a baby. Where is her paid maternity leave? That's something worth fighting for.
Also I liked that backup child care plan!
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#144 of 157 Old 07-22-2014, 11:28 PM
 
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I fear we have lost our OP, but this is a great thread anyway! And this post is so beautiful that I think the last part needs to be repeated. Thanks for writing this so well!

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Oh and p.s. I am a very conservative, modest Christian. I don't even wear tank tops in public. But I have sense enough to know that breastfeeding does NOT count as immodesty. And I think it's perfectly appropriate and good to expose everyone of all ages and genders and "cultures" to breastfeeding. It would make the world a better place. And that's not exaggerating one bit.
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#145 of 157 Old 07-23-2014, 12:40 PM
 
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I think this post is a joke of some kind. I cant imagine a woman who has gone through the learning curve of learning to breastfeed her child, and all it entails when balancing work and mothering, to have such a blase opinion about a working woman breastfeeding her child in public. Whats to complain about?
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#146 of 157 Old 07-31-2014, 11:04 AM
 
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This seems like the author might be joking. No kidding you shouldn't breastfeed in traffic! Because it's dangerous, you might get run over, and you don't want other drivers to see your breasts like that in public when you're in the middle of the road.
I agree with you on breastfeeding during class with her being a teacher. She should've excused herself and went in the hallway or another room as to not be a distraction in class. I'm a Breastfeeding mom and I will bf in public but not in front of an audience. I cant feed my baby comfortably if I'm fighting off glares and whispers. But dont tell the dean. Resolve it with ger and if no change tgen u have a right to be uncomfortable but not sure it will work in your favor.
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#147 of 157 Old 07-31-2014, 06:17 PM
 
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When I was homeschooled, I was in a mock trial group and the woman who ran it would breastfeed her child while running the group. It was a non-issue and didn't make anyone uncomfortable.

The OP's biggest problem seems to be not having previously been exposed to breastfeeding, which is exactly why nursing in public should be allowed- because it's a natural act, there's nothing wrong with people of any age seeing it. It's something that should be a total non-issue, something that doesn't even warrant a second glance because it's such an every day occurance. A pre-law student should certainly have the maturity to handle watching a person feeding their child.

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#148 of 157 Old 08-01-2014, 07:32 AM
 
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I admit to at first being offended by the phrase "feminist shrew," but after reading this whole thread...yes this is one of the best threads I've ever seen on mdc and I hope it stays _exactly_ as it is. Lol.
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#149 of 157 Old 08-01-2014, 07:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by salr View Post
I admit to at first being offended by the phrase "feminist shrew," but after reading this whole thread...yes this is one of the best threads I've ever seen on mdc and I hope it stays _exactly_ as it is. Lol.
I LOVE that your post is #148 of 147.
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#150 of 157 Old 08-11-2014, 10:17 PM
 
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I've got to get something straight here : breast were made for nurturing, NOT sexual pleasure. If you were a breastfeeding mother, you would find out that the only reason God gave you those breasts was to feed children.

Now, I've been thinking about being a tour guide, then about being pregnant while being a guide, and breastfeeding while doing those tours... I see that it might not go as smoothly as I thought Luckily I'm not too self-conscious..!

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